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View Full Version : Do we need another PG/SG combo?



twenty23
08-19-2009, 01:33 AM
Im just thinking, what if one of Mo, Delonte or parker get injured? Which atleast one will most likely, we'd have virtually NO backups at the guard positions. Mo and Delonte have a history of having some health problems and parker is pretty old.

Obviously im not talking about trading major pieces, but i think itd be a good idea to either make a small trade or sign someone.

Anybody agree or disagree?

Also, Pavlovic is going to get bought out. would anyone want him with the vet min? dont forget, with confidence hes not bad.

Frank Stallone
08-19-2009, 01:37 AM
Im just thinking, what if one of Mo, Delonte or parker get injured? Which atleast one will most likely, we'd have virtually NO backups at the guard positions. Mo and Delonte have a history of having some health problems and parker is pretty old.

Obviously im not talking about trading major pieces, but i think itd be a good idea to either make a small trade or sign someone.

Anybody agree or disagree?

Also, Pavlovic is going to get bought out. would anyone want him with the vet min? dont forget, with confidence hes not bad.

I think the major consensus around here has been yes. More of a vet PG i guess.

Dirk Gently
08-19-2009, 01:39 AM
I think if it came to it, LeBron could provide better quality point play than any available third string backup PG who might be available. Moon would get some more minutes at the 3, which again is better than any other alternative out there. It wouldn't be an ideal situation, but I think it gives the Cavs a better lineup than any other option out there.

twenty23
08-19-2009, 01:51 AM
Flip murry would be interesting. but im not really liking have 3 6'3 and under guards on the team getting majority of the guards minutes.
Im trying to think if there are any teams looking to get rid of a long contract of a pg/sg that doesnt have a big numbered contract.

Rimage
08-19-2009, 02:09 AM
No, we don't. We have 4 guys on this roster right now that can handle the ball well enough. Mo and Lebron can both handle and pass very well, and Parker and West are both very capable to cover that position. We don't have a lot of diversity in the frontcourt though, which seems to be what Ferry is addressing.

I just don't see the benefit of bring in a Speedy Claxton or Brevin Knight when they aren't going to play an better than Kinsey and I would rather see what Danny Green can do.

twenty23
08-19-2009, 03:47 AM
I;m talking about a devin brown type. can handle the rock and play the 1 and 2 at backup decently. and wont need alot of minutes.

camakazee
08-19-2009, 04:00 AM
I;m talking about a devin brown type. can handle the rock and play the 1 and 2 at backup decently. and wont need alot of minutes.

You mean like an Anthony Parker type player?

D-westfan
08-19-2009, 04:07 AM
I think, if he does well, we should keep Russel Robinson, and cut Jawad... and Sign Kurz as well.

Northstar
08-19-2009, 04:34 AM
I think we should have the intent of signing Russel Robinson and cutting Jawad if Robinson does well in TC. This also assumes we sign Kurz.

If we have Z, Shaq, AV, JJ, DJ, Powe and Kurz at the PF/C positions, there are only 8 spots left. Moon, Green, Mo, Delonte, Boobie, Parker, and LBJ fill up 7 of those spots. We already have 5 PFs on the roster (AV, JJ, DJ, Powe, Kurz), so I don't see much need for another PF, and AV is as good as we're going to find as a 3rd string center. I'd say we're pretty much set with bigs. Even LBJ can play some PF when we go small, so we really have 6 players who can effectively play PF on the roster.

Green Lantern
08-19-2009, 07:58 AM
Here we go again...debating about another PG...Ferry even has come to the conclusion the team needs a PG to play in a emergency...it's been rehashed over and over again..it'd be nice if people would stop thinking that U can just move people out of position for extended periods after seeing what happens when a particular player goes down...
A PG who could come in would allow the players to stay in their positions and not be juggled around would be a plus....

