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Triplethreat
05-03-2010, 10:33 PM
My oh my.. One game in a 7 game series and people just start to completely freak out! Understand it is not that bad! We obviously played an extremely lazy game today! We have coaches, they will make adjustments, and we will get a nice rest for game 3. We have won in the Garden once this year and we almost won twice! LeBron will get his treatment for the elbow and we will be completelyyyyy fine. Like I already said, and I can't reiterate this enough. IT'S A 7 GAME SERIESSSSS! We have 5 more left.. So just please chill out and understand that we still have time to win this series.. Jeez..

gourimoko
05-03-2010, 10:34 PM
I feel you bro.. But I don't think anyone's really worried about Boston. You think this team beats Orlando playing like this?

Cleveland's the best team in the league. When they want to be.

SoundBreaker
05-03-2010, 10:35 PM
This team must restore my faith in them winning a title this season. You don't play like this AT home vs. an old Boston team.


One thing to get smoked on the road, but at home it is UNACCEPTABLE.


So, like I said they must show me they are a title team. Because right now, I don't know if they are.

Triplethreat
05-03-2010, 10:36 PM
I feel you bro.. But I don't think anyone's really worried about Boston. You think this team beats Orlando playing like this?

Cleveland's the best team in the league. When they want to be.

Last season, Orlando comes into Boston and wins game 1 in the Garden.. Boston won a game in Orlando and took the series to a game 7. It's not hard, we can do it, we just have to get rested up and come ready to play. Make our adjustments and we're fine. Boston doesn't win a game 7 in Cleveland..

MDLT
05-03-2010, 10:36 PM
If LeBron was healthy this wouldn't be a much of a concern (and this game wouldn't have turned out like this). But he really is, no matter what some on this board are saying. And if he's not healthy, they can't win this series.

Chardon
05-03-2010, 10:37 PM
We didnt win 61 games on accident. We are the best team in the league with the best talent. Look at last year, we swept the first 2 playoff series, and looks where that got us. Boston cant keep up, they are too old. I predicted us to win this series 3-2. ( That means we will lose once more, and people will freak out again)

jpow6636
05-03-2010, 10:38 PM
Completely agree, Unacceptable!!

lukecfg
05-03-2010, 10:39 PM
It's just amazing the consistent lack of attention to detail and focus this team displays. After all the "I've never seen LeBron so focused" quotes, I thought it would be different in the playoffs. So far we've only played hard in spurts.

We better figure this out soon, because if it doesn't catch up with us against Boston, Orlando is taking us out in the next round.

Thunder
05-03-2010, 10:41 PM
Why can't we play defense like this all game?

Taiter
05-03-2010, 10:42 PM
My oh my.. One game in a 7 game series and people just start to completely freak out! Understand it is not that bad! We obviously played an extremely lazy game today! We have coaches, they will make adjustments, and we will get a nice rest for game 3. We have won in the Garden once this year and we almost won twice! LeBron will get his treatment for the elbow and we will be completelyyyyy fine. Like I already said, and I can't reiterate this enough. IT'S A 7 GAME SERIESSSSS! We have 5 more left.. So just please chill out and understand that we still have time to win this series.. Jeez..

If that's all it is, then fine, but I don't think that's all it is... I think it's that injury...

Triplethreat
05-03-2010, 10:43 PM
You guys act like Boston is such a Push over.. Remember they took Orlando to 7 last year, who went on to the Finals, and won the Finals the year before. :rolleyes:

Bob Loblaw
05-03-2010, 10:44 PM
I still think we should beat Boston, but it just bothers me seeing how intense we are now as opposed to the first 3 quarters. Why does it take being down 20+ for the switch to flip on? It's the freaking playoffs.

lukecfg
05-03-2010, 10:45 PM
You guys act like Boston is such a Push over.. Remember they took Orlando to 7 last year, who went on to the Finals, and won the Finals the year before. :rolleyes:

The Cavs played like Boston is such a pushover for the first three quarters tonight.

MDLT
05-03-2010, 10:45 PM
We didnt win 61 games on accident. We are the best team in the league with the best talent. Look at last year, we swept the first 2 playoff series, and looks where that got us. Boston cant keep up, they are too old. I predicted us to win this series 3-2. ( That means we will lose once more, and people will freak out again)

Have to disagree, to a degree. It appears there is a possibility that either James is hurt, or this team doesn't have the ability to get it done when it counts.

jpow6636
05-03-2010, 10:45 PM
You guys act like Boston is such a Push over.. Remember they took Orlando to 7 last year, who went on to the Finals, and won the Finals the year before. :rolleyes:

Thank you seriously! Not sure if anyone has noticed but our record in boston isn't so hot! This is a much bigger deal than this original post stated, there are lot's of problems with this team, matchups, defense, and a injury(even though champions play through pain)

Prekazi
05-03-2010, 10:46 PM
Chill out, why? Is LeBron James going to heal miraculously?

ice cream man
05-03-2010, 10:46 PM
This is the playoffs. We're not overreacting.

KG and Pierce have not played their best at all.

Amherstcavsfan
05-03-2010, 10:47 PM
It's not losing. It is not even close.

It is HOW they are losing. They are giving no effort, at home, in the middle of the 2nd round of the playoffs.

That is unacceptable, and if you accept that, then you accept mediocrity.

CardiacCavs
05-03-2010, 10:48 PM
This is gonna be a long break til game 3...

This one hurts...bad.

El_diablo_03
05-03-2010, 10:48 PM
I don't think some fans are mad because of this game.

We are mad because the team is not giving effort.This is the playoffs and I have yet to see a playoff like game from this team for a full 48 minutes, especially on the defensive end.That's really alarming.

samtheman67
05-03-2010, 10:49 PM
Honestly I don't think we can win a chip our roleplayers just dont have the right mentality.. Mo is crumbling, shaq is visibly old, antawn is doing the best he can.. Its still Lebron and a bunch of scrubs sadly when it comes to money time

Triplethreat
05-03-2010, 10:50 PM
Boston was also shooting out of their minddsssssss, completely rediculous.. Rasheed doesn't shoot like that, Game 3 is a different story.

MDLT
05-03-2010, 10:50 PM
It's not losing. It is not even close.

It is HOW they are losing. They are giving no effort, at home, in the middle of the 2nd round of the playoffs.

That is unacceptable, and if you accept that, then you accept mediocrity.

Nailed it. This team is not ready for the playoffs, and that is so very sad. Even if James is hurt (which I truly think he is), they showed SO much more effort in the final 5 minutes that's its evident they brought no intensity whatsoever.

Whatever you say about the Celtics, at least they show professionalism in bringing it every night. Just look at that empty arena. Shaking my head.

Ignatius
05-03-2010, 10:52 PM
40% 19% 68.4%

Some of these comments in here are freakin' ridiculous.

Triplethreat
05-03-2010, 10:53 PM
Shaq is also still getting back into game shape.. It took him a while at the beginning of the season and it'll take some time here too.

GoGetta
05-03-2010, 10:53 PM
I cant remember the last time a legit contender got blown out by 20+ on there own floor.

iEchoic
05-03-2010, 10:54 PM
We have coaches, they will make adjustments

You must be confused.

Marcus
05-03-2010, 10:54 PM
One thing's for sure, they damned well BETTER win Game 3.

Powerslave
05-03-2010, 10:54 PM
You know it's a cold day in hell when Sheed is outhustling your players

MDLT
05-03-2010, 10:54 PM
40% 19% 68.4%

So you're saying they'll play better? Yeah, I guess they will because they can't possibly play worse. But Mar, c'mon - this team has some issues.

"MVP"
05-03-2010, 10:55 PM
We should worry because if the Cavs keep playing like this, they will not make it past this round even. What a terrible performance. We need some guys other than LeBron to show up in Boston.

Marcus
05-03-2010, 10:55 PM
Boston was also shooting out of their minddsssssss, completely rediculous.. Rasheed doesn't shoot like that, Game 3 is a different story.


Teams tend to shoot out of their minds when you don't body up on them and play defense.

LeShaq
05-03-2010, 10:55 PM
As ugly as this game was, and as ugly as parts of Game 1 were, I'm just not concerned.

That may not be the logical reaction, but I'm just not so bent out of shape by tonight's debacle.

The only thing that matters in my mind is LeBron's health. So long as that is ok or at least manageable, I still feel good about the Cavs in this series. They just need to turn the switch up about 3 levels.

Biw
05-03-2010, 10:56 PM
Anyone else literally feel sick after this game? I'm actually really nauseated right now.

I don't care if this is a 7 game series. You don't lose like this at home. We were down almost 30 points at one point. There's a reason to be concerned.

winner0274
05-03-2010, 10:56 PM
How can you give no effort in the fucking playoffs? Especially vs Boston at home... Fucking pathetic.

thecrowning
05-03-2010, 10:56 PM
Sad thing is, non of the things the Cavs displayed tonight is anything "uncharcteristic" of this team. When was the last time anyone sees these Cavs play hard for 48? You are only as good as your habits are. This season, the Cavs have always been a high production - high error team. They turn it on and off. This is what it gets you. The sad thing is the coaching staff has absolutely no control on such behavior all season, and everyone thinks the playoffs is gonna be a magical switch....well.

The Big Jester
05-03-2010, 10:56 PM
EDIT: COUNT THIS AS A WARNING. - MOD TEAM

Game 3 is now a must win or the series is OVER, book it.

Backstage
05-03-2010, 10:56 PM
I cant remember the last time a legit contender got blown out by 20+ on there own floor.

Can't remember the last time Cavs won a title.

But there can be two first times for everything this year.

Arapahoe
05-03-2010, 10:56 PM
Fans (and the media) need to start giving Boston some respect. I'm sick of hearing "they are too old" crap. I know we are better than them but we aren't playing like it. They are feeding off the fact that no one is giving them a chance in this series.

With that said.... Mo, you need to step the fuck up. I'm sick of you disappearing in big games.

Brandname
05-03-2010, 10:56 PM
The best part about tonight?

Doc Rivers will be more inclined to play Rasheed the rest of the series. :chuckles:

abuC
05-03-2010, 10:57 PM
Stop making excuses, and stop telling people to chill out, the team played with zero intensity and got blown out on their homecourt in the playoffs. This is supposed to be a hated rival, yet for the 2nd game in a row the Cavs come out and lay a dud and play like the Celts are just supposed to roll over.

futuristxen
05-03-2010, 10:58 PM
I don't agree with chilling out. This is fine if it were a regular season game. But we're in the second round of the playoffs and we're not playing at all like a championship contender. If any there was a time to panic, it's now. We're once again revealing ourselves to be a team of playoff chokers.

Ignatius
05-03-2010, 10:59 PM
you may be optimistic but you are also a moron sorry.

Game 3 is now a must win or the series is OVER, book it.

Dude. Not at all. A split at The Garden would be fine.

Calm your emotions. And stop with the name calling, because that's your opinion.....which I happen to find fairly moronic myself.

InBoobieWeTrust
05-03-2010, 10:59 PM
Chill out guys, we only got completely embarrassed on our home floor and will have to spend the next 4 days hiding from ESPN, TNT, talk radio, NBA TV, etc because if we don't property will be broken, people will be punched, jail time will be served.


Thanks LeBron. At least you have your MVP trophy now. Maybe you should get it waxed. You'll have to take it somewhere else though because the Celtics used all of their wax to tear your ass apart tonight.

bushwik
05-03-2010, 10:59 PM
Mo Williams might be the worst backcourt defender in the NBA. I'm dead serious.

Antawn Jamison is living up to his title of being 'soft' on both ends.

Shaq is a huge liability on offense and looks every bit of 38 years old right now.

Mike Brown fails to rally this team and make the right adjustments in critical situations

The sky isnt falling just yet but if LeBron's play tonight was really a reflection of the pain he;s in, and this injury is serious, mark my words, we arent winning this series. No way no how.

The Voice
05-03-2010, 11:00 PM
I won't chill out till JJ starts.

TAS
05-03-2010, 11:01 PM
I don't understand why LeBron doesn't play Pierce close. Especially when Ray Allen is coming off screens. They are just letting the Celtics run their plays and not try to disrupt it.

Only thing positive from this game was the post defense and the timing on the doubles were on point for most of the night.

2 For The Brew
05-03-2010, 11:01 PM
The Cavaliers beat the Bulls in Chicago by 26 points in the 1992 ECF and that team had Jordan.

We promptly lost Game 3 at home and Games 5 and 6.

If we're down 3-1 coming home then I'll panic. Tonight we had a cold night from the outside and they lit it up.

Powerslave
05-03-2010, 11:01 PM
I want to humble LeBron with a baseball bat.

Triplethreat
05-03-2010, 11:01 PM
Last Season: Denver wins game 2 in LA, Lakers bounce back to win series 4-2

iEchoic
05-03-2010, 11:02 PM
Edit: misread first quote or you edited it or something


Last Season: Denver wins game 2 in LA, Lakers bounce back to win series 4-2

Was that by ~20 points?

Taiter
05-03-2010, 11:02 PM
By now this team is what it is... a team that is completely tied emotionally to its leader. Asking these guys to suddenly show some initiative and lead the team is expecting something that isn't going to happen. That's not who this team is. If Lebron can't bring it, the team is toast. That formula generally works very well, but not if the leader is really hurting and just can't get it done.

There wasn't any intensity, but I think the reason for that is Lebron's injury, not because this team thought it was playing a meaningless midseason game against Charlotte.

Amherstcavsfan
05-03-2010, 11:02 PM
Last Season: Denver wins game 2 in LA, Lakers bounce back to win series 4-2

With all due respect, we are not the Lakers, and the Celtics are definitely not the Nuggets.

Ignatius
05-03-2010, 11:03 PM
The Cavaliers beat the Bulls in Chicago by 26 points in the 1992 ECF and that team had Jordan.

We promptly lost Game 3 at home and Games 5 and 6.

If we're down 3-1 coming home then I'll panic. Tonight we had a cold night from the outside and they lit it up.

I'm going to keep quoting this to fade out the other panic nonsense.

Again 40% FG, 19% 3, 68.4% FT does not help.

TJ Detweiler
05-03-2010, 11:03 PM
Fuck Cleveland i'm moving to Italy.

The apocolypse is near. I don't feel like spending 8000$ on video games like Sheed in this dump of a city.

SuperSurge
05-03-2010, 11:04 PM
Calm your emotions...

LOL Enhance your calm, John Spartan...
http://www.replikultes.net/medias/uploads/films/demolition_man/demolition_man_flingue.jpg

Love ya Mar... no homo... :thumbup:

NorthCoastBias
05-03-2010, 11:04 PM
Thank God for the optimists. You guys keep me sane after these losses.

thecrowning
05-03-2010, 11:05 PM
By now this team is what it is... a team that is completely tied emotionally to its leader. Asking these guys to suddenly show some initiative and lead the team is expecting something that isn't going to happen. That's not who this team is. If Lebron can't bring it, the team is toast.

