PDA

View Full Version : Wally: The Trade Chip? .......or not?



Thunder
09-13-2008, 08:56 PM
Cleveland To Use Szczerbiak As Trade Chip?
Sep 13, 2008 8:11 PM EST

http://www.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Szczerbiak_Wally_cle.jpg

After signing Delonte West to a new contract, the Cavaliers could use sharpshooter Wally Szczerbiak as a trade chip, according to Cleveland Plain Dealer.

Szczerbiak's contract has one year and $13 million left on it.

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/54388/20080913/cleveland_to_use_szczerbiak_as_trade_chip/

OK, so we all have been thinking and talking about this for many, many months now. There's probably something about this in almost every Cavs related thread. So with the season looming closer and closer, and training camp to start in a couple weeks, let's make this the official "Wally for (SG/PF)" thread. This thread will probably be about 145 pages by the time the trade (or lack of) happens.

So let's discuss:

Will Wally be packaged in a trade for VC? Or are the Nets after LeBron that badly and don't want them to gain more talent?

Will he be traded for some other SG, or a PF?

Who's even available that is talented and demands attention and is a proven scorer?

Which teams will tank and make their all-star/superstar/near all-star (Mo Will) available?

Will Wally be even traded? He could regain confidence esp. with a starting spot, come through for us and become the scorer he was just 2 seasons ago, and be the SG we needed all along...someone who won't be a star but a roleplayer and shooter who fits in nicely with the system and help us with the one goal we had since LeBron James was drafted in 2003...the championship.

I have faith in Ferry, whether he makes a trade or not. Let's go Cleveland!

sam_slam911
09-13-2008, 09:13 PM
If Wally didnt have a huge expiring contract I'd be talkin about how he'll be having a comeback season ths year and how we need to keep him.

But as long as there is a team with a bad record at mid-season tha will trade their all-star (someone like Wallace or Joe Johnson) for a package involving Wally, he'll be gone. And theres a pretty good chance that a few teams will be in that position.

I love Wally and I really do think hes capable of having a really great year this year, but dont think he will because of his contract. Hes a "confidence" guy.

So hes either gonna spend the first half of the season thinkning his team dont want him and are gonna dump him in February (so he'll shoot horribly) OR he'll see this as an oppurtunity to provev hes not just an expiring contract so that we either dont trade him (not likely) or his next team re-sign him.

And its always possible we trade him and he gets waived and we sign him again with the MLE.

So in short. I love Wally and wish him all the best...but his asss is gone sometime this year. But maybe it could be back here again if he gets waived.

Thunder
09-13-2008, 09:15 PM
LOL, that'd be so great if we resigned him in the summer on the cheap. As much guards we have he'd be a great backup to Delonte/Boobie.

samtheman67
09-13-2008, 09:19 PM
I honestly think we wont make anymore trades... I think wallys drive and passion along with the resurgence of Sasha and the unknown of Kinsley will solidy our 2 spot.. with Offense and defense... imagine mo driving passing to lebron driving again while boobie and wally just sit on that 3 line mmhmm

Splitz
09-13-2008, 09:22 PM
As long as whoever we get in return has great hair.

-Akronite-
09-13-2008, 09:39 PM
The reason he and Varajao aren't gone yet is because Ferry wants to see how they produce and then make a deal at the deadline to put us over the top based on that.

If the Cavs are having a great season and Wally is a big part of that, there's no reason to send him off. But I could see him and AV out of here for an above average PF or SG.

I think most will agree based on our depth from PG to SF that we need a real post player and PF is our biggest problem with an old man and a rookie at the helm.

Hopefully Ferry can get us a high quality player with the expirings, young talent, and picks we have. If we are already looking sharp, might as well try to use those same exact things to our advantage later. If we need a boost, guess who's the fuel.

abuC
09-13-2008, 09:51 PM
Hopefully Wallace is available, I really dont want to see VC join the Cavs.

If the right trade is there they should go for it, if not just let him expire and try to move Ben Wallace's contract next year.

Typhoon
09-13-2008, 09:52 PM
13 MIL FOR 1 YR?

thats "Star" player money

Silky Smooth
09-13-2008, 11:13 PM
wally av and a couple 1st rounders for joe johnson would be a great deal.

PIP
09-13-2008, 11:21 PM
Oh how I long for the coming days of Wally flying off a Ben Wallace down screen, curling, and hitting that wide open jumper...

SWISH---->FIST PUMP-----> VICTORY

I'm excited..
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f55/chads7/movies/cap003anchorman.jpg

RchfldCavRaised
09-13-2008, 11:31 PM
You cant go wrong with more and more Anchor Man references!

cavsfanclanman
09-13-2008, 11:43 PM
I don't know how much it matters if Wally plays good or not since he costs too much money to be a bench player, as he's really a 3 and not a 2. He's just not quick enough these days.

I hope he does well, but I just don't know.

It's an interesting question about what to do, sg or pf/c? I think only the season will tell. I"m not sure I would trade Wally for both (meaning a 2 good players, instead of 1 all star) but only time will tell.

Radar
09-13-2008, 11:43 PM
Wally a** is grass :D

So my list would be this:

SG:mike miller,rip hamilton(less likely,i know) or joe johnson...
i wouldn't mind vc neither

PF:al jefferson

Sorry to say but wally doesn't fit here...He can't dribble,has no elevation to shoot off the dribble,can't create for himself,at times struggles with his jumper & when that happens he has NO other way to contribute:confused:,slow defender,is OVERPAID & his OLD :thumbdown

-Akronite-
09-13-2008, 11:51 PM
Wally's a** is grass :D

So this would be my list:

SG:
Mike Miller
Rip Hamilton (less likely, I know)
Joe Johnson

I wouldn't mind VC either.

PF:
Al Jefferson

Sorry to say but wally doesn't fit here... He can't dribble, he has no elevation to shoot off the dribble, he can't create for himself, and at times struggles with his jumper. When that happens he has NO other way to contribute:confused: He is also a slow defender, he's OVERPAID & he is OLD. :thumbdown

Fixed.

BTW, editing doesn't take that long. Please be considerate of my eyes next time you post.

Scuzzy
09-14-2008, 12:02 AM
Wally have no bad time in Cleveland this year

When Wally find stroke this season you smile

Wally love you long time

JimmyJazz
09-14-2008, 12:20 AM
Wally will and should be traded for a piece that can help us win. As for AV, as our roster sits right now, I do not see AV getting traded, we need AV. Our bigs are OLD. Unless of course we acquire a big down the road.

Eddie
09-14-2008, 01:59 AM
The cavs are gonna wait and see whats out there, and if there is nobody worth getting than we will keep wally until he expires.

kookoo
09-14-2008, 03:26 AM
wally av and a couple 1st rounders for joe johnson would be a great deal.

Id pass on that because Z cant stay at the c for 40+ minutes a game and av is the only real backup. I think we can only give up people from sg.

Wally World
09-14-2008, 10:08 AM
I'm excited......IF Wally stays,i knows that we will see Wally World and everyone will love him....If he gonna be traded i would like Bucks....Then i can enjoy in Ridnour-Wally show....We will see....

Pioneer10
09-14-2008, 10:53 AM
Wally facts:
age 30
injuries: lots of them recently
production: declined
contract: huge and ending
his best position: SF
The Cavs best position: SF
Other perimeter players: Cavs have a ton of them now

Combine all that and it becomes very unlikely that Wally stays even if he performs well. If the Cavs for example decide not to trade them, considering his age and the fact they want as little as possible on the books for Lebron's FA year, will not give him a long term contract. I don't see Wally at his age signing a short term deal (1-2 years), this is his last chance to pad the retirement fund.

rjgraca
09-14-2008, 11:53 AM
RealGM is good at posting the obvious stories.

The better Wally plays the more he's worth as an expiring, but unless it's a gift like deal like the Lakers got last season with Gasol -- it just might be worth keeping him if he's giving Lebron Valuable rest on the Bench during games (8 to 10 minutes) and averaging about 15 ppg. The Luxury tax reduction would be significant too for next season. Well, at least that's the offical spin of the CAVs FO.

He's probably gone if they get a star type player in return near the trade deadline which is most likely. By that time teams in the tank like the Bucks might be looking to make a trade.

Thanks for Anchor Man references and Pics!

Jon
09-14-2008, 12:29 PM
No one gets traded unless we get something reasonable back in return - even if they're begging to be moved.

Damon wanted out, but we held on to him until he helped us bring back Mo.

Larry wanted out, but we didn't just cut him. He was part of one of the biggest trades in NBA history.

Andy, Sasha, and Wally will be on the block - but if they can't bring back something valuable, Ferry won't trade them. Our payroll is already huge and they likely will help us this season.

TruBuckeye22
09-14-2008, 12:52 PM
No one gets traded unless we get something reasonable back in return - even if they're begging to be moved.

I agree they aren't going to trade him just to trade him...the Cavs will have to get good value back.


Wally a** is grass

So my list would be this:

SG:mike miller,rip hamilton(less likely,i know) or joe johnson...
i wouldn't mind vc neither

PF:al jefferson



just wondering if you could explain to me the logic Minnesota would use to make them want to not only trade Al Jefferson but do it for Wally? :weirdo:

could we please try to live in the real world?

Hydroponic3385
09-14-2008, 12:58 PM
These are guys I think that MAY be available at the right price near the deadline. Listing these guys doesn't necessarily mean the Cavs would have interest, or that the Cavs would have what it takes to get them. And obviously, a good number of these players won't end up available (cuz their teams will be doing well), and there'll be some players who become available that none of us would've expected prior to the season:

--E. Okafor, J. O'Neal, M. Camby, E. Curry, A. Kirilenko, D. Lee, U. Haslem, B. Miller, Z. Randolph, A. Harrington, J. Pryzbilla, Nene, K. Martin
--J. Johnson, G. Wallace, M. Miller, M. Redd, S. Jackson, T. Outlaw, V. Carter, JR Smith

So if I were to guess, the Cavs would be acquiring one or some of those players for Wally & others.

Radar
09-14-2008, 01:08 PM
I agree they aren't going to trade him just to trade him...the Cavs will have to get good value back.



just wondering if you could explain to me the logic Minnesota would use to make them want to not only trade Al Jefferson but do it for Wally? :weirdo:

could we please try to live in the real world?

I had just listed those players just for who i would like to have not to actually propose a trade that includes wally...It is just a list for who I want

MYoung23
09-14-2008, 01:24 PM
The Cavaliers are not going to stop looking for ways to improve the team. If they can find a trade that works for them to get a really good player then Szczerbiak is gone.

Goggles11
09-14-2008, 02:02 PM
http://espn.starwave.com/i/magazine/new/payton_szczerbiak.jpg

http://media.canada.com/1fd7df5f-ce32-4170-8bbe-95bbc214da27/wally0516.jpg

http://slamonline.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/wally-zoolander.jpg

http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/dda4effc72_wally05092008.jpg

http://blog.cleveland.com/sports/2008/04/medium_wally1.jpg


We CAN'T get rid of Wally :(

Mdog1
09-14-2008, 06:18 PM
I would love to get Tayshaun Prince, although I see this as very unlikely I would still love to have him. Another Piston's player I'd like to have is Sheed, good shot, good D and can actually play in the post. Joe Johnson would be absolutely amazing to and expires just in time for 2010.