Ziggie123
08-19-2009, 07:59 AM
I'm another one that doesn't rule out Robinson making this team at the expense of Williams. I think we need to develop young players and as the 15th spot on the team (no matter who you sign) I don't expect them to play much. In fact, if thay are getting more than token minutes that means either (1) the Cavs are involved in a lot of blowouts or (2) the Cavs have a huge rash of injuries. With that said i do like CJ watson for backup PG, but realize that is unlikely to happen.

Redz West is Best
08-19-2009, 09:29 AM
3 of them are not enough (West, Boobie, Mo)? plus we have another Parker who could play 1, 2 or 3.

Green Lantern
08-19-2009, 10:15 AM
Why even consider Gibson playing the point at all?
When he did he was a turnover waiting to happen..

Beanie4Heisman
08-19-2009, 12:49 PM
I'm not opposed to having LeBron start at PG if Mo were to go down with a minor injury (out 1or 2 weeks max) and starting Moon at SF. This goes against having LeBron off the ball more on offense, but does not completely disrupt the rotation. This would also depend on the offense and sets we establish (but if it's aything like what we've seen over the years LeBron will be at point half the time anyway). However, I still would like for us to give Robinson a good hard look in training camp.

Douglar
08-19-2009, 12:53 PM
Why even consider Gibson playing the point at all?
When he did he was a turnover waiting to happen..


Gibson wasn't that bad on the turnovers by Age or by Season.

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Age
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Gib TO%
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West TO%
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Mo TO%
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20
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15.1
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl69></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl70> </TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl67 height=20>
21
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12.9
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12.6
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl70>
13.5
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22
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9.7
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15.4
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19.5
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23
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl69></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl69>
14.8
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl70>
13.4
</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl67 height=20>
24
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl69></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl69>
18.4
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl70>
15.2
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25
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl69></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl69>
12.0
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl70>
15.3
</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl68 height=20>
26
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl71> </TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl71> </TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl72>
12.7
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE style="WIDTH: 206pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=273><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 48pt" width=64><COL style="WIDTH: 61pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 2962" width=81><COL style="WIDTH: 53pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 2560" width=70><COL style="WIDTH: 44pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 2121" width=58><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" onmouseover=hl(this); onmouseout=uhl(this); height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #c5d9f1; WIDTH: 48pt; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl66 height=20 width=64>
Season
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #c5d9f1; WIDTH: 61pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl69 width=81>
Gib TO%
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #c5d9f1; WIDTH: 53pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl69 width=70>West TO%</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #c5d9f1; WIDTH: 44pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl70 width=58>
Mo TO%
</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl67 height=20>
2006-07
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl71>
15.1
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl71>
14.8
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl72>
15.2
</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl67 height=20>
2007-08
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl71>
12.9
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl71>
18.4
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl72>
15.3
</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl68 height=20>
2008-09
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl73>
9.7
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl73>
12.0
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl74>
12.7
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Now you could say his TO% was low because he didn't try to make many assists. But you could also say that it's hard for any small guard to get many assists next to Lebron.

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Season
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #c5d9f1; WIDTH: 61pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl79 width=81>
Gib Ast%
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West Ast%
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #c5d9f1; WIDTH: 44pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl66 width=58>Mo Ast%</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #c5d9f1; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl67 width=64>
LBJ Ast%
</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl69 height=20>
2006-07
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl72>
10.7
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl71>
23.5
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl73 align=right>
28.2
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl74 align=right>
29.1
</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl69 height=20>
2007-08
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl72>
13.1
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl71>
23.5
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl73 align=right>
30.0
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl74 align=right>
37.3
</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl70 height=20>
2008-09
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl75>
11.3
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl76>
16.6
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl77 align=right>
20.1
</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl78 align=right>
38.0
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

It looks like West and Mo lost about 30% of their play making opportunities when they came to Cleveland.

NarlCavs
08-19-2009, 02:05 PM
The luxury of having LeBron James on your team is his ability to do so much. If injuries hit you can easily have him play more of a PG role than he does already to fill in for the injury at PG. If Mo goes down Delonte likely shifts to the starting PG role.