That's also another reason why I never think Mike Brown is anything close to being a contender's coach, let alone a championship coach. Lebron has to be everything for this team.

Ignatius
05-03-2010, 11:05 PM
Was that by ~20 points?

Does it really matter? I think not. Get over it.

CAVS ARE 10-0 WHEN THEY WIN GAME 1 OF A 2ND ROUND PLAYOFF SERIES.

^^Does that matter? Answer my question!!!!! ;)

Chris
05-03-2010, 11:05 PM
Sounds like what I heard after Game 1 of the 2009 ECF.

Shakezoula
05-03-2010, 11:05 PM
We said this last year. I'm not gonna chill until this team gives me a reason to.

iEchoic
05-03-2010, 11:06 PM
Does it really matter? I think not. Get over it.

Get over what? I'm not even complaining, I was legitimately interested in seeing how often this has ever happened before.

Ignatius
05-03-2010, 11:06 PM
By now this team is what it is... a team that is completely tied emotionally to its leader. Asking these guys to suddenly show some initiative and lead the team is expecting something that isn't going to happen. That's not who this team is. If Lebron can't bring it, the team is toast.

There wasn't any intensity, but I think the reason for that is Lebron's injury, not because this team thought it was playing a meaningless midseason game against Charlotte.

I wasn't watching the same game as you.

Amherstcavsfan
05-03-2010, 11:06 PM
Does it really matter? I think not. Get over it.

CAVS ARE 10-0 WHEN THEY WIN GAME 1 OF A 2ND ROUND PLAYOFF SERIES.

^^Does that matter? Answer my question!!!!! ;)

No...not really.

Typhoon
05-03-2010, 11:06 PM
http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l1cbd1ZZel1qzv45so1_500.jpg

abuC
05-03-2010, 11:07 PM
Does it really matter? I think not. Get over it.

CAVS ARE 10-0 WHEN THEY WIN GAME 1 OF A 2ND ROUND PLAYOFF SERIES.

^^Does that matter? Answer my question!!!!! ;)



The fact they are 10-0 just means they are bound to lose one eventually.

Andrew
05-03-2010, 11:07 PM
It's not that we loss, I could deal with a hard fought game not going our way, its the way they lost.

They failed to capitalize on the Celtics turnovers.

They failed to try and defend Rasheed Wallace.

They failed to get any mojo going until the 4th.

They failed to realize LBJ was not himself and just stood around.

I can deal with a loss, I can't deal with a failure.

InBoobieWeTrust
05-03-2010, 11:07 PM
I have chewed 6 gatorade caps into about 80 small little pieces in the last 30 minutes. My teeth are immensely sore. I just started on another one.

It's the only thing stopping me from destruction and chaos.

LyXo
05-03-2010, 11:08 PM
I hope the Cavs understand that this is a 7 game series as well, because they played like the series was won after game 1.

Bob Loblaw
05-03-2010, 11:09 PM
The Cavaliers beat the Bulls in Chicago by 26 points in the 1992 ECF and that team had Jordan.

We promptly lost Game 3 at home and Games 5 and 6.

If we're down 3-1 coming home then I'll panic. Tonight we had a cold night from the outside and they lit it up.

Good call. Jordan was 7-22 with 6 turnovers in that game. The next game he had 36 points and 9 assists and the Bulls took back home court.

Triplethreat
05-03-2010, 11:09 PM
It's not that we loss, I could deal with a hard fought game not going our way, its the way they lost.

They failed to capitalize on the Celtics turnovers.

They failed to try and defend Rasheed Wallace.
They failed to get any mojo going until the 4th.

They failed to realize LBJ was not himself and just stood around.

I can deal with a loss, I can't deal with a failure.

After his playoffs so far why would you?

thecrowning
05-03-2010, 11:09 PM
There's really nothing to say at this point about these Cavs. In fact, its the same all season. "Do you want it? If you do, go GET it muthafuckers!"

Ignatius
05-03-2010, 11:09 PM
So you're saying they'll play better? Yeah, I guess they will because they can't possibly play worse. But Mar, c'mon - this team has some issues.

The issues:


We shot like shit tonight.

FT's

Turnovers

Shaq getting into a rhythm offensively.


Series 1-1

We're 10-0 when winning game 1 of a 2nd round playoff series.

LeBron had a subpar playoff game (is the elbow a real issue?).

It's now a series. And it's far from over.

/Thread

Wine and Gold
05-03-2010, 11:10 PM
Nobody connected with the franchise should be chilling out, if the fans can, fine. But, like I said in the Chicago series ...intensity and desire to play the game hard come playoff time should NEVER be an issue.

Given that ..we've got issues with key players being hurt, and other key players not playing up to their capabilities. Andy and Lebron are injury issues. Nobody truly knows how much Lebron is hurting. Mike Brown hasn't seen anything to make him feel he's hurt, but just about everyone else with the team sees a guy playing tentative. Andy's been playing hurt for awhile, and his back tightened up bad tonight.

When we go to Boston, we can't be wasting large chunks of the game not going after Boston the way they are vulnerable. You have to attack them with speed and athleticism, and when you go directly the opposite direction with personnel you play into their hands.

Very disheartening that we played so poorly tonight. Maybe one of the worst games of the season, actually.

My hope is that it is a wakeup call to players and coaches.

Seeing Mo just lazily run behind picks, and not put forth playoff energy defensively needs to be called out. Not acceptable. But so much was unacceptable this game that it would take the rest of the night to mention everything.

CHIMOCHIS
05-03-2010, 11:10 PM
Good call. Jordan was 7-22 with 6 turnovers in that game. The next game he had 36 points and 9 assists and the Bulls took back home court.

What?

Jordan, the G.O.A.T.? had bad games, wtf is this




When we go to Boston, we can't be wasting large chunks of the game not going after Boston the way they are vulnerable. You have to attack them with speed and athleticism, and when you go directly the opposite direction with personnel you play into their hands.

Very disheartening that we played so poorly tonight. Maybe one of the worst games of the season, actually.

My hope is that it is a wakeup call to players and coaches.

Seeing Mo just lazily run behind picks, and not put forth playoff energy defensively needs to be called out. Not acceptable. But so much was unacceptable this game that it would take the rest of the night to mention everything.

we should try doing that for about 40 minutes every game

Andrew
05-03-2010, 11:10 PM
After his playoffs so far why would you?

When he starts hitting shots, you do.

SuperSurge
05-03-2010, 11:10 PM
Ok, damage control...

We NEED to win one out of two in Boston... Not like it can't be done... But there needs to be a "check-up form the neck-up", as one of my friends overuses all the time...

Taiter
05-03-2010, 11:11 PM
On another topic... maybe it's time for the Cavs to stop doing what is getting them behind early, namely dumping the ball into Shaq. I do not understand the insistence on trying to establish Shaq against the Celtics. Run them off the floor.

MDLT
05-03-2010, 11:11 PM
Just hard to feel good right now, even if you want to try. They arguably needed some great performances to win Game 1, and were absolutely destroyed in Game 2. And really, they're gameplan is much better than ours.

And on top of that LeBron is injured. On top of THAT, we don't look mentally prepared. If you are feeling ok, you're an extreme optimist and God bless you for that. But this is extremely concerning, to say the very least.

Karma
05-03-2010, 11:12 PM
Obviously a different strategy is needed on Rondo. Changing the starting lineup probably isn't the option but changing the rotation may well be. Having Jamison, Shaq and Mo out their for too long will hurt us if they aren't clicking offensively. With Mo struggling to keep anyone in front of him we needs bigs who either show hard (Ilgauskas) or recover well (Varejao). Is Hickson the happy medium between the Ilgasukas / Varejao defensive combo to the offensive minded Shaq / Jamison?

I just dn't like the starting crew out there for signifiocant periods if they aren't dominating the opposition offensively. Defensively we make no statement with that unit.

SuperSurge
05-03-2010, 11:12 PM
I have chewed 6 gatorade caps into about 80 small little pieces in the last 30 minutes. My teeth are immensely sore. I just started on another one.

It's the only thing stopping me from destruction and chaos.

Fingernails for me... Worked over my left pinky pretty good... kinda hurts...

NarlCavs
05-03-2010, 11:12 PM
No need to panic yet and the sky isn't about to fall. I'm more disappointed than pissed about this loss.
Losing a playoff game at home isn't the end of the world. It's more how the Cavs lost that is a little frustrating. For most of the night we saw most players giving a half ass effort and there was way too much sloppy play and execution.

Hopefully this is a much needed wake up call. It's the 2nd round of the playoffs you can't coast for much of the game then expect to turn it on and pull out the win anymore.
This game might be something the Cavs needed. I think we see a much more focused and intense team from now on.

There are times in series when if a player isn't getting it done and playing poorly in a game it makes sense to go with a bench player instead. This is especially true when you have a roster with as much depth as the Cavs. Mo Williams wasn't getting it done at either end tonight.

Ignatius
05-03-2010, 11:12 PM
The fact they are 10-0 just means they are bound to lose one eventually.

LOL

Triplethreat
05-03-2010, 11:12 PM
Last season also, Lakers lose Game 1 to Houston, end up winning in 7 and the Finals. It happens to all great teams, if we are truely worthy of a Championship we have to win on the road.. simple as that, and we were 2nd in the regular season on the road so we obviously have it in us.

Tish Tiggla
05-03-2010, 11:12 PM
I just hope Brown starts acting like a coach and seeing mismatches and playing players that need to play ""JJ"" and sit players when its not there night "Shaq" . I mean how many times can u watch garnet shoot over top Jameson with out making a switch he was doing it all of game 1 too... i just dont get it. THis team will never win a ring with coaching like this!

NarlCavs
05-03-2010, 11:13 PM
No need to panic yet and the sky isn't about to fall. I'm more disappointed than pissed about this loss.
Losing a playoff game at home isn't the end of the world. It's more how the Cavs lost that is a little frustrating. For most of the night we saw most players giving a half ass effort and there was way too much sloppy play and execution.

Hopefully this is a much needed wake up call. It's the 2nd round of the playoffs you can't coast for much of the game then expect to turn it on and pull out the win anymore.
This game might be something the Cavs needed. I think we see a much more focused and intense team from now on.

There are times in series when if a player isn't getting it done and playing poorly in a game it makes sense to go with a bench player instead. This is especially true when you have a roster with as much depth as the Cavs. Mo Williams wasn't getting it done at either end tonight.

MDLT
05-03-2010, 11:13 PM
Just hard to feel good right now, even if you want to try. They arguably needed some great performances to win Game 1, and were absolutely destroyed in Game 2. And really, they're gameplan is much better than ours.

And on top of that LeBron is injured. On top of THAT, we don't look mentally prepared. If you are feeling ok, you're an extreme optimist and God bless you for that. But this is extremely concerning, to say the very least.

InBoobieWeTrust
05-03-2010, 11:14 PM
Nobody connected with the franchise should be chilling out, if the fans can, fine. But, like I said in the Chicago series ...intensity and desire to play the game hard come playoff time should NEVER be an issue.

Given that ..we've got issues with key players being hurt, and other key players not playing up to their capabilities. Andy and Lebron are injury issues. Nobody truly knows how much Lebron is hurting. Mike Brown hasn't seen anything to make him feel he's hurt, but just about everyone else with the team sees a guy playing tentative. Andy's been playing hurt for awhile, and his back tightened up bad tonight.

When we go to Boston, we can't be wasting large chunks of the game not going after Boston the way they are vulnerable. You have to attack them with speed and athleticism, and when you go directly the opposite direction with personnel you play into their hands.

Very disheartening that we played so poorly tonight. Maybe one of the worst games of the season, actually.

My hope is that it is a wakeup call to players and coaches.

Seeing Mo just lazily run behind picks, and not put forth playoff energy defensively needs to be called out. Not acceptable. But so much was unacceptable this game that it would take the rest of the night to mention everything.

I'll throw two things out there. We can make it a group exercise. Point out every thing the Cavs did wrong.

1.) Shaq knows he's allowed to pass the ball, right? Can someone tell him to pass the fucking ball?

2.) Garnett misses nearly every shot he takes from the post, so we decide to front him with a 6'9 tweener and he gets three easy lay-ups on simple lob passes from Rondo. It makes no sense as to why we would attempt to front Kevin Garnett like that.

Biw
05-03-2010, 11:14 PM
Nobody connected with the franchise should be chilling out, if the fans can, fine. But, like I said in the Chicago series ...intensity and desire to play the game hard come playoff time should NEVER be an issue.

Given that ..we've got issues with key players being hurt, and other key players not playing up to their capabilities. Andy and Lebron are injury issues. Nobody truly knows how much Lebron is hurting. Mike Brown hasn't seen anything to make him feel he's hurt, but just about everyone else with the team sees a guy playing tentative. Andy's been playing hurt for awhile, and his back tightened up bad tonight.

When we go to Boston, we can't be wasting large chunks of the game not going after Boston the way they are vulnerable. You have to attack them with speed and athleticism, and when you go directly the opposite direction with personnel you play into their hands.

Very disheartening that we played so poorly tonight. Maybe one of the worst games of the season, actually.

My hope is that it is a wakeup call to players and coaches.

Seeing Mo just lazily run behind picks, and not put forth playoff energy defensively needs to be called out. Not acceptable. But so much was unacceptable this game that it would take the rest of the night to mention everything.

Just to make sure everyone reads this. Page 5.

zoomlebron
05-03-2010, 11:14 PM
On another topic... maybe it's time for the Cavs to stop doing what is getting them behind early, namely dumping the ball into Shaq. I do not understand the insistence on trying to establish Shaq against the Celtics. Run them off the floor.

Best post of the night. The Cavs come out very stagnant on offense by going to Shaq so frequently in the first quarter. It has a direct impact on LeBron's aggressiveness, and totally takes Mo out of the picture as one of our go-to scorers. We need to use Shaq as more of decoy rather than a go-to player. Whatever the case, we can't afford to continue to get down to teams early in games.

Deezus
05-03-2010, 11:14 PM
Fuck Cleveland i'm moving to Italy.

The apocolypse is near. I don't feel like spending 8000$ on video games like Sheed in this dump of a city.

If this is sarcasm... :chuckles:
If this is serious... :gtfo:



Game 3 is now a must win or the series is OVER, book it.

This series is over when a team wins 4 games, NOT 2. If we lose game 3, then we need game 4. Simple as that. I strongly believe we'll get one in Boston, either way.