Now I know nobody thinks Melo will be available, but I believe that when Denver decides to rebuild he is the player that will bring back the most in return. If they do decide to rebuild than there is no reason to trade AI as many think. They already traded Camby for scraps, and there is no reason to trade AI's 20mil expiring, and if we traded Wally a first rounder, and Snow for Melo and Steven Hunter that gets us more frontcourt depth and gets us a premier scorer. Move LBJ to SG and play Melo at the 3, or LBJ at the 3 and Melo at the four.

Why Denver does it: With Wally, and Snow they have $54,697,281 in expiring contracts. They would be huge players in next years FA class. (listed here) http://www.stopmikelupica.com/2007/12/nba_salary_cap_analysis_part_1.php

Why we do it: We get Melo and a young C in Hunter. We also get another 2010 expiring although with Melo that makes the 2010 FA useless for us.

Maybe Chris Kaman from the Clippers, Mike Miller from Minnesota, VC from NJN, or Brad Miller from Sacramento.

That raps up my list of people I think could be available at the deadline. As someone previously said there may be others, but at this moment in time this is the way I see things going down (teams places were all taken into consideration when I made this list. The list is based on players from teams I see going in no direction but down).

Karma
09-14-2008, 06:42 PM
Basically Wally is a trade chip every day till the deadline. He has a valuable contract for a salary dumping team. Now this wont really come up till near the deadline, so we are likely to have him for the first 3-4 months. Being a contender I doubt we just play him to up his value, and with him being an ending contract, teams wont care too much about his form just his ending contract.

Also this isn't a thread for fantasy trades either, so lets not go there.

-Akronite-
09-14-2008, 06:49 PM
I seriously doubt that Wally, Snow, and a pick is the best offer they could get for Melo in the entire NBA, especially when you're scenario has us asking for more.

Unless their GM is drunk, I don't see it happening.

Although I'll be the first to say that landing Melo would make me poop in a sock.

Mdog1
09-14-2008, 07:09 PM
Although I'll be the first to say that landing Melo would make me poop in a sock.

I don't think that we have the best to offer. A lot of other teams will like NY, NJN and Milwakee will have better things to offer (not the only ones just examples) They will all have top ten picks, big expirings and young talent. I just don't think it will be 100% impossible to get Melo and a championship at the deadline. I do have one problem with the teams like NY, etc and that is that they are in rebuilding mode, and for the most part more than one piece away, although Melo is a good player, it will take more than just him to make most teams contenders. Therefore I just don't see them trading for Melo. That is where the Cavs come in.

The best possibility that I can think of off of the top of my head is Portland. They have Raef Lafrentz coming off of the books this season which will be enough combined with a filler who also expires and a first round pick to get Melo. Then Portlad would have a beavy of young talent, and pose a serious threat in the playoffs. This scenario still allows for Denver to have their cap space next season, and also two first rounders to start rebuilding.

Radar
09-14-2008, 08:37 PM
I would love to get Tayshaun Prince, although I see this as very unlikely I would still love to have him. Another Piston's player I'd like to have is Sheed, good shot, good D and can actually play in the post. Joe Johnson would be absolutely amazing to and expires just in time for 2010.

Now I know nobody thinks Melo will be available, but I believe that when Denver decides to rebuild he is the player that will bring back the most in return. If they do decide to rebuild than there is no reason to trade AI as many think. They already traded Camby for scraps, and there is no reason to trade AI's 20mil expiring, and if we traded Wally a first rounder, and Snow for Melo and Steven Hunter that gets us more frontcourt depth and gets us a premier scorer. Move LBJ to SG and play Melo at the 3, or LBJ at the 3 and Melo at the four.

Why Denver does it: With Wally, and Snow they have $54,697,281 in expiring contracts. They would be huge players in next years FA class. (listed here) http://www.stopmikelupica.com/2007/12/nba_salary_cap_analysis_part_1.php

Why we do it: We get Melo and a young C in Hunter. We also get another 2010 expiring although with Melo that makes the 2010 FA useless for us.

Maybe Chris Kaman from the Clippers, Mike Miller from Minnesota, VC from NJN, or Brad Miller from Sacramento.

That raps up my list of people I think could be available at the deadline. As someone previously said there may be others, but at this moment in time this is the way I see things going down (teams places were all taken into consideration when I made this list. The list is based on players from teams I see going in no direction but down).

to start off,i would take rip or prince from detroit...sheed is a whiner & is always arguing so i would pass on him

next,i doubt denver will ever give up melo so easy....why i say that is because,they may also participate in the 2010 FA & keeping melo is one step forward...IMO,AI is like next one out in denver

Mdog1
09-14-2008, 08:49 PM
to start off,i would take rip or prince from detroit...sheed is a whiner & is always arguing so i would pass on him

next,i doubt denver will ever give up melo so easy....why i say that is because,they may also participate in the 2010 FA & keeping melo is one step forward...IMO,AI is like next one out in denver

If you read my next post you will see that I did mention that other teams can offer more for Melo than we can.

Mdog1
09-14-2008, 11:52 PM
to start off,i would take rip or prince from detroit...sheed is a whiner & is always arguing so i would pass on him

next,i doubt denver will ever give up melo so easy....why i say that is because,they may also participate in the 2010 FA & keeping melo is one step forward...IMO,AI is like next one out in denver

But why not let him expire, and take a risk in free agency if they don't want to get rid of Melo? And then if they have no luck in the 2009FA then keep there money, and sign a whole bunch of one year deals to complete the roster so that they only have Melo, KMart, Nene, and J.R Smith for a total of like 30 some million.

I get the point of trading AI to a winning team for some picks, and some young talent, kind of like the opposite of what the Cavs are going to do. Not to many teams are going to want to take on AI though, he has a huge contract, no guarantee that he will resign and there is also no guarantee that a team will take him at the deadline, because most teams that would want expirings are rebuilding teams, not teams that are on pace for the championship.

Jon
09-15-2008, 02:15 AM
It's unlikely we could cut down enough salary to be a player in free-agency next year unless Andy opts-out, we buy out Sasha's 3rd year, and Z decides to retire. All roads lead to 2010 right now, which is why we need to get top notch value for our expirings, because if we turn our expirings in to long-term contracts - we may not have enough cap space left to do anything significant in 2010.

PsyCHOTiC
09-15-2008, 11:08 AM
I would think Wally would be traded for a fringe starter/backup power forward that has a big or long deal and a young center prospect.

Lee
09-15-2008, 11:38 AM
It's unlikely we could cut down enough salary to be a player in free-agency next year unless Andy opts-out, we buy out Sasha's 3rd year, and Z decides to retire. All roads lead to 2010 right now, which is why we need to get top notch value for our expirings, because if we turn our expirings in to long-term contracts - we may not have enough cap space left to do anything significant in 2010.

Exactly, that is why I wouldnt be suprised if we let some of our expirings expire. This year we have wally and snow and most likely av. Next year we have Ben, pavs and technically Z. If the big time player becomes available we jump on it, but there is definetely no gurentee that someone will want our expirings for an allstar level player, expecially if we want a big man. Gassal type deals are rare.

Wes
09-15-2008, 12:47 PM
I also could see the Cavs just letting some of their high-dollar contracts expire before 2010, thereby getting as far under the cap as they can. This means that if they trade a contract like Wally's, it will most likely not be for a player that is signed long term, unless they are able to get a young, in-his-prime, all-star level talent in return.

I also think that trading Wally's contract may prove to be much easier than trading Ben Wallace's contract. It looks to me like Ben is aging fast, and I don't know what team would want him in Feb. of 2010, unless they are drastically rebuilding. Of course, the flip-side of that is the strength of the 2010 free agent class. With guys like Bosh, Wade, and James potentially available, Ferry's phone could be ringing off the hook with teams looking to get a huge expiring like Wallace's in order to get under the cap and make a run at a free agent star.

Mdog1
09-15-2008, 12:55 PM
I also could see the Cavs just letting some of their high-dollar contracts expire before 2010, thereby getting as far under the cap as they can. This means that if they trade a contract like Wally's, it will most likely not be for a player that is signed long term, unless they are able to get a young, in-his-prime, all-star level talent in return.

I also think that trading Wally's contract may prove to be much easier than trading Ben Wallace's contract. It looks to me like Ben is aging fast, and I don't know what team would want him in Feb. of 2010, unless they are drastically rebuilding. Of course, the flip-side of that is the strength of the 2010 free agent class. With guys like Bosh, Wade, and James potentially available, Ferry's phone could be ringing off the hook with teams looking to get a huge expiring like Wallace's in order to get under the cap and make a run at a free agent star.

That is why I think tradin Wally's contract will also be very easy.The 2009 FA class will also be very coveted wiht aging stars such as Kobe, Steve Nash and many other good players. Mind you that those two players both have options for that season and could both be 2010FA's as well.

kblade
09-15-2008, 01:04 PM
what about getting a small forward for wally and putting bron at the two. That would help out our small back court. Or start pavs at the three and tell him to shoot threes any time he gets it.

sam_slam911
09-15-2008, 01:08 PM
If we got someone like Gerald Wallace LeBron would probably play at the 2.

sjeppe
09-15-2008, 01:26 PM
kobe and lebron wow that would be a dream

Jon
09-15-2008, 01:39 PM
I also think that trading Wally's contract may prove to be much easier than trading Ben Wallace's contract.

Actually, I think Ben is tradeable this season. He's still owed $28.5m over the next two years, but that'll come down by the trade deadline and any team that wants to dump some bigger, longer contracts could be interested - especially if they're angling to have cap space in 2010.

For instance, we traded for Wally knowing he had another year on his contract.

It doesn't even matter how well he's playing. The potential for overall $$$ saved and his 2010 expiring contract have value.

What you'd want to look for is player making $14+ per year for 3+ years.

Some players who qualify (albeit their teams may not be interested) include: Bryant, Duncan, Nowitzki, Pierce, Rashard Lewis, Mike Redd, AK47, Gasol, Ming, Stoudemire, Randolph, Arenas, and Bosh.

Since you also need a crappy team, or a team looking to re-build, or a player that doesn't fit well, or a penny pincher that pretty much cuts the candidate list way down arguably leaving Redd, AK47, and Zach - but who knows? Circumstances change.

Lee
09-15-2008, 01:47 PM
Actually, I think Ben is tradeable this season. He's still owed $28.5m over the next two years, but that'll come down by the trade deadline and any team that wants to dump some bigger, longer contracts could be interested - especially if they're angling to have cap space in 2010.

For instance, we traded for Wally knowing he had another year on his contract.

It doesn't even matter how well he's playing. The potential for overall $$$ saved and his 2010 expiring contract have value.

What you'd want to look for is player making $14+ per year for 3+ years.

Some players who qualify (albeit their teams may not be interested) include: Bryant, Duncan, Nowitzki, Pierce, Rashard Lewis, Mike Redd, AK47, Gasol, Ming, Stoudemire, Randolph, Arenas, and Bosh.

Since you also need a crappy team, or a team looking to re-build, or a player that doesn't fit well, or a penny pincher that pretty much cuts the candidate list way down arguably leaving Redd, AK47, and Zach - but who knows? Circumstances change.


I personally dont think ak47 is a good fit here. But I have been wrong before. If he is a good fit, Ben might be a key piece, as they would be getting back a big and their front court is getting crowded as it is. Utah needs a hard working defender, and he is obviously tradebale for Utah next year puting them in better shape.

Jon
09-15-2008, 01:57 PM
And obviously most of us don't want anything to do with Zach, but I was just working through the list to see who might qualify.

