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Wine and Gold
06-19-2008, 03:11 PM
We're heading into the first phase of the offseason restructuring of the Cavaliers ....but, be cognizant that this is just the first phase. The first round of moves are getting ready to be made, and these moves, for the Cavs, will be structural moves that will be based on draft issues being involved for the teams involved .... As I've stated, we had certai wants and needs that we needed to address this offseason ...I was pretty explicit in giving you the rundown on what accomplishments we are looking to achieve.

Anderson Varejao, as I said, would be an integral part of that first stage of restructuring, and that rumors would start circulating right about now that would very likely include him ...and thus today you see that rumor mill starting up.

What you'll need to be cogizant of is that every move that gets made is gatting made as a singualr piece, of many pieces that are going to be made in order to try and fill as many of our roster issues as we can, to the best of our ability, this offseason.

What I want to make sure of is that you keep the early moves in perspective ...and not judge the roster right after the 1st moves, as anything close to a finished product ...but, it more than anything will be a move that accompishes one of our goals, and also keeps our options open, or clarifies our options later on in the process this offseason. And as you know ...alot of that will have dollar signs attached .....dollar signs that Gilbert has made known he's ready and willing to take on.

1B4IGO
06-19-2008, 03:16 PM
I trust Ferry is way on top of every aspect of these trades. Just one question W&G, what do you think the time frame will be between each piece? You know like Ferry does this deal with GS for Wright. When would the next piece fall into place?

KU_216
06-19-2008, 03:16 PM
Thanks for the update, W&G. :D I have the same question as Flight, as well. How long in between moves do you think it will be? Also, Ferry has to be certain the other moves will fall into place, right?

bob2the2nd
06-19-2008, 03:16 PM
this says two things to me, first and foremost this scares me a whole heck of a lot. its almost like a "be prepared you might not like some of the stuff that is about to happen, but we hope in the long run it works out"

second it sounds like something is going to happen in the very near future.

TruBuckeye22
06-19-2008, 03:19 PM
well I don't know what you boys have in the works but it does sound like it will be an interesting summer. oh yeah in case you were wondering you have my full endorsement to get into the 2nd rd to take George Hill!!!

Green Lantern
06-19-2008, 03:20 PM
What you'll need to be cogizant of is that every move that gets made is gatting made as a singualr piece, of many pieces that are going to be made in order to try and fill as many of our roster issues as we can, to the best of our ability, this offseason.

Similar to what Savage is doing for the Browns..identify a area of need , then get the piece(s) to fill it.

KU_216
06-19-2008, 03:21 PM
this says two things to me, first and foremost this scares me a whole heck of a lot. its almost like a "be prepared you might not like some of the stuff that is about to happen, but we hope in the long run it works out"

second it sounds like something is going to happen in the very near future.

It sounds to me like two things. One, to not pass judgement right after the first trade, because more trades are likely. And two, that the as we add pieces, it will begin to make more and more sense. I will agree that it seems like something is going to happen soon, though.

Wine and Gold
06-19-2008, 03:24 PM
this says two things to me, first and foremost this scares me a whole heck of a lot. its almost like a "be prepared you might not like some of the stuff that is about to happen, but we hope in the long run it works out"

second it sounds like something is going to happen in the very near future.

well yeah ...that's what you need to look at ...if we lose AV and don't have what looks like a complete roster ...people freak and think we just exposed ourselves. We don't want to leave the 1st round of this draft, we want to add a young, multi-faceted big to our roster, and we would still like to add another young piece in the draft, preferably 1st round talent.

Then, Ferry needs to be comfortable with what he can get accomplished with our expiring contracts in later moves down the road ....if he's comfortable enough at the back end potential, then he can feel confident making the necassary early moves ....

This offseason won't be completed for months ...nothing gets done until the deadlines ....it's just part of the fabric of how deals get done ...they always go to the last second ...

ohbarrett
06-19-2008, 03:31 PM
it seems like the organization is interested in filling the holes instead of trying to find that legit #2/compliment to LeBron. Or perhaps that's what all of these moves will lead to by the start of next season?

B Mac
06-19-2008, 03:33 PM
This screams of "Look out!"

I'll trust Ferry because I know he has a plan, but I sure hope that trading two of our most desireable assets nets us what we really need.

Ryno
06-19-2008, 03:37 PM
Seems like it could be a dangerous game to play. I understand if we trade AV and don't get what we expected in return to not be too upset. But, what if something happens and Ferry can't get the other piece he was banking on. Regardless, I'm glad to hear that a plan has been formulated. We don't necessarily need to find one pure #2 type of player. I would feel just as comfortable if we get a couple of guys who can be significant role players. I still am skeptical about getting a "star." I would much rather pick up 2-3 guys who can start or be significant players off the bench and will definitely add some scoring while keeping our defense at a high level

Damage
06-19-2008, 03:41 PM
Couple of thoughts:
1. Out GM isn't stupid. Some are, Ferry isn't. He knows something needs to be done, and done asap.
2. That said, I have a feeling we're gonna make 2-3 moves prior to the season begins. This includes trading for a player(s) and moving up/back into the draft for a higher/another draft pick.
3. Ferry needs to capture some talent with our most viable assets. I would love BDiddy, but his injuries concern me. He's NEVER healthy. When it's all said and done, I have a feeling we'll grab Wright and Redd at some point and we'll come away with 2 draft picks this year.

Damage
06-19-2008, 03:42 PM
Seems like it could be a dangerous game to play. I understand if we trade AV and don't get what we expected in return to not be too upset. But, what if something happens and Ferry can't get the other piece he was banking on. Regardless, I'm glad to hear that a plan has been formulated. We don't necessarily need to find one pure #2 type of player. I would feel just as comfortable if we get a couple of guys who can be significant role players. I still am skeptical about getting a "star." I would much rather pick up 2-3 guys who can start or be significant players off the bench and will definitely add some scoring while keeping our defense at a high level

I'm pretty sure A is contigient on B. So Ferry wouldn't make trade A if B is not close to 100% complete

Ryno
06-19-2008, 03:46 PM
I'm pretty sure A is contigient on B. So Ferry wouldn't make trade A if B is not close to 100% complete

That's my view on it. But I interpreted W&G's comments to mean that we may have one piece completed and then go some time without hearing anything until another piece can be added later. If A is done and B is complete why not go ahead and make it official? It just seems like if we are going to go out and get one piece on draft day, and then wait another month or so to get the next piece, something could happen that could jeopardize that second deal. Did anyone else take W&G's comments this way or I am just misinterpreting them?

Joe Henderson
06-19-2008, 03:50 PM
okay, so it sounds like Ferry's getting ready to offload Andy for a pick and not much else...

and people will be calling for his head, of course

at least they won't accuse him of sitting on his thumbs :chuckles:

Green Lantern
06-19-2008, 03:52 PM
Thats how I took it..especially when he said one move might seem to leave us exposed..so I took it to mean first move is made ..and either a big or wing is aquired , but we're also open at either spot depending on who's shipped out..
So it might be a while before the weakened position is filled.

Fantomas
06-19-2008, 03:53 PM
As close as we were (or think we are), I am anxious to get the off-season going and whatever changes occur, so I can spend quality time at work reading this site.

