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View Full Version : A reason to love..well not hate Larry Hughes as much



djou316
03-13-2009, 01:18 PM
At least larry's good for something!

http://www.nypost.com/seven/03132009/sports/knicks/larry__lebron_unlikely_to_come_to_big_ap_159334.ht m

apologies for not knowing how to quote an article, also didn't know whether to put it here or around the league.

JayP146
03-13-2009, 01:32 PM
Quoted it for you:



MINNEAPOLIS - Larry Hughes has brought a smile to Knicks fans' faces in recent days with his clutch play, but his opinion on his buddy and former Cavaliers teammate LeBron James' future will not be a popular one in the Big Apple.

Hughes, who revisits Cleveland Sunday for the first time as a Knick when they close their Rust-Belt Tour, told The Post he thinks there's a good chance James will stay in Cleveland, possibly signing a contract extension this summer.

KNICKS BLOG

"I think it would be a tough situation for him to actually leave everything," Hughes said. "It's set up for him there, being from the area [and] taking that team as far as he's taken them. He's the face of the organization. He's the face of sports in that city. It would be tough."

Nevertheless, Hughes said the Knicks could be James' next choice if he doesn't re-sign with the Eastern Conference leaders.

"I'd definitely think he'd consider it especially if he doesn't re-sign," Hughes said. "I think all his options will be open. At the same time, I think he's going to go to a place where he feels he could win the most and also get the exposure of being in that market."

Hughes may have his inside information on James' plans. Hughes and James text-message twice a week. Their wives hang out in the summer and talk all the time, Hughes said.

"We're friends," said Hughes, dispelling the myth that they didn't get along. :chuckles:

Hughes, whose Knicks face the Timberwolves tonight at Target Center, has given their playoff push a shot in the arm with his back-to-back gems in Milwaukee and Detroit, leaving them 1 games out of the eighth slot.

Hughes' contract expires after next season, and he could be taking notes for James, who congratulated him on coming to the Knicks.

"He liked it," Hughes said. "He talked highly of the coach [Mike D'Antoni] and his style of play."

Dustin
03-13-2009, 01:36 PM
Hughes may have his inside information on James' plans. Hughes and James text-message twice a week. Their wives hang out in the summer and talk all the time, Hughes said.


Is that 2 text messages each? Does anybody actually count how many times they text their friends a week? Let alone scheduling "twice a week".

Laura, you're one weird dude.

FlipSaari2
03-13-2009, 01:38 PM
Is that 2 text messages each? Does anybody actually count how many times they text their friends a week? Let alone scheduling "twice a week".

Laura, you're one weird dude.

also, LeBron doesnt have a wife....he has a girlfriend

Jon
03-13-2009, 01:41 PM
Fortunately the Knicks fans have nothing to worry about as Larry will be available for the Knicks to re-sign.

Larry does have a terrific situation playing for D'Antoni. It'll be interesting to see if his body holds up long enough for him to make something out of it.

Jon
03-13-2009, 01:45 PM
also, LeBron doesnt have a wife....he has a girlfriend

Even LeBron has referred to Savannah as his wife before.

Basically they have a common law marriage.

Brandname
03-13-2009, 01:46 PM
Because he doesn't play for the Cavs anymore?

samtheman67
03-13-2009, 01:53 PM
Even LeBron has referred to Savannah as his wife before.

Basically they have a common law marriage.

Legal marriage just complicates things doesnt it jon? haha

Jon
03-13-2009, 01:58 PM
Legal marriage just complicates things doesnt it jon? haha

Apparently? No one has really grilled LeBron on the subject (which is surprising).

Personally, I wouldn't have gotten married at 24 either, even though I eventually did marry the same woman I was with at the time. There were no alternative reasons (money, wanting to play the field, etc), it just wasn't something I was in any hurry to do.

Sea
03-13-2009, 02:12 PM
there is really no reason to hate Larry. Yeah he came here and didn't pan out, but I'm sure he wasn't trying to do that. He didn't fit in here, and his life has had a ton of bumps in the last couple years while he was here. No reason to hate him

Bigshot-A
03-13-2009, 02:30 PM
I never really hated him as did most of the cavs fans i know, but that still doesn't mean i'm a hughes lover. LeBron already said it was a possibility he signs an extension with the Cavs this year, no real surprise here, and also in my opinion no reason to like him for that if you are a hater, lol.

Gimme Some Mo
03-13-2009, 03:04 PM
I am disappointed in LeBron for being friends with that bum.

Maximus
03-13-2009, 03:43 PM
It's been a year since he played here, but does anyone remember which one is his wife? :cool:

http://theburningriver.files.wordpress.com/2006/05/nelly2-larry%20hughes.jpg

Brother Redbush
03-14-2009, 10:50 AM
[quote=Maximus;441440]It's been a year since he played here, but does anyone remember which one is his wife? :cool:




http://theburningriver.files.wordpress.com/2006/05/nelly2-larry%20hughes.jpg[/quote



According to w&g, he apparently had some in most every stop around the country.

Damage
03-14-2009, 11:11 AM
Never hated Larry as a person. I just hated him as a player. Even if he doesn't care to play for a winner, that's his prerogative. I don't hate him for it. I just don't want that crap on my team.

-KingofKings23-
03-14-2009, 11:19 AM
Personaly Im not a Larry Hughes fan but then again I dont hate him either. He wasnt a good fit here in Cleveland and thats why he sucked..... alot! Hes just a better fit on the Knicks run and gun style of team. Good for Larry.

WestFo3
03-14-2009, 11:30 AM
Apparently? No one has really grilled LeBron on the subject (which is surprising).

Personally, I wouldn't have gotten married at 24 either, even though I eventually did marry the same woman I was with at the time. There were no alternative reasons (money, wanting to play the field, etc), it just wasn't something I was in any hurry to do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57X3kCB2FtI

theSTEREO.
03-14-2009, 12:18 PM
Man, I really felt bad for him when I saw this part of the article:


Hughes' stint in Cleveland was pockmarked with off-the-court issues despite being on the 2006-2007 club that stunned the league by making the finals. Hughes missed the last two finals games with plantar fasciitis. But Hughes was going through a personal crisis through much of his Cavalier stint.

During their playoff series vs. Detroit in 2006, Hughes' brother, Justin, who had a heart defect, died at age 20. Hughes was so close to his brother he elected to stay close to home for college, at St. Louis University. Hughes said around that time his aunt also passed away and his wife had an aneurysm. At the trade deadline last year, Hughes requested a trade and was shipped to Chicago.

"I needed to get out of there," Hughes said. "A lot of personal things happened [that] made it tough. It wasn't about the city, wasn't about the team.

"I needed to get out of that city. It's tough when you drive on the same roads you heard bad news. I tried to get out of there and get a clear head. I talked to management and told them I needed to just get something new going. They helped me out, and I feel 100 percent better now."

I knew about those things when he was here, but kinda let my annoyance with him as a ball player cause me to ignore it.

And yeah, when your job seemingly affects thousands and thousands of people, it gets really magnified, but imagining myself losing my brother, my aunt, and my wife having an aneurysm, man my work would suffer too, no doubt.

I'm not saying it all changes, etc., but it'll sure make me think even harder about boo-ing the guy.

-Akronite-
03-14-2009, 12:22 PM
Personally, I wouldn't have gotten married at 24 either

Lemme guess, you wouldn't have two kids either?

But it's good that he doesn't get married, it can get ugly and why would be want to cut his money in half when he's trying to earn a billion dollars? Plus, look at Wade. :chuckles:

PS- I'm glad Larry is happy now. As much as anyone can hate him, the fact is that we signed him for way too much (not his fault) and added him to a system that doesn't fit his style at all (career year was from a running game). Sooo... good for him. Glad to see he didn't want out because he was a douche, just had his own problems he needed sorted out.