I don't see a need for another combo G but another PG on the roster, while not absolutely necessary, wouldn't be a bad idea. There really isn't anyone out there still available in free agency the Cavs need to rush out an sign. They may even decide to go with what they have and only bring in a PG if a circumstance arises where there's a need for another one.
Russell Robinson is a nice training camp invite, worth a look, and does have a chance. We shouldn't believe he's an answer to anything or a certain bet to make the final roster though.

You wouldn't want to see Gibson have to play major minutes at PG for a long stretch but he can provide minutes there to help fill in for a time. At this point he's pretty much proven he doesn't have great PG ability and ideally you only want him there in limited minutes.

Most times if an injury hits you won't have a perfect solution for it. You just want to have adequate fill ins so there's not too much of a drop off.

Dirk Gently
08-19-2009, 02:07 PM
Here we go again...debating about another PG...Ferry even has come to the conclusion the team needs a PG to play in a emergency...it's been rehashed over and over again..it'd be nice if people would stop thinking that U can just move people out of position for extended periods after seeing what happens when a particular player goes down...
A PG who could come in would allow the players to stay in their positions and not be juggled around would be a plus....

Who would you get who would do a better job there than any combo of players the Cavs already have? How would you get him? Sure, if Jason Kidd would have signed for the vet minimum, the Cavs would probably be better off than they are now. But that didn't happen. Who is out there that is available (through FA or a trade), how would you get him, and what (if anything) would you have to give up to get him?

It's not that the Cavs have the PG spot locked down no matter what. It's that they have (in my opinion) better options already on the team, than any player they could pick up. And I would rather see those end of the bench players as developmental players with potential in the future, and preferably developmental bigs. If we're really worried about best case scenarios, and who we can get, lets look at that. Rather than worry about a position that is solid, has solid backups, and no obvious players available that make the team better now or in the future.

Douglar
08-19-2009, 02:57 PM
Rather than worry about a position that is solid, has solid backups, and no obvious players available that make the team better now or in the future.

What if Lebron gets hurt? Do we have a backup super star? Maybe Ferry should pick up another superstar just in case Lebron goes down. :gap: :gap: :gap:

Dirk Gently
08-19-2009, 03:13 PM
What if Lebron gets hungry? Do we have a backup super star? Maybe Ferry should pick up another superstar just in case Lebron goes down. :gap: :gap: :gap:

My thoughts exactly. But I can't mention the H word next to LeBron. I think a backup superstar would be great though. You never know what might happen.

Rimage
08-19-2009, 04:31 PM
I think we should have the intent of signing Russel Robinson and cutting Jawad if Robinson does well in TC. This also assumes we sign Kurz.

If we have Z, Shaq, AV, JJ, DJ, Powe and Kurz at the PF/C positions, there are only 8 spots left. Moon, Green, Mo, Delonte, Boobie, Parker, and LBJ fill up 7 of those spots. We already have 5 PFs on the roster (AV, JJ, DJ, Powe, Kurz), so I don't see much need for another PF, and AV is as good as we're going to find as a 3rd string center. I'd say we're pretty much set with bigs. Even LBJ can play some PF when we go small, so we really have 6 players who can effectively play PF on the roster.

I understand what you are saying and I understand where you are coming from. It would be nice to have a roster that went three deep at all five positions to make up a 15 man roster, and if all things were equal, I would be on board with that, but that isn't the case. Right now, we have a pretty strong rotation of guards (and Lebron) that can cover the 1 and 2 position. It isn't really a weakness. We have Lebron and now Moon at the 3 which isn't gonna get any better because, well Lebron has got it covered. Center is fine...but our 4 position is a big question mark and that is why options are great. Get a lot of guys with different looks and if one doesn't work we can try something else.