Damage
06-19-2008, 03:58 PM
That's my view on it. But I interpreted W&G's comments to mean that we may have one piece completed and then go some time without hearing anything until another piece can be added later. If A is done and B is complete why not go ahead and make it official? It just seems like if we are going to go out and get one piece on draft day, and then wait another month or so to get the next piece, something could happen that could jeopardize that second deal. Did anyone else take W&G's comments this way or I am just misinterpreting them?

To add to your point, I think it's vital that we have our ENTIRE team from beginning to end, establish a core from the get go and not try to add pieces by the trade deadline unless it's nessecary. As we all witnessed, we had a very good team, it just took too long for them to gel. Too little to late. And that's why it's vital for t his to happen PRIOR to middle October

Kuiper
06-19-2008, 04:00 PM
That's my view on it. But I interpreted W&G's comments to mean that we may have one piece completed and then go some time without hearing anything until another piece can be added later. If A is done and B is complete why not go ahead and make it official? It just seems like if we are going to go out and get one piece on draft day, and then wait another month or so to get the next piece, something could happen that could jeopardize that second deal. Did anyone else take W&G's comments this way or I am just misinterpreting them?

I think what Wine and Gold is referring to when he mentions "deadlines" is probably the fact that certain players can't be traded before a date passes, either because they would be BYC players or they were just traded etc. So, it may not be our choice to do B immediately after A.

Smooth
06-19-2008, 04:02 PM
I'm thinking either one of these guys could be a piece to the puzzle we're missing, and would help round out our roster:



Bucks GM John Hammond has gotten a lot of calls, with other teams especially interested in Yi Jianlian and Charlie Villanueva. Mo Williams and Michael Redd are also in play in Milwaukee right now.

The Nets, I'm told, did not make a promise to draft Gallinari -- in part, that's because they might not keep the No. 10 pick. They are trying to find a deal that brings them a star in the draft and/or allows them to move Richard Jefferson to clear cap space for the summer of 2010. Right now, it looks as though the cap space solution is the more likely option for New Jersey

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=Drafttradetalk-080618

Pretty interesting that the Nets are willing to move RJ for contracts that would expire before 2010... We could be helping out their cause by helping ours.. :)

Green Lantern
06-19-2008, 04:07 PM
Yeah I find that curious too that the Nets want to unload RJ..
Now watch them come out and say thats a false rumor and they have no intention of trading RJ..:chuckles:

Ryno
06-19-2008, 04:12 PM
To add to your point, I think it's vital that we have our ENTIRE team from beginning to end, establish a core from the get go and not try to add pieces by the trade deadline unless it's nessecary. As we all witnessed, we had a very good team, it just took too long for them to gel. Too little to late. And that's why it's vital for t his to happen PRIOR to middle October

I couldn't agree more. I don't think we need a major shakeup like a lot of people think. We need a scoring big man (whether he be a starter or role player off the bench) and we need a guy who can create his own shot. I personally view the2 guard as a bigger need for us, but I couldn't argue with someone who said our biggest need is a scoring PF. But, back to the point, I am hoping that unless it is absolutely necessary to wait until the trading deadline, that our team is completed by Oct. 1.

theSwayze
06-19-2008, 04:27 PM
I'm thinking either one of these guys could be a piece to the puzzle we're missing, and would help round out our roster:



Pretty interesting that the Nets are willing to move RJ for contracts that would expire before 2010... We could be helping out their cause by helping ours.. :)

I'm not sure I love the idea of helping NJ clear caps space to go after Lebron. That said if RJ can help us win a ring before 23's contract is up I see almost zero chance he leaves the Cavs.

Spectre
06-19-2008, 04:31 PM
W&G - Thanks for the information. I have a quick question for you if you don't mind.

From the tone of your post, it seems like you're trying to brace us for the fact that a) Varejao is going to be traded very soon and b) after the first deal is done, we might not like the look of things.

Have you caught wind of a deal likely to go down soon that you can't reveal just yet?

The George
06-19-2008, 04:37 PM
this says to me that a Brandan Wright type of deal is a very realistic possibility

If we were to get out of the next two weeks a Brandan Wright and a Brandon Rush by trading AV 19 and maybe buying a pick than I think we have made a huge youth improvement which is critical and we still have all of our other expirings to go with


Being patient sucks though

I wanna know right now

Wine and Gold
06-19-2008, 05:32 PM
W&G - Thanks for the information. I have a quick question for you if you don't mind.

From the tone of your post, it seems like you're trying to brace us for the fact that a) Varejao is going to be traded very soon and b) after the first deal is done, we might not like the look of things.

Have you caught wind of a deal likely to go down soon that you can't reveal just yet?


Thanks. Hey, I get as excited as you guys ...I'm as much a fan of the game now, as I've ever been in my life... that's the beauty, personally, of me slowly settling into semi-retirement.

But, yeah ..I've gotten wind of NUMEROUS options that are currently out there. The one mentioned by Chad Ford has been tlaked about now for over a week, but honestly, until it was put in print I really hadn't given it much thought of being one of our more likely options ...

So, as much as I know, I realize I know, probably, what amounts to a minority percentage of what are actually out there and available to us. Where I have to be particularly prudent and guarded is giving away our draft preferences and the such ... I do have a good inkling as to where we stand on certain players and what we would prefer to do, and I really have to keep those thoughts under wraps as much as I can ...

But, I can say we like this draft, and I do as well ...I see alot of promising talents that I'd love to develop as Cavaliers.

Lee
06-19-2008, 05:37 PM
Thanks. Hey, I get as excited as you guys ...I'm as much a fan of the game now, as I've ever been in my life... that's the beauty, personally, of me slowly settling into semi-retirement.

But, yeah ..I've gotten wind of NUMEROUS options that are currently out there. The one mentioned by Chad Ford has been tlaked about now for over a week, but honestly, until it was put in print I really hadn't given it much thought of being one of our more likely options ...

So, as much as I know, I realize I know, probably, what amounts to a minority percentage of what are actually out there and available to us. Where I have to be particularly prudent and guarded is giving away our draft preferences and the such ... I do have a good inkling as to where we stand on certain players and what we would prefer to do, and I really have to keep those thoughts under wraps as much as I can ...

But, I can say we like this draft, and I do as well ...I see alot of promising talents that I'd love to develop as Cavaliers.


Ok, can you write up a summury of your favorite players in the draft then post it for us the day after the draft. I dont get a chance to actually talk to a scout about players, and I would be currious to who you like.

What late first or second round player have you personally scouted that you knew would be a good player that has turned out that way? (whether or not the cavs drafted him)

Also, what players have you scouted that where lottery picks that you thought where no brainer going to be all-stars and turned out to be flops?

Fantomas
06-19-2008, 05:45 PM
Ok, can you write up a summury of your favorite players in the draft then post it for us the day after the draft. I dont get a chance to actually talk to a scout about players, and I would be currious to who you like.

What late first or second round player have you personally scouted that you knew would be a good player that has turned out that way? (whether or not the cavs drafted him)

Also, what players have you scouted that where lottery picks that you thought where no brainer going to be all-stars and turned out to be flops?