The Voice
03-14-2009, 12:47 PM
Never hated Larry as a person. I just hated him as a player. Even if he doesn't care to play for a winner, that's his prerogative. I don't hate him for it. I just don't want that crap on my team.

He's a true player

http://theburningriver.files.wordpress.com/2006/05/nelly2-larry%20hughes.jpg
You wouldn't want him on your team? I wouldn't mind being his wing man!

In all seriousness, I like Larry Hughes as a person. He didn't fit with the Cavs, but I think he fits with NY's run and gun style. He played really well in Washington because that offense is set up for him to score and miss more.

InBoobieWeTrust
03-14-2009, 12:55 PM
Hughes was a great person, he was just a bad fit as LeBron's "pippen".

Now, a healthy Larry Hughes-type player(but with the desire to win) would be almost a perfect 6th man for us right now(a healthy larry hughes is essentially a gerald wallace or richard jefferson type of player).


However, he's always been a good person, he even stayed in town to attend that scheduled charity event that took place after we traded him.

Mad props to him as a person, not so much as a basketball player(doesnt want to win), and he's so fragile!

LBJ23
03-14-2009, 03:26 PM
[quote=Maximus;441440]It's been a year since he played here, but does anyone remember which one is his wife? :cool:




http://theburningriver.files.wordpress.com/2006/05/nelly2-larry%20hughes.jpg[/quote



According to w&g, he apparently had some in most every stop around the country.

That left girl looks like Ben Wallace :eek:

Mdog1
03-14-2009, 03:32 PM
[QUOTE=Brother Redbush;442777]

That left girl looks like Ben Wallace :eek:

Boy in that case I would love to take a shower with Ben Wallace. :chuckles:

theSTEREO.
03-14-2009, 03:38 PM
[QUOTE=LBJ23;442988]

Boy in that case I would love to take a shower with Ben Wallace. :chuckles:

This could've all been way less creepy if ya'll had just said she looks like Ben Wallace's daughter.

Mdog1
03-14-2009, 04:57 PM
But why? It isn't as fun that way.

Jon
03-14-2009, 07:50 PM
Lemme guess, you wouldn't have two kids either?

Heh, good guess, not out of wedlock that's part of making a commitment to create a family; but I admit things are a little different when you're worth millions. Still, money can solve a lot of problems, but only commitment can guarantee you're there every day for your children.

Jon
03-14-2009, 07:55 PM
According to w&g, he apparently had some in most every stop around the country.

Are there players who don't take advantages of the "privileges" their wealth and fame affords them?

When Kirilenko stuck that deal with his wife that he'd only fool around with someone else once a year (or whatever) my first assumption was that she'd just extracted a huge concession...

The Voice
03-15-2009, 04:18 PM
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/132/416020883_cd51c5ed8a.jpg?v=0

Larry Hughes ladies and gentlemen.


Are there players who don't take advantages of the "privileges" their wealth and fame affords them?

Z

Mdog1
03-15-2009, 04:21 PM
Larry "Pimp Juice" Hughes putting in some work with the honeys (even though I don't think those girls are that hot).

The Common Man
03-15-2009, 04:44 PM
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/132/416020883_cd51c5ed8a.jpg?v=0

Larry Hughes ladies and gentlemen.



Z

so Larry Hughes is a bad person for taking a picture with 2 females in what appears to be a hotel lobby, while drinking bottled water?

for some reason people talk about the Larry Hughes era in Cleveland like he was the reason we had lottery picks every year, when in reality, with him, we took the Pistons to 7 games and made the NBA finals. He's no Mo Williams, but he's a decent NBA player.

Douglar
03-15-2009, 08:21 PM
He's no Mo Williams, but he's a decent NBA player.

I'd like to thank Larry for his minus 16 while on the floor today. The Cavs would have had a hard time winning without him.

Jon
03-16-2009, 12:26 AM
I used to be able to find a silver lining after a 6 for 17 Hughes performance, whether it was the steals, or the boards, the assists, his +/-, or some big defensive plays. That sure wasn't the case tonight.

I haven't seen much of Larry with the Knicks, but it looks to me like he's still physically a long way from the mini-LeBron who once put up 20/5/5/3 before signing with the Cavs - still - he looks pretty good compared to Q Rich. Hooking up with D'Antoni hasn't seemed to reverse his clock back to his Phoenix days.

PIP
03-16-2009, 12:28 AM
Q-Rich is either taking human growth hormones, or he's busy lifting while the game is going on...

A Minnow Frenzy
03-16-2009, 02:45 AM
Laura Hughes is a shitpile. He hated the city, the fans, and the team. Needless to say he erks me as a ballplayer and his character. I don't get why some people stick up for him.

King of the Cavs 23
03-16-2009, 03:05 AM
Laura Hughes is a shitpile. He hated the city, the fans, and the team. Needless to say he erks me as a ballplayer and his character.

Mate you forgot the key word there;

Laura Hughes is a STILL shitpile. He hated the city, the fans, and the team.

Otis
03-16-2009, 09:18 AM
Wearing the number 0 on his uniform fits him perfectly.

Feneckus
03-16-2009, 10:31 AM
Q: Do you miss it at all here?

A: Not at all.

Source : http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2009/03/the_q_with_new_york_knicks_gua.html

It's okay Larry, we don't miss you at all too :thumbup:

Mdog1
03-16-2009, 10:51 AM
I miss Larry :(

The Voice
03-16-2009, 10:52 AM
so Larry Hughes is a bad person for taking a picture with 2 females in what appears to be a hotel lobby, while drinking bottled water?

for some reason people talk about the Larry Hughes era in Cleveland like he was the reason we had lottery picks every year, when in reality, with him, we took the Pistons to 7 games and made the NBA finals. He's no Mo Williams, but he's a decent NBA player.

Where did I ever say he's a bad person for doing such?

I don't have a problem with Hughes at all, he didn't fit our system. That's not his fault, any athlete would have taken the deal we gave him. If anyones to blame it's Ferry for not knowing he wouldn't fit.

It wasn't Hughes that took us to game 7 in the finals. That had to do more with LBJ putting the team on his back and Gibson having a coming out party. Of course other role players were factors.

Jon
03-16-2009, 11:54 AM
He hated the city, the fans, and the team.

You have that backwards. The "fans" booed him mercilessly, but yet the day he was told he was traded he still went out and made a scheduled community service appearance.

Larry was dealing with a lot of depression and grief combined with injury problems ... not unlike Delonte.

btw, to discount Larry's role in our run to the finals is ignorant as he played a major role in the team getting the #2 seed and the job he did on Billups was key to our win over the Pistons.

Douglar
03-16-2009, 01:09 PM
I don't have a problem with Hughes at all, he didn't fit our system. That's not his fault, any athlete would have taken the deal we gave him. If anyones to blame it's Ferry for not knowing he wouldn't fit.

The curious thing is that it was rumored at the time that Washington matched the Cavs offer, but Larry still decided to leave anyway. Ray Allen & Michael Redd were not likely to leave because they could get more guaranteed money staying where they were & Joe Johnson was restricted. Part of the reason that Larry was targetted was because he'd actually leave Washington.

A Minnow Frenzy
03-16-2009, 01:14 PM
You have that backwards. The "fans" booed him mercilessly, but yet the day he was told he was traded he still went out and made a scheduled community service appearance.

Larry was dealing with a lot of depression and grief combined with injury problems ... not unlike Delonte.

btw, to discount Larry's role in our run to the finals is ignorant as he played a major role in the team getting the #2 seed and the job he did on Billups was key to our win over the Pistons.


Nah...he's a shitpile. Dude thrashed our system, coach, fans, and the city whenever he could and still is.

Da_James_Gang
03-16-2009, 01:23 PM
Nah...he's a shitpile. Dude thrashed our system, coach, fans, and the city whenever he could and still is.