My Thoughts:
- Sure, this game was disappointing, but with some added effort, we'll be fine.
- Lebron's elbow seems to loosen up as the game goes on... perhaps we should have him working it out well before game-time from now on to get it loose quicker.
- Mike Brown needs to find a solution for Jamison guarding KG... its not working!
- More JJ, Please!
- Rasheed will not shoot like that again in this series.
- Shaq will not miss 7 or 8 bunnies again this series.
- ....and finally, ADVERSITY IS GOOD! We all agree a lack of focus/effort is our main worry (besides Bron's elbow). The best thing to wake a team out of its slumber is adversity. KEEP THE FAITH!

bushwik
05-03-2010, 11:14 PM
Nobody connected with the franchise should be chilling out, if the fans can, fine. But, like I said in the Chicago series ...intensity and desire to play the game hard come playoff time should NEVER be an issue.

Given that ..we've got issues with key players being hurt, and other key players not playing up to their capabilities. Andy and Lebron are injury issues. Nobody truly knows how much Lebron is hurting. Mike Brown hasn't seen anything to make him feel he's hurt, but just about everyone else with the team sees a guy playing tentative. Andy's been playing hurt for awhile, and his back tightened up bad tonight.

When we go to Boston, we can't be wasting large chunks of the game not going after Boston the way they are vulnerable. You have to attack them with speed and athleticism, and when you go directly the opposite direction with personnel you play into their hands.

Very disheartening that we played so poorly tonight. Maybe one of the worst games of the season, actually.

My hope is that it is a wakeup call to players and coaches.

Seeing Mo just lazily run behind picks, and not put forth playoff energy defensively needs to be called out. Not acceptable. But so much was unacceptable this game that it would take the rest of the night to mention everything.

mo williams needs to sit on the bench...like i said, one of the worst defenders in the league.

Benedict_Boozer
05-03-2010, 11:14 PM
Mike Brown is going off in the press conference right now on NBA TV....

SuperSurge
05-03-2010, 11:15 PM
JJ should see some more minutes, right? BTW any word on Andy's back?

Mac
05-03-2010, 11:15 PM
We have played like crap the entire playoffs, I can't tell what the deal is with this team.

They will be lucky to beat Boston with their approach and demeanor. It's not looking good...

We looked like hot garbage against Chicago and against a washed up Boston team, we are looking like we cannot hang.

It's sad and pathetic, but so typical Cleveland.

GoGetta
05-03-2010, 11:15 PM
I want to post this but i dont want to create a new thread so ill put it here.

Mike brown, who im sure is a good guy, is not only a horrible coach, but seems like a stupid individual.

He thinks hes phil jackson not taking a timeout while boston is on a 13-0 run, he doesnt call out lebron for playing like trash, he doesnt play JJ Antawn Lebron at the front court till the final 5 minutes (our run), he over plays shaq, he overplays mo when hes off.

everytime he talks... durr durr duhh uhh errr durr huur duuur.

just look at him on the sidelines, he looks clueless everytime the cameras on him.

honestly, i cant wait to hear shaq rip him later on.

Gunther
05-03-2010, 11:16 PM
We were outscored 31-12 in the third quarter after only being down 4 at the half. The fact is that Boston played with far more intensity than we did at that point, and that was basically the game. You can't play with such a lack of intensity in the playoffs and expect to win. Boston nearly found this out in the fourth quarter.

But it's just one game. I hope you all didn't expect to go undefeated in the playoffs. We'll lose occasionally. The good news is that we have every opportunity to avenge the loss in Game 3. I expect a full out assault on the Celts at that time. Unless he is truly injured, which I don't think he is, LeBron will be loaded for bear in Game 3.

Dfor3
05-03-2010, 11:16 PM
I have chewed 6 gatorade caps into about 80 small little pieces in the last 30 minutes. My teeth are immensely sore. I just started on another one.

It's the only thing stopping me from destruction and chaos.

Ditto. Except mine are Deja Blue caps...

Anyway. We played like shit. No one thought Boston had a shot. Cavs were being well, the Cavs until there was 6 minutes left.

Key to game 3 - JJ Hickson.

GIVE THIS GUY SOME DAMN MINUTES. PLEASE. Shaq isn't getting it done. I'll live with Perkins trying to post up JJ. It can't be much worse than KG on Tawn (although that matchup was improved over the course of game 2.)

JJ had 3 and1s that I can remember, and then some. He out runs, out jumps, out everythings the celtics and MB wants to stick with Shaq and quite frankly, we didn't bring Shaq in for the Celtics. I understand the whole 'he's not in a rhythm, we need to get him back in the flow of the offense' Well if you don't play JJ then Shaq is going to get into the flow of the offSEASON.

More JJ. Less Shaq. No Z.

That is all.

Ignatius
05-03-2010, 11:17 PM
On another topic... maybe it's time for the Cavs to stop doing what is getting them behind early, namely dumping the ball into Shaq. I do not understand the insistence on trying to establish Shaq against the Celtics. Run them off the floor.

He's gonna have to find his rhythm at one point or another. You don't have many games to do that....this is the playoffs - it's unfortunate he didn't get a chance to do that at the end of the year because of the injury. You HAVE to keep going to him, but the hook has to be quick.

It's going to be tough to rely on Hickson at The Garden, but he's rested and healthy.

Noonan
05-03-2010, 11:17 PM
On another topic... maybe it's time for the Cavs to stop doing what is getting them behind early, namely dumping the ball into Shaq. I do not understand the insistence on trying to establish Shaq against the Celtics. Run them off the floor.

This.

Each game and half starts the same way. That needs to stop.

Ignatius
05-03-2010, 11:18 PM
No need to panic yet and the sky isn't about to fall. I'm more disappointed than pissed about this loss.
Losing a playoff game at home isn't the end of the world. It's more how the Cavs lost that is a little frustrating. For most of the night we saw most players giving a half ass effort and there was way too much sloppy play and execution.

Hopefully this is a much needed wake up call. It's the 2nd round of the playoffs you can't coast for much of the game then expect to turn it on and pull out the win anymore.
This game might be something the Cavs needed. I think we see a much more focused and intense team from now on.

There are times in series when if a player isn't getting it done and playing poorly in a game it makes sense to go with a bench player instead. This is especially true when you have a roster with as much depth as the Cavs. Mo Williams wasn't getting it done at either end tonight.

+1

blank964
05-03-2010, 11:18 PM
Nobody connected with the franchise should be chilling out, if the fans can, fine. But, like I said in the Chicago series ...intensity and desire to play the game hard come playoff time should NEVER be an issue.

Given that ..we've got issues with key players being hurt, and other key players not playing up to their capabilities. Andy and Lebron are injury issues. Nobody truly knows how much Lebron is hurting. Mike Brown hasn't seen anything to make him feel he's hurt, but just about everyone else with the team sees a guy playing tentative. Andy's been playing hurt for awhile, and his back tightened up bad tonight.

When we go to Boston, we can't be wasting large chunks of the game not going after Boston the way they are vulnerable. You have to attack them with speed and athleticism, and when you go directly the opposite direction with personnel you play into their hands.

Very disheartening that we played so poorly tonight. Maybe one of the worst games of the season, actually.

My hope is that it is a wakeup call to players and coaches.

Seeing Mo just lazily run behind picks, and not put forth playoff energy defensively needs to be called out. Not acceptable. But so much was unacceptable this game that it would take the rest of the night to mention everything.

It seems like we say this after every loss. At what point are these wakeup calls going to be too late or are going to actually make the team play better? I just don't understand why we need a kick in the ass to play/coach well in the playoffs.

The Voice
05-03-2010, 11:20 PM
Nobody connected with the franchise should be chilling out, if the fans can, fine. But, like I said in the Chicago series ...intensity and desire to play the game hard come playoff time should NEVER be an issue.

Given that ..we've got issues with key players being hurt, and other key players not playing up to their capabilities. Andy and Lebron are injury issues. Nobody truly knows how much Lebron is hurting. Mike Brown hasn't seen anything to make him feel he's hurt, but just about everyone else with the team sees a guy playing tentative. Andy's been playing hurt for awhile, and his back tightened up bad tonight.

When we go to Boston, we can't be wasting large chunks of the game not going after Boston the way they are vulnerable. You have to attack them with speed and athleticism, and when you go directly the opposite direction with personnel you play into their hands.

Very disheartening that we played so poorly tonight. Maybe one of the worst games of the season, actually.

My hope is that it is a wakeup call to players and coaches.

Seeing Mo just lazily run behind picks, and not put forth playoff energy defensively needs to be called out. Not acceptable. But so much was unacceptable this game that it would take the rest of the night to mention everything.

Oh, if Mike Brown understood this I'd chill out.

SuperSurge
05-03-2010, 11:20 PM
--Play JJ More...
--Take Mo OUT when he's cold and not playing D...
--Give Boobie a shot? 5 mins, 10 mins. Why not???

*****PLEASE stop dumping the ball into Shaq the first 4 or 5 possesions of the game... We are usually down 6-7 points after this, and get's NOBODY into a rythym, except the other teams' defense... Aso puts eveyone else in a daze... *****

Ignatius
05-03-2010, 11:21 PM
We have played like crap the entire playoffs, I can't tell what the deal is with this team.

They will be lucky to beat Boston with their approach and demeanor. It's not looking good...

We looked like hot garbage against Chicago and against a washed up Boston team, we are looking like we cannot hang.

It's sad and pathetic, but so typical Cleveland.

This little diatribe is so typical Cleveland.

Amherstcavsfan
05-03-2010, 11:22 PM
This little diatribe is so typical Cleveland.

So was that effort on the floor tonight.

Karma
05-03-2010, 11:23 PM
Why is it that we only use the show on the pick when Ilgauskas is out there? Varejao occasionally does but not to the same extent. Personally I love this defense against quicker guards and it ruins their rhythm. Can we please go back to it. I don't care how long it takes Shaq to get back. Rondo is the big difference right now.

Ruken
05-03-2010, 11:24 PM
Really hoping this game lights a fire under our asses and we play with some damn focus.

kevinoc0
05-03-2010, 11:25 PM
Seeing Mo just lazily run behind picks...needs to be called out

Even after your, well for lack of better words, "epic" posts throughout the seasons, I haven't read better comments.

He just isn't there come playoff time. Yes, he definitely helped will the Cavs to a win last night, but he also let them down TREMENDOUSLY tonight. Granted, we all see him as "great" in the regular season and let his D slide, but something needs to click in this dude's head DEFENSIVELY. Sure LBJ didn't have a great game and the superstar is easy to call out at this point in time, but it is Mo's CONSTANT defensive lapses that are to blame.

Furthermore, if I see him shoot another jumper on a fast break I'm going to lose it. Sure, go ahead and do it in the regular season, but when your team is down in the playoffs you don't just magically go try to find your rhythm when there is 22 seconds on the clock. You are a point guard. Help LBJ run the offense like your duty dictates.

*L-Train*
05-03-2010, 11:28 PM
paulpierce34

YES Sirrrrrrr

:thumbdown

Noonan
05-03-2010, 11:28 PM
Mo Williams was 1-9 with four points. His opposite number put up 13 and 19. There's so much wrong with his performance. It was like watching Ricky Davis wander around in a mid-February game. Total garbage.

Eli's Eyes
05-03-2010, 11:29 PM
It amazes my the amount of people on this board don't seem to realize LeBron is injured SIGNIFICANTLY. Dude has been driving left 80% of the time in Games 1 and 2.

I guess that shouldn't be too much of an excuse if he's on the court, but it certainly needs to be unanimously acknowledged, I'd say.

And I see people still confuse Hickson getting more time by Shaq receiving less. JJ took Andy's minutes in the 4th quarter, not Shaq's. Andy simply hasn't played well this postseason. Shaq has struggled, yes, but Andy is eating Hickson's minutes more than anyone else.

Ignatius
05-03-2010, 11:32 PM
Mo Williams was 1-9 with four points. His opposite number put up 13 and 19. There's so much wrong with his performance tonight it's going to take a long time for him to win me back. It was like watching Ricky Davis wander around in a mid-February game. Total garbage.

Parker deserves some blame as well. He's not quick enough to guard Allen (man to man and getting around screens). Delonte - on the other hand - is very effective at guarding Allen and getting over screens.

We just need to step it up. Less Shaq (at least less shots) and more J.J.

Karma
05-03-2010, 11:35 PM
It amazes my the amount of people on this board don't seem to realize LeBron is injured SIGNIFICANTLY. Dude has been driving left 80% of the time in Games 1 and 2.

I guess that shouldn't be too much of an excuse if he's on the court, but it certainly needs to be unanimously acknowledged, I'd say.

And I see people still confuse Hickson getting more time by Shaq receiving less. JJ took Andy's minutes in the 4th quarter, not Shaq's. Andy simply hasn't played well this postseason. Shaq has struggled, yes, but Andy is eating Hickson's minutes more than anyone else.

Ummm Varejao was fine tonight. He is banged up though. Hickson if anyone should be stealing a few minutes from Antawn and a little of Shaq's and some of our smaller guys when we play small. To be honest Hickson's minutes when the game mattered were poor. The 4th quarter was garbage ball.

You can't give LeBron an injury pass then not for Varejao who depends totally on throwing his body around.

As for not showing up, hello Delonte West.

Wine and Gold
05-03-2010, 11:37 PM
JJ should see some more minutes, right? BTW any word on Andy's back?

Andy's back isn't good. I'm sure everyone has seen AV not playing like AV of late. It's been an issue, and I have kind of alluded to him not being right physically. But, we have a break between games to try and get it playable. To say it's worrisome would be an understatement.

He's vitally important to this team.

johnnycake44022
05-03-2010, 11:37 PM
Just got back from the game....left early....wasn't going to waste one more minute watching that trash.

In a brief scan of this thread, the people blaming Brown should watch the game again, Plain and simple, the players....all of them......played with zero energy (with the exception of Hickson) and little aggressiveness. This is ALL on their back. There are no desperate needs for adjustments (except for the Jamison matchup...somethin has to change there). Doc Rivers made no adjustments from the first game just ask that his players play better and it worked. These guys need to step the fuck up.

bushwik
05-03-2010, 11:38 PM
It amazes my the amount of people on this board don't seem to realize LeBron is injured SIGNIFICANTLY. Dude has been driving left 80% of the time in Games 1 and 2.

I guess that shouldn't be too much of an excuse if he's on the court, but it certainly needs to be unanimously acknowledged, I'd say.

And I see people still confuse Hickson getting more time by Shaq receiving less. JJ took Andy's minutes in the 4th quarter, not Shaq's. Andy simply hasn't played well this postseason. Shaq has struggled, yes, but Andy is eating Hickson's minutes more than anyone else.

I dont think anyone doubts the elbow his a HUGE factor, but it still doesnt give the rest of the team a pass not box out or hustle for loose balls and rebounds. I put this lack of effort squarely on Mike Brown. He has yet to show me that he can get this team going. It always LeBron or someone bailing his ass out. Sit these fuckers if they dont want to play the right brand of basketball! I hate to be so negative as this is only GM2 but lets be honest, we've played exactly one good game this entire playoffs, GM4 in Chicago. The rest of the time we've been in cruise control. Oh and and dont even get me started in the FREE THROWS!!! Teams who miss that many FT's dont win championships.