To that matter at some point I would be very interested to know if W&G could talk to the lot of us in a chat room environment. I know you could not really the spill the beans more than you have currently (and an HUGE THANK YOU FOR THAT!); I am certain that there would be a lot of interest.

Thanks for keeping us informed.

TheISHT
06-19-2008, 05:45 PM
Hey Wine & Gold, 2 questions, do you think AV will be moved before the start of the season and how much of a pain in the ass is Fegan gonna use Andy's No Trade clause.


BW seems to think he may not be moved until after December 5th.

« The NBA targets the grand flop mastersGetting a handle on Varejao rumors
There has been an uptick in Anderson Varejao rumors bouncing around the last couple of days. Today, ESPN’s Chad Ford floated one involving the Golden State Warriors. Earlier this week, Beacon Journal columnist Patrick McManamon wrote an excellent column summing up Varejao’s situation.

So with all that out there, let me tell you what I know about what has been going on.

–The Cavs have had trade talks with at least five teams about Varejao. But these talks have three sides, the Cavs, the potential trading partner and Varejao’s agent, Dan Fegan. Because Andy has to give permission to be traded before Dec. 5 (a stipulation when a player has an offer sheet matched by his team), he must be in the loop before a deal can be done. This permission will be given (he cannot be traded to the Bobcats under any circumstances until Dec.) only if Fegan likes the chances of Varejao getting big minutes and having an important role at his new destination. The reason is this is Varejao’s contract year essentially and a big season would mean a chance at the big deal Andy has wanted for a year. I also know that at least one trading partner has already been told “no” by Fegan. I do not know which team, but keep in mind as the Cavs are linked to the Milwaukee Bucks in trade rumors that Fegan also represents Yi Jianlian and probably would not like Varejao and Yi fighting for minutes with one another.
–Because of all these moving parts — there are three different sides able to pitch trades — any deal involving Varejao will be difficult to pull off right now. The Cavs do not have to trade him and they may wait and let the Dec. 5 deadline pass so they have more freedom. But obviously there is a market for Varejao and with the draft coming up, there’s an uptick in trying to get things done.
–The Cavs were pleased with how professionally Andy handled playing with Ben Wallace and even went to him and thanked him at the end of the season. But it is clear to both sides that Andy was not happy yielding crunch time minutes to Wallace and that is an issue that may become problematic next season when Varejao starts feeling the heat of playing another contract. With that in mind and the fear of losing Andy for nothing and/or going another 15 rounds with Fegan next summer, it is easy to see why the Cavs are open to trading their only big man under 30.
–There are a number of players the Cavs like in this draft. If anything, they are looking to move up in the draft or get a second pick instead of trading out as rumors have suggested. In addition, unless there is another rock solid plan in place, it is doubtful the Cavs would only trade Varejao unless they were getting another big man in return. It is questionable whether they can get an immediately contributing big with the 19th pick and losing Varejao would leave a huge hole because he is the team’s only legit backup center.
–I’ll have more on the draft over the weekend or early next week.


http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/cavs/2008/06/19/getting-a-handle-on-varejao-rumors/

Jon
06-19-2008, 05:46 PM
Well, that would be a leap of faith for Ferry to do one deal now in anticipation that he can pull off other deals later. You really would want to hope that each deal stands on it's own merits to some extent UNLESS he has a handshake deal on the follow-on deals.

I will be surprised if we don't end up surprised.

The vast majority of us didn't expect our big deal last year to bring back Ben Wallace, Wally World, etc; let alone to send out Larry.

Wine and Gold
06-19-2008, 05:55 PM
Well, that would be a leap of faith for Ferry to do one deal now in anticipation that he can pull off other deals later. You really would want to hope that each deal stands on it's own merits to some extent UNLESS he has a handshake deal on the follow-on deals.

I will be surprised if we don't end up surprised.

The vast majority of us didn't expect our big deal last year to bring back Ben Wallace, Wally World, etc; let alone to send out Larry.

He may not know exactly what deals he will ultimately end up with, but, he will have knowledge of what options are and will be available to him... plus, after the draft is completed, post draft roster adjustments are always a norm throughout the league ....all teams spend the majority of the offseason looking to balance out their respective rosters the best they can ...if you look at all the NBA rosters right after the draft, the vast majority have alot of tinkering left to do, we will be no different.

southbeach
06-19-2008, 06:04 PM
well yeah ...that's what you need to look at ...if we lose AV and don't have what looks like a complete roster ...people freak and think we just exposed ourselves. We don't want to leave the 1st round of this draft, we want to add a young, multi-faceted big to our roster, and we would still like to add another young piece in the draft, preferably 1st round talent.

Then, Ferry needs to be comfortable with what he can get accomplished with our expiring contracts in later moves down the road ....if he's comfortable enough at the back end potential, then he can feel confident making the necassary early moves ....

This offseason won't be completed for months ...nothing gets done until the deadlines ....it's just part of the fabric of how deals get done ...they always go to the last second ...


This is good information. It sounds like the Cavs would like to get an additional first round selection so they can add two first round talents. I also agree that it's a good idea to trade Andy. His agent is going to have him opt out this coming year and is going to want more then Andy's worth again. Plus with the new flopping rule, a big weapon has been taken from Andy's game.

We are fourtanate to have an owner willing to spend the bucks. That makes a big difference. The only thing I don't like about Gilbert is his man love for Mike Brown.

KI4MVP
06-19-2008, 06:06 PM
just throwing something out there relative to the Andy trade rumor. Last year we couldn't buy draft picks because we didn't have trade exceptions large enough to take on a player as part of the trade buying a pick.

If we also send golden state Eric Snow as part of the trade (or as a separate trade), instead of having Snow's contract as an expiring deal, we end up with a trade exception equal to his salary. Thus instead of being able to offer a team an expiring contract in another trade, we can offer them immediate cap relief. Thus perhaps a trade like this would be part of moving up in the draft and not out of the draft.

Jon
06-19-2008, 06:06 PM
There is something to be said for digging a hole in your roster, because what free-agents willing to sign cheap and short-term deals look for most of all is playing time on a good team.

But it would be a major departure from what Ferry has done in the past, when he's turned down deals because his contingencies weren't met.

Personally I don't have a problem with a leap-of-faith, there usually are a lot of opportunities that pop-up, but it's not my job on the line. heh

bob2the2nd
06-19-2008, 06:09 PM
someone correct me if im wrong but dont the cavs have a trade exception sitting around? I dont think its a very big one but im pretty sure it has to do with the part of the trade that went to seattle, maybe im wrong.

Maximus
06-19-2008, 06:12 PM
someone correct me if im wrong but dont the cavs have a trade exception sitting around? I dont think its a very big one but im pretty sure it has to do with the part of the trade that went to seattle, maybe im wrong.

I believe we have a 1.65M exception from the Simmons for a 2nd rounder trade we made with Chicago.

Dirk Gently
06-19-2008, 06:13 PM
An initial move could be something as simple as Andy for a draft pick or trade exception. On paper, that first move might seem like it's weakening Cleveland's front court, but that trade exception or draft pick might be packaged for something else down the road that would make more sense when we can see the big picture. I'm ready, and excited that it seems like Ferry isn't just sitting on his hands.