When the guy was here he was battling with injuries( i know story of his career), his brother died who he was veerryy close too, and he wasn't fitting in liked he hope. The guy was up against it. I was annoyed by the guys play on the court also but you can't discount what he was going through when he was here. And you shouldn't believe everything you read, supposedly him and Lebron didn't like each other and apparently they are pretty close along with their wives.....

The Voice
03-16-2009, 03:02 PM
The curious thing is that it was rumored at the time that Washington matched the Cavs offer, but Larry still decided to leave anyway. Ray Allen & Michael Redd were not likely to leave because they could get more guaranteed money staying where they were & Joe Johnson was restricted. Part of the reason that Larry was targetted was because he'd actually leave Washington.

The story is they low balled him though in his opinion. This is similar to what happened with the Elton brand situation with the Clippers.

Notice how both those worked out for both teams they left to sign with... :thumbdown

Jon
03-16-2009, 03:48 PM
The curious thing is that it was rumored at the time that Washington matched the Cavs offer, but Larry still decided to leave anyway. Ray Allen & Michael Redd were not likely to leave because they could get more guaranteed money staying where they were & Joe Johnson was restricted. Part of the reason that Larry was targetted was because he'd actually leave Washington.

Larry wanted to get paid like Arenas and Jamison and was told to go test the market and come back and talk to them. The Wizards didn't want to overpay for Hughes, and there's a possibility that their late attempt to pay up was just window dressing to appease the fans.

I know if I was Danny Ferry, and I was willing to do whatever it takes to sign a free-agent, my presentation would go like this:

Ferry: If we can meet your terms will you agree to sign with us without trying to play us off the Wizards?

Hughes: Yes. The Wizards disrespected me. I'm just looking to get paid what I think I'm deserved.

Ferry: So, what are you looking for?

Hughes: The same as 'Twan and Gil, somewhere around $13m per year. I was never looking for the max.

Ferry: How about if we throw some likely incentives in to the contract to keep our cap number down so we can sign some other guys?

Hughes: That's cool.

Ferry: Welcome aboard. Sign here.

Hughes: Ouch! Damn.

Ferry: What's the matter?

Hughes: I think I just fractured my finger signing my name. But don't worry. I played the last half of last season with a broken thumb.

Ferry: That's cool. We've investigated all your previous injuries and determined they were all freak accidents just like this one.

Hughes: Yeah. I'm sure something like this will never happen again ...

Jon
03-16-2009, 03:50 PM
Nah...he's a shitpile. Dude thrashed our system, coach, fans, and the city whenever he could and still is.

Actually, while he was a member of the team, he never said anything that LeBron hadn't also said.

wizman23
03-16-2009, 03:59 PM
Sticking up for Hughes and giving him the "benefit of the doubt" is almost as bad as saying that Boozer is a saint and never did anything bad in regards to Gund and back stabbing him. All you "I feel sorry for Larry people" really REALLY need to get a grip on reality.

Pioneer10
03-16-2009, 04:01 PM
All that needs to be said from my perspective is he's no longer a Cav and I feel quite happy typing those words particularly the "no longer" portion. Hughes is essentially gone from my consciousness now just like the the other average to below average NBA players who I really don't care about unless the Cavs happening to be playing there team.

Kongo Time
03-16-2009, 04:06 PM
larrys getting the ball and shooting and some of the time running the game by him self of course he dosnt want lebron in New York.

Wulfgar1224
03-17-2009, 12:41 AM
I never understand where the hatred from Hughes came from to be frank. Yeah, he stunk. But, Ferry was the one who signed him to that deal. You can't blame Hughes for taking the cash. From a hoops standpoint, believe me, I know what a bad fit he was for the Cavs. I just don't see how it got so personal, with the booing whenever he touched the ball business. I think that it reflected badly on Cavs fans.

A Minnow Frenzy
03-17-2009, 07:03 AM
When the guy was here he was battling with injuries( i know story of his career), his brother died who he was veerryy close too, and he wasn't fitting in liked he hope. The guy was up against it. I was annoyed by the guys play on the court also but you can't discount what he was going through when he was here. And you shouldn't believe everything you read, supposedly him and Lebron didn't like each other and apparently they are pretty close along with their wives.....

I understand what he dealt with while being here, it's unfortunate...still he gives Cleveland the proverbial stinkeye whenever he has the chance. Therefore he can eat the peanuts out of my sheeeeeeeeet.

Jon
03-17-2009, 01:22 PM
I understand what he dealt with while being here, it's unfortunate...still he gives Cleveland the proverbial stinkeye whenever he has the chance. Therefore he can eat the peanuts out of my sheeeeeeeeet.

Reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallly?

Can you dig up one quote?

One single quote where he's said anything bad about Cleveland?

I mean surely by your own standards he'd be justified. After all there are fans like you calling him a shitpile (and far worse) over things he never said or things that were misinterpreted. There are plenty of fans who booed and spat curses at him as he spent his entire time in Cleveland playing with injuries. So don't you think he'd be justified in calling out Cleveland "fans" out for being morons?

That's your standard right? If someone says something bad about you or yours, then it's all ok to insult that person right back, right?

Still ... find a quote.

A Minnow Frenzy
03-17-2009, 02:09 PM
Reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallly?

Can you dig up one quote?

One single quote where he's said anything bad about Cleveland?

I mean surely by your own standards he'd be justified. After all there are fans like you calling him a shitpile (and far worse) over things he never said or things that were misinterpreted. There are plenty of fans who booed and spat curses at him as he spent his entire time in Cleveland playing with injuries. So don't you think he'd be justified in calling out Cleveland "fans" out for being morons?

That's your standard right? If someone says something bad about you or yours, then it's all ok to insult that person right back, right?

Still ... find a quote.

ok, maybe I'm hypersensitive to players like Larry who use an undertone that everything in their situation in Cleveland is crummy. I don't have it in me to quote hunt everything or one thing that Larry has said that has displayed his feelings, but you can look at his most recent one when asked if he missed it here and he saaid "not at all". He could have atleast went through the motions and said he atleast missed his teammates, a restaurant...something. He said "not at all" Therefore he rubs me wrong yet again.

Jon
03-17-2009, 04:10 PM
Larry has already explained in other articles that just being in Cleveland had become depressing to him for numerous reasons. We're not paying him anymore, so he doesn't have to lie on our behalf.

He has a new team, a new situation, and he should be doing his best to make the most of that ... and after a terrible start ... he's being doing just that. Heck, just the other day D'Antoni was quoted as calling Hughes a "smart player". Imagine that?

So, yes, you're definitely being hypersensitive. Just let the hate go. He just didn't work out here, he didn't betray anyone, he didn't lie to anyone, he didn't backstab fans who'd always been faithful to him. Just let it go.

CavsRules
03-17-2009, 04:23 PM
Mate you forgot the key word there;

Laura Hughes is a STILL shitpile. He hated the city, the fans, and the team.
Unbelievable, fans will do ANYTHING they can to FIND ways to hate on Larry. He never hated the fans nor the city.

You have that backwards. The "fans" booed him mercilessly, but yet the day he was told he was traded he still went out and made a scheduled community service appearance.

Larry was dealing with a lot of depression and grief combined with injury problems ... not unlike Delonte.

btw, to discount Larry's role in our run to the finals is ignorant as he played a major role in the team getting the #2 seed and the job he did on Billups was key to our win over the Pistons.
Exactly.

People seriously just can't stand the guy, yet he was here for the best run in Cleveland Cavalier history. I can understand hating his play, hating his game, etc.. But as a person it's not like he went out and killed anybody. Its not like Hughes told himself "I'm going to sign a fat deal with Cleveland, and not make it work"... He wanted to make it work, even Brain Windhorst and I believe W&G said that. I just love how he gets zero credit for that, he gets all this bashing and hate towards him because he didn't work out. He had so many problems.. Problems any of us probably could never handle, or play freakin' basketball with in the NBA.. Add his problems to signing a huge deal and trying to make it work with that pressure. It was just a mess...