Yeah, Ben might be able to toughen up Utah's front court, but the main thing I think in dealing Wallace would be the overall $$$ saved for the other team, his soon to be expiring status, and of course whatever else we threw in to sweeten the pot.

mixman
09-15-2008, 02:00 PM
And obviously most of us don't want anything to do with Zach, but I was just working through the list to see who might qualify.

Yeah, Ben might be able to toughen up Utah's front court, but the main thing I think in dealing Wallace would be the overall $$$ saved for the other team, his soon to be expiring status, and of course whatever else we threw in to sweeten the pot.

Ben wouldn't work for Utah because Utah wants to save money in the '09 offseason so they can resign boozer. Wally gives them that, Ben doesn't.

Jon
09-15-2008, 02:09 PM
Ben wouldn't work for Utah because Utah wants to save money in the '09 offseason so they can resign boozer. Wally gives them that, Ben doesn't.

Sure, but that assumes they have a prayer to re-sign him.

You'd think he has the perfect situation in Utah, but everyone thought he had that in Cleveland.

Anyway, Wally is definitely a more valuable expiring than Ben, but Wally would save them something like $36m and that's way too much to pay for AK47 who's not even close to being a franchise player even though he's paid like one.

mixman
09-15-2008, 02:21 PM
Sure, but that assumes they have a prayer to re-sign him.

You'd think he has the perfect situation in Utah, but everyone thought he had that in Cleveland.

Anyway, Wally is definitely a more valuable expiring than Ben, but Wally would save them something like $36m and that's way too much to pay for AK47 who's not even close to being a franchise player even though he's paid like one.

Aaah so true. For a second there a forgot who we were talking about. :chuckles:

TruBuckeye22
09-15-2008, 02:58 PM
I had just listed those players just for who i would like to have not to actually propose a trade that includes wally...It is just a list for who I want

gotcha...in then case I am in 100% agreement, Jefferson would be a nice addition.

Lee
09-15-2008, 02:58 PM
And obviously most of us don't want anything to do with Zach, but I was just working through the list to see who might qualify.

Yeah, Ben might be able to toughen up Utah's front court, but the main thing I think in dealing Wallace would be the overall $$$ saved for the other team, his soon to be expiring status, and of course whatever else we threw in to sweeten the pot.

I know you where just mentioning names, but ak47 popped out at me as the most obtainable that we might actually want. Not sure if it helps, Plus, does Lithuania and Russia get along this week? Dont neeed any internal civil wars. :chuckles:

Wine and Gold
09-15-2008, 03:34 PM
Actually, I think Ben is tradeable this season. He's still owed $28.5m over the next two years, but that'll come down by the trade deadline and any team that wants to dump some bigger, longer contracts could be interested - especially if they're angling to have cap space in 2010.

For instance, we traded for Wally knowing he had another year on his contract.

It doesn't even matter how well he's playing. The potential for overall $$$ saved and his 2010 expiring contract have value.

What you'd want to look for is player making $14+ per year for 3+ years.

Some players who qualify (albeit their teams may not be interested) include: Bryant, Duncan, Nowitzki, Pierce, Rashard Lewis, Mike Redd, AK47, Gasol, Ming, Stoudemire, Randolph, Arenas, and Bosh.

Since you also need a crappy team, or a team looking to re-build, or a player that doesn't fit well, or a penny pincher that pretty much cuts the candidate list way down arguably leaving Redd, AK47, and Zach - but who knows? Circumstances change.


AK47 would be a player that I would keep an eye on. I know he doesn't come off as being all that great a pick up, but, I think coming to this team, the way it's constituted ...and what Mike Brown would want and expect from him ...and what we do need as a team, he could concievably be a fit if we can't find anything better to pull the trigger on.

He's one of the players I have on my "possibility" radar ....but, I'll be anxious to watch his game this season and see where it is at. Wally will be in numerous trade proposals, so we won't be short on options for him. And one real option is that we do just let his contract expire, if we do gain some real benefits from his game this season, and solid offers for his contract aren't to our liking.

Thunder
09-15-2008, 03:46 PM
Thanks for that info W & G. I still wouldn't want him to just expire unless we atleast resign him to a short, cheap deal if he plays well. Who knows, maybe AK will become disgruntled again (unless he still is). He'd be a good fit and he can play the 3/4 while LeBron plays the 2/3. AK also is a great playmaker, he can play point forward like LeBron too. Actually looking over the NBA right now, I see AK/NY big men/VC as possibilities. If Bobcats tank Okafor would be a bad pickup for us, his contract is huge.

TruBuckeye22
09-15-2008, 03:52 PM
the thing that stands out to me about the trade deadline during the 08-09 season is at this point there doesn't seem to be the rumors floating around on big name guys like this past season. Gasol and Kidd weren't really a surprise when it came down to it because there were talks of Kidd to the Lakers and the Bulls having interesting Gasol. now the Shaq thing with the Suns kind of came out of left field as did the Cavs move that brought Wally to town in the 1st place. it will be interesting to see how things materialize as we move into Feb.

It would be nice if the Hawks ended up willing to trade Joe Johnson but coming off a playoff season and while they did lose Childress they should still be in the playoff hunt in the East so I don't know this would happen. even if they did I would guess they would be looking for a package more along the lines of Hickson and future picks then a big expiring in Wally. ass it is they only have about 23 million in salary on the books for next 09/10.

I still think that Mike Miller could be an option...although the T-Wolves only have around 41 mil on the books for 09/10 so they could just decide to hold on to Miller being that his salary won't hurt them and he will be one of their better players.

A lot of people have mentioned Gerald Wallace as a possible target. he would clearly be an upgrade in talent on the Cavs roster but I wonder how well he would fit both on the court and on the books. he is very athletic and a solid defender but his best position is SF which happens to be where LeBron James plays. if you move Wallace out to the 2 then you lose out on his rebounding which is a big part of his value as one of the better rebounding SFs. plus his game offensively doesn't seem to mesh....he will never be a guy who I would trust to spot up and knock down jumpers on a LeBron or Mo drive and dish. basically the Cavs would be paying Wallace 9, 9.8, 10.6, and 11.4 over the next 4 years to just be a defender on the wing and the occasional dunk on a fast break. doesn't seem like a good use of cap space. plus the Bobcats aren't a team that is in cap trouble where they need to unload one of their few good players for an expiring deal. If I were running the Bobcats and the Cavs called asking for Wallace(or Richardson for that matter) I don't want any Wally at all, what I want is Hickson, Gibson, future 1st rd picks. they will never be able to build a winner if they go and trade what little talent they have for expiring deals.

in the end they may end up looking for a big but if they do try and acquire a wing IMO one of the big things they will need from that guy is someone who can spot up and consistantly knock down jumpers off of drive and kicks. finding a guy like that who is also a good perimeter defender could be tough.

for fun here is a list of the dealine deals going back to 87


NBA Trading Deadline Trades Since 1987
Feb. 21, 2008 (Five trades involving 22 players)


CHICAGO traded Ben Wallace, Joe Smith and a 2009 second round draft pick to CLEVELAND for Drew Gooden, Larry Hughes, Shannon Brown and Cedric Simmons; CHICAGO traded Adrian Griffin to SEATTLE; CLEVELAND traded Donyell Marshall and Ira Newble to SEATTLE; SEATTLE traded Wally Szczerbiak and Delonte West to CLEVELAND

PORTLAND acquired G Von Wafer from DENVER in exchange for G Taurean Green

MINNESOTA acquired G Kirk Snyder, a 2010 second-round draft pick and cash from HOUSTON in exchange for G Gerald Green

DETROIT acquired G Juan Dixon from TORONTO for C Primoz Brezec
NEW ORLEANS acquired G/F Bonzi Wells, G Mike James, and cash from HOUSTON for G Adam Haluska, G Bobby Jackson, F Marcus Vinicius and a 2008 second round pick; MEMPHIS will receive Vinicius, the rights to Malick Badiane and cash in exchange for the rights to Sergei Lishouk


Feb. 22, 2007 (Three trades involving four players)


TORONTO traded G Fred Jones to PORTLAND for G Juan Dixon

PHILADELPHIA traded F/C Alan Henderson to Utah in exchange for each team's second-round pick

DALLAS traded guard Anthony Johnson to ATLANTA for a second-round draft pick

Feb. 23, 2006 (Five trades involving nine players)

Feb. 23, 2006 (Five trades involving 17 players)

SEATTLE acquired Earl Watson, Bryon Russell, a 2008 second-round pick and cash from DENVER, which acquired Reggie Evans from SEATTLE, and Ruben Patterson and Charles Smith from PORTLAND, which acquired Voshon Lenard from DENVER and Brian Skinner from SACRAMENTO, which Vitaly Potapenko from SEATTLE and Sergei Monia from PORTLAND.

SEATTLE traded Ronald Murray to CLEVELAND fro Mike Wilks and cash

NEW ORLEANS acquired Marc Jackson, Linton Johnson and cash from NEW JERSEY for Bostjan Nachbar

MIAMI acquired Derek Anderson from HOUSTON for Gerald Fitch

CLEVELAND acquired Lee Nailon and a 2006 second-round pick from PHILADELPHIA for a conditional 2006 second-round pick.


Feb. 24, 2005 (10 trades involving 29 players)


BOSTON traded F Jiri Welsch to CLEVELAND in exchange for a future first-round draft pick.

NEW ORLEANS traded F Jamal Mashburn and F Rodney Rogers to PHILADELPHIA in exchange for F Glenn Robinson.

MILWAUKEE traded G Mike James and C Zendon Hamilton to HOUSTON in exchange for G Reece Gaines and a 2006 and 2007 second-round draft pick.

MILWAUKEE traded F Keith Van Horn to DALLAS in exchange for C Calvin Booth, F/C Alan Henderson and cash.

HOUSTON traded F Maurice Taylor to NEW YORK in exchange for F Vin Baker, G Moochie Norris and a 2006 second-round draft pick.

ATLANTA traded F Antoine Walker and cash to BOSTON in exchange for G Gary Payton, F Tom Gugliotta, C Michael Stewart, and a future first-round pick.

NEW ORLEANS traded G Baron Davis to GOLDEN STATE in exchange for C/F Dale Davis, G Speedy Claxton and cash.

NEW YORK traded C Nazr Mohammed and G Jamison Brewer to SAN ANTONIO for F Malik Rose, two future first-round picks, and cash.

CHARLOTTE traded G/F Steve Smith to MIAMI in exchange for F Malik Allen and cash.

DENVER traded F Nikoloz Tskitishvili and F Rodney White to GOLDEN STATE for F Eduardo Najera, G Luis Flores, and a future first-round pick.

February 19, 2004 (Four trades involving 13 players)


DETROIT traded G Lindsey Hunter, Chucky Atkins its 2004 first round pick and cash to BOSTON in exchange for G Mike James while sending C Zeljko Rebraca, G Bob Sura and a first round pick (pick will come from Milwaukee if the Bucks qualify for the playoffs) to ATLANTA in exchange for F/C Rasheed Wallace

ORLANDO traded G Gordan Giricek to UTAH for DeShawn Stevenson and a conditional second round draft pick.

ORLANDO traded G Shammond Williams to NEW ORLEANS in exchange for C Sean Rooks.

PHOENIX traded F Tom Gugliotta, two conditional first round picks, a 2005 second round draft pick and cash to UTAH in exchange for F/C Keon Clark and F/C Ben Handlogten.