Smooth
06-19-2008, 06:14 PM
someone correct me if im wrong but dont the cavs have a trade exception sitting around? I dont think its a very big one but im pretty sure it has to do with the part of the trade that went to seattle, maybe im wrong.

Yep we have two..

One coming from the Cedric Simmons trade worth 1,629, 120...

And one coming from the David Wesley trade worth 1,750,000

So those could be in play but you have to remember that TE's can't be combined with players... They can only be used in a separate deal, without a player going out with it...

tedginnjr
06-19-2008, 10:12 PM
Can someone explain to me real quick... how would trading E Snow earn us a trade exception... and how would that exception help us move up in the draft if we don't have a draft pick after the Wright trade?

Joel
06-19-2008, 10:37 PM
Can someone explain to me real quick... how would trading E Snow earn us a trade exception... and how would that exception help us move up in the draft if we don't have a draft pick after the Wright trade?
Like this. As a complete hypothetical, let's say that the Andy-for-Brandan Wright trade would go down in two parts.

Trade #1:
Golden State receives: Andy Varejao
Cleveland receives: Brandan Wright, Kosta Perovic, and Marco Belinelli

The salaries in this trade nearly match, and this trade could be done straight-up as a three-for-one.

Trade #2:
Golden State receives: Eric Snow and the #19 pick
Cleveland receives: a future second-rounder

The value here would be that we would receive a trade exception in the amount of $7.3M - the amount of Eric Snow's salary next year. That is a trade exception that we could use later, to acquire a player like Chris Wilcox in a trade, or a player like Jose Calderon or Corey Maggette in a sign-and-trade.

For their trouble, Golden State would receive the #19 pick. Eric Snow would retire immediately, costing Golden State nothing (if I understand correctly.) To put it another way, Golden State would manage to get something out of their trade exception - the #19 pick.

***

Another scenario might be:

Golden State receives: Sasha Pavlovic and Andy Varejao
Cleveland receives: the #14 pick

Sasha and Andy's salaries are very close to $10M, and if their combined salaries could "fit inside" Golden State's trade exception (I'm not sure if they do or not, it's very close), then we would have right on the order of a $10M trade exception to use in future trades.

***

LJ4MVP could be onto something here. This scenario, or something like it, would fit the description that W+G describes: it might look like we gave away the #19 pick for nothing, but this would set us up for bigger trades down the line.

Maximus
06-19-2008, 10:43 PM
Like this. As a complete hypothetical, let's say that the Andy-for-Brandan Wright trade would go down in two parts.

Trade #1:
Golden State receives: Andy Varejao
Cleveland receives: Brandan Wright, Kosta Perovic, and Marco Belinelli

The salaries in this trade nearly match, and this trade could be done straight-up as a three-for-one.

Trade #2:
Golden State receives: Eric Snow and the #19 pick
Cleveland receives: a future second-rounder

The value here would be that we would receive a trade exception in the amount of $7.3M - the amount of Eric Snow's salary next year. That is a trade exception that we could use later, to acquire a player like Chris Wilcox in a trade, or a player like Jose Calderon or Corey Maggette in a sign-and-trade.

For their trouble, Golden State would receive the #19 pick. Eric Snow would retire immediately, costing Golden State nothing (if I understand correctly.) To put it another way, Golden State would manage to get something out of their trade exception - the #19 pick.

***

Another scenario might be:

Golden State receives: Sasha Pavlovic and Andy Varejao
Cleveland receives: the #14 pick

Sasha and Andy's salaries are very close to $10M, and if their combined salaries could "fit inside" Golden State's trade exception (I'm not sure if they do or not, it's very close), then we would have right on the order of a $10M trade exception to use in future trades.

***

LJ4MVP could be onto something here. This scenario, or something like it, would fit the description that W+G describes: it might look like we gave away the #19 pick for nothing, but this would set us up for bigger trades down the line.


Andy is a BYC(base year comp) player...

bob2the2nd
06-19-2008, 10:45 PM
Like this. As a complete hypothetical, let's say that the Andy-for-Brandan Wright trade would go down in two parts.

Trade #1:
Golden State receives: Andy Varejao
Cleveland receives: Brandan Wright, Kosta Perovic, and Marco Belinelli

The salaries in this trade nearly match, and this trade could be done straight-up as a three-for-one.

Trade #2:
Golden State receives: Eric Snow and the #19 pick
Cleveland receives: a future second-rounder

The value here would be that we would receive a trade exception in the amount of $7.3M - the amount of Eric Snow's salary next year. That is a trade exception that we could use later, to acquire a player like Chris Wilcox in a trade, or a player like Jose Calderon or Corey Maggette in a sign-and-trade.

For their trouble, Golden State would receive the #19 pick. Eric Snow would retire immediately, costing Golden State nothing (if I understand correctly.) To put it another way, Golden State would manage to get something out of their trade exception - the #19 pick.

***

Another scenario might be:

Golden State receives: Sasha Pavlovic and Andy Varejao
Cleveland receives: the #14 pick

Sasha and Andy's salaries are very close to $10M, and if their combined salaries could "fit inside" Golden State's trade exception (I'm not sure if they do or not, it's very close), then we would have right on the order of a $10M trade exception to use in future trades.

***

LJ4MVP could be onto something here. This scenario, or something like it, would fit the description that W+G describes: it might look like we gave away the #19 pick for nothing, but this would set us up for bigger trades down the line.

they would still have to deal with a buyout of his contract, and he would still be on their cap space. what it does for them is postpones when they get cap relief. so basically lets say they are under the cap this year but want to go after a certain free agent next year, this gives them that chance as it clears snow's salary next year.

Joel
06-19-2008, 10:56 PM
Andy is a BYC(base year comp) player...

...which would mean that it would make sense for us to send Andy to Golden State in return for their trade exception, right? The base-year compensation thing means that we can only take back half of Andy's salary in return. That's usually a huge problem, because trades also have to have matching salaries within 25% or $100,000 - so trades usually have to get really huge if they involve base-year compensation players, to make both of those caveats work.

But if Andy is traded using Golden State's trade exception, then sure - we have no worries, because we would probably only take back a draft pick in return.

Joel
06-19-2008, 11:02 PM
they would still have to deal with a buyout of his contract, and he would still be on their cap space. what it does for them is postpones when they get cap relief. so basically lets say they are under the cap this year but want to go after a certain free agent next year, this gives them that chance as it clears snow's salary next year.

I'm not sure about the buyout; Snow's contract is covered by insurance if he retires because of injury, right?

Anyway, I was offering a hypothetical as a response to the question of how a deal could go down in which we could end up with a trade exception... I wasn't trying to create a specific, completely realistic example beyond that.

bob2the2nd
06-19-2008, 11:05 PM
I'm not sure about the buyout; Snow's contract is covered by insurance if he retires because of injury, right?

Anyway, I was offering a hypothetical as a response to the question of how a deal could go down in which we could end up with a trade exception... I wasn't trying to create a specific, completely realistic example beyond that.


well i know he goes on their cap space without question, but i believe a buyout has to be arranged as he is retiring and still owed money.