Its disgusting how far people go, as well. But it doesn't even matter.. Hughes is gone and we are a championship contender with this current support cast around LeBron, and that's all that matters.

mitchell_butler
03-19-2009, 01:46 PM
repped RCF at Madison Square Garden last night! I'm in NY w/ my girlfriend over spring break and was lucky enough to catch the Knicks vs. Nets game last night - Knicks were sporting the green St. Patty's Unis... however even w/o Devin Harris, the Nets still killed em; VC had his way with the knicks terrible D...

BUT, the point of this post is i got to see our old boy Laura last night and its nights like last night that make me not miss his sorry ass. yeah he can have 39 pt games but here's his statline from last night:

G 35:02 3-11 1-2 3-3 -10 2 4 5 1 0 0 3 1 10 pts

all around awful shot selection and of course, his inconsistency rears it ugly head as usual. will post pics soon...

Jon
03-19-2009, 02:18 PM
You didn't mention that he also had 5 assists, 4 rebounds, and just 1 to. He was second on the Knicks in "helper value". That's typical Larry. He's going to have crappy shooting nights, but he at least used to be able to contribute in other areas. Albeit I don't think any one player can help the Knick's defense...

Of course Delonte was 0 for 4 on his 3pters and 1 for 5 after the 1st quarter against Orlando (40% overall). He collected just 1 rebound, 1 assist, and a pair of steals.

Sasha was 0 for 2 with 1 rebound, 1 assist, and 1 steal.

Even when we played the Knicks and Larry had another poor shooting game, he still generated more points and a higher helper-value than either West or Sasha.

So it's not like Larry's replacements at SG are exactly the model of consistent production ...

Mo, other hand, as our #2 player on the team has been an enormous improvement offensively, but there's the rub. I don't believe Larry after all his injuries is capable of being a #2 or #3 guy on a good team anymore and he needs to shoot too much and handle the ball too much to be a be a #4 or #5 guy.

mitchell_butler
03-19-2009, 02:24 PM
well...obviously, but remember he was SUPPOSED to be our #2 guy... remember THIS larry hughes?

WAS 61 38:42 6.3 RPG 4.1 APG 2.9 SPG 22.1 PPG

just saying, i don't miss him. especially as our #2

Jon
03-19-2009, 03:08 PM
well...obviously, but remember he was SUPPOSED to be our #2 guy... remember THIS larry hughes?

WAS 61 38:42 6.3 RPG 4.1 APG 2.9 SPG 22.1 PPG

just saying, i don't miss him. especially as our #2

Me either, but that Larry doesn't exist anymore, and I don't expect him to resurface any time soon. IMO, injuries have taken their toll and he has diminishing skills; but he's always been a streaky shooter and if he can get enough shots (and avoid breaking any more fingers or thumbs) he'll have his nights.

Still, over just this month, Larry has basically given the Knicks what Mo has given the Cavs over the year. About 18ppg, about the same number of assists and rebounds, just at a lower FG%. So even diminished Larry isn't all bad. The key here is that Mo has delivered all year, while Larry could never stay healthy.

Fact is whether Larry plays good or bad doesn't matter. He couldn't stay healthy for us, and he didn't work out for us. We've moved on, and we've ended up with a much better team. We have a PG who wants to play PG, and a SG who doesn't feel compelled to keep firing away tough shots when his shot is off. Life is good.

imahustla
03-20-2009, 01:18 PM
Sticking up for Hughes and giving him the "benefit of the doubt" is almost as bad as saying that Boozer is a saint and never did anything bad in regards to Gund and back stabbing him. All you "I feel sorry for Larry people" really REALLY need to get a grip on reality.
WHOA. As bad as Laura was, I would NEVER go as far as even putting her in the same stratosphere as freaking Boozer. THAT guy (Boozer) is the epitome of douchebagery, and there is a special spot in hell reserved for him. Boozer gives Art Modell a run for his money for hatred in Cleveland, but Laura is more like Andre Rison-level. Hated, but not DESPISED.

CavsRules
03-20-2009, 01:51 PM
Do you guys hate Larry because of his game, or is it something else?

I just struggle to see someone hate him for coming here when he was a key member in the finals run we made. First time we made the finals in history and Hughes was on the team doing, not great, but decent enough to help the team... So it's not like Hughes was a reason this team sucked or anything.

Can't be his contract.. Because Danny Ferry gave him that type of deal...

Can't be because he didn't try here.. Because he did, but he just didn't fit well in Cleveland...

Only things I really see is failing to remain healthy and poor shooting and shot selection, which goes in the "I hate his game" part.

I'm not sticking up for him or anything.. Just wondering. The fact a person mentioned he is worse or almost as worse as Boozer is amazing...

Mdog1
03-20-2009, 02:03 PM
Do you guys hate Larry because of his game, or is it something else?

I just struggle to see someone hate him for coming here when he was a key member in the finals run we made. First time we made the finals in history and Hughes was on the team doing, not great, but decent enough to help the team... So it's not like Hughes was a reason this team sucked or anything.

Can't be his contract.. Because Danny Ferry gave him that type of deal...

Can't be because he didn't try here.. Because he did, but he just didn't fit well in Cleveland...

Only things I really see is failing to remain healthy and poor shooting and shot selection, which goes in the "I hate his game" part.

I'm not sticking up for him or anything.. Just wondering. The fact a person mentioned he is worse or almost as worse as Boozer is amazing...

Let me preface this by saying I am glad we got rid of him, because of the team we now have. But I do miss Larry. He is what we need at the two IMO. No he is not a killer shooter, but his shot is decent enough to get by, and his D is something that we have missed on the perimiter IMO. Larry was perfect for this D and with him and James on the perimiter we would be fairly unstoppable in that regard. But at last we are 54-13, and I would not trade any of those wins for Larry. Although I might trade Wally!

CavsRules
03-20-2009, 02:29 PM
Let me preface this by saying I am glad we got rid of him, because of the team we now have. But I do miss Larry. He is what we need at the two IMO. No he is not a killer shooter, but his shot is decent enough to get by, and his D is something that we have missed on the perimiter IMO. Larry was perfect for this D and with him and James on the perimiter we would be fairly unstoppable in that regard. But at last we are 54-13, and I would not trade any of those wins for Larry. Although I might trade Wally!

I'm Hughes' biggest fan/supporter.. And I'm very pleased he isn't in Cleveland anymore, because the team we have now is by far better than the team that made the finals. I think if Larry would've taken a role as the shooting guard that attacked the basket(If only he could stay healthy like before), and not settle for bad shot, he'd be good here with this current team. But he'd probably not agree to do so. His defense is viewed as "overrated" by some Cavalier fans, but I didn't even know it was actually rated very high. He doesn't "shut down" his guy most nights, but hes a good defender who can get into the passing lanes to create some turnovers.

Hughes would never accept the role of being a guy who can't shoot a ton and doesn't have the freedom to do whatever he pleases. As much as it hurts for me to say, Larry just doesn't want to be a winner. And it's a surprise to me.. Because early on in his career he wasn't selfish and he wasn't a guy that would complain.. The effect of losing his brother and all the issues he had here in Cleveland changed him, I guess. And it's sad to see.

Man Called X
03-20-2009, 02:31 PM
I'm Hughes' biggest fan/supporter.. And I'm very pleased he isn't in Cleveland anymore, because the team we have now is by far better than the team that made the finals. I think if Larry would've taken a role as the shooting guard that attacked the basket(If only he could stay healthy like before), and not settle for bad shot, he'd be good here with this current team. But he'd probably not agree to do so. His defense is viewed as "overrated" by some Cavalier fans, but I didn't even know it was actually rated very high. He doesn't "shut down" his guy most nights, but hes a good defender who can get into the passing lanes to create some turnovers.