Feb. 20, 2003 (Three trades involving 10 players)


BOSTON traded Shammond Williams, a 2003 second-round draft pick and cash cash considerations to DENVER for Mark Blount and Mark Bryant.

NEW ORLEANS traded Elden Campbell to SEATTLE for Kenny Anderson and cash considerations.

SEATTLE traded Gary Payton and Desmond Mason to MILWAUKEE for Ray Allen, Kevin Ollie, Ronald Murray, and either a 2003 first-round draft pick or two 2003 second-round draft picks.

Feb. 21, 2002 (Two trades involving nine players)


DALLAS traded Juwan Howard, Donnell Harvey, Tim Hardaway, a 2002 first round draft pick and cash consideration to DENVER in exchange for Nick Van Exel, Avery Johnson, Tariq Abdul-Wahad and Raef LaFrentz.
GOLDEN STATE traded Marc Jackson to MINNESOTA in exchange for Dean Garrett and Minnesota's 2007 second-round draft pick.

Feb. 22, 2001 (Four trades involving 22 players)


ATLANTA traded C Dikembe Mutombo and F Roshown McLeod to PHILADELPHIA in exchange for C Theo Ratliff, F Toni Kukoc, C Nazr Mohammed and G Pepe Sanchez.
TORONTO traded G Mark Jackson and G Muggsy Bogues to NEW YORK in exchange for G Chris Childs and the Knicks' lottery-protected first-round pick.
WASHINGTON traded F Juwan Howard, C Obinna Ekezie and F Calvin Booth to DALLAS for F Christian Laettner, F Loy Vaught, F Etan Thomas, G Hubert Davis and G Courtney Alexander.
TORONTO traded F Corliss Williamson, F Tyrone Corbin, F Kornel David and a first-round pick to DETROIT for F Jerome Williams and C Eric Montross.

Feb. 24, 2000 (One trade involving one player)


ATLANTA traded G Anthony Johnson to ORLANDO in exchange for a conditional second-round draft choice.

March 11, 1999 (Five trades involving 18 players)


CLEVELAND traded F/C Vitaly Potapenko to BOSTON in exchange for F/C Andrew Declercq and a conditional 1999 first round draft pick.
HOUSTON traded G/F Rodrick Rhodes to VANCOUVER in exchange for G/F Sam Mack.
NEW YORK traded a conditional first round draft pick to PHILADELPHIA for the draft rights to F Mirsad Turkcan.
PHILADELPHIA traded F Tim Thomas and F/C Scott Williams to MILWAUKEE in exchange for F Tyrone Hill and G/F Jerald Honeycutt.
MILWAUKEE traded G Terrell Brandon to MINNESOTA and G Elliot Perry to NEW JERSEY in exchange for NEW JERSEY trading G Sam Cassell and F/C Chris Gatling to MILWAUKEE and F Brian Evans and future draft considerations to MINNESOTA in exchange for MINNESOTA trading G Chris Carr, F Bill Curley and G Stephon Marbury to NEW JERSEY and C Paul Grant to MILWAUKEE.

Feb. 19, 1998 (Four trades involving 13 players)


CHICAGO traded F Jason Caffey to GOLDEN STATE in exchange for F/C David Vaughn and 1998 and 2000 second-round draft picks.
L.A. CLIPPERS traded G Brent Barry to MIAMI in exchange for C Isaac Austin, G Charles Smith and a conditional 1998 first-round draft pick.
NEW YORK traded F Ronnie Grandison and C Herb Williams to PHILADELPHIA in exchange for F Terry Cummings.
NEW JERSEY traded F David Benoit, C Yinka Dare and G Kevin Edwards to ORLANDO in exchange for C Rony Seikaly and F Brian Evans.



CHARLOTTE acquired F Ricky Pierce from DENVER for C George Zidek and G Anthony Goldwire.
TORONTO acquired G Shawn Respert from MILWAUKEE for C Acie Earl.
DENVER acquired G Jerome Allen from INDIANA for F Darvin Ham.
GOLDEN STATE acquired G/F Scott Burrell from CHARLOTTE for F Donald Royal.
INDIANA acquired G Mark Jackson and F/C LaSalle Thompson from DENVER for G/F Vincent Askew, F Eddie Johnson and second-round draft picks in 1997 and 1998.
LAKERS acquired F George McCloud from NEW JERSEY in exchange for C Joe Kleine, a 1997 first-round pick and a conditional second-round pick.

Feb. 22, 1996 (Six trades involving 19 players)


ATLANTA acquired F Christian Laettner and C Sean Rooks from MINNESOTA in exchange for G Spud Webb and C Andrew Lang.
TORONTO acquired F Sharone Wright from PHILADELPHIA in exchange for C Ed Pinckney, F Tony Massenburg, the right to swap first-round draft picks in 1996 or 1997 and a second-round option.
PHOENIX acquired G Terrence Rencher from MIAMI in exchange for G Tony Smith.
MIAMI acquired G Tim Hardaway and F Chris Gatling from GOLDEN STATE in exchange for F Kevin Willis and G Bimbo Coles.
MIAMI acquired F Walt Williams and F Tyrone Corbin from SACRAMENTO in exchange for F Billy Owens and G Kevin Gamble.
ORLANDO acquired F Kenny Gattison and a 1996 second-round draft pick from VANCOUVER in exchange for F Jeff Turner.

Feb. 23, 1995 (One trade involving two players)


DALLAS acquired G Scott Brooks from HOUSTON in exchange for G Morlon Wiley and a 1995 second-round draft pick.

Feb. 24, 1994 (Four trades involving eight players)



CHARLOTTE acquired F Frank Brickowski and a conditional first-round draft pick from MILWAUKEE in exchange for C Mike Gminksi.
ATLANTA acquired F Danny Manning from the L.A. CLIPPERS in exchange for F Dominique Wilkins and a 1994 or 1995 conditional first-round draft pick.
LAKERS acquired F Danny Schayes from MILWAUKEE in exchange for a 1995 conditional second-round draft pick.
UTAH acquired G Jeff Hornacek, G Sean Green and a 1995 or 1996 second-round draft pick from PHILADELPHIA in exchange for G Jeff Malone and a 1994 conditional first-round draft pick.



CHICAGO acquired F Ed Nealy from GOLDEN STATE in exchange for a 2001 conditional second-round draft pick.
MILWAUKEE acquired F Orlando Woolridge from DETROIT in exchange for G Alvin Robertson.

Feb. 20, 1992 (One trade involving two players)


NEW YORK acquired C James Donaldson from DALLAS in exchange for F Brian Quinnett.

Feb. 20, 1991 (One trade involving two players)


SEATTLE acquired C Benoit Benjamin from the L.A. CLIPPERS in exchange for C Olden Polynice, a 1991 first-round draft pick and a 1993 or 1994 first-round draft pick.

Feb. 22, 1990 (Five trades involving seven players)


SAN ANTONIO acquired C Uwe Blab from GOLDEN STATE in exchange for C Christian Welp.
CLIPPERS acquired G Winston Garland from GOLDEN STATE in exchange for two future second-round draft picks.
NEW YORK acquired C Stuart Gray from CHARLOTTE in exchange for a 1991 second-round draft pick.
CHARLOTTE acquired Randolph Keys from CLEVELAND in exchange for a future second-round draft pick.
MINNESOTA acquired F Brad Sellers from SEATTLE in exchange for Steve Johnson and a 1991 second-round draft pick.

Feb. 23, 1989 (Two trades involving five players)


NEW YORK acquired F Kiki Vandeweghe from PORTLAND in exchange for a 1989 first-round draft pick.
BOSTON acquired C Joe Kleine and F Ed Pinckney from SACRAMENTO in exchange for G Danny Ainge and F Brad Lohaus.

Feb. 25, 1988 (Three trades involving nine players)


PHOENIX acquired G Kevin Johnson, F Tyrone Corbin, C Mark West, 1988 first and second-round draft picks and a 1989 second-round draft pick from CLEVELAND in exchange for F Larry Nance, F Mike Sanders and a 1988 second-round draft pick.
MILWAUKEE acquired G Jay Humphries from PHOENIX in exchange for G Craig Hodges and a 1988 second-round draft pick.
SEATTLE acquired G Sedale Threatt from CHICAGO in exchange for G Sam Vincent.

Feb. 15, 1987 (One trade involving one player)


CHICAGO acquired F Ben Poquette from CLEVELAND in exchange for a future second-round draft pick.

sam_slam911
09-15-2008, 04:32 PM
I cant see a situation where there wont be a team with a bad record at mid-season willing to trade one of their stars for our expiring contracts.

There will be a few of those teams, and we can only hope Ferry gets in first.

Karma
09-15-2008, 05:29 PM
AK47 would be a player that I would keep an eye on. I know he doesn't come off as being all that great a pick up, but, I think coming to this team, the way it's constituted ...and what Mike Brown would want and expect from him ...and what we do need as a team, he could concievably be a fit if we can't find anything better to pull the trigger on.

He's one of the players I have on my "possibility" radar ....but, I'll be anxious to watch his game this season and see where it is at. Wally will be in numerous trade proposals, so we won't be short on options for him. And one real option is that we do just let his contract expire, if we do gain some real benefits from his game this season, and solid offers for his contract aren't to our liking.

He's always been a target of mine which is useless considering my name isn't Danny Ferry. AK47 is a very good power forward, but very average small forward. To me this is why he struggles at times with Utah. When Boozer was injured there was a very big reason Utah kept winning and it wasn't soley Deron.

AK is a very athletic defender who can play off the ball and on. I just think he is an ideal fit as a player, its just his contract that makes dealing for him a touch ugly.

abuC
09-15-2008, 08:04 PM
In a perfect world Amare would join the Cavs after his team gets off to a miserable start, he complains and is traded to Clev. I can dream........

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2166/1968919182_a0eca7fbae.jpg





Ak47 would be a nice fit with the Cavs if he's allowed to play PF, his contract might be ugly but I think he'd get back to his usual production and possibly improve on it. He's not much a low post scorer though, but his skillset offensively is a nice mesh with LeBron, and he's an excellent passer.

Mdog1
09-15-2008, 09:46 PM
AK47 may actually be available at the deadline. Amare isn't really an option in my mind. The Suns are still a 50 win team even with their age. Although they are not going to win the conference, or division and are not a championship team because of their poor defense. Next season Amare may be more of an option when the window for the Suns has completely closed.

abuC
09-16-2008, 12:18 AM
AK is a very athletic defender who can play off the ball and on. I just think he is an ideal fit as a player, its just his contract that makes dealing for him a touch ugly.


I agree, however if he went back to his days of posting 15ppg, 8rpg, 4apg, 3bpg and 1spg he would be worth his contract.

JJ Smooth
09-16-2008, 01:48 AM
I'd love to have AK47 on our team. He's a versatile player that can hit shots and can demand a double team as well. The big plus to his possible acquisition is to give Lebron some rest if need be and still keep our offense moving. I haven't watche a lot of Utah Jazz games so I'm not sure on his defense capabilities, but if Coach can have Wally lock down Ray Allen I'm sure he can do wonders for others.

I saw Vince Carter's name tossed around too, but I'd be hesitant on making a deal for him. He's still an offensive threat, but we'd have to be prepared for some decline and be ready to deal with how devastating that decline could be. I'm also not sure about helping out a team with their finances as their targeting your superstar.

sam_slam911
09-16-2008, 02:38 AM
Why would Utah trade Kirilenko though? Because of a bad season (which wont happen) or because Kirilenko wants to leave?