Mdog1
08-19-2009, 08:24 PM
If Mo, Delonte or Boobie gets hurt honestly we are not in that bad of a position with our depth. With LeBron we have the ability to mask any problem that can arrive in that he could play any position on the court, yeah including C if we really needed him to. But what would hurt us is if we lose two starters. LeBron could easily if Mo got hurt slide to SG and start Parker/Moon at SF and Delonte at PG. If Av got Hurt LeBron could easily play starting PF while Moon/Parker played the 3, and if Delonte got hurt then Bron could play SG. LeBron could even fill in some minutes if Shaq got hurt IMO. But if Shaq and Delonte both got hurt then we would be fairly screwed IMO but we would still be a .650ish team.

abraxas
08-19-2009, 09:22 PM
So I looked at the title and read the article below on Cavs Attitude, and was about the close the tab thinking this is a ridiculous idea. Then I started thinking about this. I've always felt that AI was misunderstood. And, I've always felt that AI is what he is. So looking at those two things, I think there's some merit to Ferry considering this...

First, let me premise this with the contract would definitely be a 1-year rental, and since all we have left is the vet minimum right, that's what he'd have to get. If he'd take that, that's a start, and a good sign. Then, basically, we promise him Boobie's minutes. I know we were all hoping for Boobie to have a comeback year, but I think Boobie peaked and although his injuries certainly affected him last year, he's not going to be much more than what we've already seen. If he wasn't so tight with Lebron, he might've already been shipped out. So basically he comes off the bench and can run some point, or play off the ball with Delonte. He gets 20 minutes a night or so.

I don't know how he'd actually fit in an x and o kind of way, but let's say he's wanting to give it one last shot for a ring, and wants to prove that he can be a team player, and maybe make a case for one last 2 or 3 year contract after this year, why not come in and do that for us? Crazy, yes? Worth the risk? Probably not - but after all, we were thinking of bringing in Artest who IMO is much more unstable and would've signed for 3 yrs or longer.



http://mvn.com/cavalierattitude/
August 19, 2009
Why Aren't the Cavs Showing Even the Mildest Interest in Allen Iverson?

Oh, how soon we forget.

Once upon a time, this was a Cleveland Cavaliers team that was dearth of talent. It was The LeBron Show -- and not much else. Some will even argue that, despite recent roster makeovers, it still is that way. But acquiring Mo Williams last summer, who blossomed into an All-Star, and Shaquille O'Neal -- a future Hall of Famer -- this summer has definitely been a major upgrade over a squad that once featured Larry Hughes and Drew Gooden in its starting lineup.

But not too long ago, Cavs fans would jump at any and all trade possibilities involving any player. Like Kevin Garnett. Like Mike Bibby. Like Michael Redd. Like Amar'e Stoudemire. And, back in November and December of 2006, Allen Iverson.

How soon we forget.

Because now, the same Iverson that would have cost so much to acquire via trade could be had more easily than at any point of his decorated career. Reports on Wednesday -- as well as Iverson's own Twitter account -- indicated that A.I. was close to reaching a deal with somebody, believed to be either Miami, New York, or Charlotte. The Clippers and Memphis were also mentioned in the running.

But nope -- no sight of the Cavs.

Yes, Iverson's a one-dimensional scorer and nothing else, but he would easily be the best guard that LeBron James has had to play with in his entire career. While Mo Williams' 17.8 points per game last year were a career high and considered a major breakthrough for the 6'1" point guard, A.I.'s 17.4 points with the Pistons were considered a low-water mark and complete disappointment.

A back injury (and maybe even a reluctance to come off the bench) terminated Iverson's 2008-09 campaign far earlier than expected, but a summer of rejection and seeing his ego torn to shreds may allow A.I. to see just where he stands in today's NBA. The 34-year old, who will be entering his 14th season out of Georgetown, can be had for close to the league minimum for a player with Iverson's experience.

Remember that just 14 months ago, Iverson had just played in all 82 games and averaged 26.4 points per game for a 50-win Denver team. How is this same guy not "good enough" for a Cavaliers team desperate -- desperate -- for a championship?

The caveat here would be to have Iverson agree to come off the bench and have limited minutes. He could start in place for Mo Williams or Delonte West on some nights, especially on back-to-backs or a fourth game in five nights. The matchup problems he would cause with the second unit would be devastating.