Hughes would never accept the role of being a guy who can't shoot a ton and doesn't have the freedom to do whatever he pleases. As much as it hurts for me to say, Larry just doesn't want to be a winner. And it's a surprise to me.. Because early on in his career he wasn't selfish and he wasn't a guy that would complain.. The effect of losing his brother and all the issues he had here in Cleveland changed him, I guess. And it's sad to see.

No, he's pretty much always been the same way. He complained in Philly, he complained in GS, and he complained in DC. His ego just got bigger by association with Agent Zero.

pl4tinum
03-20-2009, 02:32 PM
Other than the occasional steal and a touch of perimeter d, he brings nothing but losses.

CavsRules
03-20-2009, 03:38 PM
No, he's pretty much always been the same way. He complained in Philly, he complained in GS, and he complained in DC. His ego just got bigger by association with Agent Zero.
I rarely heard him complain on all of those teams, to be honest. Maybe I wasn't reading much...

Other than the occasional steal and a touch of perimeter d, he brings nothing but losses.

He brought us so many losses, huh? Yet we have our 1st conference championship in team history when he was on the team, and actually contributed.

Don't see your logic there.

Mdog1
03-20-2009, 03:41 PM
Other than the occasional steal and a touch of perimeter d, he brings nothing but losses.

Yes I remember the days that we were losing. We lost 50 games a year when he was here, we lost in the first round every single year, and we didn't make the finals.

Do not blame every thing on one player. It was hardly all Larrys fault that we lost a game. Sure he was a bad shooter, but that is not his fault. It is Ferrys for thinking that Larry could actually be the player that James needed to win a championship. Larry was a slasher, James is a slasher it was not a match made in heaven.

I bet that you are the same person that was very excited that we got Larry in the first place.

Maximus
03-20-2009, 05:00 PM
Do you guys hate Larry because of his game, or is it something else?


Read what this guy said below....he nailed it.




Larry just doesn't want to be a winner.

Maximus
03-20-2009, 05:16 PM
I rarely heard him complain on all of those teams, to be honest. Maybe I wasn't reading much...

Just because it wasn't in the paper doesn't mean he wasn't complaining....he was. The reason many people don't care for Larry wasn't just a single reason, it was all of it added together - the shooting, the injuries, the complaining, the loser mentality. Larry's attitude as a whole was a problem for the TEAM. We were trying to build chemistry, trying to build a dynasty and that was never going to happen with him in the locker room. In fact, I don't think he will ever be part of a champion. Larry is a decent guy, he's just not a winner and I dont think he ever will be.

Larry wasn't alone in the bad attitude department. Damon, Ira, Donyell and Shannon all had their moments too...and that's why they were traded with him. The good news is that this team has incredible chemistry. Almost everyone knows their role and content with it.

CavsRules
03-20-2009, 05:46 PM
Read what this guy said below....he nailed it.
That goes along with his "game", as I stated.


Just because it wasn't in the paper doesn't mean he wasn't complaining....he was.
I know he complained HERE, I was talking about his overall career. I didn't see much complaining from him in Washington or Philly, or Golden State.



The reason many people don't care for Larry wasn't just a single reason, it was all of it added together - the shooting, the injuries, the complaining, the loser mentality. Larry's attitude as a whole was a problem for the TEAM. We were trying to build chemistry, trying to build a dynasty and that was never going to happen with him in the locker room. In fact, I don't think he will ever be part of a champion. Larry is a decent guy, he's just not a winner and I dont think he ever will be.
And sadly.. I agree.. I know his attitude sucked here, as well. I can't really defend anything he did here.. Its not like he didn't try though, it just didn't work out. Maybe if he did have a better attitude he might have worked out, but his game still didn't fit here.. His old game did, though.



Larry wasn't alone in the bad attitude department. Damon, Ira, Donyell and Shannon all had their moments too...and that's why they were traded with him. The good news is that this team has incredible chemistry. Almost everyone knows their role and content with it.
That's not good news, that's great news. As much as it hurt to see Larry go because he was playing along side my favorite team and my second favorite player, it was the best for the team. So nonetheless, it worked out both ways. Larry has freedom to do whatever he wants in NY and we are a better overall team and have a great chance to win a championship.

Let it be known.. I'm not saying Cavs fans can't hate Larry, but it's just stupid to see some take it too far. Some even dig down and say Larry, as person, is terrible. That's the only thing that gets me pissed.. But hey, what ya gonna do.

World B ThAreee
03-20-2009, 06:00 PM
What's to like about the guy's game? He's selfish, he can't shoot from the perimeter with any consistency, so the only way he can help the team consistently is to slash. However, if a cat farts on him, he's out 4 weeks, so he doesn't slash, he just shoots from the outside at a 39% clip, even if the BEST PLAYER IN THE GAME is on his team. And he somehow still ends up missing 20 games a year.

I'm sorry, CR, but I don't see any redeeming qualities in Larry Hughes as a high-paid NBA player who came with high expectations. I'm not saying he's a bad guy... he's probably a nice guy. However, he'll never be a part of a winning organization. Never ever.

camakazee
03-20-2009, 06:46 PM
That goes along with his "game", as I stated.

Not wanting to do what it takes to be a winner goes along with someone's game more than their attitude? That's news to me. I think him not wanting to be a winner goes moreso with this criteria you were searching:



Can't be because he didn't try here.. Because he did, but he just didn't fit well in Cleveland...


He tried here in the sense that he tried individually and played his game. And I do give him credit because Larry was a very good individual defender and regardless of his complaints and displeasure at the time, he seemingly always brought it on defense. However, he didn't try in the sense that every championship ring-holding role player has.

He wasn't willing to sacrifice his XX number of shots he took per game, as if it was written into his contract. He wasn't willing to work within the confines of a half-court offense, calling Mike Brown out on several occasions. Instead he wanted to bring his WAS numbers over to Cleveland so he could run-n-gun, get 20 points a game, and see his mug on SportsCenter again.

Further, he didn't try in the sense that he would have to sacrifice his former role above all else. In this sense, he didn't try and didn't do what it took to be a winner. Instead he continued to play Larry-ball and take the court for him, and himself only, every night. So yes, he didn't try, and try is what it takes to be a winner. You have to want to be a winner and sacrifice.


Let it be known.. I'm not saying Cavs fans can't hate Larry, but it's just stupid to see some take it too far. Some even dig down and say Larry, as person, is terrible. That's the only thing that gets me pissed.. But hey, what ya gonna do.

They don't have enough evidence to claim Larry is a bad person just as much as you don't have the evidence to claim he's a good person. Sure, I'm a fan of a lot of the charity work he does, but this day in age so many NBA players do that. He could be an absolute asshole. Don't get offended if someone claims he's a bad person, because you don't know. Defending his personal character from your standpoint is just as ignorant as the defamation that pisses you off.

Jon
03-20-2009, 06:47 PM
However, he'll never be a part of a winning organization. Never ever.

Umm, he made it in to the 2nd round of the playoffs with the Wiz, and made it to the finals with the Cavs...

I'm glad everyone is happy with their roles now, but let's be clear about something: it's not easy playing next to a guy like LeBron who commands the ball so much, yet isn't a PG. Watching and waiting for LeBron to do something is mind-numbing and habit forming. The difference between playing with LeBron and Allen Iverson (something Hughes has done) is that at least LeBron has a position and LeBron can be effective off the ball.

But most players in the league need plays run for them and consistent touches, and it's very hard playing in a system where the playmaker is winging it all the time. This is why Jordan was moved off the point in Chicago and why they forced the triangle down his throat.

The thing is, it's no crime not to work out or be a bad fit or to get hurt ... it was just impossible to move Larry until a) His play picked up, and b) Someone with a worse contract came on the market - so we made the best of it.

The hate is just dumb. Larry didn't injure himself on purpose or try to hurt the team. Move on.