Get it the fuck together Cavaliers!

Triplethreat
05-03-2010, 11:40 PM
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/4976/300101827.jpg
+
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/1310/lebroninknicksuniform2.jpg
=
:D :D :D :D

bushwik
05-03-2010, 11:43 PM
Just got back from the game....left early....wasn't going to waste one more minute watching that trash.

In a brief scan of this thread, the people blaming Brown should watch the game again, Plain and simple, the players....all of them......played with zero energy (with the exception of Hickson) and little aggressiveness. This is ALL on their back. There are no desperate needs for adjustments (except for the Jamison matchup...somethin has to change there). Doc Rivers made no adjustments from the first game just ask that his players play better and it worked. These guys need to step the fuck up.

No excuses this is the coaches job, to get them fired up and ready to play the right way...The way they played tonight showed me that they were not prepared to take the floor mentally. They were run off the court. It was plain as day that Celtics wanted that game more.

Deezus
05-03-2010, 11:43 PM
It's sad and pathetic, but so typical Cleveland.


This little diatribe is so typical Cleveland.

If I could thank Mar's post 100 times, I would. So sick of this negative bullshit. At what point does this become a self-fulfilling prophecy? Might as well go and root for the Buffalo Bills, Cubs, and Clippers with this mentality.

Think about this: Last year, the Lakers got taken to 7 games by a Houston team that was missing its best player most of the series... They won the title. The year before, the same Boston team we're playing got taken to 7 games in rounds 1 and 2 by vastly under-talented opponents (Atl and our Cavs)... They won the title. If we are the best team, we'll win it all. I still believe we're the best team! The only things that can hold us back are coaching and injuries (we may be seeing some of both right now, unfortunately).

johnnycake44022
05-03-2010, 11:46 PM
No excuses this is the coaches job, to get them fired up and ready to play the right way...The way they played tonight showed me that they were not prepared to take the floor mentally. They were run off the court. It was plain as day that Celtics wanted that game more.

If the players need Mike Brown to motivate them, in the playoffs, against a team they hate, and at home with the crowd to fire them up we are fucked.

Marcus
05-03-2010, 11:46 PM
Shaq should ONLY be playing when Perkins is out there. Other than that, he should not see the light of day in this series. The Cavs play so much better against this team when they can run with Hickson and Varejao and when they use a faster, more athletic lineup. Save Shaq and Z for Orlando, Los Angeles, or whoever the hell we face after the Celtics if we get that far.

blank964
05-03-2010, 11:51 PM
Just out of curiosity, why does Mo take more flak out of anyone else on the team on this board? I mean please believe he played like shit tonight and on Saturday until he baptized Pierce but I don't understand why we don't have threads hating specifically on other players.

The "MVP" played like garbage too along with the rest of the team, but why does a lot of the blame go to Mo? I'm just confused because I was under the impression that tonight it was a complete team effort in sucking until the game was pretty much out of reach. Really Andy was the only person I saw playing decent tonight.

Funkmastabuck
05-03-2010, 11:51 PM
What's shocking to me is how much the elbow must hurt Lebron when he's shooting long jumpers. If you would have told me Lebron had an elbow injury, I would have assumed he'd be hesitant to drive but would just fall in love with long jumpers. That's not the case.

And I think it is confusing the other 4 guys on the court on offense. Yes, they know he's hurt. But he'll hold the ball, be given a few feet of space, and turn down the open 3 ball to throw a pass all the way across the court to a somewhat guarded Jamison, or Moon, or Delonte. It's not quite running the offense. And it's like LeIso but he won't shoot it.

And it's a mess to watch.

redscoon
05-03-2010, 11:53 PM
This team hasn't won a road playoff game against a legit contender since Detroit was still relevant. Until they prove that they can do so, everybody should be feeling uneasy.

Lebron's giving his "no worries" presser here. It would be more comforting if it wasn't the same cliches he tossed out while Orlando was eliminating us.

johnnycake44022
05-03-2010, 11:55 PM
Just out of curiosity, why does Mo take more flak out of anyone else on the team on this board? I mean please believe he played like shit tonight and on Saturday until he baptized Pierce but I don't understand why we don't have threads hating specifically on other players.

The "MVP" played like garbage too along with the rest of the team, but why does a lot of the blame go to Mo? I'm just confused because I was under the impression that tonight it was a complete team effort in sucking until the game was pretty much out of reach. Really Andy was the only person I saw playing decent tonight.

I'm all for giving Lebron his due...the offense is built around him. If he is not aggressive, we are not going to get it done. There were few open shots, I thought, because he didnt drive very much at all. My wife pointed out he looked stoned (and he did actually), well he played that way for sure. This was a total failure on all fronts.

bob2the2nd
05-03-2010, 11:55 PM
Andy's back isn't good. I'm sure everyone has seen AV not playing like AV of late. It's been an issue, and I have kind of alluded to him not being right physically. But, we have a break between games to try and get it playable. To say it's worrisome would be an understatement.

He's vitally important to this team.

obviously you cant say too much W&G but any word about possible adjustments. maybe players currently on the bench coming in and putting in real minutes. Z, powe, and boobie all come to mind. Each them has played big playoff minutes before and would fill a role this team is lacking.

bushwik
05-03-2010, 11:55 PM
If the players need Mike Brown to motivate them, in the playoffs, against a team they hate, and at home with the crowd to fire them up we are fucked.


Ok well who is held accountable? If Mo Williams lets Tony Allen walk right by him for a lay up 2 times in a row down the floor, why is he still on floor?? Sit that fucker and put someone in who wants to play defense. I'm not placing all the blame on MB as the players are the one's that are ultimately responsible but he has control over who's on the floor and if a guy isnt producing or even worse isnt playing hard you make sure that he knows it and take him out and show him that this is unacceptable.

thecrowning
05-03-2010, 11:56 PM
Just got back from the game....left early....wasn't going to waste one more minute watching that trash.

In a brief scan of this thread, the people blaming Brown should watch the game again, Plain and simple, the players....all of them......played with zero energy (with the exception of Hickson) and little aggressiveness. This is ALL on their back. There are no desperate needs for adjustments (except for the Jamison matchup...somethin has to change there). Doc Rivers made no adjustments from the first game just ask that his players play better and it worked. These guys need to step the fuck up.

I understand where you are coming from, but this issue has been beaten to death. EFFORT. Mike Brown can and shall never hide from this responsibility. It is obvious that he does not hold the rein of this team, Lebron does. Personally, I put the blame on Mike Brown, ENTIRELY. You don't blame your troops for having a low morale, you blame the general.

It always amazes me, how for the entire 82 game season, that this repeated habit of this team has not been corrected. It falls on the coach. If the lack of effort tonight is "uncharacteristic", i may give him a pass, but this "lack of effort" is a behavior that Mike Brown lallow it to grow into a habit. He is totally responsible.

He is the HEAD COACH, he is entitled to be stubborn with his strategy, but to not establish his control of the rein, and keep letting the players "police themselves" is unacceptable.

He can't just start questioning the efforts of his players because he just got embarassed at home in the playoffs. The efforts were not there in Game 1, he should not be happy about that even after a win.

I.K.W.T
05-03-2010, 11:56 PM
You know, it's tough to chill out, so much rides on this postseason it is not even funny... We just lost home court advantage in this series, and quite frankly, it could have easily been 0-2.. There's just so much at stake, we have to do this........

johnnycake44022
05-04-2010, 12:01 AM
Ok well who is held accountable? If Mo Williams lets Tony Allen walk right by him for a lay up 2 times in a row down the floor, why is he still on floor?? Sit that fucker and put someone in who wants to play defense. I'm not placing all the blame on MB as the players are the one's that are ultimately responsible but he has control over who's on the floor and if a guy isnt producing or even worse isnt playing hard you make sure that he knows it and take him out and show him that this is unacceptable.

The players are responsible...period. Who do you put in when no one is playing with intensity, specifically at the guard position.

Silky Smooth
05-04-2010, 12:07 AM
Jamison needs to utilize his speed, Shaq needs to get better post position and SCORE THE DAMN BALL.

Mo needs to make the in between shot, which he was so good at doing last season.

When Delonte comes in the game, he needs to look to score because that's why he comes off the bench.

Our 3 point shooters need to find there stroke. Parker is who i am talking about because when he doesnt score there is no reason to have him in the game.

BOOBIE TIME!!! Boobie needs to get in this series. Also to be honest, he would probably do a better job on Ray than anybody else has done. GET THAT BOY IN THE GAMES!!!

johnnycake44022
05-04-2010, 12:08 AM
I understand where you are coming from, but this issue has been beaten to death. EFFORT. Mike Brown can and shall never hide from this responsibility. It is obvious that he does not hold the rein of this team, Lebron does. Personally, I put the blame on Mike Brown, ENTIRELY. You don't blame your troops for having a low morale, you blame the general.

It always amazes me, how for the entire 82 game season, that this repeated habit of this team has not been corrected. It falls on the coach. If the lack of effort tonight is "uncharacteristic", i may give him a pass, but this "lack of effort" is a behavior that Mike Brown lallow it to grow into a habit. He is totally responsible.

He is the HEAD COACH, he is entitled to be stubborn with his strategy, but to not establish his control of the rein, and keep letting the players "police themselves" is unacceptable.

He can't just start questioning the efforts of his players because he just got embarassed at home in the playoffs. The efforts were not there in Game 1, he should not be happy about that even after a win.

LOL, this is the playoffs....these players live for this time of year. If you were Mike Brown, who would you have replaced tonight on the floor to inject energy that he didn't? Z? Boobie? From what I saw (and I have been to most of the home games this season) this was the worst effort I have seen, and it was in the playoffs. Thats on the players.

bushwik
05-04-2010, 12:11 AM
The players are responsible...period. Who do you put in when no one is playing with intensity, specifically at the guard position.
Shit, I dont give a shit who plays - Put in Boobie for chrissakes, this is why MB doesnt get any respect. He lets these guys walk all over him. Yes they are professionals getting paid millions to do what they do but there is a reason coaches get fired..... He is like Mike Woodson in ATL only luckier because he's got LeBron on his team. The guy serious needs to take it up a notch. You cant tell me that you like the way this team responds to adversity during the game. Like thecrowning said in the prior post, this is the coaches job....I'm sorry thats just the way it is.

CHIMOCHIS
05-04-2010, 12:11 AM
Chill out? Lol tell that to all those confident posters on here saying we were going to "kill" the celtics. I see a confident team who can easily be up 2-0. Lol some posters even were acting like the celtics having a lead in the 1st half wasn't a big deal.

InBoobieWeTrust
05-04-2010, 12:13 AM
Chill out? Lol tell that to all those confident posters on here saying we were going to "kill" the celtics. I see a confident team who can easily be up 2-0. Lol some posters even were acting like the celtics having a lead in the 1st half wasn't a big deal.

A 4 point lead at halftime was not a big deal.

a 32-11 beatdown or whatever it was in the third quarter was a big fucking deal.

johnnycake44022
05-04-2010, 12:14 AM
Shit, I dont give a shit who plays - Put in Boobie for chrissakes, this is why MB doesnt get any respect. He lets these guys walk all over him. Yes they are professionals getting paid millions to do what they do but there is a reason coaches get fired..... He is like Mike Woodson in ATL only luckier because he's got LeBron on his team. The guy serious needs to take it up a notch. You cant tell me that you like the way this team responds to adversity during the game. Like thecrowning said in the prior post, this is the coaches job....I'm sorry thats just the way it is.

Like I said, and I will repeat it. If a head coach, any head coach, needs to motivate his players, in the playoffs, at home with the crowd on your side, against a team that you hate, you got problems.

kidduck
05-04-2010, 12:14 AM
You would think that when Mo is clearly off his jumper, it would be worth at least trying Boobie.

Defense is important, but you can't win without putting up some points.

cav jvl
05-04-2010, 12:16 AM
The players are responsible...period. Who do you put in when no one is playing with intensity, specifically at the guard position.

Boobie, Z, Leon Powe....all guys with good playoff histories. Even Jawad with his lenth and shooting could have gotten a look. Our bench is strong. When things are clearly not working, MB needs to make some changes quickly. At least MB has historically made good adjustments between games....it is a a 7 game series.

bushwik
05-04-2010, 12:17 AM
Like I said, and I will repeat it. If a head coach, any head coach, needs to motivate his players, in the playoffs, at home with the crowd on your side, against a team that you hate, you got problems.

I think we might have problem then

Czvosec
05-04-2010, 12:18 AM
The only positive I can find is that the Miami Heat, the year they won the title in 06, lost game 1 (at home) of the East Semis by a wide margin to the Nets. They got whacked. However, Miami came back to win four straight games and go to the ECF, and eventually the title.

The only difference is the Heat DESTROYED the Nets in game 2, thus gaining all the momentum going to NJ.

It will be different for Cleveland, who, outside of one half, have looked completely outclassed.

Double O
05-04-2010, 12:18 AM
This game falls squarely on the Cavaliers players. There was no reason for us to lose this game tonight, and again, another slow start cost us. Boston saw this in Game 1, and didn't ease off the throttle this time.

I'm very confident in our team, and you all should be too. We can steal a game in Boston...hell, we HAVE to. LeBron played poorly, Shaq played poorly, Mo played poorly. I mean, we can go on and on about this, but all of our bitching won't change tonight's outcome.

To be very honest, I hope no one will be surprised if Boston wins Game 3; I believe they'll ride this momentum as far as it will take them, but that will only be until Sunday (or Monday, not sure when Game 4 is.) BUT, I believe that they'l swipe Game 4, win Game 5 at home, and close it out in Boston.

Rasheed looked like he was playing for the Pistons tonight, and that has happened ZERO times all year, EXCEPT tonight. He won't play like that again, and as long as we find a way to contain Rondo, we'll be good.

Go Cavs!

thecrowning
05-04-2010, 12:19 AM
LOL, this is the playoffs....these players live for this time of year. If you were Mike Brown, who would you have replaced tonight on the floor to inject energy that he didn't? Z? Boobie? From what I saw (and I have been to most of the home games this season) this was the worst effort I have seen, and it was in the playoffs. Thats on the players.

Imo, sometimes, its not really about who you put in the game to replace the players who is playing with no effort, it is more about pinning his ass on the bench to send a message. This is the best way to make sure that players won't get complacent because PT is not guaranteed. Sadly, this is best served during the regular season, when you can groom such a culture. Right now, his hands are somewhat tied as he has to play his "best" players.