Ocelot
09-16-2008, 07:23 AM
The situation with Wally this year brings to mind PJ Brown and the bulls. Both veteran players with large expiring contracts who fill needs for their teams. The Bulls felt that they couldn't make a run without Brown's relatively pedestrian production and overvalued the young talent they had and as a result the franchise is significantly worse off for it now.

The Cavs may not have the same caliber of offers on the table for the package they'll be offering around Wally, but if something does come along it's important that they don't make the same mistake Chicago did.

As of right now Wally is the best piece the Cavs have for improving the team before Lebron potentially opts out. Wally and AV have definite value right now and the next serious trade chips on the current roster look like Wallace along with something from the Hickson/Jackson/Kinsey group, but no one knows how tradeable any of those guys are going to be which is why it's so critical to get good value for Wally and not fall in love with the scoring he'll be bringing off the bench.

Jon
09-16-2008, 12:25 PM
Yeah, hard to believe the Bulls might have had either Garnett or Bryant if they'd been willing to part with Luol Deng and someone else like Hinrich, Gordon, or Thomas.

Eddie
09-16-2008, 12:43 PM
I like Ak47 but his contract is way to big for my liking, he is making allstar-superstar type money and i dont think he is worth it. If we are gonna bring in a contract(that large) that runs past the 2009 season it should be for a allstar-superstar caliber player who is fairly young. Other than that i would just make an attempt at Amare or Bosh in 2010.

abuC
09-16-2008, 12:51 PM
I like Ak47 but his contract is way to big for my liking, he is making allstar-superstar type money and i dont think he is worth it. If we are gonna bring in a contract(that large) that runs past the 2009 season it should be for a allstar-superstar caliber player who is fairly young. Other than that i would just make an attempt at Amare or Bosh in 2010.



AK could be an all-star, the biggest problem for him is he's been playing SF and he's just not comfortable doing it full-time. His contract is ugly for his current production, but without Boozer he routinely posted ridiculous numbers, 15, 8, 4, 3, 1. Put him in the Cavs lineup @ PF, and I think he could come close to those numbers again, if not eclipse them in some areas. It would give the Cavs another passer on the floor, and a legitimate big time shotblocker.

aaronbev79
09-16-2008, 01:23 PM
The situation with Wally this year brings to mind PJ Brown and the bulls. Both veteran players with large expiring contracts who fill needs for their teams. The Bulls felt that they couldn't make a run without Brown's relatively pedestrian production and overvalued the young talent they had and as a result the franchise is significantly worse off for it now.

The Cavs may not have the same caliber of offers on the table for the package they'll be offering around Wally, but if something does come along it's important that they don't make the same mistake Chicago did.

As of right now Wally is the best piece the Cavs have for improving the team before Lebron potentially opts out. Wally and AV have definite value right now and the next serious trade chips on the current roster look like Wallace along with something from the Hickson/Jackson/Kinsey group, but no one knows how tradeable any of those guys are going to be which is why it's so critical to get good value for Wally and not fall in love with the scoring he'll be bringing off the bench.

From what I can tell it's only fans who are falling in love with Wally's potential production -- I doubt a singe person in Cavs management is seeing Wally as anything more than a big tradeable contract. There's really no upside at all to keeping Wally -- at worst we bring in someone with his same level of productivity, but with young legs and giant upside potential for super-stardom.

Jon
09-16-2008, 01:30 PM
It's hard to say what Kirilenko's problems are, he's had so many.

Was his issue losing minutes at PF to Boozer, or was his real issue losing his role in the offense to Boozer?

I suspect the later, and if I'm right, that's not a good sign.

He actually had a good season last year, but I don't think he's ever going to earn that contract.

Soda
09-16-2008, 02:50 PM
I am fearful of the uproar that could potentially follow a productive half-season from Wally. A lot of people are going to want him to stay and help with the run, but his contract is too big and with him producing the value will be too great not to unload him. I do agree that the Cavs probably see him as a tradeable asset solely, but many people around here may jump on his side causing a tidal wave come the deadline.

aaronbev79
09-16-2008, 02:55 PM
I am fearful of the uproar that could potentially follow a productive half-season from Wally. A lot of people are going to want him to stay and help with the run, but his contract is too big and with him producing the value will be too great not to unload him. I do agree that the Cavs probably see him as a tradeable asset solely, but many people around here may jump on his side causing a tidal wave come the deadline.

I'm just glad that the Cavs management will not be swayed by the Wally tidal wave. There is no reason to keep Wally for what he is being paid -- none -- he'd have to return to his all-star numbers, but even then we'd have to take into consideration that he's past or at least near the end of his prime (depending on what he accomplishes this year). And you have to imagine that there are many players that would offer a similar productivity without all of the actual/potential negatives.

abuC
09-16-2008, 03:02 PM
It's hard to say what Kirilenko's problems are, he's had so many.

Was his issue losing minutes at PF to Boozer, or was his real issue losing his role in the offense to Boozer?

I suspect the later, and if I'm right, that's not a good sign.

He actually had a good season last year, but I don't think he's ever going to earn that contract.



I think the issue is losing the PF spot to Boozer more than anything else, he's always been more productive from the PF spot and doesnt have the speed, handle or jumpshot to play SF effectively fulltime. He doesnt like his role on offense, but it wasnt like he was taking a ton of shots before, he averaged just 11 shots per game (15.8 average) during his best offensive seasons, and is down to 7 per game now. To put it in perspective, Drew Gooden averaged 10 shots per game when he played with the Cavs.

Almost everything about his game has suffered while playing SF. I think he'd be a great fit on the Cavs, and could be an all-star seeing as he would be playing PF. He doesnt need a lot of touches to score, and what he brings on defense and what he could add to the offense are huge, he's a good enough passer that the offense could have a ton more motion. I'd take him over VC anyday of the week, and that was on the table.

Radar
09-16-2008, 03:31 PM
i am not sure if i would take AK47 because he seems more of a PF than a SF....if we take him he may take away from jj development but it all depends as the season goes on....but i know for sure if its anyone with a contract that goes past 2010 that i would take,its VC....

PIP
09-16-2008, 03:50 PM
All you people care about is winning... You people are lucky Wally has performed for you bastards.. Swishing and Dishing, and dropping 3's like it's nothing... HE'S A BASKETBALL PLAYER...His wife just had a baby.... He was just traded.... He's getting older...

LEAVE WALLY ALONE !!!!!

:bigcry:

Karma
09-16-2008, 04:03 PM
I think the issue is losing the PF spot to Boozer more than anything else, he's always been more productive from the PF spot and doesnt have the speed, handle or jumpshot to play SF effectively fulltime. He doesnt like his role on offense, but it wasnt like he was taking a ton of shots before, he averaged just 11 shots per game (15.8 average) during his best offensive seasons, and is down to 7 per game now. To put it in perspective, Drew Gooden averaged 10 shots per game when he played with the Cavs.

Almost everything about his game has suffered while playing SF. I think he'd be a great fit on the Cavs, and could be an all-star seeing as he would be playing PF. He doesnt need a lot of touches to score, and what he brings on defense and what he could add to the offense are huge, he's a good enough passer that the offense could have a ton more motion. I'd take him over VC anyday of the week, and that was on the table.

I agree 100% here. Utah definately misuse AK47, but that has just as much to do with their roster makeup to stupidity. I dont think he'll ever completely earn his contract with numbers, but I believe he'll take us back to June.

Imagine the hair battle betweem Korver and Wally if Szcerb is involved in a potential trade.

Wally World
09-16-2008, 05:15 PM
All you people care about is winning... You people are lucky Wally has performed for you bastards.. Swishing and Dishing, and dropping 3's like it's nothing... HE'S A BASKETBALL PLAYER...His wife just had a baby.... He was just traded.... He's getting older...

LEAVE WALLY ALONE !!!!!

:bigcry:

I love you man.....:thumbup::thumbup:

Randolphkeys
09-17-2008, 12:58 AM
Great, now you have made Pip's emoticon cry. This thread is getting out of hand.

Look, Wally brings a lot more to the table than just his shooting, physical strength and positional defense against slower wings... he has enriched our lives with his grooming. Split dedicated his life to rock hard abs after we traded for Wally. I learned from him what Chris Mihm couldn't teach me: how to make my hair look awesome.

Jaleel White before Wally Szczerbiak entered the league:

http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/steveurkel.jpg

Jaleel White now:

http://www.nurido.at/images/whitejaleel2_160.jpg

This is no coincidence.

The main point here is, if he does learn to play off Mo and LeBron driving and drawing double teams, we are talking about a career 50% jump shooter from the field being left wide open. If we get one year of Wally shooting like he normally does, he is exactly what we need in 25-30 minutes a game. If it doesn't work in the first two months of the season and we get a good offer for him, then whatever. But please give a former all star swingman a chance to show what he has left in the tank. Without Wally, I might experiment with jheri-curl again.

aaronbev79
09-17-2008, 01:32 AM
But please give a former all star swingman a chance to show what he has left in the tank. Without Wally, I might experiment with jheri-curl again.

He's going to get a chance to show if he's still got it -- it's not like we're going to bench him entirely, but regardless of how well he plays, he'll never be worth more than his current trade value.

Randolphkeys
09-17-2008, 02:03 AM
He's going to get a chance to show if he's still got it -- it's not like we're going to bench him entirely, but regardless of how well he plays, he'll never be worth more than his current trade value.

I've been consistent with what I hope to see: great play from Wally for 1/2 a season, some team that is willing to make a "Ferry trade," in other words offers us a better player for an expiring with no first round picks attached, then Wally pulls a Brent Barry and comes back to us.

http://www.ktar.com/sports/?nid=21&sid=749527

I doubt anyone relatively close to the Cavs will ever talk about this as an option because of what happened with Stackhouse last year:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3248598

If a team slashing payroll trades for Wally... I want him to consider the Cavs as the place he belongs, just like Brent felt about San Antonio. Hence, while Wally is still a Cavalier, I have pledged to be his biggest fan. Wally has the type of game that is more effective in the playoffs than the regular season... it would be a shame if he doesn't get a second chance after the Boston series.

NarlCavs
09-18-2008, 02:43 PM
I have to think Wally's play will be stronger than it was after coming to the Cavs later in the season last year. His shot couldn't have just completely disappeared overnight. He is the biggest trade chip but I also think he can be a valuable contributer this season.

As far as Kirilenko, he is the type of high salaried player who could become available that could very well be on the Cavs radar but I'm not sure they'd trade for him. Solid well rounded player but he is way overpaid. He is better at PF but does lack the bulk and strength of many other PF's.
I do think Gilbert and the Cavs would take on another big salary for the right player. Not sure if AK47 is it though. He's due approx. $49 million over the next 3 seasons and is due $17.8 million in 2010/11. That takes a huge chunk out of the possible cap space for summer 2010.

Soda
09-18-2008, 02:48 PM
^ I agree with this...I don't see the Cavs bringing in AK47 because he most likely won't be an integral piece of the team come the dreaded 2010 off-season and his salary would be a hit. Too much money to pay in the luxury tax and most of all, we just don't really need that type of guy too badly..IMO we need a better and smarter version of Drew Gooden.

Douglar
09-18-2008, 03:33 PM
..IMO we need a better and smarter version of Drew Gooden.