Of course, that would also depend on how high up winning a championship is on Iverson's priority list. Notice that the teams that he has been linked to -- Miami, New York, Charlotte, the Clippers, and Memphis -- are all losers with absolutely no hope at all in the future. A.I. may be more concerned with getting minutes and padding his stats on worthless teams than he is playing a key role on a championship one.

That refutes everything linking Iverson and the Cavs. Put playing alongside LeBron and Shaq in a city starved for an overdue championship would be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity -- an opportunity that could add to A.I.'s legacy. Especially if he were the one to push them over the top for that elusive championship.

Maybe Danny Ferry knows all this. Maybe it is not a coincidence that bottom-feeder teams going nowhere are the only ones interested in Iverson, perhaps for a chance to be a hit at the box office.

But if Iverson wants to erase a past that saw him personify everything that had become wrong with the NBA -- me-first attitudes, ball-hogging, putting stats and playing time over team success, and selfishness -- then joining the Cavs to come off the bench in a limited role would be the best thing for him at this point of his career.

If not, then joining an irrelevant team that promises to make little to no noise this season is his call. Provided he's done wiping the egg off his face from what has definitely been a humiliating offseason.

abraxas
08-19-2009, 09:30 PM
i just read somewhere he's about to sign...oh well on the AI daydream

rabman_gold
08-20-2009, 12:03 AM
If Mo, Delonte or Boobie gets hurt honestly we are not in that bad of a position with our depth. With LeBron we have the ability to mask any problem that can arrive in that he could play any position on the court, yeah including C if we really needed him to. But what would hurt us is if we lose two starters. LeBron could easily if Mo got hurt slide to SG and start Parker/Moon at SF and Delonte at PG. If Av got Hurt LeBron could easily play starting PF while Moon/Parker played the 3, and if Delonte got hurt then Bron could play SG. LeBron could even fill in some minutes if Shaq got hurt IMO. But if Shaq and Delonte both got hurt then we would be fairly screwed IMO but we would still be a .650ish team.

:eek: OMG!! We'd only be a 65% team WITHOUT Shaq AND Delonte??!! Y. C. Be F. Serious!!! (fill in the blanks, geniuses :tongue:)

Seriously... what kind of depth do we have exactly?! If the old Cavs couldn't play Shaq and Delonte, they'd be closer to 50%. I mean, c'mon... 65% is still a 53-55 win season, still better than 5 Eastern Playoff Teams.

Man, the '89 and '92 and '76 teams would be murdered if they lost one key piece, let alone 2.

And to stay relevant, do we need another PG/SG combo?? Wasn't that what Anthony Parker is? Why don't we see what he does before trying to judge. It probably is a bigger piece of the puzzle. That's 1 (Mo), 2 (Delonte), 3 (Boobie), 4 (Anthony), 5 (Danny), and another guy (LBJ) who can fill those minutes well. Some better than others, but a lot of insurance that can really help the team.

Remember, now we have 3 guys who can start anytime, anywhere. And another 2 who have managed to start on a halfway decent team.

Just to remind people that we aren't your typical team, here's the damn depth chart:

Key:
Bold = Starter Quality at Minimum
Underline = Decent Quality (below starter, but valuable as a reserve)
Italic = High Ceiling (unproven but potential is screaming in your ear)
Center|Power Forward|Small Forward|Shooting Guard|Point Guard
Shaquille O'Neal|Anderson Varejao|LeBron James|Delonte West|Mo Williams
Zydrunas Ilgauskas|Leon Powe|Jamario Moon|Anthony Parker|Daniel Gibson
Darnell Jackson|J.J. Hickson|Jawad Williams|Danny Green|Russell Robinson

That's 11 possible rotation players. The Lakers have 10 true rotation players. If Darnell and Danny prove to be useful, they can fill in admirably for small stretches. That's 13 guys who can actually prove to do something on the court. We had 13 such players last year (LBJ, Mo, Z, West, Andy, Joe, Ben, Wally, Sasha, Gib, J.J., DJ3, Kinsey), and compare to what we upgraded this year. The previous years were less and less. This team isn't going to screw around this year either, I bet 66 is possible yet again.