As i said, I put it on the coach, not because of what happened solely on this game, what he didn't do or did; its rather about his season long acceptance of this complacent behavior.

Noticed JJ is the only one playing consistently with any sort of effort (error or not) because he is the only one in the rotation that MB did that to.

Chris
05-04-2010, 12:23 AM
This game falls squarely on the Cavaliers players. There was no reason for us to lose this game tonight, and again, another slow start cost us. Boston saw this in Game 1, and didn't ease off the throttle this time.

I'm very confident in our team, and you all should be too. We can steal a game in Boston...hell, we HAVE to. LeBron played poorly, Shaq played poorly, Mo played poorly. I mean, we can go on and on about this, but all of our bitching won't change tonight's outcome.

To be very honest, I hope no one will be surprised if Boston wins Game 3; I believe they'll ride this momentum as far as it will take them, but that will only be until Sunday (or Monday, not sure when Game 4 is.) BUT, I believe that they'l swipe Game 4, win Game 5 at home, and close it out in Boston.

Rasheed looked like he was playing for the Pistons tonight, and that has happened ZERO times all year, EXCEPT tonight. He won't play like that again, and as long as we find a way to contain Rondo, we'll be good.

Go Cavs!

I like your optimism, but we just got raped at home. Boston's tenacity and D is reminiscent of 07-08 title team. At Boston I dont like our chances.

ChocolateButter
05-04-2010, 12:27 AM
The sheer lack of effort tonight was nothing short of sickening.

Outside of JJ Hickson who played with a consistant intensity and energy level every other player just seemed to coast through large stretches of this game.

This is not the kind of effort you want to see from a team with championship hopes in the playoffs.

Pioneer10
05-04-2010, 12:28 AM
A 4 point lead at halftime was not a big deal.

a 32-11 beatdown or whatever it was in the third quarter was a big fucking deal.
What's worrisome at home the Celtics have won 3/4 halves against us. Remember we were down by 13 in the first half. So basically in 3 out of 4 halves we've been double digits to this team!

They've looked like the better team by a fair margin which is something that is very concerning. The same thing happened in the regular season until we got our lineups straightened. Can't emphasize this enough even in the regular season the Celts dominanted certain lineups against us while we dominated them when we switched them up. The problem all our good lineups have had AV and Lebron in them: if they're hurt that might be our chances right there

johnnycake44022
05-04-2010, 12:29 AM
Imo, sometimes, its not really about who you put in the game to replace the players who is playing with no effort, it is more about pinning his ass on the bench to send a message. This is the best way to make sure that players won't get complacent because PT is not guaranteed. Sadly, this is best served during the regular season, when you can groom such a culture. Right now, his hands are somewhat tied as he has to play his "best" players.

As i said, I put it on the coach, not because of what happened solely on this game, what he didn't do or did; its rather about his season long acceptance of this complacent behavior.

Noticed JJ is the only one playing consistently with any sort of effort (error or not) because he is the only one in the rotation that MB did that to.

Fair points...I am sure he could have done this more during the regular season but my point is the loss tonight has little to do with Brown. These players should be motivated. They came out and stunk the joint up. There were smatterings of boo's..... it was that bad.

Double O
05-04-2010, 12:29 AM
Cmstophe, while I agree to an extent, we've won in the Garden this year already, so the team knows we aren't climbing Mount Everest here. All it takes is one off game from them, and we're right back in this.

Like I said, I fully expect us to lose again, and more than likely, it's going to be on Friday. But with the players that we have, I expect them to take this and build upon it. Everyone here knows that this team needed a good kick in the dick, and we got POUNDED tonight. This can only serve as motivation for all of the guys who played poorly tonight, and they know they can't do this again. They'll play the way that they're supposed to, and we'll all be happy again.

Coyote850
05-04-2010, 12:31 AM
Chill out? No way. More like rant:

The Cavs just gave an aging, but very experianced team, a spark. You coulda stuck a knife in the Celtics, instead you gave them a shot of Viagra.

Ray Allen can shoot.
Paul Pierce can shoot.
Rasheed Wallace can shoot.
Rajon Rondo is one hell of a point guard.
Kevin Garnnet is still a force.

Do I think the Celtics will win the series? No. But the simple fact is the Cavs have not taken the Celtics seriously. Well guess what Cavs, you just got your ass handed to you, at home, in the playoffs. You don't wake the fuck up, you'll be watching the Magic and Celtics in the ECF.
'Bron? Hey MVP motherfucker.............Know that little trophy you just got? Put it the fuck in your closet, cause it don't mean shit right now. MVPs don't ALLOW their team to be blown out at home in round 2 of the playoffs. Wake the fuck up. Yea your arm might hurt, so fucking what. You've waited you entire life for this shot at a Championship. Now grab it by the throat and bring it home.

Gimme Some Mo
05-04-2010, 12:33 AM
I'll believe we can win in Boston when I see it. We still haven't won there in ages (no, a win against them without Pierce doesn't count).

My original pick for this series was Cavs in 7.

My 2nd guess was Boston in 6.

After losing a home game, I am going with Boston in 6.

I really can't believe some of you guys are acting like Boston is nothing.

And just to get a little rant in there: How the fuck does this team and LeBron need motivation? WTF!!!? I cannot believe we are in the semi-finals and these guys act like we are playing a home game vs the Kings in December.

Anyone know Bostons record when all 5 starters play? This team got healthy at the right time and they match up perfectly against us.

johnnycake44022
05-04-2010, 12:33 AM
Boobie, Z, Leon Powe....all guys with good playoff histories. Even Jawad with his lenth and shooting could have gotten a look. Our bench is strong. When things are clearly not working, MB needs to make some changes quickly. At least MB has historically made good adjustments between games....it is a a 7 game series.

This was not about adjustments. I am not defending Brown on this....I think we need to try to figure out the Jamison/KG matchup but throwing Jawad Williams or Boobie Gibson in tonight would have done nothing. Teams shorten/limit their rotations in the playoffs for a reason.

J_J
05-04-2010, 12:34 AM
To me, it is very disappointing that it's now 2 games we have to fight back to win. Fortunately we won game 1 but one action needs to be made which is don't make Shaq as the #1 option in the first and 3rd quarters. It's not a coincidence that we start out slow for both of those quarters in both games. We force to give the ball to Shaq as if he's during his prime time. We brought Shaq to play against Dwight Howard and Gasol-like people. We didn't bring him as the 1st and 2nd option. Well it's great to get him going but giving him the ball up so high and constantly giving it to him does no good.

Why can't we get our guards penetrate to the basket and feed it off to Shaq and our big men for easy dunks, pick and roll at the top and have Shaq roll to the basket where he gets the ball very deep inside. That's what we need to do.

thecrowning
05-04-2010, 12:36 AM
Like I said, and I will repeat it. If a head coach, any head coach, needs to motivate his players, in the playoffs, at home with the crowd on your side, against a team that you hate, you got problems.

The team's long term goal is to win a championship, i am sure everyone knows that, wants that. Shorter term goal is to beat the Celtics, I am sure they know that as well. They are all moltivated in that sense.

However, to truly "take it one game at a time, one possession at a time" is a hard feat that requires grooming. The Cavs has been getting by too much in the regular season without adhering to that principle.

The desire of winning the championship and the moltivation that comes from that can not make the players to FOCUS on the present moment. The only thing that will make the players focus NOW, is the consequences of what will happen NOW if they don't. This is something they don't feel the urgency of, JJ feels that cause if he mess up here and there, he will lose minutes. It is up to the headcoach to create the short term pressure to moltivate the players, you can't just throw out a grand goal, and ask everyone to play with urgency. This is Mike Brown's job and his robotic substitution obviously counters such an effect.

wremy
05-04-2010, 12:43 AM
i think people are pissed because we as fans seem to want this more than the players....I'm a 30 year old dude that has some game and plays 2-3 nights a week and played harder last week than our guys have fro 6 out of the first 8 qtrs this series
Like I said in the game thread... I was fired up all day for this game and this is what I get to watch....a bunch of guys half assing it all over the court...this team has never had a killer instinct...they give up big leads instead of burying teams...I also hear LBJ sau I hate to lose...blah blah...well I hate to lose to and I'd be damned if I'm gonna watch my team go down 10+ points and sit back and make shit passes,not attack the hoop,and look uninterested on the defensive end when I am the 25 yr old 2 time MVP with all the skill in the world........that is what pisses me off the most....alot of these guys these days lack heart.....I hated Kobe and still do but I respect him more now because he truly don't give a fuck if you like him or not he is out there to whip your ass....that shit tonight was pitiful and it falls on 23 and his approach to the game......play your ass off,act like you give a shit,and attack the fuckin basket and take over the game like a star is supposed to do...not play like you're a scared disinterested girl scout with no PRIDE....I could never sit back and watch that shit happen without just attacking the damn hoop pissed off after my team just went down 10 or 12.......he should know better than that and I think alot of us fans feel that way right now....we would have played balls out but instead we fet to watch our star coast in huge game that we should have made a statement in .. he should have let them know that he was the MVP,they are too old to stop him and the Cavs on their way to a ring and he didn't...he bitched up

Ignatius
05-04-2010, 12:45 AM
LOL, this is the playoffs....these players live for this time of year. If you were Mike Brown, who would you have replaced tonight on the floor to inject energy that he didn't? Z? Boobie? From what I saw (and I have been to most of the home games this season) this was the worst effort I have seen, and it was in the playoffs. Thats on the players.

Yes, the players shot 40% from the field, 19% from 3 range, and 68.4% from the line. That is on the players. They shot horribly. FTs take discipline and practice and repetition....and they are going to kill us if we don't start doing a better job at those things.

Pioneer10
05-04-2010, 12:50 AM
What's really scaring me is that we're playing like this at home.
I was expecting one of these games to happen on the road but not at home.
That being said Boston has been a very good road team but not a very good home team this season so at least that's on the bright side.

johnnycake44022
05-04-2010, 12:50 AM
The team's long term goal is to win a championship, i am sure everyone knows that, wants that. Shorter term goal is to beat the Celtics, I am sure they know that as well. They are all moltivated in that sense.

However, to truly "take it one game at a time, one possession at a time" is a hard feat that requires grooming. The Cavs has been getting by too much in the regular season without adhering to that principle.

The desire of winning the championship and the moltivation that comes from that can not make the players to FOCUS on the present moment. The only thing that will make the players focus NOW, is the consequences of what will happen NOW if they don't. This is something they don't feel the urgency of, JJ feels that cause if he mess up here and there, he will lose minutes. It is up to the headcoach to create the short term pressure to moltivate the players, you can't just throw out a grand goal, and ask everyone to play with urgency. This is Mike Brown's job and his robotic substitution obviously counters such an effect.

This is the NBA, with highly paid players that have worked their whole lives to get to this point. You cannot put their lack of effort on Brown, which is why we lost this game. Perhaps you can argue that he could have made some adjustments, which I think would have been irrelevant tonight, but I disagree with your premise that punitive substitutions during the regular season would have made a difference tonight. As I said, I have seen all the games this year at home, and by far, not even close, this was the least motivated group of players I have seen. They have to want it, and tonight, they simply didnít.

johnnycake44022
05-04-2010, 12:55 AM
Yes, the players shot 40% from the field, 19% from 3 range, and 68.4% from the line. That is on the players. They shot horribly. FTs take discipline and practice and repetition....and they are going to kill us if we don't start doing a better job at those things.

Great point...I was listening to Joe Tait on the way home about the lack of focus at the line. Imagine if we were 75-80%.....how close would we have been with that little comeback in the 4th.....probably within 5 which would have made this a completely different game with 3-4 mins to go.

rjchpd
05-04-2010, 12:57 AM
I am certainly disappointed with the outcome of this game. I thought the celtics were very sharp in all aspects of the game, including their defense. The cavs were pretty much on the ropes all game, and were able to throw a few counter punches. However, in the end the celtics were too much for them.
Observations:
Lebron is definitely affected by this elbow situation. He's been playing at a historical level since game 7 of the boston series in 08 and I've never seen him this passive, especially in a big game at home.

The cavs need improved guard play. The guards are too inconsistent. Rondo needs to guard someone on the other end. Mo and others need to step up and make plays.

The cavs need to play up-tempo. They need to play aggressively on the defensive end as well. They have athleticism and speed at the wing position. There is no way that pierce should go off in this series.

Jamison cannot guard KG on the block. An adjustment needs to be made there.


The series is tied and this is the first real adversity this team has seen in the post season thus far. The good news is that they have the personnel at their disposal. It's up to the coaching staff and the players to do the right thing.
You have to overcome adversity and challenges to win a ring. This is the time for the Cavs to show some fight and solve these issues. So my fellow cavs fans rally around the team. This is not the time for negativity. They weren't going to 15-1.

swinger5
05-04-2010, 12:58 AM
i think people are pissed because we as fans seem to want this more than the players....I'm a 30 year old dude that has some game and plays 2-3 nights a week and played harder last week than our guys have fro 6 out of the first 8 qtrs this series
Like I said in the game thread... I was fired up all day for this game and this is what I get to watch....a bunch of guys half assing it all over the court...this team has never had a killer instinct...they give up big leads instead of burying teams...I also hear LBJ sau I hate to lose...blah blah...well I hate to lose to and I'd be damned if I'm gonna watch my team go down 10+ points and sit back and make shit passes,not attack the hoop,and look uninterested on the defensive end when I am the 25 yr old 2 time MVP with all the skill in the world........that is what pisses me off the most....alot of these guys these days lack heart.....I hated Kobe and still do but I respect him more now because he truly don't give a fuck if you like him or not he is out there to whip your ass....that shit tonight was pitiful and it falls on 23 and his approach to the game......play your ass off,act like you give a shit,and attack the fuckin basket and take over the game like a star is supposed to do...not play like you're a scared disinterested girl scout with no PRIDE....I could never sit back and watch that shit happen without just attacking the damn hoop pissed off after my team just went down 10 or 12.......he should know better than that and I think alot of us fans feel that way right now....we would have played balls out but instead we fet to watch our star coast in huge game that we should have made a statement in .. he should have let them know that he was the MVP,they are too old to stop him and the Cavs on their way to a ring and he didn't...he bitched up

+1

Feel the same way...

Ignatius
05-04-2010, 12:59 AM
I am certainly disappointed with the outcome of this game. I thought the celtics were very sharp in all aspects of the game, including their defense. The cavs were pretty much on the ropes all game, and were able to throw a few counter punches. However, in the end the celtics were too much for them.
Observations:
Lebron is definitely affected by this elbow situation. He's been playing at a historical level since game 7 of the boston series in 08 and I've never seen him this passive, especially in a big game at home.

The cavs need improved guard play. The guards are too inconsistent. Rondo needs to guard someone on the other end. Mo and others need to step up and make plays.