Pioneer10
03-20-2009, 06:53 PM
I would have liked Hughes if he didn't constantly try to go for the 15-20 foot pull up jumper with a guy in his face routine. He had a lot of pluses (tried on defense, ballhandler, able to guard multiple positions, decent rebounder for his postion) that couldn't be highlighted because he was such an inefficient scorer. Maybe the injuries took away his ability to drive but you also have to blame the inflexible mentality that he had where he couldn't adopt his game to his lowered athletic level.

hn3108
03-20-2009, 06:57 PM
Although Hughes wasn't the best fit here. We have to remember he wasn't exactly our first choice either. We had Redd, Allen, Joe Johnson, even Bobby Simmons and potenital FA pick ups that summer. Redd and Allen got paid, Joe Johnson's offer could have been matched so even if we made an offer the Suns could have potentially matched it and left us with nothing. As for Simmons he is MIA. Hughes was a good pick up at the time. We were showing Lebron we will imporve around him and althoug Hughes didn't work well here he was part of a team that turned it around. If we never signed Larry Hughes we could have never traded him for the players we have now.

Jon
03-20-2009, 07:08 PM
Not wanting to do what it takes to be a winner goes along with someone's game more than their attitude? That's news to me. I think him not wanting to be a winner goes moreso with this criteria you were searching:

Huh? He did what he was asked.


He wasn't willing to sacrifice his XX number of shots he took per game, as if it was written into his contract.

Not true. He realized he was going to be second fiddle in Cleveland from the get go. It was clear he'd be taking less shots and be asked to do more on D - often covering the PG or the SF depending what we needed.


He wasn't willing to work within the confines of a half-court offense, calling Mike Brown out on several occasions.

Sure he was willing, but our "half-court offense" stopped existing after Larry got hurt and we transitioned over to LeISO 24/7.


Instead he wanted to bring his WAS numbers over to Cleveland so he could run-n-gun, get 20 points a game, and see his mug on SportsCenter again.

Actually LeBron brought up the topic of bringing the ball up faster and shooting earlier in the shot clock before Larry mentioned it. They were just in agreement. Brown let them try it, and within a couple weeks they came around and were referring to the team as having a defensive identity.


Further, he didn't try in the sense that he would have to sacrifice his former role above all else. In this sense, he didn't try and didn't do what it took to be a winner. Instead he continued to play Larry-ball and take the court for him, and himself only, every night. So yes, he didn't try, and try is what it takes to be a winner. You have to want to be a winner and sacrifice.

Umm, there's no evidence of this. Larry has never been a black hole on offense. Just like Delonte, when Larry was physically able to drive, he created a lot of extra offense for our bigs. Was his shot selection questionable? Sure. So is LeBron's, but fortunately there aren't too many people hating LBJ for that.


He could be an absolute asshole. Don't get offended if someone claims he's a bad person, because you don't know. Defending his personal character from your standpoint is just as ignorant as the defamation that pisses you off.

Now this is just downright wrong. If someone wants to claim to know Larry personally and hates him for what he's done to them ... umm they should STFU and keep it private, heh ... but that's not what's going on here. You have a player being hated on because HE DISSAPOINTED some people who RESENT the fact that he got paid $13M to help our team and didn't work out.

That's their problem, not Larry's.

Then people went nuts when Larry admitted he thinks there are some things in life more important than winning basketball games.

This is something any SANE person would admit.

Does that mean he doesn't want to win?

Of course not.

Does it mean he won't do what's asked of him by his Coach?

No!

Does it mean he might be unhappy in his job?

Well, yes.

Do you want players to be happy in their jobs?

Of course. It leads to better chemistry.

So what's the problem?

Larry wasn't able to do what we need our SG to do. He became (or was) a bad fit.

That's all...

Pioneer10
03-20-2009, 07:15 PM
Umm, there's no evidence of this. Larry has never been a black hole on offense. Just like Delonte, when Larry was physically able to drive, he created a lot of extra offense for our bigs. Was his shot selection questionable? Sure. So is LeBron's, but fortunately there aren't too many people hating LBJ for that.

This doesn't pass the smell test. Hughes TS% during his Cleveland tenure was less then .500. There can be different shades of gray in terms "bad shot selection": Lebron's can be bad but Hughes was consistently atrocious. In this case the difference in shades is like comparing black and white

camakazee
03-20-2009, 07:17 PM
Now this is just downright wrong. If someone wants to claim to know Larry personally and hates him for what he's done to them ... umm they should STFU and keep it private, heh ... but that's not what's going on here. You have a player being hated on because HE DISSAPOINTED some people who RESENT the fact that he got paid $13M to help our team and didn't work out.


I'm not defending anyone that is actually hating the man for his time here. I think thats petty and unjustified, because they do not know Larry the man. However, like I stated, it is equally ignorant to insist that Larry is a great person, just because he's your favorite player and you like his public persona.

When push comes to shove, insisting the character of a person you don't know is ignorance. All we, as fans, know of these men is their persona, not their character.

CavsRules
03-20-2009, 07:39 PM
Not wanting to do what it takes to be a winner goes along with someone's game more than their attitude? That's news to me. I think him not wanting to be a winner goes moreso with this criteria you were searching:
Whatever Mike wanted Larry to do, I believe he did it. He played point guard when they wanted him too, he did whatever they asked.. Dunno where you got that.


He tried here in the sense that he tried individually and played his game. And I do give him credit because Larry was a very good individual defender and regardless of his complaints and displeasure at the time, he seemingly always brought it on defense. However, he didn't try in the sense that every championship ring-holding role player has.
Larry's game was being an attacker, he shot the ball more than he slashed during his time here, that's for sure. Now I'm not saying he was told to sit out there and throw up jumpers, but when LeBron James attacks. He doesn't usually pass it to another slasher.. He passes it to a shooter. Its why Mo Williams, Z, Boobie, Delonte, etc all fit here nicely because of the game plane. Hughes was no jumper shooter, if anything his jumper was mediocre. He really shaded away from his game that made him a good overall player. But to say he didn't "try" to fit in here is wrong.. Because he did what he was asked to do.



He wasn't willing to sacrifice his XX number of shots he took per game, as if it was written into his contract. He wasn't willing to work within the confines of a half-court offense, calling Mike Brown out on several occasions. Instead he wanted to bring his WAS numbers over to Cleveland so he could run-n-gun, get 20 points a game, and see his mug on SportsCenter again.
LeBron wanted to run on offense, as well.. In fact, I believe most, if not all of the team was in favor of it.. Mike Brown was open to it, but wasn't favoring it.


Further, he didn't try in the sense that he would have to sacrifice his former role above all else. In this sense, he didn't try and didn't do what it took to be a winner. Instead he continued to play Larry-ball and take the court for him, and himself only, every night. So yes, he didn't try, and try is what it takes to be a winner. You have to want to be a winner and sacrifice.
Larry isn't a winner.. Its already been said, he has a piss-poor attitude, etc, etc.. Its ALL been said before. I'm wasn't even defending him, I was just stating what I think of the whole issue and the general hate towards Hughes, but it seems like people just hate the guy so bad they get pissed off if everybody else DOESN'T hate him.

Jon really made a good post, agreed 100%.

Jon
03-20-2009, 11:06 PM
When push comes to shove, insisting the character of a person you don't know is ignorance. All we, as fans, know of these men is their persona, not their character.

Ok, that's fine, but we can comment on his public persona and what we do know of him.

For instance, Larry has pumped gas for folks ... LeBron reportedly was a cheap tipper, Larry hearts strippers, etc, .... ;)

Jon
03-20-2009, 11:33 PM
This doesn't pass the smell test. Hughes TS% during his Cleveland tenure was less then .500. There can be different shades of gray in terms "bad shot selection": Lebron's can be bad but Hughes was consistently atrocious. In this case the difference in shades is like comparing black and white

On jump shots Larry is a little better than LeBron: this year, last year, whatever. LeBron is of course a beast when driving, whereas Larry hasn't been able to drive effectively for a few years now. He used to be really good. Larry would likely be an even better shooter if he didn't keep breaking fingers and thumbs.