Or a younger and more athletic version of Z---

Jon
09-18-2008, 03:34 PM
On the AK47 front, there was an article that CSKA plans to make him a big offer when his contract is up. One of the perks is that he wouldn't count against their 2-player non-euro limit.

abuC
09-18-2008, 03:38 PM
Or a younger and more athletic version of Z---


That would be nice, but I think that's pretty much impossible to find.

MYoung23
09-18-2008, 03:41 PM
..IMO we need a better and smarter version of Drew Gooden.

Problem solved.....

http://davidngala.wildlifedirect.org/files/2008/06/tree-stump-by-dn.jpg

flamez
09-18-2008, 04:48 PM
Anybody think Josh Howard could be a possibility?

He wasn't happy about the kidd trade, his production declined when Kidd arrived in Dallas. He was very close to Devin Harris. I find it strange that he's been having stupid offcourt incidents ever since Harris was traded. Maybe he just doesn't want to stay in Dallas. How much longer will Mark Cuban support him?

I'm not saying we should definitely try to trade for him but we should consider it. I wanted to know what you guys think about the possibility of getting Josh Howard? (If it were to come up).

Rimage
09-18-2008, 05:15 PM
Anybody think Josh Howard could be a possibility?

He wasn't happy about the kidd trade, his production declined when Kidd arrived in Dallas. He was very close to Devin Harris. I find it strange that he's been having stupid offcourt incidents ever since Harris was traded. Maybe he just doesn't want to stay in Dallas. How much longer will Mark Cuban support him?

I'm not saying we should definitely try to trade for him but we should consider it. I wanted to know what you guys think about the possibility of getting Josh Howard? (If it were to come up).

Only if we can get him to sing the national anthem.

Nah, I'm just playing...although I do believe there is some clause in his contract that says the arena has to play a Dead Prez song at the beginning of the game or else he doesn't have to be any part of it.

Mdog1
09-18-2008, 05:25 PM
Only if we can get him to sing the national anthem.

Nah, I'm just playing...although I do believe there is some clause in his contract that says the arena has to play a Dead Prez song at the beginning of the game or else he doesn't have to be any part of it.

Plus I look at him as being a high risk player. What is to say he doesn't spaz out because I don't know maybe his introduction wasn't loud enough.

PIP
09-18-2008, 05:25 PM
Anybody think Josh Howard could be a possibility?

He wasn't happy about the kidd trade, his production declined when Kidd arrived in Dallas. He was very close to Devin Harris. I find it strange that he's been having stupid offcourt incidents ever since Harris was traded. Maybe he just doesn't want to stay in Dallas. How much longer will Mark Cuban support him?

I'm not saying we should definitely try to trade for him but we should consider it. I wanted to know what you guys think about the possibility of getting Josh Howard? (If it were to come up).Wouldn't be opposed to it...

But, it's not like we have Devin Harris either...:chuckles:

Rimage
09-18-2008, 05:45 PM
Wouldn't be opposed to it...

But, it's not like we have Devin Harris either...:chuckles:

I found this...

http://www.photodump.org/stored24/defiantdevin1.jpg

that explains a LOT.

PIP
09-18-2008, 07:19 PM
I found this...

http://www.photodump.org/stored24/defiantdevin1.jpg

that explains a LOT.Hmm... I'm intrigued and I would like to know more...

In the meantime..

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/l275P2-G37I&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/l275P2-G37I&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Thunder
09-18-2008, 07:50 PM
It is funny how the J-hO stuff started right after the Kidd trade........he's 28 years old, he's done good so far, he was mature enough before. He's probably frustrated, I mean realgm reported Mavs got plenty of low-ball offers for him, so I guess word was he wanted out or they wanted no more of him. I'd love J-Ho on our team, he can play PF as well as SF. His stats compare to melo's except J-Ho I think can play better D (let's not look at his stls/blks loll) and scores less but is a better complement to LeBron.

crazedcav333
09-18-2008, 07:53 PM
Oh boy. I can see it now. Another February night, 284612946 members on RCF waiting for the Mike Bibby updates while formulating a 100 page thread in 4 hours...good times.

Thunder
09-18-2008, 08:17 PM
I'm glad we didn't get Bibby, I mean he expires next summer anyways and by waiting we got Mo for less (hahahahaha) and someone who's younger and locked in for more years.

aaronbev79
09-18-2008, 08:19 PM
Yeah -- at this point there are very few point guards I'd take over Mo...and for the price there isn't a single one better available.

Hydroponic3385
09-18-2008, 10:04 PM
Yeah the PG's definitely ahead of him are obviously unattainable (Paul, Williams, Parker, etc.) or soon to be over-the-hill (Nash, B. Davis, Billups, etc.). If Mo can score 16-20 points, average 5-6 (or better of course) assists, and fit in with our defense, I'd say we made the best move possible for getting a PG. Especially since he's locked in for his prime years at a very reasonable (if he meets expectations) price, perhaps even a big bargain.

Mdog1
09-19-2008, 04:34 AM
Oh boy. I can see it now. Another February night, 284612946 members on RCF waiting for the Mike Bibby updates while formulating a 100 page thread in 4 hours...good times.

lol:chuckles:

MalTalm
09-19-2008, 04:16 PM
Eh, at this point I think Ferry is taking a "wait and see" approach with this roster. With the addition of Mo Williams and the tantalizing prospects of JJ Hickson, it's about time we wait until the dust settles and see what we need as a team.

My guess is Wally will inevitably come up in numerous trade scenarios around the deadline, as after we have some time we evaluate our roster we determine where our needs are to secure a championship.

But at the same time it's apparent Ferry is working very hard at maintaining a very flexible roster going into the 2010 season. I don't know how many players out there are going to be available to trade for that are only signed for the next two years. And my guess is we intend to make a strong move at Chris Bosh in 2010, and I doubt Ferry intends to mess with the cap in any way that takes away that possibility unless we are getting something of similar value, and the odds of that are extremely low.

I expect lots of talk, but I doubt he ultimately gets moved unless the deal is just too good.

Mdog1
09-19-2008, 07:37 PM
Eh, at this point I think Ferry is taking a "wait and see" approach with this roster. With the addition of Mo Williams and the tantalizing prospects of JJ Hickson, it's about time we wait until the dust settles and see what we need as a team.

My guess is Wally will inevitably come up in numerous trade scenarios around the deadline, as after we have some time we evaluate our roster we determine where our needs are to secure a championship.

But at the same time it's apparent Ferry is working very hard at maintaining a very flexible roster going into the 2010 season. I don't know how many players out there are going to be available to trade for that are only signed for the next two years. And my guess is we intend to make a strong move at Chris Bosh in 2010, and I doubt Ferry intends to mess with the cap in any way that takes away that possibility unless we are getting something of similar value, and the odds of that are extremely low.

I expect lots of talk, but I doubt he ultimately gets moved unless the deal is just too good.

I think Ferry is a very smart GM, we get mad at him sometimes for things that aren't even his fault. I think wally has to be gone by the deadline just to make us a better team. Although I agree it would be nice to have the cap space in 2010, if LeBron leaves then we have absolutely nothing to show for it. Z is aging, Ben is aging rapidly, Szerbiak is older, Wright is old. They play signifigant roles in our team, and if we do not replace them with younger players, with time to develop then it doesn't matter how much cap we have in 2010.

If LeBron leaves no big name player is going to sign here unless we draft him. I hate to say it but Bosh will not become a Cav unless he thinks LeBron may still be here, neither will Wade, Amare, etc........

That being said I think it is important that we find a deal that gives us flexibility in 2010, plus gives us a good player for the time being. We need to win that is how we will keep LeBron He said himself that he doesn't want to be the guy that gets to the finals once. He wants to be there every year, well what better way to do that than to get him a good low post threat that he can pass to all night long.

PIP
09-19-2008, 07:39 PM
I'm glad we didn't get Bibby, I mean he expires next summer anyways and by waiting we got Mo for less (hahahahaha) and someone who's younger and locked in for more years.I hate saying it as well, but I agree about Bibby...

Sure, the posters that were here know about "BIBBY WATCH 07" and how we all were up to 4am on here.. So there is sentimental value to Bibby...However, I'm glad that didn't materialize...

LBJHeath
09-19-2008, 09:57 PM
What? No Jamaal Tinsley rumors???

:chuckles::chuckles::chuckles::chuckles::chuckles: ........ :chuckles: ..... :chuckles:................ :chuckles: .... :chuckles::chuckles::chuckles::chuckles::chuckles:
:chuckles::chuckles: .................. :chuckles: :chuckles: ... :chuckles:.............. :chuckles: ... :chuckles: ........... :chuckles::chuckles:
:chuckles: ..................... :chuckles: .. :chuckles: .. :chuckles:............ :chuckles: ... :chuckles:
:chuckles: .................... :chuckles: .... :chuckles: ... :chuckles:......... :chuckles: ...... :chuckles::chuckles::chuckles::chuckles:
:chuckles: ................... :chuckles::chuckles::chuckles::chuckles: .... :chuckles:....... :chuckles: ..................... :chuckles:
:chuckles: .................. :chuckles: ......... :chuckles: ... :chuckles:..... :chuckles: ...................... :chuckles:
:chuckles: ................. :chuckles: ........... :chuckles: .... :chuckles:.. :chuckles: ..... :chuckles: ............. :chuckles:
:chuckles::chuckles: ............ :chuckles: .............. :chuckles: .... :chuckles::chuckles: ......... :chuckles: .......... :chuckles:
:chuckles::chuckles::chuckles::chuckles::chuckles: :chuckles: ................. :chuckles: ..... :chuckles: ............. :chuckles::chuckles::chuckles::chuckles:

MalTalm
09-19-2008, 10:32 PM
I think Ferry is a very smart GM, we get mad at him sometimes for things that aren't even his fault. I think wally has to be gone by the deadline just to make us a better team. Although I agree it would be nice to have the cap space in 2010, if LeBron leaves then we have absolutely nothing to show for it. Z is aging, Ben is aging rapidly, Szerbiak is older, Wright is old. They play signifigant roles in our team, and if we do not replace them with younger players, with time to develop then it doesn't matter how much cap we have in 2010.

If LeBron leaves no big name player is going to sign here unless we draft him. I hate to say it but Bosh will not become a Cav unless he thinks LeBron may still be here, neither will Wade, Amare, etc........

That being said I think it is important that we find a deal that gives us flexibility in 2010, plus gives us a good player for the time being. We need to win that is how we will keep LeBron He said himself that he doesn't want to be the guy that gets to the finals once. He wants to be there every year, well what better way to do that than to get him a good low post threat that he can pass to all night long.


I agree 100%. But Bosh is likely to come here if LeBron is staying, and LeBron is likely to stay if Bosh is coming. I believe the whole reason Ferry has been so careful with the contracts on this team is to build on 2010, not fear it. Right now the only people signed through the 2010 season are Mo Williams, JJ Hickson, and Boobie Gibson. Add in Chris Bosh and LeBron James and that should be as solid a core to build around as any in the NBA. And while it's important we stay competitive going into 2010, I just don't see Ferry throwing away that flexibility to get another borderline player signed past 2010, and most teams won't trade expiring contracts for expiring contracts.

I'm not saying Wally moving is impossible, but I just get the feeling it's more likely this is the roster we ride out through the season than not. I don't doubt the rumors will fly, but unless Ferry is looking at a pretty imbalanced trade in his favor, I doubt he trades an expiring contract that extends him past 2010.