The cavs need to play up-tempo. They need to play aggressively on the defensive end as well. They have athleticism and speed at the wing position. There is no way that pierce should go off in this series.

Jamison cannot guard KG on the block. An adjustment needs to be made there.


The series is tied and this is the first real adversity this team has seen in the post season thus far. The good news is that they have the personnel at their disposal. It's up to the coaching staff and the players to do the right thing.
You have to overcome adversity and challenges to win a ring. This is the time for the Cavs to show some fight and solve these issues. So my fellow cavs fans rally around the team. This is not the time for negativity. They weren't going to 15-1.

http://img.ffffound.com/static-data/assets/6/9f6912dc13eae5389b645f9de8c66b75c54744f5_m.gif

Gimme Some Mo
05-04-2010, 12:59 AM
Jamison's charmin softness is really showing me why he has never won anything. I may be alone, but I hate his style of play at the 4 spot. Jump shots don't win playoff games.

Clinton91
05-04-2010, 01:01 AM
Jamison's charmin softness is really showing me why he has never won anything. I may be alone, but I hate his style of play at the 4 spot. Jump shots don't win playoff games.

Flip shots do....he's so much more than a "Jumpshootah"...we just don't use him the correct way...MB is our coach.

johnnycake44022
05-04-2010, 01:03 AM
Jamison's charmin softness is really showing me why he has never won anything. I may be alone, but I hate his style of play at the 4 spot. Jump shots don't win playoff games.

You are not alone...KG had anything he wanted...imagine the score if he knee wasnt gone. I also maintain that that matchup is causing us problems all over.....we are now starting to have to double team him which opens this up for all the other players.

InBoobieWeTrust
05-04-2010, 01:03 AM
Jamison's charmin softness is really showing me why he has never won anything. I may be alone, but I hate his style of play at the 4 spot. Jump shots don't win playoff games.

"Charmin softness"?

Based on?

Clinton91
05-04-2010, 01:05 AM
"Charmin softness"?

Based on?

He's just overreacting...how about JJ tonight with 1 rebound....and people wonder why he doesn't play a lot.

iEchoic
05-04-2010, 01:05 AM
Jamison's charmin softness is really showing me why he has never won anything. I may be alone, but I hate his style of play at the 4 spot. Jump shots don't win playoff games.

He isn't used correctly. He's basically being used as a catch-and-shoot guy. Well damn, we have plenty of those already.

Northstar
05-04-2010, 01:08 AM
We should have gotten Murphy if we wanted a 3 point shooting PF. First of all he's better at three's, and second he is tall enough to actually effect Garnett and Gasol on defense.

InBoobieWeTrust
05-04-2010, 01:08 AM
He isn't used correctly. He's basically being used as a catch-and-shoot guy. Well damn, we have plenty of those already.

It's not like he's scoring on jumpshots at one of the lowest rates of his career(and conversely, scoring inside at one of the higher rates of his career) or anything.

Oh wait, that IS what is happening. The idea that Jamison is nothing but a spot up shooter here is a fallacy perpetuated by stupidity.

InBoobieWeTrust
05-04-2010, 01:10 AM
We should have gotten Murphy if we wanted a 3 point shooting PF. First of all he's better at three's, and second he is tall enough to actually effect Garnett and Gasol on defense.

Murphy has no effect on anyone on defense, much less Garnett and Gasol. Murphy would have a hard time defending Theo Ratliff on the block.


The last three posts about Jamison(GimmeSomeMo,iEchoic, yourself) are bordering on 1:00 AM ridiculousness out of anger and frustration posts...actually, that's exactly what they are.

thecrowning
05-04-2010, 01:10 AM
This is the NBA, with highly paid players that have worked their whole lives to get to this point. You cannot put their lack of effort on Brown, which is why we lost this game. Perhaps you can argue that he could have made some adjustments, which I think would have been irrelevant tonight, but I disagree with your premise that punitive substitutions during the regular season would have made a difference tonight. As I said, I have seen all the games this year at home, and by far, not even close, this was the least motivated group of players I have seen. They have to want it, and tonight, they simply didnít.

NBA or not, they are all human. I agree that no adjustment tonight would have made much of a difference, not at all, which is my entire point. I would say the effect of the desire to play with intensity would always come in spurts during a 48 min game, that is acceptable, even in the playoffs. The rest of the time, you just play according to your habits, the Cavs has extremely bad habits accumulating along the entire season.

I agree they have to want it, but again I ask want "what"? To win the 'ship? yes. To beat the Celtics? yes. To win this game? of course. But what if i fail the do the necessary little things this moment, like hustle, defend, focus to make a freethrow, chase a loose ball, what will happen? Nothing.

In anycase, we'll just have to agree to disagree. You see it as this game only, I see it is something long time in the making.

Clinton91
05-04-2010, 01:12 AM
We should have gotten Murphy if we wanted a 3 point shooting PF. First of all he's better at three's, and second he is tall enough to actually effect Garnett and Gasol on defense.

Third of all it doesn't matter. We got Jamison and the coaching staff has to find a way to use him more effectively. I seriously would like it if MB had the balls to bench Shaq and Jamison for Z and Andy. This would give us someone who could guard KG effectively from the tip which would stop us from falling behind by 10+ points. This series is the only one I would do this though, lets see if MB has any balls...

Ignatius
05-04-2010, 01:12 AM
We should have gotten Murphy if we wanted a 3 point shooting PF. First of all he's better at three's, and second he is tall enough to actually effect Garnett and Gasol on defense.

I hope you're not serious.

It's a tough defensive assignment for Jamison.....but KG went 8-21....he didn't tourch us.

Jamison is not our problem.

Chris
05-04-2010, 01:14 AM
It's not like he's scoring on jumpshots at one of the lowest rates of his career(and conversely, scoring inside at one of the higher rates of his career) or anything.

Oh wait, that IS what is happening. The idea that Jamison is nothing but a spot up shooter here is a fallacy perpetuated by stupidity.

buh buh buh jamison makes us better than Amare wouldve..

to clarify though, no, jamison is NOT the problem. rofl.

iEchoic
05-04-2010, 01:14 AM
It's not like he's scoring on jumpshots at one of the lowest rates of his career(and conversely, scoring inside at one of the higher rates of his career) or anything.

Oh wait, that IS what is happening. The idea that Jamison is nothing but a spot up shooter here is a fallacy perpetuated by stupidity.

Huh? I'm sort of baffled as to how what you posted applies to what I said. The rate at which he scores doesn't really have anything to do with what I posted.


The last three posts about Jamison(GimmeSomeMo,iEchoic, yourself) are bordering on 1:00 AM ridiculousness out of anger and frustration posts...actually, that's exactly what they are.

1:00AM ridiculousness? I posted a calm opinion, one that is by no means ridiculous, get over yourself. Calling things ridiculous when you disagree with them doesn't help your case. You're really reactionary and it ends up making you look silly (see attacking another poster for complaining last game when he was actually at the game in the previous thread).

Deezus
05-04-2010, 01:17 AM
Murphy has no effect on anyone on defense, much less Garnett and Gasol. Murphy would have a hard time defending Theo Ratliff on the block.


The last three posts about Jamison(GimmeSomeMo,iEchoic, yourself) are bordering on 1:00 AM ridiculousness out of anger and frustration posts...actually, that's exactly what they are.

Yep... thanks for the injection of reality, IBWT. Jamison was the ONLY Cavs starter that shot over 50% tonight. We didn't get him to be a defensive stopper. MB has got to get it in his head that Jamison can't guard KG one-on-one anymore. On top of that, we still aren't using Jamison effectively on offense either. We need less jumpshots and more Iso post-ups and pick and rolls with LBJ and Mo/Delonte for Jamison to be as effective as we want him to.

InBoobieWeTrust
05-04-2010, 01:18 AM
Huh? I'm sort of baffled as to how what you posted applies to what I said. The rate at which he scores doesn't really have anything to do with what I posted.

It's pretty simple actually.

Your assessment is that Jamison isn't being used correctly, and that he's basically just a spot up shooter.

The facts say that ~60% of his scoring(as a Cav) comes from the jump-shot, which is the lowest % since his 6MOTY year in Dallas. The rest comes from inside, which he is doing at a higher rate than his entire career.

So, either Jamison has never been used right in his 12 years in the NBA, or the type of player that he is includes spending a lot of time shooting(and making) jump-shots.....maybe you're just smarter than every coach he;s ever played for and see something that Jamison, all of his coaches/GM's, haven't seen.

Clinton91
05-04-2010, 01:19 AM
Yep... thanks for the injection of reality, IBWT. Jamison was the ONLY Cavs starter that shot over 50% tonight. We didn't get him to be a defensive stopper. MB has got to get it in his head that Jamison can't guard KG one-on-one anymore. On top of that, we still aren't using Jamison effectively on offense either. We need less jumpshots and more Iso post-ups and pick and rolls with LBJ and Mo/Delonte for Jamison to be as effective as we want him to.

He never could...

iEchoic
05-04-2010, 01:20 AM
It's pretty simple actually.

Your assessment is that Jamison isn't being used correctly, and that he's basically just a spot up shooter.

The facts say that ~60% of his scoring(as a Cav) comes from the jump-shot, which is the lowest % since his 6MOTY year in Dallas. The rest comes from inside, which he is doing at a higher rate than his entire career.

My position is that he shoots a much higher percentage on his inside shots on this team (can't speak for previous teams). So yes, it would follow that his outside shots would account for less of his scoring, as he makes them at a lower rate.

Edit: where'd you see those stats? Wouldn't mind having a look.

jvpertz
05-04-2010, 01:22 AM
Jamison on Pierce

Lebron on Rondo

Delonte on Allen

Varajeo and JJ at the 5 and 4. Call it a series.

Mo, Shaq, and Parker off the bench.

InBoobieWeTrust
05-04-2010, 01:23 AM
[QUOTE=InBoobieWeTrust;870822]It's pretty simple actually.

Your assessment is that Jamison isn't being used correctly, and that he's basically just a spot up shooter.

The facts say that ~60% of his scoring(as a Cav) comes from the jump-shot, which is the lowest % since his 6MOTY year in Dallas. The rest comes from inside, which he is doing at a higher rate than his entire career./QUOTE]

My position is that he shoots a much higher percentage on his inside shots on this time. So yes, it would follow that his outside shots would account for less of his scoring, as he makes them at a lower rate.

The stats don't support your position. Jamison has shot in the 64-66% range on inside shots for his entire career and it hasn't gone up much at all here.


I get the numbers from 82games.com

For all the years you can just go to whatever season you which to see, pick the team he was on, click his name from the list, and then click on player stats and you'll see his shooting stats on the left side.

Deezus
05-04-2010, 01:28 AM
Off-topic to what is currently being discussed, but...

I think Andy's relatively poor play (which appears to be a result of continuing back spasms/issues) has a much larger effect on our defense than most realize. We really haven't been able to use him 30-35 minutes a night, as I'd like to, in the playoffs as our defensive spark plug. Man, we really need to get him healthy... He's historically given KG trouble. Something tells me Boston won't be outrebounding us by 11 boards a game if/when Andy can get back to his old self...

Chris
05-04-2010, 01:29 AM
Off-topic to what is currently being discussed, but...

I think Andy's relatively poor play (which appears to be a result of continuing back spasms/issues) has a much larger effect on our defense than most realize. We really haven't been able to use him 30-35 minutes a night, as I'd like to, in the playoffs as our defensive spark plug. Man, we really need to get him healthy...

Too late for that. Playoffs are here. Gotta go with what we got.

cvnpoka
05-04-2010, 01:29 AM
You know, it's tough to chill out, so much rides on this postseason it is not even funny... We just lost home court advantage in this series, and quite frankly, it could have easily been 0-2.. There's just so much at stake, we have to do this........

seems the elephant in the room is if they lose this series lebron is gonzo.

seems reason enough for the fans to be concerned if not in full panic.

Chris
05-04-2010, 01:30 AM
seems the elephant in the room is if they lose this series lebron is gonzo.

seems reason enough for the fans to be concerned if not in full panic.

Exactly.

Funniest part is LeBron was the main problem tonight.

Ignatius
05-04-2010, 01:32 AM
:doh:

InBoobieWeTrust
05-04-2010, 01:32 AM
Yep... thanks for the injection of reality, IBWT. Jamison was the ONLY Cavs starter that shot over 50% tonight. We didn't get him to be a defensive stopper. MB has got to get it in his head that Jamison can't guard KG one-on-one anymore. On top of that, we still aren't using Jamison effectively on offense either. .


Here's another injection of reality. Jamison "not being able to guard KG" is a myth.

In game 1, in isolation post-up situations...Garnett shot 3-9.

In game 2, I don't even think Garnett scored once in an isolation post-up. He bricked quite a few...at least 5-6 misses in isolation post-ups against Jamison. I am throwing out the three lay-ups because they were a direct result of an unnecessary attempt to front him in the post when he wasn't very effective. Fronting him gives him a way bigger advantage than him in the post does.

The fact that we are overreacting to this match-up both as a team(as a coaching staff) and as fans is concerning to me. This isn't Z getting trainwrecked by a 24 year old stud for a point a minute, this is a guy living off of reputation alone and then using passing ability to beat you after you get baited into giving him so much attention. Garnett will not beat us alone in the post, he does not have it in him anymore, he hasn't shown an ability to do it. He's shown the ability to get a decent look, but no ability to convert those looks and its been that way for 18 months now. We need to let him try and beat us on the block, it won't happen. Helping just leads to offensive rebounds or easy cuts/layups. I can't believe we're over-reacting so hard to this guy who literally hasn't even put the ball in the basket 5 times total over two games in an isolation post-up.

It's the equivalent of a team sending a double team at 38 year old Shaq for no reason. It makes no sense.

wremy
05-04-2010, 01:34 AM
You are not alone...KG had anything he wanted...imagine the score if he knee wasnt gone. I also maintain that that matchup is causing us problems all over.....we are now starting to have to double team him which opens this up for all the other players.

Jamison did OK when he playe dhim straight up...whoever thought to front him (prob MB) is a fuckin idiot...besides I can live with 18 out of Garnett.....rondo is the 1 kickin our ass....also why isn't LBJ steppin up to the plate on that?....we seen him shut down Rondo before and keep him outta the paint...why hasn't he just said AP u guard Pierce and I'm gonna shut Rondo down...sometimes I just wonder....because if I was him with his talent that is what I'd do....thats what MJ does and that is what Kobe did vs Westbrook in the last few games of last series vs OKC....Rondo is the head of the Snake and if you cut the head off the Snake...well you know the rest

CavsRules
05-04-2010, 01:36 AM
Are people just looking to blame someone? You can't be seriously saying Jamison was a problem for us in the first two games... Its not even funny.