Don't fret about what we need until you see this team blow your socks off.

JayP146
08-20-2009, 12:18 AM
abraxas,

Iverson
destroys
team
chemistry.

He is a "me" type of player who expects the offense to be run through him and doesn't play a lick of defense. He can score, yes, but that's all he does, and doesn't fit the mold of what the Cavaliers need.

LyXo
08-20-2009, 01:06 AM
I don't see why we need another combo PG. We haven't had any good success with them in the past until Mo and Delonte came along. Mo stuck because he's borderline elite shooter, can create his own shot, and has a nice floater in the lane. Delonte plays gritty defense, has a good spot up shot, and really knows how to play next to LeBron in every play he's involved in.

Other than that... or past combo guards haven't been too exciting. Why bring in another mediocre combo that will just underperform because he either can't shoot, can't dribble, or will lose his shot because of the lack of playing time?

We haven't had a strong playmaking PG since LeBron got here. No PG has had high assist numbers. Of course this is due to LeBron dominating the ball and handling most of the playmaking, but we haven't changed the course. This comparison now may be outlandish, but it's similar to dunking - have we never brought in dunkers because LeBron is one of the best in the game and we have enough of it? Have we not brought in playmaking PGs because of the same fact?

OK, it is sharing possessions with more playmakers, and dunking is just one way of scoring... but having a player that can set up other players, one outside of LeBron, that can actually set LeBron up, as well as divvy up possessions between him and Shaq.. something that we really should be looking into... rather than another half-ass slasher with a questionable shot. (see: Larry Hughes, Daniel Gibson (last season), Shannon Brown, David Wesley, Lucious Harris, Dajuan Wagner) Exceptions: Devin Brown (not a significant role), Ronald Murray (was nice while it lasted), Jeff McInnis (ditto).

On the Brevin Knight bandwagon here...

abraxas
08-20-2009, 01:50 AM
abraxas,

Iverson
destroys
team
chemistry.

He is a "me" type of player who expects the offense to be run through him and doesn't play a lick of defense. He can score, yes, but that's all he does, and doesn't fit the mold of what the Cavaliers need.


you're totally right - i was caught up in a momentary daydream. but so was i when we had the possibility of adding artest. i think there's just some guys whose talent is so enticing they keep burning teams and fans. AI is definitely in the starting 5 on this all-burnt team.

Cavatt
08-20-2009, 04:44 AM
I am not sure if AI has fallen far enough yet. I see redemption in his future, but not yet. It actually seems like it would be a move Boston would make. They took a real flyer on Marbury. Why not AI. That would really solidify their bench.

CleveRocks
08-20-2009, 05:39 AM
I mean we're talking about PRACTICE!

AI is not the influence in the locker room we need. Put him in NY or NJ where he will certainly draw butts to seats, or even the Clips. But AI is not an asset we want or need.

Sock
08-20-2009, 06:15 AM
We dont need to till we really need it. Why? With the addition of Moon / Parker, but more on Moon, the backup SF job is taken. That is probably the best thing Ferry could do, even more important than getting Shaq. Why? Cause we have a man who could play on all 5 positions without any trouble any time. So we got an injured pg? Put that man there and poof, problem solved. What if JJ and Powe is still injured? Put the man there. We have a guaranteed Hall of Famer on our team so why not use him wisely instead of getting a sub-par player for "just in case" situation

twizbuck
08-20-2009, 06:42 AM
No, we need a pure PG.

Green Lantern
08-20-2009, 08:13 AM
Who would you get who would do a better job there than any combo of players the Cavs already have? How would you get him? Sure, if Jason Kidd would have signed for the vet minimum, the Cavs would probably be better off than they are now. But that didn't happen. Who is out there that is available (through FA or a trade), how would you get him, and what (if anything) would you have to give up to get him?



Let Ferry scout for a PG...he's aware of whats out there..doesn't really matter to me as long as there's a guy who is actually a pure PG to come in and run the unit....I've seen enough over the years to know there's a need for one..