Splitz
06-19-2008, 11:33 PM
I think Ferry deserves to be trusted on this one because I still to this day think he did a hell of a job with the mid-season trade. I thought it was not only creative but it benefited us even though it didn't put us over the top. I do wonder how certain he can be though to make initial moves that seemingly don't benefit us in hopes of landing that knockout deal. He either thinks this will allow us some flexibility or he already has ironed out some details for a future deal contingent on a few surface moves. Should make for one hell of a draft.

Smooth
06-19-2008, 11:53 PM
Found this interesting:


I haven't seen this posted yet:

Ric Bucher was on the Pulse (ESPN Radio) last night and was asked if the Cavs are going to add more pieces to help LeBron.

He said (paraphrasing) that the Cavs were very active in exploring all trade possibilities and that two names that he's heard (although nothing seems imminent) were Jason Richardson and Marcus Camby.

Wouldn't it be funny if we acquired both Wright and JRich? :chuckles:

Could be a part of the puzzle...

tedginnjr
06-20-2008, 12:03 AM
I can't say I would mind it, Smooth... I'd take Camby or JRich in a heartbeat, though I would rather get a guy like Redd if I had the choice... but beggers can't be choosers, right?


My perfect off-season would involve something like this, however unrealistic it may be:

IN: CDR, Brandan Wright, Michael Redd, Bobby Simmons
OUT: Verajao, Wally, Eric Snow, Damon Jones

The thinking is, trade Verajao and the pick for Wright, buy a draft pick for CDR, then trade Wally, E Snow, and Damon for Redd and Bobby Simmons.

To continue with my hypothetical, the rotation could look something like:

PG: West, Gibson
SG: Redd, CDR
SF: LeBron James, Bobby Simmons
PF: Ben Wallace, Brandan Wright
C: Z, Joe Smith

kblade
06-20-2008, 12:23 AM
wouldent Charlie Villineava be a better option than BW.

Here is charlies bio

NBA Comparison: Lamar Odom

Stregnths: A strong all around talent. Charlie excels at passing the ball, scoring from the perimeter and handling the ball on the break. His inside/outside game makes him a virtual lock for a double-double every night. His athleticism makes him an excellent rebounder and perimeter defender. Scores his points from all over; his height allows to shoot over almost everyone on the outside and also allows him take the ball down low. He's just starting to live up to his unbelievable potential.

Weaknesses: A bit laid back at times, which leads to scoring in bunches and then going cold. Must understand that he will not always be the biggest and most athletic player on the floor. Strictly an inside talent, and could use some post development. Still soft at times, which leads to him being a weak interior defender. Not a great shot blocker, despite his athleticism and height. Needs to develop a killer instinct.

Notes: If Charlie ever plays with the intensity that his teammate, Luol Deng plays with, he would be unstoppable. Great size and skill, a player who does a bit of everything.

-Savneet Singh

The George
06-20-2008, 12:26 AM
J Rich would be a very good fit here...He can shoot he can score he can run and he can create his own offense all on top of not being allergic to defense...I bet in Mike Browns system he would be a decent defender

Camby next to Z is a good match but man we would be OLD up front


That would be the best defensive team in the league though IMO...

tedginnjr
06-20-2008, 12:29 AM
wouldent Charlie Villineava be a better option than BW.

Here is charlies bio

NBA Comparison: Lamar Odom

Stregnths: A strong all around talent. Charlie excels at passing the ball, scoring from the perimeter and handling the ball on the break. His inside/outside game makes him a virtual lock for a double-double every night. His athleticism makes him an excellent rebounder and perimeter defender. Scores his points from all over; his height allows to shoot over almost everyone on the outside and also allows him take the ball down low. He's just starting to live up to his unbelievable potential.

Weaknesses: A bit laid back at times, which leads to scoring in bunches and then going cold. Must understand that he will not always be the biggest and most athletic player on the floor. Strictly an inside talent, and could use some post development. Still soft at times, which leads to him being a weak interior defender. Not a great shot blocker, despite his athleticism and height. Needs to develop a killer instinct.

Notes: If Charlie ever plays with the intensity that his teammate, Luol Deng plays with, he would be unstoppable. Great size and skill, a player who does a bit of everything.

-Savneet Singh

Villanueva is a very good player but: 1.) I don't think he's on the trading block and 2.) Verajao is blocking any deal to Milwaukee, apparently.

imahustla
06-20-2008, 12:32 AM
I would LOVE to have Jason Richardson on this team. He's a guy that was on my radar last offseason when I heard that G-State was looking to dump him, and I thought sending Drew Gooden back to the Bay Area for J-Rich would be a good start to a possible trade package.

Too bad we can't send Varejao's punk ass there until December. Wonder if something like the 19th pick + Wally's expiring can do the trick.

imahustla
06-20-2008, 12:35 AM
The thinking is, trade Verajao and the pick for Wright, buy a draft pick for CDR, then trade Wally, E Snow, and Damon for Redd and Bobby Simmons.
I know that you've already given us the caveat that this is a hypothetical situation, but if Varejao and the 19th pick, which is a far, FAR better trade package than Wally, Snow, and DJ, is good enough to just get us an unproven talent like Wright, than how can the latter trade package be good enough to get us a guy like Michael Redd???

Doctor K
06-20-2008, 12:38 AM
I would LOVE to have Jason Richardson on this team. He's a guy that was on my radar last offseason when I heard that G-State was looking to dump him, and I thought sending Drew Gooden back to the Bay Area for J-Rich would be a good start to a possible trade package.

Too bad we can't send Varejao's punk ass there until December. Wonder if something like the 19th pick + Wally's expiring can do the trick.That's because you severely overrated the value of that bum....Welcome to the other side...

tedginnjr
06-20-2008, 12:41 AM
I know that you've already given us the caveat that this is a hypothetical situation, but if Varejao and the 19th pick, which is a far, FAR better trade package than Wally, Snow, and DJ, is good enough to just get us an unproven talent like Wright, than how can the latter trade package be good enough to get us a guy like Michael Redd???

Well, the idea is Milwaukee is trying to dump salary... They would love to get an ineffective Simmons off the books, since he's owed another 40 million over the next four years... and if we are willing to take on Simmons' contract along with Redd's, then we're talking about them dumping off 3 or 4 more years of 28 million dollars per... which is a pretty big chunk of change. Maybe it's not realistic, but maybe if we throw in Gibson or something, who knows. But I doubt that many other teams can offer them the cap flexibility to rebuild like we can.

imahustla
06-20-2008, 12:58 AM
Dude, PIP...that avatar again. THE ANGER SHARKS ARE SWIMMING IN MY HEAD!!!!!!!!

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/m7tF0D1zHqc&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/m7tF0D1zHqc&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Jon
06-20-2008, 01:00 AM
If Snow retires due to injury then insurance will kick in as long as they're satisfied he's unable to play.

Numbers Guy
06-20-2008, 01:51 AM
Found this interesting:



Wouldn't it be funny if we acquired both Wright and JRich? :chuckles:

Could be a part of the puzzle...

Holy shit if we got J-Rich:omg:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=guUnXA32oXM

J-Rich + LeBron = Championship.. ****a big 3

If the Bobcats really do offer us J-Rich we have to give them everything they want, Boobie, Lonte, Av, Sasha draft picks.