The Cavs do not have a single play in their playbook for Tawn, it's so obviously when you see LeBron take the ball at the top of the key. The play is just designed for everybody to get out of the way, or stay on the corners and hope James draws all the defenders as possible so he passes it out to you. Jamison needs to get going early and often, and that means giving him the ball in the proper position, which is in the post. Kevin Garnett has size on him, but Jamison is a little quicker considering KG's age and injury history. His shot that he can get off will just cause trouble for Garnett, or anybody Boston throws on him.

Regardless, the whole team is to blame for this one.. Nobody else. If this wakes them up, Cavs in 6 or 7, if not, Celtics in 5.

Czvosec
05-04-2010, 01:37 AM
Jamison on Pierce

Lebron on Rondo

Delonte on Allen

Varajeo and JJ at the 5 and 4. Call it a series.

Mo, Shaq, and Parker off the bench.


Am I the only one who thinks LeBron on Rondo isn't the problem solver everyone else seems to think it is?

I counted numerous times tonight where LeBron was picked, and he had absolutely no idea what to do. He would fight through the screen when the other guy switched, or switch when the other guy thought he was fighting through.

LeBron is a very good defender when he is guarding a player in isolation, but he doesn't seem to be the best guy at guarding the PnR.

On the other hand, Delonte is THE BEST player to guard Allen. Delonte is the ONLY guy on the team who can get around all those screens and stick with Allen. It was amazing, actually, watching him run around, through, and over all those screens when he was on Ray.

cdt
05-04-2010, 01:39 AM
Tonight was a debacle. I can understand the offense being out of whack and shots not falling and etc but defense is all about will, desire, want to, and being tenacious. There was NONE of that out there tonight.

We got lucky as hell in Game 1 that Allen and Pierce missed about 5 combined good looking 3's in a stretch or we'd be going to Boston down 0-2.

I don't feel good, or confident about anything. We've been down double digits 13 the max in Game 1 and 25 the max in Game 2. We have NOT had a lead above double digits in either game. We need to at least come out with defense and hustle and hope that our shots go. Showing up with none of the 3 and we're getting shellacked again like tonight.

LeBron either needs to start playing better and attacking like he did in the 4th quarter of this game that cut the lead from 25 to 10. And what turned the tide in Game 1 or he needs to just show up in a suit if he's not good to go. Because he made pass after pass tonight and no one could turn a single one of them into a productive play. It's like they waited all game long for him to start playing and doing what he does and it just never happened.

Chris
05-04-2010, 01:39 AM
Pierce quoted as saying "I fear we have done nothing but awaken a sleeping giant and fill it with a terrible resolve" as he left the Q...fwiw

cdt
05-04-2010, 01:40 AM
Am I the only one who thinks LeBron on Rondo isn't the problem solver everyone else seems to think it is?

I counted numerous times tonight where LeBron was picked, and he had absolutely no idea what to do. He would fight through the screen when the other guy switched, or switch when the other guy thought he was fighting through.

LeBron is a very good defender when he is guarding a player in isolation, but he doesn't seem to be the best guy at guarding the PnR.

On the other hand, Delonte is THE BEST player to guard Allen. Delonte is the ONLY guy on the team who can get around all those screens and stick with Allen. It was amazing, actually, watching him run around, through, and over all those screens when he was on Ray.

I'm just going by the starters. Obviously I'd love Delonte on Rondo because he's quick enough and a good enough defender to do it but he's off the bench.

However due to Mo not contributing on either end of the floor and being a detriment on defense I'd be in favor for Delonte starting in place of him, but it's not happenin. Delonte is also playing better offensively IMO aside from Mo's 3rd quarter. I mean seriously if you're going to give up 19 assists and around 20 points to Rondo at least tear him up on offense and make him work.

BA_CavsFan
05-04-2010, 01:41 AM
If LeBron spends his time guarding Rondo the whole game, he won't have any energy left for his offense. And with his offense so vitally important yet weak right now because of the elbow, we can't afford to be wasting his energy. Mo just has to step up his game.

johnnycake44022
05-04-2010, 01:41 AM
Jamison did OK when he playe dhim straight up...whoever thought to front him (prob MB) is a fuckin idiot...besides I can live with 18 out of Garnett.....rondo is the 1 kickin our ass....also why isn't LBJ steppin up to the plate on that?....we seen him shut down Rondo before and keep him outta the paint...why hasn't he just said AP u guard Pierce and I'm gonna shut Rondo down...sometimes I just wonder....because if I was him with his talent that is what I'd do....thats what MJ does and that is what Kobe did vs Westbrook in the last few games of last series vs OKC....Rondo is the head of the Snake and if you cut the head off the Snake...well you know the rest

The height/size advantage is glaring to me. Garnett missed alot of chippies/open shots to be honest. This had little to do with Jamison....more his general decline yet he still gets 20 points tonight. If this was not an issue, I dont think the Cavs would double team, which they did at various points. But I agree with your other points....some of those are lack of effort which is correctable. Garnets size advantage is tough for antawn.

Ignatius
05-04-2010, 01:42 AM
Am I the only one who thinks LeBron on Rondo isn't the problem solver everyone else seems to think it is?

I counted numerous times tonight where LeBron was picked, and he had absolutely no idea what to do. He would fight through the screen when the other guy switched, or switch when the other guy thought he was fighting through.

LeBron is a very good defender when he is guarding a player in isolation, but he doesn't seem to be the best guy at guarding the PnR.

On the other hand, Delonte is THE BEST player to guard Allen. Delonte is the ONLY guy on the team who can get around all those screens and stick with Allen. It was amazing, actually, watching him run around, through, and over all those screens when he was on Ray.

Yea, how could you not notice that. Delonte gets around those screens so quickly....he gets low to the ground when turning the corner.

As long as we're contesting shots on Pierce and KG, the only glaring weakness defensively is with Rondo. Either Mo steps up, or LeBron takes him more often - or someone else.

Biw
05-04-2010, 01:43 AM
If I could thank Mar's post 100 times, I would. So sick of this negative bullshit. At what point does this become a self-fulfilling prophecy? Might as well go and root for the Buffalo Bills, Cubs, and Clippers with this mentality.

Think about this: Last year, the Lakers got taken to 7 games by a Houston team that was missing its best player most of the series... They won the title. The year before, the same Boston team we're playing got taken to 7 games in rounds 1 and 2 by vastly under-talented opponents (Atl and our Cavs)... They won the title. If we are the best team, we'll win it all. I still believe we're the best team! The only things that can hold us back are coaching and injuries (we may be seeing some of both right now, unfortunately).

I think that's why some people are worried... I know this team is better than Boston but, with the uncertainties of Lebron's elbow and now Andy suffering with a back injury, I don't think it's out of the question to have some concerns. Andy is huge for this team and this series. He's put up great numbers against the Celtics all year but, it's clear as day that he's not 100% That was evident in the Chicago series after he banged his knee. W&G said himself that Andy is in quite a bit of pain and it's clearly affecting him. Not to mention Mo's overall inconsistent play on both ends of the floor.

I'm hoping this team puts my concerns to rest. We'll see Friday.

mAo_mAo
05-04-2010, 01:44 AM
The only person needed to be given credit is JJ Hickson. He is the one who is aggressive and fighting out there.

cmt30
05-04-2010, 01:44 AM
[QUOTE=cmstophe;870850]Pierce quoted as saying "I fear we have done nothing but awaken a sleeping giant and fill it with a terrible resolve" as he left the Q...fwiw[/QUOTE

Is the sleeping giant awake because it's hungry or is it getting up to take a dump? ;)

Chris
05-04-2010, 01:45 AM
[QUOTE=cmstophe;870850]Pierce quoted as saying "I fear we have done nothing but awaken a sleeping giant and fill it with a terrible resolve" as he left the Q...fwiw[/QUOTE

Is the sleeping giant awake because it's hungry or is it getting up to take a dump? ;)

Either way, we lose...

The Sleeping Giant needs to be awake because it wants to stick its foot up the Big 3's collective assholes

cmt30
05-04-2010, 01:46 AM
Well lets hope their hungry as hell and win this damn thing!

Deezus
05-04-2010, 01:48 AM
Here's another injection of reality. Jamison "not being able to guard KG" is a myth.

In game 1, in isolation post-up situations...Garnett shot 3-9.

In game 2, I don't even think Garnett scored once in an isolation post-up. He bricked quite a few...at least 5-6 misses in isolation post-ups against Jamison. I am throwing out the three lay-ups because they were a direct result of an unnecessary attempt to front him in the post when he wasn't very effective. Fronting him gives him a way bigger advantage than him in the post does.

The fact that we are overreacting to this match-up both as a team(as a coaching staff) and as fans is concerning to me. This isn't Z getting trainwrecked by a 24 year old stud for a point a minute, this is a guy living off of reputation alone and then using passing ability to beat you after you get baited into giving him so much attention. Garnett will not beat us alone in the post, he does not have it in him anymore, he hasn't shown an ability to do it. He's shown the ability to get a decent look, but no ability to convert those looks and its been that way for 18 months now. We need to let him try and beat us on the block, it won't happen. Helping just leads to offensive rebounds or easy cuts/layups. I can't believe we're over-reacting so hard to this guy who literally hasn't even put the ball in the basket 5 times total over two games in an isolation post-up.

It's the equivalent of a team sending a double team at 38 year old Shaq for no reason. It makes no sense.

Touche'. Giving the validity of your stats the benefit of the doubt due to sheer laziness (on my part), maybe I'm reacting to the team's decision to double KG more than I am Antawn's actual ability to guard him. Regardless, here's what I see:

- Antawn allows KG to get WAY too deep of post position. Even if he doesn't score, his deep post position often requires other defenders to help alter his shot, placing the entire rotation out of balance and opening up the potential for weak-side rebounds. Its clear he is outclassed in the strength and size department in this matchup... regardless of the results so far.

- Antawn fronting KG led to 3 easy baskets in the 2nd half (should have been 4). Your decision to exclude this doesn't makes no sense to me. What is done is done, and whether or not you choose to include this in your statistical evaluation, Antawn and the Cavs chose to take this approach, which clearly wasn't effective.

Regardless, the main point I was trying to make is that the Cavs, IMO, are much better suited with JJ, Andy, or even Z guarding KG on D. On Offense, I like Antawn working through pick and rolls with Lebron, Mo, or Delonte and/or iso's where he can use his (relatively) better athleticism to get to the rim for one of his floaters, or a step back J.

EDIT: Responding to some comments above... I'm not, by any means, trying to blame any part of this loss on Antawn. He played pretty darn good tonight, IMO. I'm just venting on glaring adjustments I think we need to make, but haven't.

Ruken
05-04-2010, 01:53 AM
First I feel these next few days off are going to help Lebron and Andy. As someone with constant back problems a few days can make a world of difference.
The big problem is that Lebron is playing tenative and it has the whole team uneasy. I mean he had 24 points tonight but who even noticed? I think everyone else needs to step up and not play so timid. Yes Lebron is the leader but we are a team.

InBoobieWeTrust
05-04-2010, 01:53 AM
Even if he doesn't score, his deep post position often requires other defenders to help alter his shot, placing the entire rotation out of balance and opening up the potential for weak-side rebounds. Its clear he is outclassed in the strength and size department in this matchup... regardless of the results so far.
You're right, my problem is that the over-helping is not necessary because Garnett cannot score at an elite level even with good looks from 12 feet anymore.


- Antawn fronting KG led to 3 easy baskets in the 2nd half (should have been 4). Your decision to exclude this doesn't makes no sense to me. What is done is done, and whether or not you choose to include this in your statistical evaluation, Antawn and the Cavs chose to take this approach, which clearly wasn't effective..

It's an idiotic approach that is yet another overreaction to KG getting to 8-10 feet and shooting a turnaround shot over Jamison. I want them to forget the help and the fronting, I want them to make KG really really hurt us with those shots before you give him all of this attention. He hasn't done it yet and hasn't proven he can even do it anymore. IF he can't hurt you, there's no reason to over-react which is what we are doing.

Pioneer10
05-04-2010, 02:01 AM
Breaking Wind:


• Based on the huge volume of e-mail I've received in the 120 minutes since the end of the game it is clear that plenty of fans are rather flustered by the Celtics' Game 2 dominance.
There are indeed plenty of problems for the Cavs to address and much of the next three days will be spent addressing them it must be assumed.
Before getting into all of that, this needs to be said. The Cavs are in a series, they are not in trouble. That is not to say they will not be in trouble if they continue to give the same general effort they have put forth in the first two games.
Last season, when the Cavs were facing a 1-1 tie agains the Orlando Magic, I was sounding the warning bells. It was mostly because the Cavs had played pretty well and were barely keeping their heads above water.
The Cavs aren't playing well, at all, so far in this series. They certainly didn't play like a home team in the first two games and also didn't play like the favorite that they are.
The Celtics, meanwhile, have played wonderfully for about six of the eight quarters. Rajon Rondo just had one of the best playoff games of his career. He's not going away anytime soon, but he just tied the all-time record for assists in Celtics playoff history. Sort of like Joakim Noah having a 20/20 game.
It is not even worth mentioning Rasheed Wallace. If he plays this way the rest of the way, the Celtics will probably win the title. He had a great game and after six duds in the playoffs he was certainly due.
This stat alone sums up what happened in this game: The Celtics had seven offensive rebounds...and 21 second-chance points. That is one of those 1-in-500 games stats that is part luck, part dominance and part unexplainable. But this stuff happens in playoff series, just look at some of Drew Gooden's career playoff games. Or, perhaps the finest example known to Cavs fans, Daniel Gibson scoring 31 points on just nine shots in Game 6 of the 2007 Eastern Conference Finals.
The Cavs have a lot to clean up but so many of their errors -- focus, intensity, aggression, preparation -- are fixable. It is not like they are trying to figure out how to stop Dwight Howard and the Hedo Turkoglu/Rashard Lewis screen roll. Well, not yet, at least.
There may not be an excuse for their general play, but excuses don't matter at this time of the year anyway. Simply execute.
http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/05/cleveland_cavaliers_vs_boston_3.html

Coyote
05-04-2010, 02:11 AM
Rare to see a game where no one does anything. Well, not "no one", but even James and Jamison had some pretty glaring problems. (When Lebron took that 3 in the 4th, with maybe 3 minutes left, I knew it wasn't going in and that we were truly done. Celtics regained their composure after that point. Stupid decision. Jamison's free throws are killing us.) If you want to tell me JJ was great on offense, fine, but he sucked defensively. Delonte, AV, Moon were just there. Parker, meh. Mo...Jeebus. Shaq, oh Cripes. Brown seemed unable to motivate a team down by 20+ in a Game 2 at home.

Even our announcer (Cedric is it?) sounded like he had a cold or something.