Ziggie123
08-20-2009, 08:16 AM
I guess I am another who is a little surprised that the Cavs to my knowledge did not show some interest in AI. (I'm guessing Ferry probably made at least a phone call). We always seem to have trouble scoring with the second unit when James and Mo are not on the floor. What if one or both were hurt at the same time? AI would solve that. Depending on the cost, I would not mind seeing AI on the bench. I understand the chemistry issue but I think that can be overcome with James.

Douglar
08-20-2009, 08:27 AM
AI is one of the least focused defenders in the NBA and he's never shown himself to be successful as anything other than the primary focus of an offense. He's not a good fit for the Cavs.

And people can talk until they are blue in the face about how the cavs need to get a pure PG, but pure PG's only exist until you start talking about actual players. Once you start talking about players instead of theory, the idea of an available pass-first PG that has a complete enough game to actualy crack the Cavs rotation, the whole idea of a pure PG evaporates pretty quickly.

On paper the Cavs have a pretty good three guard rotation with Mo, West, and Parker, all of who are respectable ball handlers. Gibson's a decent 4th young guard who can fill in for injures or run the team well enough to get by in garbage minutes. The cavs have another young prospect in Danny Green. Unless the Cavs pick up a defensive specialist who's effective against super quick guards and a good training partner for the rotation players, there are no other realistic options with the money that the Cavs have left.

hartwill
08-20-2009, 10:03 AM
AI is one of the least focused defenders in the NBA and he's never shown himself to be successful as anything other than the primary focus of an offense. He's not a good fit for the Cavs.

And people can talk until they are blue in the face about how the cavs need to get a pure PG, but pure PG's only exist until you start talking about actual players. Once you start talking about players instead of theory, the idea of an available pass-first PG that has a complete enough game to actualy crack the Cavs rotation, the whole idea of a pure PG evaporates pretty quickly.

On paper the Cavs have a pretty good three guard rotation with Mo, West, and Parker, all of who are respectable ball handlers. Gibson's a decent 4th young guard who can fill in for injures or run the team well enough to get by in garbage minutes. The cavs have another young prospect in Danny Green. Unless the Cavs pick up a defensive specialist who's effective against super quick guards and a good training partner for the rotation players, there are no other realistic options with the money that the Cavs have left.


Agree. The point guard options available in free agency are limited. None of them amount to more than mere insurance policies if someone got injured. It is hard to see anyone out there who would be a rotation-type player. Jacque Vaughn, Carlos Arroyo, Jason Hart, Mike Wilks, Troy Hudson, etc., are really just end of the bench players at best. I don't see anyone out there who can help us with the possible exeception of Jamaal Tinsley who I don't want. I'll trust Larry Bird on that one.

Green Lantern
08-20-2009, 11:34 AM
I don't recall anyone who advocates the Cavs picking up a PG is suggesting the guy is going to be in the rotation...but it's for emergency purposes...and I certainly won't change skin tones in suggesting it..and for anyone suggesting Gibson can handle it in a pinch, it appears those people never watched him try to do it..because he actually sucks doing it.
Go back and watch the playoffs when he was in impersonating a playmaker..

Douglar
08-20-2009, 01:01 PM
I've seen enough over the years to know there's a need for one..


I don't recall anyone who advocates the Cavs picking up a PG is suggesting the guy is going to be in the rotation...

So you are saying that the Cavs have needed a pure PG who isn't in the rotation? I just don't get that at all.

ice cream man
08-20-2009, 01:03 PM
So you are saying that the Cavs have needed a pure PG who isn't in the rotation? I just don't get that at all.

I think he's saying that we still don't have, and could use, a true PG, but any PG we sign now will not be in the rotation...?

Green Lantern
08-20-2009, 04:44 PM
So you are saying that the Cavs have needed a pure PG who isn't in the rotation? I just don't get that at all.


Yeah right...U get it..you've been on other boards just like I have especially when the debates came up about needing a PG...they have two combo guards now plus Lebron..before that there was a need for a PG ..the ones playing the point weren't true PG's..now they have Mo playing the point with Gibson being his backup.