But regardless, throughout his career he's been a streaky volume shooter. He needs a certain volume of shots because by the time the 4th quarter roles around he usually can find the range. He's actually much like LeBron in this respect in that they'll both take bad shots during the course of the game in order to find the range for the end.

But it has nothing to do with "smell test", you can hate the fact he's a scorer, and not a shooter. Kind of a throw back to the bad old days when a lot of shooting guards shot around 40% - but that's not what I was talking about. A black hole is someone you pass it to, and you never see the ball again. Larry is a willing passer especially when he can drive the ball - and unlike someone like Mo he never used to have a problem initiating contact to get a free trip to the line. Ask Chauncey Billups? Getting easy points at the line when you can't score buckets any other way is an amazing tool.

What he's become after injuries is kind of blah. It seems people can't even remember the days he did more than play passing lanes. Once upon a time he used his wingspan to get his hands on the ball and flick it away for steals.

He kind of stopped doing that so agressively though after breaking his thumb, fracturing his finger, smashing his knee, destroying his foot, etc ...

I mean have a little sympathy for the guy... Daniel Gibson hurt his friggen toe and suddenly he can't do anything right. Unfortunately a number of fair weather fans are already starting to turn on him, but it's just his toe and perhaps his confidence. He hasn't suffered anywhere near the number of injuries Hughes has.

But even at his best in his hey-day Hughes was never a great shooter, but he had all-around skills. That's what made him valuable. Before he broke his thumb, he was on his way to the All Star game and was clearly the Wizard's MVP ... not Gilbert, nor Antawn. Was he too redundant skill set wise with LeBron? Maybe. We'll never know cause he was damaged goods from the first day he took the floor for the Cavs thanks to the fractured finger that occured in training camp.

Ferry rolled the dice that Hughes's injury history was just freak injuries due to hustle plays and wouldn't re-occur.

He was wrong.

Pioneer10
03-20-2009, 11:52 PM
On jump shots Larry is a little better than LeBron: this year, last year, whatever. LeBron is of course a beast when driving, whereas Larry hasn't been able to drive effectively for a few years now. He used to be really good. Larry would likely be an even better shooter if he didn't keep breaking fingers and thumbs.

But regardless, throughout his career he's been a streaky volume shooter. He needs a certain volume of shots because by the time the 4th quarter roles around he usually can find the range. He's actually much like LeBron in this respect in that they'll both take bad shots during the course of the game in order to find the range for the end.

But it has nothing to do with "smell test", you can hate the fact he's a scorer, and not a shooter. Kind of a throw back to the bad old days when a lot of shooting guards shot around 40% - but that's not what I was talking about. A black hole is someone you pass it to, and you never see the ball again. Larry is a willing passer especially when he can drive the ball - and unlike someone like Mo he never used to have a problem initiating contact to get a free trip to the line. Ask Chauncey Billups? Getting easy points at the line when you can't score buckets any other way is an amazing tool.

What he's become after injuries is kind of blah. It seems people can't even remember the days he did more than play passing lanes. Once upon a time he used his wingspan to get his hands on the ball and flick it away for steals.

He kind of stopped doing that so agressively though after breaking his thumb, fracturing his finger, smashing his knee, destroying his foot, etc ...

I mean have a little sympathy for the guy... Daniel Gibson hurt his friggen toe and suddenly he can't do anything right. Unfortunately a number of fair weather fans are already starting to turn on him, but it's just his toe and perhaps his confidence. He hasn't suffered anywhere near the number of injuries Hughes has.

But even at his best in his hey-day Hughes was never a great shooter, but he had all-around skills. That's what made him valuable. Before he broke his thumb, he was on his way to the All Star game and was clearly the Wizard's MVP ... not Gilbert, nor Antawn. Was he too redundant skill set wise with LeBron? Maybe. We'll never know cause he was damaged goods from the first day he took the floor for the Cavs thanks to the fractured finger that occured in training camp.

Ferry rolled the dice that Hughes's injury history was just freak injuries due to hustle plays and wouldn't re-occur.

He was wrong.
Umm ok: I'm not really sure what your diatribe really has much to do with anything let alone my post. Guess what when you consistently have a TS of less .500 and you continue to put up shots: you are a black hole.

I could have cared less is he wasn't a shooter if he was really a "scorer". He was simply not a "scorer" in Cleveland as at least the way most people think of it is someone who can score and do it efficiently (it doesn't matter if you shoot or not). Otherwise if you're putting up a ton of shots for few points: you are a chucker not a scorer. The guy put up nearly as many jumpers as Mo and he hit a fraction of them.

Boobie is an interesting comparison as he's played better when he's tried to do less. If you weren't so bothered by your everyone must love Larry campaign, I think it would be easy to understand that a lot of people would have liked Larry positives if he simply scaled back what he tried to do on offense with the off balance jumper crap. When you're as inefficient as he was and wasted as many possessions: it clouds fans outlook on everything and rightfully so. It was his failing that he couldn't adjust mentally to what he was capable of doing particularly since he still could do things that are helpful (defense, ballhandling, passing instead of shooting)

Jon
03-21-2009, 03:13 AM
I could have cared less is he wasn't a shooter if he was really a "scorer". He was simply not a "scorer" in Cleveland as at least the way most people think of it is someone who can score and do it efficiently (it doesn't matter if you shoot or not). Otherwise if you're putting up a ton of shots for few points: you are a chucker not a scorer. The guy put up nearly as many jumpers as Mo and he hit a fraction of them.

Like usual your rather hung up over TS% and efficiency, how well someone shoots has nothing to do with whether they're a "blackhole" just whether they're a good shooter or not, and efficiency only matters if it can be delivered when you need it.

While a pure shooter is waiting in a corner for someone to draw away his defender and pass him the ball, his team may be losing the game. So you have to have guys who can create for themselves or for those shooters. If they can do it efficiently all the better, but shots don't create themself.


If you weren't so bothered by your everyone must love Larry campaign, I think it would be easy to understand that a lot of people would have liked Larry positives if he simply scaled back what he tried to do on offense with the off balance jumper crap. When you're as inefficient as he was and wasted as many possessions: it clouds fans outlook on everything and rightfully so. It was his failing that he couldn't adjust mentally to what he was capable of doing particularly since he still could do things that are helpful (defense, ballhandling, passing instead of shooting)

No. No way. The typical fan was not going to accept Larry earning $13m and serving a limited role and of course Larry wasn't going to accept that either. His shots were already cut by about 5 per game when he came to Cleveland and as I already explained he's a volume shooter. He needs touches and needs shots to find his rhythm. If you can't find a guy like Larry enough shots in your offense you have little choice but to bench him like the Bulls ended up doing when Hinrich returned.

And I've never demanded anyone should "love" Larry, I just think it's moronic that there's people who hate the guy - and most of them hate him for completely fabricated reasons.

B Mac
03-21-2009, 09:29 AM
Almost everyone knows their role and content with it.

Wally?

Jon
03-21-2009, 10:05 AM
Content is probably too strong of a word. I doubt many of the players with a diminished role are content with that, but happy to be part of the team and ready to contribute if their number is called ... I'd believe.

Nicky
03-21-2009, 11:09 AM
I will always dislike Larry Hughes as a professional basketball player. His lack luster performances while playing for Cleveland are all I need to go on. He's a selfish team mate. He wants a team to build around him, not the other way around. Not a team player!

Although he seems happy in his new role with NY right now, it could all change next season. He's in a happy place (now).

All I know is anytime we play against his team, and I'm at that game, I will heckle the mess outta him. :chuckles:

Pioneer10
03-21-2009, 11:15 AM
Like usual your rather hung up over TS% and efficiency, how well someone shoots has nothing to do with whether they're a "blackhole" just whether they're a good shooter or not, and efficiency only matters if it can be delivered when you need it.

While a pure shooter is waiting in a corner for someone to draw away his defender and pass him the ball, his team may be losing the game. So you have to have guys who can create for themselves or for those shooters. If they can do it efficiently all the better, but shots don't create themself.