DeeThree
06-20-2008, 02:08 AM
I always mix up Jason Richardson and Richard Jefferson, ugh..


Jason Richardson sounds nice though =)

KI4MVP
06-20-2008, 02:08 AM
Can someone explain to me real quick... how would trading E Snow earn us a trade exception... and how would that exception help us move up in the draft if we don't have a draft pick after the Wright trade?

golden state has a $10 million trade exception. They would use part of it to trade for Andy, the rest in a separate. but related, trade for snow.

By making those trades, we end up with two trade exceptions.

Last year I believe phoenix used two draft picks to package with a player and sell for $3 million plus a trade exception. We tried to buy both picks, but didn't have large enough trade exceptions to also take back the player they wanted to move.

Thus if we did something like this, we'd have a 7.3 million trade exception to use to help buy a draft pick. And it's not just draft pick time something like this would be useful. Remember we lost on on Scola last year because we didn't have a trade exception as the spurs needed to dump him to get under the luxury tax.

tedginnjr
06-20-2008, 02:29 AM
Wow, didn't realize Richardson was so young... he's only 27, basically in or about to enter his prime. I'd rather have a guy like Redd, but they are really almost identical, statistically.

Redd, Richardson
FG% 44.2, 44.1
3FG% 36.2, 40.6
FT% 82.0, 75.2
PPG 22.7, 21.8
Reb 4.3, 5.4
Assists 3.4, 3.1
TO 2.5, 2.0

Now for the hell of it, Hollinger's PER: Redd 18.90, Richardson 18.48.

Now that we've established that they were essentially the same player statistically last year, let's go over a few things:

1.) Their health issues are basically the exact same, with Richardson and Redd both missing about 30 games two years ago, but staying relatively healthy last year and really have no previous health problems.
2.) Redd has a higher shooting percentage in every category over his career, and also is overall a slightly better scorer.
3.) Redd gets to the line more.
4.) Their ages are basically the same.
5.) If you're interested in the sort of thing, both have proven to be effective in the playoffs in their limited opportunities.

Basically, by taking a look at the numbers and their overall careers, I was somewhat shocked to see how little difference there is between the two. To me, Michael Redd is clearly the preferred player to get if you had to choose between the two, just based on the fact that he is a slightly better scorer, shoots more free throws at a higher percentage, and has the ability to put up big numbers on any given night.

However, I think this shows that they are essentially the same player. Richardson may come with a lower pricetag, and if he's available, I would want the Cavs to make it happen.

Numbers Guy
06-20-2008, 03:27 AM
Wow, didn't realize Richardson was so young... he's only 27, basically in or about to enter his prime. I'd rather have a guy like Redd, but they are really almost identical, statistically.

Redd, Richardson
FG% 44.2, 44.1
3FG% 36.2, 40.6
FT% 82.0, 75.2
PPG 22.7, 21.8
Reb 4.3, 5.4
Assists 3.4, 3.1
TO 2.5, 2.0

Now for the hell of it, Hollinger's PER: Redd 18.90, Richardson 18.48.

Now that we've established that they were essentially the same player statistically last year, let's go over a few things:

1.) Their health issues are basically the exact same, with Richardson and Redd both missing about 30 games two years ago, but staying relatively healthy last year and really have no previous health problems.
2.) Redd has a higher shooting percentage in every category over his career, and also is overall a slightly better scorer.
3.) Redd gets to the line more.
4.) Their ages are basically the same.
5.) If you're interested in the sort of thing, both have proven to be effective in the playoffs in their limited opportunities.

Basically, by taking a look at the numbers and their overall careers, I was somewhat shocked to see how little difference there is between the two. To me, Michael Redd is clearly the preferred player to get if you had to choose between the two, just based on the fact that he is a slightly better scorer, shoots more free throws at a higher percentage, and has the ability to put up big numbers on any given night.

However, I think this shows that they are essentially the same player. Richardson may come with a lower pricetag, and if he's available, I would want the Cavs to make it happen.

Props.

I would take J-Rich because hes more athletic and a better finisher. Plus, Jasons 2 years younger. I wouldn't mind Michael Redd rotting up in Milwaukee because we offered him the chance to come here and he rejected us. I don't care if it was for the money or not, if he wanted to win he should of came to his state team. But of course if we get him I won't feel the same way :thumbup:

Wes
06-20-2008, 07:23 AM
All of this Jason Richardson talk is nice, but someone needs to explain to me what the Cavs can offer to Charlotte in order to get their best scorer.

Ben
06-20-2008, 08:16 AM
There is no truth to the Richardson rumor. - Brian Windhorst

The George
06-20-2008, 10:21 AM
There is no truth to the Richardson rumor. - Brian Windhorst

Thats enough for me to stop thinking about it

Damage
06-20-2008, 10:27 AM
Dammit

KU_216
06-20-2008, 10:40 AM
I knew there would be no truth to the Richardson rumour. Charlotte gave up Brandan Wright for him, just a year ago.

RajaBell
06-20-2008, 10:50 AM
Redd is a much better scorer, remember he scored aroud 26ppg some time ago, while Richardson's career high is this last seasonm with 21ppg

BRInQ
06-20-2008, 11:09 AM
Rumor on Realgm has the Cavs interested in Harrington. Could this be another piece of the B. Wright puzzle?

Maybe AV, Damon, 19th pick for Harrington, Wright.

The Voice
06-20-2008, 11:41 AM
Active Trade Talks
Sources say the Cavs have been quite active in trade talks in days leading up to the draft.
Rumors say the Cavs would be open to moving up and taking Kansas shooting guard Brandon Rush in Thursday's draft. They currently hold the No. 19 pick.

Seattle has four second-round picks in the draft (Nos. 32, 46, 50 and 56). The Cavs have reportedly talked to the SuperSonics about acquiring one of those selections. -- The News-Herald

I knew we'd be trying to buy a second round pick. I don't understand why it says we'd be moving up to get Brandon Rush though, he's projected in the early 20's.

tedginnjr
06-20-2008, 11:46 AM
I knew we'd be trying to buy a second round pick. I don't understand why it says we'd be moving up to get Brandon Rush though, he's projected in the early 20's.

From what I understand he's been moving up over the past week.

Douglar
06-20-2008, 12:09 PM
From what I understand he's been moving up over the past week.

Looks like Rush is in the mid-teens with less than a week to go--

tedginnjr
06-20-2008, 12:20 PM
Boston has six potential free agents - guards Eddie House, Sam Cassell, and Tony Allen, center Scot Pollard, and forwards P.J. Brown and James Posey. The most crucial is Posey, 31, who has indicated through his agent, Mark Bartelstein, he will opt out of the two-year deal he signed with Boston, forgoing $3.4 million to hit the open market.

Posey, Boston's best bench player, was a crucial component in the playoffs, especially in the Finals.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/HeadlineStories.asp?hd=20080620&lc=NBA#STORY_9489

Any we we could sign Posey this offseason?

The Voice
06-20-2008, 12:26 PM
Any we we could sign Posey this offseason?