Mdog1
09-19-2008, 10:46 PM
I agree 100%. But Bosh is likely to come here if LeBron is staying, and LeBron is likely to stay if Bosh is coming. I believe the whole reason Ferry has been so careful with the contracts on this team is to build on 2010, not fear it. Right now the only people signed through the 2010 season are Mo Williams, JJ Hickson, and Boobie Gibson. Add in Chris Bosh and LeBron James and that should be as solid a core to build around as any in the NBA. And while it's important we stay competitive going into 2010, I just don't see Ferry throwing away that flexibility to get another borderline player signed past 2010, and most teams won't trade expiring contracts for expiring contracts.

I'm not saying Wally moving is impossible, but I just get the feeling it's more likely this is the roster we ride out through the season than not. I don't doubt the rumors will fly, but unless Ferry is looking at a pretty imbalanced trade in his favor, I doubt he trades an expiring contract that extends him past 2010.

That is why I think we should be looking to trade for players who have a contract that is up in 2010, plus are an improvement over Wally. Even if it is just a solid role player that can back up Big Z for 20 minutes a night that still gives the big guy the help he needs to produce, insures the team has a center, and keeps flexibility for 2010.

I completely agree out of the 2010 class that Bosh is the most likely to move. The situation in Toronto is not exactly ideal in that they are a playoff team, but they don't go anywhere in the playoffs. I am pretty sure Wade, Amare, Howard, etc.... is going to resign with their team. Not to many players switch teams like they did this year (it was nuts the list is huge compared to past years). The Raptors will fight with everything that they have to resign Bosh, even if it meant getting him a new coach, GM, whatever. They are tired of losing their good players to American cities, so expect a fight from the Raps.

With Bosh I don't see him as the attention whore LeBron is so they would probably work well together. They are friends, he can shoot from anywhere, and with LeBron he will get tons of open looks. They both could technically go to NY and play together as well just to throw that out there, not that I see it happening. I can see NY after this season buying out a lot of their contracts and just signing a bunch of 1 year deals in hopes of landing a huge tandum a la Bosh, Wade, Amare, LBJ. They would actually have a good team if they did do this because of all of thier first round picks being so high, plus two superstars. Then just a couple of fillers Bam.

Do I see that happening (that being that they sign two players) No I don't I don't think that unless the players had it all thought out well before the time that thier contracts were up that they will end up in the same spot. With LeBron trying to convince Bosh to come to Cleveland that is a pretty good sign that he wants to stay, and is trying to get a friend to come and help us win.

Thunder
09-19-2008, 10:53 PM
I agree 100%. But Bosh is likely to come here if LeBron is staying, and LeBron is likely to stay if Bosh is coming. I believe the whole reason Ferry has been so careful with the contracts on this team is to build on 2010, not fear it. Right now the only people signed through the 2010 season are Mo Williams, JJ Hickson, and Boobie Gibson. Add in Chris Bosh and LeBron James and that should be as solid a core to build around as any in the NBA. And while it's important we stay competitive going into 2010, I just don't see Ferry throwing away that flexibility to get another borderline player signed past 2010, and most teams won't trade expiring contracts for expiring contracts.

I'm not saying Wally moving is impossible, but I just get the feeling it's more likely this is the roster we ride out through the season than not. I don't doubt the rumors will fly, but unless Ferry is looking at a pretty imbalanced trade in his favor, I doubt he trades an expiring contract that extends him past 2010.

Yeah but what if we get a young all-star for Wally? Like G-Wall, JJ, w/e...it wouldn't matter if they were locked up for a good amount of years. Unless Ferry is very confident he can snag a Bosh/Amare/Wade during the summer of 2010. If he is, I guess for NOW we could go for these guys and still contend- they expire in 2010

Joe Johnson
J-Ho - team option
S-Jack
T-Mac
Haslem
RJ (ETO)
Redd (ETO)
Mike Miller

That's a lot of options right there. I think all of those are very possible except for T-Mac at this point. JJ will be unavailable if Hawks are in playoff contention.

Mdog1
09-19-2008, 11:09 PM
Yeah but what if we get a young all-star for Wally? Like G-Wall, JJ, w/e...it wouldn't matter if they were locked up for a good amount of years. Unless Ferry is very confident he can snag a Bosh/Amare/Wade during the summer of 2010. If he is, I guess for NOW we could go for these guys and still contend- they expire in 2010

Joe Johnson
J-Ho - team option
S-Jack
T-Mac
Haslem
RJ (ETO)
Redd (ETO)
Mike Miller

That's a lot of options right there. I think all of those are very possible except for T-Mac at this point. JJ will be unavailable if Hawks are in playoff contention.

That was my point exactly, if we can improve the roster while maintaining 2010 cap space then go right ahead and do it. If a team wants to give us a player that is not a great player, and his contract runs until 2013 then let Wally expire. I just think that there is always going to be a team that thought that it would do better than it is, and is looking ot dump salary and rebuild. If we feel charitable enough to take thier star off of their hands then they owe us lol.

Coyote
09-20-2008, 12:47 AM
As an avid participant in Bibby Watches spanning the years, even I'll admit that, as things have worked out, it was for the best that we didn't get him. Maybe in '07 it would've been different, but now...well, Go Mo'.

I agree that Bosh is the most likely to come here in 2010 of the '10 crew. He conveniently will fill a need we will still most likely have. Even if we have a strong player in Hickson by then, you make room for Bosh. Also, I believe his defensive potential has yet to be truly tapped.

But there's a risk in waiting for that day. It all depends on 1) How well Wally plays this fall and early winter, and 2) as everyone's pointing out, maintaining that cap flexibility unless we're talking about a real All-Star at the 2 or 4 come Feb's trading deadline. A guy we'll want to keep around in lieu of his salary, who would equal Bosh's impact. (I hope this squashes the hopes of getting Vince Carter. He's not the type of investment we want to make.) Of that list, the most realistic are Joe Johnson or Redd. Funny how these guys keep lingering.... Haslem's not enough of an impact player, though he'd be a nice pick-up. I got slammed awhile ago for bringing up T-Mac. :chuckles: Mike Miller would be great, but I don't see it happening.

Bottom line is, we're in the driver's seat. We can afford to be patient...just patient long enough.

abuC
09-20-2008, 01:40 AM
Joe Johnson
J-Ho - team option




These two are the most ideal, I doubt the Cavs would go after Josh Howard though.

aaronbev79
09-20-2008, 01:59 AM
While I agree with everything that was just said, I can't help but feel a ton of anticipation for the roster that we already have:

The Young Guys: Hickson, Kinsey, and Jackson -- If just one of these guys ends up developing into a reasonably reliable bench/role player, we will be in a great position come playoffs in terms of depth. My money is on Kinsey, but I'm really exited to see Hickson play -- and I hope he gets comfortable soon!

The Reliables: AV, West, Gibson -- If these guys come into this season ready to fill their roles, they will provide a much needed consistency.

The Talent: LBJ, Z, Mo -- Hopefully these guys just keep doing what they do -- I was really happy with Z's performance last year -- hopefully the big guy can stay mostly healthy for another couple seasons...but at this point I'll just hope for one more.

The Extra Meat: Wallace and Wright -- I really hope that Wallace comes into this season wanting to prove everyone wrong who claim that he's on the steep decline. As for Wright -- I hope we don't need him (because of Hickson's realized potential/because everyone stays healthy), but if we do I glad he's here.

The Intangibles: Pavs and Wally -- If both Pavs and Wally return to their expected statistical production from just a few seasons past, this team could really be in an excellent position whether we are looking to trade at the deadline -- or keep Wally.


Though I really think that Wally is probably gone, I really think that there are so many unknowns until the season starts that this one is almost impossible to predict. However, I look forward to seeing how everything unfolds as we get nearer to the trade deadline, and I hope Wally wants to show everyone that he's still an all-star -- him playing at that level would only create good problems for our rotations. There are so many possibilities for this season that I am almost counting the minutes until the season begins!

Houston Z33
09-20-2008, 02:21 AM
Wally can carry his ass on somewhere but truth be told I think we're at least going back to the finals again this year with or without him.

Mdog1
09-20-2008, 07:16 PM
Wally can carry his ass on somewhere but truth be told I think we're at least going back to the finals again this year with or without him.

I agree and certainly hope that come the finals LBJ won't be completely burnt out again.After the Piston series it looked to me that he was just wipped clean.

Thunder
09-20-2008, 07:51 PM
I agree and certainly hope that come the finals LBJ won't be completely burnt out again.After the Piston series it looked to me that he was just wipped clean.

Man when I was watching that game 5, when I saw LeBron bending over and panting at the final buzzer, MB coming over to give him a kiss, it was making me feel out of breath. LeBron looked EXHAUSTED, I mean of course he was, single handedly dropping 29 out of 30 points, with I think only 2 of those buckets coming easy (passes from Z leading to dunks). The guy needed IV fluids injected into him to prevent dehydration. I'm hoping sooo much that Mo can relieve some of the pressure, just some, maybe LeBron can stay fresh and we cruise through those first 2 rounds (I doubt it), but if we get to finals again which is very likely I think we'd win. Lakers are the best team out West, and even though their starting frontcourt is strong we have more depth and more big bodies and better rebounding. As of right now IDC if Wally's traded, as long as he's out there hittin 3s, helping the team out and most importantly LeBron.

Speaking of Wally, any news on him? Does he look in good shape? Or is he declining and getting slower?

Mdog1
09-20-2008, 08:13 PM
Man when I was watching that game 5, when I saw LeBron bending over and panting at the final buzzer, MB coming over to give him a kiss, it was making me feel out of breath. LeBron looked EXHAUSTED, I mean of course he was, single handedly dropping 29 out of 30 points, with I think only 2 of those buckets coming easy (passes from Z leading to dunks). The guy needed IV fluids injected into him to prevent dehydration. I'm hoping sooo much that Mo can relieve some of the pressure, just some, maybe LeBron can stay fresh and we cruise through those first 2 rounds (I doubt it), but if we get to finals again which is very likely I think we'd win. Lakers are the best team out West, and even though their starting frontcourt is strong we have more depth and more big bodies and better rebounding. As of right now IDC if Wally's traded, as long as he's out there hittin 3s, helping the team out and most importantly LeBron.

Speaking of Wally, any news on him? Does he look in good shape? Or is he declining and getting slower?

If Wally is hitting every shot in sight I would personally shoot Ferry if he traded him.But if Wally is playing at or around the same level as last year he is gone in my mind. Even if it is just for a mediocre player that barely improves the roster, but expires in 2010 (someone like Ben Wallace). That to me would help the team more than Wally's 8 points or however many he would be getting.

If the Cavaliers make the Finals and play the LAL we WILL win there is no chance we lose, I don't care if they have all seven footers on the floor with Kobe they still can't defend LBJ. But with LAL we can defend Kobe (after all that is why we got Kinsey lol) and pretty much as seen in the Celtic series shut down their offense. Kobe will not be guarding LBJ because LA doesn't want him in foul trouble, and he is the only defender that I can see stopping, or rather slowing LeBron down. And finally with Mo hopefully he can create that extra bit of offense that we lacked last year.

Mark my words, if we get to the finals and play LAL we win in five it's not even close unless they pull another Gasol move out of thier asses.