Delonte can off the bench and run that spot but in a emergency that isn't ideal..
At some point during the season someone will get hurt just like last year when West went down and Mo got hurt in the playoffs....having a guy there who doesn't need to be in the rotation but can be used in a pinch makes the depth that much better.

it's not complicated at all, and I think you really get it..I know sometimes U try to be a little difficult..if Gibson could do it I wouldn't make any remarks but he clearly showed he has a lot of difficulty trying to play that spot..his handle is weak and he's turnover prone..

But hey I've seen how this debates go about certain positions...I certainly remember the one that was about the Cavs not needing a PF who could score..we see how that sent..
I think there's a need a guard to be there for emergency use..

Douglar
08-20-2009, 04:58 PM
Yeah right...U get it..you've been on other boards just like I have especially when the debates came up about needing a PG...they have two combo guards now plus Lebron..before that there was a need for a PG ..the ones playing the point weren't true PG's..now they have Mo playing the point with Gibson being his backup.

Then I have to disagree with you about the Cavs needing a "pure pg".

The first reason is because the whole "pure pg" notion ends up being theoretical non-entity and when people are pushed on the subject. They really only come down with a hand full players that they consider to be a "pure pg's" who would realistically make the Cavs a better team and none of them available.

Second is that the Cavs don't use small guards as pure PGs' because they have Lebron. Look at Mo & Delotne's assist %'s before and after coming to the Cavs. They declined by a 3rd do to the nature of the Cavs offense. The Cavs offense was by the way, one of the most potent in the NBA last season. The point where adding more passing stops being worth the $$$ is way lower than the point where adding more defense, shooting, rebounding and ball handing stops being worth the $$$.

rabman_gold
08-21-2009, 12:02 AM
If you're a pure point guard, your strong points would be:



Passing
Ball-handling
Facilitating
Decision-making

The way I see it, the ball-handling is most important right now when trying to get more point guards, but it never hurts to make sure they have a decent offensive game (shooting, driving, etc.).

Right? Well, LeBron creates most of the opportunities due to his effectiveness at drawing attention from other defenders not guarding him. They only need a split second to not pay attention to LeBron for him to burn them using their open man. Just look at the Detroit game with Joe's threes as the point of interest. Either way, his well-roundedness makes him effective at most of the plays made during the game.

Because he does his damage with the ball in his hands, he takes the opportunities from his teammates. That might be because it's hard to trust them when they fumble it to ball pressure. Or it might be because they have to trust him completely as he's the key to the game. That's where Delonte and Mo's usability goes down.

Jason Kidd would've been perfect, because he can make shots, can effectively drive, and force so much attention that he makes open shots easy. But it's hard to find guys of his caliber to put on the team. Eric Snow would've worked, if he might've been a lot younger, but even his lack of shooting makes it hard to work in this offense. So... Russell Robinson could prove to be useful, but needs to prove he can deal with ball pressure and score on his own.

MYoung23
08-21-2009, 12:16 AM
If you are talking about adding another PG due to the possibility of an injury then that means that PG must have a skill set similar to the player he is replacing.

Two skills that guards need to have that are set in stone as long as James is a Cleveland Cavaliers are the ability to make shots with range and the ability to play off the ball. If you cant do those two things as a guard you need not apply in Cleveland.

The people who keep clamoring for a ball dominating PG that cant shoot and/or play off the ball dont make sense. We know that playmaking ability will always take a backseat to those other skills because we have seen the failures of players who lack them i.e Eric Snow and Larry Hughes.

The Cavaliers are always going to be built around James and his strengths therefore you are always going to need guards with combo skills. Im sure the Cavaliers would like a 27 year old Chauncey Billups but those guys are few and far between.

The way the Cavaliers play, in reality, all their perimeter players need to be versatile. They have a European influenced offense. Last year, they really didn't have enough guys to continue their style if they got an injury to either James, West or Williams. The Cavaliers will tell you they've added another player like that in Anthony Parker.