I doubt it, the asking price will probably be high even though he's from Twinsburg. It's likely he won't sign, unless he wants to return home and will sign cheap. Then again Gilbert says he's ready to spend, so who knows what we may offer him (out of the MLE).


I don't really think Boston cares about letting Pollard go.

Wes
06-20-2008, 12:26 PM
Any we we could sign Posey this offseason?

Whoa, suddenly a feeling of deja vu came over me...

The Voice
06-20-2008, 12:28 PM
Whoa, suddenly a feeling of deja vu came over me...

Bet Ferry is kicken himself on that one...

CBBI
06-20-2008, 12:31 PM
I'm not sure exactly how this would work with Golden State's trade exception and what have you, but would any of you guys do Anderson Varejao for Golden State's #14 overall pick straight up?

That would ensure the Cavs could land Brandon Rush ahead of Phoenix (15) and Toronto (17) and then the Cavs could draft Varejao's replacement at 19 be it Speights or Ajinca or whoever.

Would Golden State even do that? I guess it depends on who they would be looking to pick at 14.

Green Lantern
06-20-2008, 12:31 PM
Sasha might have had something to do with that..hehe..remember Ferry chose to wait him out and most talks with other players were restrained.

Coyote
06-20-2008, 12:44 PM
I don't think Posey is from Twinsburg. He moved there, if I remember right, as a sophomore. (I graduated from there two years before he showed up.) I think - think - he's from...brace yourselves...the Toronto area. But he was born in Cleveland and from what I've heard his connections to T-burg are still strong. I know that he's kept in touch with his high school hoops coach.

I wanted him on the team last year and considered it a failure that we didn't get him. He's the perfect 6th man, in my book.

The Voice
06-20-2008, 12:48 PM
I don't think Posey is from Twinsburg. He moved there, if I remember right, as a sophomore. (I graduated from there two years before he showed up.) I think - think - he's from...brace yourselves...the Toronto area. But he was born in Cleveland and from what I've heard his connections to T-burg are still strong. I know that he's kept in touch with his high school hoops coach.

I wanted him on the team last year and considered it a failure that we didn't get him. He's the perfect 6th man, in my book.

Well that's cause Ferry was sitting on his hands last offseason...

TruBuckeye22
06-20-2008, 01:46 PM
I knew we'd be trying to buy a second round pick. I don't understand why it says we'd be moving up to get Brandon Rush though, he's projected in the early 20's.

especially when you can get Courtney Lee at 19 who will be better anyhow.

Smooth
06-20-2008, 02:16 PM
I'm not sure exactly how this would work with Golden State's trade exception and what have you, but would any of you guys do Anderson Varejao for Golden State's #14 overall pick straight up?

That would ensure the Cavs could land Brandon Rush ahead of Phoenix (15) and Toronto (17) and then the Cavs could draft Varejao's replacement at 19 be it Speights or Ajinca or whoever.

Would Golden State even do that? I guess it depends on who they would be looking to pick at 14.

It's a good idea but it depends... If we could maybe swindle that pick to another team, and it would hold more value then Varejao, then yeah... But otherwise, I wouldn't trade Rush for Varejao... I'm not convinced Rush will even be worth the #19 pick, let alone the #14 pick...

Plus, I think the Warriors would rather take their chances with a Robin Lopez, Marreese Speights, or any other big man than Varejao, Fegan and his new contract next summer...

1B4IGO
06-20-2008, 02:20 PM
especially when you can get Courtney Lee at 19 who will be better anyhow.

Maybe that's what Ferry is thinking also. But Lee should be there in the second round and one of Seattle's pick could put him on our roster.

The George
06-20-2008, 02:41 PM
I would trade AV if I thought for sure I could land Brandon Rush and a guy like Kofus or another big I liked at 19

BTW Kofus is killing kids at workouts...He is semi starting to win me over and I a UM fan so dont give em the OSU line

I like a few other bigs better but I certainly wouldnt hate grabbing him at 19

I really like Rush and the Ganillrio kid as well...

Green Lantern
06-20-2008, 02:44 PM
Don't be fooled by workouts..it's better to look at how he played 5 on 5 ..
Workouts for the NBA are like the combine is for the NFL...

CBBI
06-20-2008, 02:54 PM
especially when you can get Courtney Lee at 19 who will be better anyhow.

I disagree. I think Rush is a better player then Lee and a better fit on this team. I think Rush could step in and play rotation minutes at SG and SF right now.

I think his mix of size, length, athleticism, perimeter defense, and perimeter shooting makes him a perfect fit at the SG position for this team.

Rush is like Pavlovic on steroids and with a brain.

Lee
06-20-2008, 02:59 PM
I would trade AV if I thought for sure I could land Brandon Rush and a guy like Kofus or another big I liked at 19

BTW Kofus is killing kids at workouts...He is semi starting to win me over and I a UM fan so dont give em the OSU line

I like a few other bigs better but I certainly wouldnt hate grabbing him at 19

I really like Rush and the Ganillrio kid as well...


Its because you are not an osu fan you like him, osu fans hate him. I think he has potential. He to me is no worse than Mcgee or Jordan, if not slightly ahead. I see those two as busts. Kufos will end up being that annoying offensive big man, like dirk, who will score but give the same amount of defense as a tree He will always be soft, but that doesnt mean he wont have an effective carreer. It just means he wont be shaq or dwight howard, but what do you expect from a late 1st.

Green Lantern
06-20-2008, 03:05 PM
Lee ..OSU fans in general don't hate Dufus..errr Koufus..
What some of us saw was obvious and twofold.
1-He was playing out of position..he's a finesse wing player..
2-He really needed to stay in another year/or two and develope his game.

U and I have talked about his game so this isn't something I'm making up.
I am leery of taking him..the Cavs can't amke any mistakes with this draft..if we had parts in place and wanted a developmental type-euro player..I wouldn't be opposed as much as I am now.

And as far as being a late round pick they all have flaws(just like the top ones) but I do expect some to bring a good game with them.

Lee
06-20-2008, 03:10 PM
Lee ..OSU fans in general don't hate Dufus..errr Koufus..
What some of us saw was obvious and twofold.
1-He was playing out of position..he's a finesse wing player..
2-He really needed to stay in another year/or two and develope his game.

U and I have talked about his game so this isn't something I'm making up.
I am leery of taking him..the Cavs can't amke any mistakes with this draft..if we had parts in place and wanted a developmental type-euro player..I wouldn't be opposed as much as I am now.

euro player is a great discription. He did play out of place. He seems more like the soft euro type pf to me. No way could he be quick enough to play the 3, so wing is out. The problem is #19 is such a crap shoot, and his offensive skills at 7'1 will land you in the lottery 9 out of 10 times. If he is there, I think for that alone he is hard to pass up.

He did need more time to develope. As other bigs prove not to be nba worthy, he will keep his "potential" tag for 2 or 3 years becasue of his age and heighth and offensive skills. That alone could be enough to get us something good in a trade in the future. He is the type of "potential" we need on the bench to be another trade asset at the very least.

Jordan or McGee to mee will end up like simmons, and quckly prove they are not NBA players, imo.