Walter White
09-20-2008, 11:13 PM
I really dont see the realistic possiblity of getting Joe Johnson. I dont understand how we could get him but if we could like some of you say....that is probably the best thing we could get. I would really like to see Emeka or Gerlad to Cleveland. I think Big Ben would be more productive off the bench and wouldnt create the offensive liability that he is. Getting a starting big if possible is more important to me than getting a shooting guard because Mo already solved the backcourt scoring problem.

Mdog1
09-21-2008, 01:51 PM
J-Ho may be our best option to maintain salary cap space for 2010. He has a team option for that season so if he is doing good next to LeBron then we keep him, if not and we have a good shot at getting Bosh then we cut him loose.

SpanishCavsfan
09-21-2008, 02:00 PM
Wally should be traded. Sure, if he gets his shot back he could be a nice offensive boost, but to me that mean he's making himself a more valuable trade asset. He's old, he isn't going to get better, he's going to get worse, and he is slow. So we need to use him while we have the chance. If he can get us a defensive minded SG, since Mo is a shoot first PG and isn't at defense.... As of right now, or get us a younger center to take over for Z when he needs rest and to be our Center for the future, or who knows what else we might need by the deadline. The point is Wally is too valuable to just let expire. If he gets his shot back, and we trade him, and he still plays well, then we should sign him at the end of this season to the MLE. If not, then we still trade him, and we will still probably get a decent player. Win win.

MalTalm
09-21-2008, 02:08 PM
Yeah my entire point is simply that we won't be extending the near $14 million we owe Wally to anyone else past 2010. Now if there's a team who wants to get under the luxury tax in 2009 or take a run at a free agency class that is almost as good as the one in 2010 and will trade a reliable piece or two for Wally then the likelihood of the deal goes up.

I certainly think Bosh coming to Cleveland is far from certain, but as has been discussed on these boards before Ferry is the only guy who has the flexibility to sign LeBron James AND another max contract in 2010. That's a huge bargaining chip to both keep your star player and bring another star onto the roster.

Though our backcourt has seen some massive improvements, our frontcourt is looking weaker than ever right now. The past 3 years we haven't so much relied on LeBron James for performance as we have relied on Z's ankles holding out. He's again another year older, and our options behind Z are not good. If Wally is traded, it will almost certainly be for a serviceable big who can play extended minutes under center.

Predicting the outcome of February in September is a futile effort, but unless the Cavs are offered excellent perceived value for our team, I just don't see us unloading Wally. There's a lot of restrictions Ferry will have in place in order to finalize a deal, so he'll have to dig deep to get the perfect trade done in order to make this move work.

All that being said, you can't help but get excited about the prospect of Mo playing alongside LeBron, I'm just ready for this season to get started.

Mdog1
09-21-2008, 02:12 PM
Wally should be traded. Sure, if he gets his shot back he could be a nice offensive boost, but to me that mean he's making himself a more valuable trade asset. He's old, he isn't going to get better, he's going to get worse, and he is slow. So we need to use him while we have the chance. If he can get us a defensive minded SG, since Mo is a shoot first PG and isn't at defense.... As of right now, or get us a younger center to take over for Z when he needs rest and to be our Center for the future, or who knows what else we might need by the deadline. The point is Wally is too valuable to just let expire. If he gets his shot back, and we trade him, and he still plays well, then we should sign him at the end of this season to the MLE. If not, then we still trade him, and we will still probably get a decent player. Win win.

That is true we should trade him for anything we can get that improves the roster. Even if it is a pick and a tiny contract that expires in 2010. I just think that there has to be ways to keep our 2010 cap, and improve our team now. If we got Mike Miller from Memphis he is if im not mistaken a 2010 expiring, and and improvement on our roster. We could also get Howard as in my last post.

If Wally produces this season then I agree we should maybe think about resigning him to the Vet Min, or we should try and get Kidd. But that is next offseason and doesn't affect this season in any way.

Mdog1
09-21-2008, 02:24 PM
Yeah my entire point is simply that we won't be extending the near $14 million we owe Wally to anyone else past 2010. Now if there's a team who wants to get under the luxury tax in 2009 or take a run at a free agency class that is almost as good as the one in 2010 and will trade a reliable piece or two for Wally then the likelihood of the deal goes up.

I certainly think Bosh coming to Cleveland is far from certain, but as has been discussed on these boards before Ferry is the only guy who has the flexibility to sign LeBron James AND another max contract in 2010. That's a huge bargaining chip to both keep your star player and bring another star onto the roster.

Though our backcourt has seen some massive improvements, our frontcourt is looking weaker than ever right now. The past 3 years we haven't so much relied on LeBron James for performance as we have relied on Z's ankles holding out. He's again another year older, and our options behind Z are not good. If Wally is traded, it will almost certainly be for a serviceable big who can play extended minutes under center.

Predicting the outcome of February in September is a futile effort, but unless the Cavs are offered excellent perceived value for our team, I just don't see us unloading Wally. There's a lot of restrictions Ferry will have in place in order to finalize a deal, so he'll have to dig deep to get the perfect trade done in order to make this move work.

All that being said, you can't help but get excited about the prospect of Mo playing alongside LeBron, I'm just ready for this season to get started.

I agree with everything you said except that we are the only team that has cap to sign two max contracts.That is not true. We do have a lot of space for that summer, but so does NJ, NY, Miami, Toronto (LBJ or any huge name isn't going there) these are just the ones I can think of off of the top of my head. And like you said it is useless to try and predict the future so why are we trying to predict the cap space for two years from now? NJ could move VC for an expiring and then Bam they have a ton of space, NY could move Randolph and then they have no guaranteed salary for the 2010 offseason (doesn't that seem like a ton of cap space?).

MalTalm
09-21-2008, 03:26 PM
I agree with everything you said except that we are the only team that has cap to sign two max contracts.That is not true. We do have a lot of space for that summer, but so does NJ, NY, Miami, Toronto (LBJ or any huge name isn't going there) these are just the ones I can think of off of the top of my head. And like you said it is useless to try and predict the future so why are we trying to predict the cap space for two years from now? NJ could move VC for an expiring and then Bam they have a ton of space, NY could move Randolph and then they have no guaranteed salary for the 2010 offseason (doesn't that seem like a ton of cap space?).



Actually, it surprisingly is true. New Jersey right now only has $21.8 mil in capspace in 2010... to get over $40 mil they would need to unload both VC and Devin Harris for expirings, and you are also assuming they won't resign Yi Jianlain, Jarvis Hayes, Stromile Swift, etc...

As far as New York is concerned, they have an astounding $68.5 mil coming off the books, but that still doesn't give them more than $29 mil of capspace in 2010. Now they almost certainly will try and move Jamal Crawford and Zach Randolph for expirings or whatever they can get, but they do still need to field a team until 2010, and certain players such as Malik Rose, Quentin Richardson, and David Lee are likely to see extensions past 2010, and none of them all that cheap.

Miami does have the capspace to get Dwayne Wade and another superstar right now, but that is assuming they don't plan on resigning Shawn Marion, Michael Beasley or Mario Chalmers. I think it's safe to assume at least two of those players will be extended past 2010, which puts them more than $10 mil away from having the room to get another max contract in 2010.

Toronto is in the same boat as Miami. They theoretically have the capspace to move for a second max contract, but they are likely going to resign Bargnani, they have Calderon on contract, and most of their flexibility is actually coming free in 2009, and they'll have to fill a roster this summer. They are the most likely candidate to have space to sign 2 max contracts, but at the same time, the least likely to land them.

The fact of the matter is, a team needs to have less than $20 mil in guaranteed money going into 2010 in order to be able to sign 2 max contracts, and that feat is almost impossible. But with the great deals Ferry has in Gibson and Hickson, and Mo Williams having a respectable deal past 2010 gives us a solid core of players to go forward with. That coupled with the fact that most of our contracts come off the books in 2010 and not in 2009 means that only resigning Wally or Varejao can take away our flexibility. We can add another $6.5 mil onto our books past 2010 and still be able to sign two max contracts. A deal over that value though takes that opportunity away.

Mdog1
09-21-2008, 03:59 PM
Actually, it surprisingly is true. New Jersey right now only has $21.8 mil in capspace in 2010... to get over $40 mil they would need to unload both VC and Devin Harris for expirings, and you are also assuming they won't resign Yi Jianlain, Jarvis Hayes, Stromile Swift, etc...

As far as New York is concerned, they have an astounding $68.5 mil coming off the books, but that still doesn't give them more than $29 mil of capspace in 2010. Now they almost certainly will try and move Jamal Crawford and Zach Randolph for expirings or whatever they can get, but they do still need to field a team until 2010, and certain players such as Malik Rose, Quentin Richardson, and David Lee are likely to see extensions past 2010, and none of them all that cheap.

Miami does have the capspace to get Dwayne Wade and another superstar right now, but that is assuming they don't plan on resigning Shawn Marion, Michael Beasley or Mario Chalmers. I think it's safe to assume at least two of those players will be extended past 2010, which puts them more than $10 mil away from having the room to get another max contract in 2010.

Toronto is in the same boat as Miami. They theoretically have the capspace to move for a second max contract, but they are likely going to resign Bargnani, they have Calderon on contract, and most of their flexibility is actually coming free in 2009, and they'll have to fill a roster this summer. They are the most likely candidate to have space to sign 2 max contracts, but at the same time, the least likely to land them.

The fact of the matter is, a team needs to have less than $20 mil in guaranteed money going into 2010 in order to be able to sign 2 max contracts, and that feat is almost impossible. But with the great deals Ferry has in Gibson and Hickson, and Mo Williams having a respectable deal past 2010 gives us a solid core of players to go forward with. That coupled with the fact that most of our contracts come off the books in 2010 and not in 2009 means that only resigning Wally or Varejao can take away our flexibility. We can add another $6.5 mil onto our books past 2010 and still be able to sign two max contracts. A deal over that value though takes that opportunity away.

Ok but still with NY they could completely tank their next seasons get some good picks, trade Randolph and then if the players with ETO's use them, then they would depending on who they trade Zach for have less than 17mil on their pay roll. That is why I think that it is pointless to try to predict where a team will be in two years. Who knows if LeBron comes out and pulls a Kobe and wants to be traded then this team could easily finish last in the league (depending on what we get for him) or if LeBron gets injured (knock on wood) then we could again finish last in the league and that would become a real posibility. Just look at our record from last season without LBJ. But hey if that did happen and we got the first second or third player in the draft we would no longer have to worry about getting the player in 2010 cuz we would get him in 09.

MalTalm
09-21-2008, 04:01 PM
But how many teams really want to trade their extra valuable expring contracts for the 2010 season for Zach Randolph???

I'm just saying that though anything is possible, Cleveland is the only team who has a realistic shot at getting 2 max contracts in 2010.

Mdog1
09-21-2008, 04:06 PM
But how many teams really want to trade their extra valuable expring contracts for the 2010 season for Zach Randolph???

I'm just saying that though anything is possible, Cleveland is the only team who has a realistic shot at getting 2 max contracts in 2010.

Right now we are I agree with that. Realistically will NY just tank the season, yes because they have no choice. Will LBJ and Bosh play together, probably not that is just to much money for one team to still build a decent team around. Even though it would be great to have LBJ play in a big market for everybody else in the world, it would be a huge sting to the Cavs and Cleveland fans. I think it is pointless to try and think of us as the only team with cap space right now, because right now is not the time that is going to matter. 2010 is the time that matters.