This makes no sense: who cares if a player creates shots if he is blowing several more possessions by taking bad shots?

Statisically you are really overrating his passing as he got about less then one assist/game more one to/game. Not necessarily a bad assist/TO ratio but nothing special either. Compare to this to his abysmal TS% and it no contest: bad shots = wasted possessions. You're trying to define Larry as a playmaker and you can't be a playmaker when you shoot you're team in foot more often then you create oppurtunities



No. No way. The typical fan was not going to accept Larry earning $13m and serving a limited role and of course Larry wasn't going to accept that either. His shots were already cut by about 5 per game when he came to Cleveland and as I already explained he's a volume shooter. He needs touches and needs shots to find his rhythm. If you can't find a guy like Larry enough shots in your offense you have little choice but to bench him like the Bulls ended up doing when Hinrich returned.

And I've never demanded anyone should "love" Larry, I just think it's moronic that there's people who hate the guy - and most of them hate him for completely fabricated reasons.

Here's your typical spiel where you equate what "typical" or "everyone" is saying and try to equate to anyone who disagrees with you. Yes I despised his game and as I've said plenty of time it's because he sucked on the court IMO. (He may have been a much bigger cancer in the locker room but I'm not privy to those details so I give him the benefit of the doubt). I think it's moronic that you can't seem to get that Larry's selfish game would turn people off as well and his game was selfish even though you continue to believe he was somehow creating oppurtunities that don't show up anywere statiscally.

What he was able to do with the Wiz was certainly what he was not doing with the Cavs: get to the line and get people involved. When he was unable or unwilling to go the line and relied exclusively on the pull up jumpers, his assist ratios in Cleveland dropped dramatically compared to his time with the Wizards and this is despite playing the PG positions.

Even in your reasoning how could he not know that he was going to be second fiddle to Lebron and play in a much different offense then a run and gun style??? That in no way is the Cavs fault but if that style and his shots meant so much to him that he wouldn't be happy in Cleveland he should have stayed with the Wiz where he would still be a very rich man. On the other hand there are players who have adopted there game to injuries: look at a guy like Grant Hill who has altered his game and concentrated on things like defense and passing. As I've already stated, Hughes was certainly capable of this sort of transformation as he has solid skills in other places which he could have emphasized

Jon
03-21-2009, 04:01 PM
This makes no sense: who cares if a player creates shots if he is blowing several more possessions by taking bad shots?

I already explained, I'm not going to bother doing so again.


Statisically you are really overrating his passing as he got about less then one assist/game more one to/game.

Umm, he's a SG, not a PG. Getting nearly 4.7 apg from your SG is a boon. Getting 6 rpg from your SG is a boon. Getting 3 spg is a boon. etc. FG% is only one aspect of a player's game.


What he was able to do with the Wiz was certainly what he was not doing with the Cavs: get to the line and get people involved. When he was unable or unwilling to go the line and relied exclusively on the pull up jumpers, his assist ratios in Cleveland dropped dramatically compared to his time with the Wizards and this is despite playing the PG positions.

It doesn't matter what "position" he was playing, due to his injuries he simply couldn't drive, get to the rim, or elevate like he used to.




Even in your reasoning how could he not know that he was going to be second fiddle to Lebron and play in a much different offense then a run and gun style???

Of course he knew he was going to play second fiddle, and they didn't play "run and gun" in DC, they played a Princeton motion offense. Of course we've had 3 or 4 different offenses since Larry joined the team, but we did initally try to come up with an offense where Larry and LeBron would take turns driving and creating, but when Hughes went out to get his finger operated on - that left us only with LeISO. When Larry started playing at the point, he finally got involved in the offense again, and our offense became a lot better.


That in no way is the Cavs fault but if that style and his shots meant so much to him that he wouldn't be happy in Cleveland he should have stayed with the Wiz where he would still be a very rich man.

You're naieve if you believe that. It's always a two way street, and it's the GMs job to make sure the players he brings in can be fit in to the system the coach wants to run.


On the other hand there are players who have adopted there game to injuries: look at a guy like Grant Hill who has altered his game and concentrated on things like defense and passing. As I've already stated, Hughes was certainly capable of this sort of transformation as he has solid skills in other places which he could have emphasized

Not really. The last time Hill averaged more than 3 apg was 4 years ago when he had 3.3 apg oh but with 2.4 topg and oh btw he took 15 fga per game. Fortunately for Grant, he's been a better shooter. Still, not all is lost for Hughes, he's improved his 3pt%, but he was never close in talent to Hill.

Pioneer10
03-21-2009, 09:25 PM
I already explained, I'm not going to bother doing so again.

Your reasoning sucked, I'm not going to bother explaining why again



Umm, he's a SG, not a PG. Getting nearly 4.7 apg from your SG is a boon. Getting 6 rpg from your SG is a boon. Getting 3 spg is a boon. etc. FG% is only one aspect of a player's game.We used him as a PG and he handled the ball as much as a PG. FG%, FT%, TS%, eFG% and noting how many shots he put are a huge aspects of a player's game particularly one who likes to shoot.




It doesn't matter what "position" he was playing, due to his injuries he simply couldn't drive, get to the rim, or elevate like he used to.Tsk tsk, this was NOT the whole problem. He didn't adjust his game nor did he look like on the court he tried to. His ability to be a "scorer" which again I think you're trying to claim he was a playmaker was trashed by this. He could AND had the ability to emphasize other positives aspects of his game



Of course he knew he was going to play second fiddle, and they didn't play "run and gun" in DC, they played a Princeton motion offense. Of course we've had 3 or 4 different offenses since Larry joined the team, but we did initally try to come up with an offense where Larry and LeBron would take turns driving and creating, but when Hughes went out to get his finger operated on - that left us only with LeISO. When Larry started playing at the point, he finally got involved in the offense again, and our offense became a lot better.Catch-22: he got involved in the offense but he then complained about the role that got him more shots. His mentality again causing fans reason not to like him (not just his injuries and personal trouble)



You're naieve if you believe that. It's always a two way street, and it's the GMs job to make sure the players he brings in can be fit in to the system the coach wants to run.You're naive for believing your attitude towards Hughes isn't affected by the fact you followed him with the Wizards. You keep on making arguments for Larry based on what he did inhis contract year, not with what he did with the Cavs or tried to do



Not really. The last time Hill averaged more than 3 apg was 4 years ago when he had 3.3 apg oh but with 2.4 topg and oh btw he took 15 fga per game. Fortunately for Grant, he's been a better shooter. Still, not all is lost for Hughes, he's improved his 3pt%, but he was never close in talent to Hill.lol are you talking about the Magic with a rookie Howard and Nelson whose best player was Steve Francis (not the real equivlent as playing with the Cavs)? Hill still had a TS% of .565 that year and he's athletic ability has faltered he's found himself concentrating on defense and fitting a role on offense. He's got a solid +/- on the Suns with the skills that Hughes had.

The Oi
03-22-2009, 09:00 AM
Larry sucked for the Cavs. That's all that needs to be said. Nothing left to be debated.

Lee
03-22-2009, 09:23 AM
I always thought Larry was not as bad as everyone claimed. He had his health issues, some of which were flukey in nature. He wasnt as good of a fit at sg as we all initially hoped, but we did play much better when he was healthy. Its hard to say how well of a fit he would have been, as we didnt have anyone near as good as Mo at the point. But, without dealing hughes, our current roster could never have become what it is today. He seems like a pretty good guy, (except I hate how his boyfriend does all his talking for him). I have a hard time hating on anyone that has been as devoted of a brother and as outgoing to charity.

Am I glad Larry is gone? Ofcoure, this roster is better today than it was when he is here. Would he be a bad fit on this current team? You never know, I like west, but its hard to say what Larry's added length would bring to this team now. Its a moot point as no one will ever know.