Green Lantern
06-20-2008, 03:16 PM
Well I have my own bigs I like ..and they're not Jordan..I'm leaning away from McGee..
I like Spreights but because of his head not being all there..it brings to mind Gooden..
We don't need another big like that who is frustrating to have on the team due to mental laspes and not having the instincts.

I like Thompson..always have and I think he could give the Cavs a bit more than Koufus..
I don't want another Tradgic Langdon in a 7ftr's body:D

Lee
06-20-2008, 03:20 PM
Well I have my own bigs I like ..and they're not Jordan..I'm leaning away from McGee..
I like Spreights but because of his head not being all there..it brings to mind Gooden..
We don't need another big like that who is frustrating to have on the team due to mental laspes and not having the instincts.

I like Thompson..always have and I think he could give the Cavs a bit more than Koufus..
I don't want another Tradgic Langdon in a 7ftr's body:D

If spreights turned out to be gooden and we got him I would be happy. At the 19th pick that would be a great value. If who we get ends up as part of the 8 man rotation and is a solid contributer, we did good. I do like thompson too, spreights on ability, maybe the light comes on, maybe it doesnt, then koufus. But I rather select cdr or Lee because I think a wing is more important and has a better chance of becoming a good player later in the draft.

Green Lantern
06-20-2008, 03:27 PM
I liked Gooden to a point..it was those lapses and him being out of position that hurt..I could have tolerated his streaky offensive play if he had sound defensive awareness..

This is a deep draft..I wish we had several picks and didn't have to worry about aquiring another..this would be the draft to have one high pick, one mid round, and one second round..

No Offense
06-20-2008, 05:41 PM
I wanted him on the team last year and considered it a failure that we didn't get him. He's the perfect 6th man, in my book.

Sasha would have been a perfect 16th man.

TruBuckeye22
06-20-2008, 06:31 PM
Maybe that's what Ferry is thinking also. But Lee should be there in the second round and one of Seattle's pick could put him on our roster.


maybe he was last until round 2 but it seems people are starting to think he will go 22 to Orlando but those are just opinions.


disagree. I think Rush is a better player then Lee and a better fit on this team. I think Rush could step in and play rotation minutes at SG and SF right now.

I think his mix of size, length, athleticism, perimeter defense, and perimeter shooting makes him a perfect fit at the SG position for this team.

Rush is like Pavlovic on steroids and with a brain.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I think Lee will end up being a much more well rounded offensive player and his defense will be close enough that it won't make a difference. I will say Lee won't be able to to play SF minutes like Rush. either way I think it would be a solid upgrade in the backcourt I just believe Lee will be the better of the 2.

WorldBFree
06-20-2008, 08:12 PM
Lee, Rush, CDR... I'll take either one of them. Although I've never seen him play, the more I learn of Courtney Lee the more I like him.

When it's all said and done, barring a trade, I think it will be very very difficult for Danny to pass up upgrading the two guard position next Thursday.

Lee
06-20-2008, 10:49 PM
I am starting to think cdr will suprise some people and turn out to be a good pro. He just has that intagible that cant be taught or measured in a work out. He just has the ability to get it done. He seems like a poor mans grant hill almost to me, at that just aint to bad.

Coyote
06-21-2008, 04:07 PM
I don't watch a ton of college hoops, so I'm always at a disadvantage in these discussions, but I did catch a lot of CDR in the tournament and I like his game - and it's that ability to create his own offense that I think is most appealing. He'd take awhile to fit in, but if he did, for a #19 pick, that would be a huge plus.

I didn't see as much from McGee during the season, but the more I read and see of him, I think we should take him if the opportunity arises. Which it seems like it won't, unless we trade up with Portland.

Wine and Gold
06-21-2008, 04:21 PM
I don't watch a ton of college hoops, so I'm always at a disadvantage in these discussions, but I did catch a lot of CDR in the tournament and I like his game - and it's that ability to create his own offense that I think is most appealing. He'd take awhile to fit in, but if he did, for a #19 pick, that would be a huge plus.

I didn't see as much from McGee during the season, but the more I read and see of him, I think we should take him if the opportunity arises. Which it seems like it won't, unless we trade up with Portland.


He's unorthodox in nature, but, I think that would fit well here ...it's my gut feeling on this kid. So much of a players ultimate success or failure in the league comes with what team he lands on ... but, I think the Cavs and CDR would be a fit for the two ....is my opinion viewed the same with the deep thikers in the organization ? They like him ..maybe not as much as I.

TruBuckeye22
06-21-2008, 06:05 PM
someone on the around the NBA forum brought this guys name up and I brought this up on another thread but got no responce but what do people think about a smaller move like Damon Jones for John Salmons? nothing earth shattering but Salmons did play well for the Kings while guys like Artest and Bibby were injured and could help the Cavaliers as a SG/SF. he is signed for 3 more years at 5.1, 5.4, and 5.8 which seems a bit excessive but wouldn't be a bad player to have if the Kings would do it for Jone's expiring.

I guess it wouldn't be a move that needed to be made if the Cavs come away with a wing in the draft who can help early on.

TruBuckeye22
06-21-2008, 06:40 PM
come to think of it I think I don't like my own trade idea LOL.

aaronr
06-21-2008, 08:02 PM
Don't run away from your idea so fast. Salmons is a solid player, a major upgrade over Jones. He would instantly be our second best wing player. And he can defend too.

Little Seizer
06-21-2008, 09:01 PM
Agreed. Salmons for Damon would be a no-brainer imo. I don't see it happening but I think Salmons would be a good piece, potentially a starter for this team. Damon doesn't play at all.

tedginnjr
06-21-2008, 09:04 PM
Agreed. Salmons for Damon would be a no-brainer imo. I don't see it happening but I think Salmons would be a good piece, potentially a starter for this team. Damon doesn't play at all.

It would give us another player that's signed through Lebron's first extension year, which we probably don't want so we have flexibility that offseason.

aaronr
06-21-2008, 11:16 PM
I hear you on the flexibility point. I guess the issue is whether we're going to build a decent team around Lebron by adding a group of solid players seriatum (like Jones for Salmons) or in one fell swoop with a handful of expirings that land us the big enchilada. Who knows what the best approach is? I've always liked Salmons, and getting him this way wouldn't reduce our "big enchilada" probabilities all that much.

tedginnjr
06-22-2008, 03:18 AM
On a sidenote...

I was just thinking how depressing it was that we had an opportunity to sign all the talent we wanted 3 years ago in free agency... if it was this year we could pick from Arenas, Elton Brand, etc...

...and who did we get out of it?... Larry Hughes, Donyelle Marshall, and Damon Jones.

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Rick Astley
06-22-2008, 08:07 AM
Well, Ted I'm thinking we didn't have enough resources to sign such players back then. And the LeBron we have right now isn't the LeBron back then. I can imagine good players back then not wanting to play beside Lebron thinking they're better than him and he's just another overrated punk who was glorified by the mainstream media.

Now I really hope all of that changes.

TruBuckeye22
06-22-2008, 02:25 PM
Don't run away from your idea so fast. Salmons is a solid player, a major upgrade over Jones. He would instantly be our second best wing player. And he can defend too.


it is a clear talent upgrade which I would like but the more I think about it I am not sure the 15 plus mil over the next 3 years is a good value.