Point is, while I was furious watching the Cavs sleepwalk, just about everything that could go wrong went wrong for us. It's hard to imagine being this bad again in this series. I'll take this over a close game that came down to a few bad possessions, because there aren't any excuses for anyone: everyone sucked. Fix it or go home.

shaggyZ
05-04-2010, 05:01 AM
I just hope that the Cavs come out in game 3 and try to slow the game down and establish Shaq in the low post with 4 or 5 straight isolation post ups which will end up with 4 or 5 missed 3 feet shots and get them in a hole early and get no one in rhythm and have them playing catch up all game. Oh yeah and also bring that playoff intensity when it's about halfway through the 4th. My keys to a win.

Aussie
05-04-2010, 06:07 AM
One question, don't know if it's been answered, or asked.

I think in the 3rd when that, whatever it was, was thrown on the court, why were some of the players, over at the Celtic's bench? Antawn was laughing what looked like an assistant coach. Why couldn't someone show some leadership and huddle the team up, instead of being lazy and being friendly to the team who was embarrasing you on the court?

LebonJaymes
05-04-2010, 06:37 AM
Fear the Leprechaun!!!

bob2the2nd
05-04-2010, 06:48 AM
Breaking Wind:
This stat alone sums up what happened in this game: The Celtics had seven offensive rebounds...and 21 second-chance points.
http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/05/cleveland_cavaliers_vs_boston_3.html

how the HELL does that even happen? I dont mean like "wow the cavs played bad how did they allow that" well I mean I do. But really im asking "unless the celtics got 3 points every time they got an offensive rebound (and i dont think they did) how did they manage to get 21 second chance points?" Is there a way to record second chance points without missing a shot and getting a rebound?

wuck
05-04-2010, 07:10 AM
how the HELL does that even happen? I dont mean like "wow the cavs played bad how did they allow that" well I mean I do. But really im asking "unless the celtics got 3 points every time they got an offensive rebound (and i dont think they did) how did they manage to get 21 second chance points?" Is there a way to record second chance points without missing a shot and getting a rebound?

Counting from the ESPN play-by-play the Celtics had 18 second-chance points (it's possible they actually had 21 and ESPN blew it). But they didn't score 3 points every possession.

Instead, 7 offensive rebounds only counts the times when the Celtics grabbed the rebound. It doesn't count the "team rebounds" where Boston got the ball because the Cavs attempted to grab a rebound, hit the ball, and the ball landed out of bounds. Also doesn't count when a ball bounces off the rim, goes out of bounds, and the ball is awarded to the defending team (or the offensive team if the ball was tipped). In Game 2, the Celtcs were credited for 8 team rebounds (on the offensive and defensive side). So, they got the ball back a handful more times on both sides of the court. They scored 6 of their 2nd-chance points off of various offensive "team rebounds".

Cavs grabbed 6 offensive rebounds (not as much as usual) and were credited for 12 team rebounds (on offense + defense).

So, there are two larger problems here:

1) The Cavs got outrebounded on both ends. 43-32 total. With team rebounds, the figure is 51-44.
2) The Cavs could not stop the Celtics on either first-chance or second-chance points. Giving up a bunch of 2nd-chance points just made it worse.

It's not as if the Celtics were super-efficient and scored 21 points on only 7 possessions, which is what Windhorst's stats suggest. Instead, they got more possessions and were efficient at converting the extra opportunities. More a sign of general rebounding and defensive problems than a sign of just 7 specific possessions that went wrong.

cav jvl
05-04-2010, 07:23 AM
This was not about adjustments. I am not defending Brown on this....I think we need to try to figure out the Jamison/KG matchup but throwing Jawad Williams or Boobie Gibson in tonight would have done nothing. Teams shorten/limit their rotations in the playoffs for a reason.

A big problem as i saw it was that NOBODY could hit a shot which completely shrunk the court. Obviously LBJ had no shot and they needed somebody to hit outside shots. In game one Mo started hitting his shot which opened things up. If he is not hitting then MB needs to see if someone on the bench can, especially with the guys we have who have proven track records of success in the playoffs. As much as i like Mo, his playoff history is poor whereas Boobie, Z, have had success in the playoffs and can hit shots. Powe will always bring effort and has had playoff experience with Boston. I think this is the type of series we got him for. Agreed that the players need to bring it, but we also need to adjust matchups quickly....with our roster there just is no reason to be blown out at home in the playoffs.

LyXo
05-04-2010, 07:31 AM
The only thing I can think of, after watchin LBJ's presser...

We may be toying with them. We may not want to peak too early. We may want to keep things spread, keep the media guessing, and bring it when we want.

John Krolik put together this article a week or so back which sums up something along these lines. Very good read.

http://www.cavstheblog.com/?p=2266

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWQlbOkKCD0

MDLT
05-04-2010, 07:38 AM
The only thing I can think of, after watchin LBJ's presser...

We may be toying with them. We may not want to peak too early. We may want to keep things spread, keep the media guessing, and bring it when we want.

John Krolik put together this article a week or so back which sums up something along these lines. Very good read.

http://www.cavstheblog.com/?p=2266

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWQlbOkKCD0

Well, I think that's a fantasy. This team never looked ready for the playoffs. I don't know if it was the time off or the injuries mounting up that hurt on-court chemistry, but they look extremely flat. Couple that with LeBron's elbow and AV's back and you have a recipe for disaster going forward.

You don't lose homecourt advantage just to toy with another team. Or if you do, you're not serious about winning a title.

SuperSurge
05-04-2010, 07:42 AM
Yea, how could you not notice that. Delonte gets around those screens so quickly....he gets low to the ground when turning the corner.

As long as we're contesting shots on Pierce and KG, the only glaring weakness defensively is with Rondo. Either Mo steps up, or LeBron takes him more often - or someone else.

I don't get how you get that badly burned when your playing so far off him, he's at the 3pt line and you have your heels on the free throw line... We gave Rondo wide open three looks AND drives to the hoop... Shouldn't we be able to stop one of those?

It's frustrating, but still not as bad as the lack of passion, lack of effort, and the absolutley NO emotion shown during the game... I don't get it. Where's the sideline dancing, goosey throwin, confident team we are used to seeing? No, now it looks so serious that no one is enjoying any of it, starting with the Chicago series...

This is probably the worst effort I can remember seeing from any of my teams in the playoffs... At least Mesa was trying... Byner cried... Oh well... Maybe I care too much.... C'mon Friday....

MikeyTuna
05-04-2010, 09:11 AM
http://media.supereco.com/media/2009/02/04/320w/walter-sobchak.jpg

Green Lantern
05-04-2010, 09:23 AM
My oh my.. One game in a 7 game series and people just start to completely freak out! Understand it is not that bad! We obviously played an extremely lazy game today! We have coaches, they will make adjustments, and we will get a nice rest for game 3. We have won in the Garden once this year and we almost won twice! LeBron will get his treatment for the elbow and we will be completelyyyyy fine. Like I already said, and I can't reiterate this enough. IT'S A 7 GAME SERIESSSSS! We have 5 more left.. So just please chill out and understand that we still have time to win this series.. Jeez..

I'm not speaking for anyone but myself..but to accept a performance like that is weak..I can deal with a loss..but a loss where the Cavs fought and took the L..not like what I saw last night..where they pretty gave NO EFFORT in the third and let Boston overwhelm them..then try a comeback with 4 minutes to go..that effort should have been there coming out of the half..no urgency,no energy,no effort..no nothing..they were not fired up even though they knew Boston was coming strong at him..
I call it as I see it ,they packed it in ,after halftime..why they came out flat I don't know..why did they come out flat two years ago like this???
Mo, no production,Andy no production,Shaq -missing 3-5ft shots..nothing..no defense,..nothing..

Noonan
05-04-2010, 09:26 AM
There's plenty of examples of NBA champs taking a bad loss at home:


Game 1 of the 2008 Western Conference Semi-Finals: Houston Rockets 100 @ Los Angeles Lakers 92. Lakers won series in 7.

Game 1 of the 2006 Eastern Conference Semi-Finals: New Jersey Nets 100 @ Miami Heat 88. Heat won series in 5.

Game 5 of the 2003 Western Conference Finals: Dallas Mavericks 103 @ San Antonio Spurs 91. Spurs won series in 6.

Game 3 of the 2002 Western Conference Finals: Sacramento Kings 103 @ Los Angeles Lakers 90. Lakers won series in 7.

Game 2 of the 2000 Western Conference Finals: Portland Trail Blazers 106 @ Los Angeles Lakers 77. Lakers won series in 7.

Game 2 of the 1992 Eastern Conference Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers 107 @ Chicago Bulls 81. Bulls won series in 6.


Let's take a deep breath.

Silky Smooth
05-04-2010, 09:36 AM
I just watched the 1st half and we were playing solid basketball. Nobody on the Celtics seemed to go off in any stretch. That second half just murdered us. Lebron wasnt himself, Mo just kept shooting, his defense was just bad, our shooters didnt show up and our defense as a whole was not there. Yea it sucks that we lost a home game but there is really nothing there to be overly worried about. As long as the passion to play great defense and execute on offense shows up i see us sweeping the next 3 games.

rjchpd
05-04-2010, 10:22 AM
It's amazing to see you guys throw the same players you thought were good under the bus. Someone needs to bring up the threads from games one and three of the first round series against the bulls. Yes they got the ish kicked out of them, forget it and move on. Every champion has had to face adversity at some point during their title run. They were all knocked down at some point. It's the response that matters.

So you guys can bicker, panic, and do whatever you want. I'm gonna wait patiently to see the response.

rjchpd
05-04-2010, 10:23 AM
Should be game five of the bulls series.

Sea
05-04-2010, 10:35 AM
Both the 1998 and 1997 (greatest team in NBA history) lost Game 2 of the Conference Semi Finals @ Home, went on to win series. Hopefully the Cavs can do that same

InBoobieWeTrust
05-04-2010, 11:54 AM
The height/size advantage is glaring to me. Garnett missed alot of chippies/open shots to be honest. This had little to do with Jamison....more his general decline yet he still gets 20 points tonight. If this was not an issue, I dont think the Cavs would double team, which they did at various points. But I agree with your other points....some of those are lack of effort which is correctable. Garnets size advantage is tough for antawn.

The height and size advantage is there. Just like Shaq has a height and size advantage against basically every Center in the league. It just doesn't really matter.

The Cavs are over-reacting top it., when in reality...without double teams and without fronting, in isolation post-ups, Garnett is not converting shots. You can harp on how easy those shots look, but he is not converting them. Make him convert them before you destroy your defensive scheme to stop it. I don't think he can consistently hurt us with it anymore. I really don't.

I cheer every time someone fronts Shaq. We usually get a lay-up. I cheer every time someone doubles him for no reason. When in reality, he can't consistently beat people on the block. Sometimes he can, but not consistently.

Magic Brownies
05-04-2010, 11:57 AM
this IS a big deal. how are we supposed to get a game in boston when we get ran off our own court, this wasnt a timely bucket at the end of a few balls didnt bounce our way... we got trounced. we looked like clowns. and i wanted to say something yesterday but i didnt, im so sick of all these fans that are all high and mighty acting like the trophy is ours with your "how much do you think finals tickets cost?" and "whats the finals schedule like?" it really makes me sick, we should know of all fans that if theres a way to lose something, cleveland will figure it out.


http://www.costaricapages.com/panama/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/cart-before-horse-2.jpg

NarlCavs
05-04-2010, 03:59 PM
The height and size advantage is there. Just like Shaq has a height and size advantage against basically every Center in the league. It just doesn't really matter.

The Cavs are over-reacting top it., when in reality...without double teams and without fronting, in isolation post-ups, Garnett is not converting shots. You can harp on how easy those shots look, but he is not converting them. Make him convert them before you destroy your defensive scheme to stop it. I don't think he can consistently hurt us with it anymore. I really don't.

I cheer every time someone fronts Shaq. We usually get a lay-up. I cheer every time someone doubles him for no reason. When in reality, he can't consistently beat people on the block. Sometimes he can, but not consistently.

Jamison fronting Garnett makes zero sense and I hope we've seen the last of it. Cavs and Jamison were burned by that strategy.
Jamison isn't a great defensive player and this isn't the best match up for him but I do think this match up can at least be evened out.

Jamison has only 17 FG attempts in 72 minutes in the first 2 games of this series. The 6 attempts he got in game 1 made no sense. You have to make Garnett work at the defensive end. Jamison is an offensive weapon who can score well off movement and should be in motion at the offensive end. Having him spot up or mostly stand in one area only helps Garnett.
Cavs have a proven versatile offensive weapon in Jamison. Why not use him fully to your advantage?

InBoobieWeTrust
05-04-2010, 04:02 PM
Jamison fronting Garnett makes zero sense and I hope we've seen the last of it. Cavs and Jamison were burned by that strategy.
Jamison isn't a great defensive player and this isn't the best match up for him but I do think this match up can at least be evened out.

Jamison has only 17 FG attempts in 72 minutes in the first 2 games of this series. The 6 attempts he got in game 1 made no sense. You have to make Garnett work at the defensive end. Jamison is an offensive weapon who can score well off movement and should be in motion at the offensive end. Having him spot up or mostly stand in one area only helps Garnett.
Cavs have a proven versatile offensive weapon in Jamison. Why not use him fully to your advantage?

I don't understand it either. Jamison got most of his shots in the first half. Then in the second half we spent probably 5 minutes of offense watching Shaq get the ball and throw up ugly hook shots or commit offensive fouls.

IWantAKouki
05-04-2010, 04:09 PM
I don't understand it either. Jamison got most of his shots in the first half. Then in the second half we spent probably 5 minutes of offense watching Shaq get the ball and throw up ugly hook shots or commit offensive fouls.

Unfortunately, this is a pattern because WE REALLY DO LACK OFFENSIVE COACHING PROWRESS.

There's no reason that this team should be struggling to score. None. We have three of the best three point shooters in the league. We have a versatile guy who has maintained a 19 ppg scoring average over a long career. We have LeBron Freakin James. And Shaq I guess.

Our offensive coaching is so bad that we just simply ignore Jamison for 2/3 of the game. He gets 12 points in the span of a few minutes, then he's reduced to a spot up shooter the rest of the game. Been like that since he's got here and it pisses me off. Boston is getting any shot they want, and we are reduced to coming down the floor and taking turns running isolation plays.

Dr. Gymbo
05-04-2010, 04:10 PM
I would be all for strengthening our defensive lineup while simultaneously going more to Antawn. I'd be giving more minutes to Delonte, Moon, and Hickson. We've drawn bad matchups at the PG and C positions these first two rounds. It's been hammered to death, but the small ball lineup needs to go forward. We need more effort on the glass and I think Moon and Hickson give you that. I'd also like to see an alternating tandem of LeBron and Moon on Rondo.

Of course I'm concerned about LeBron, but Andy being questionable now too has me worried. He's so good at irritating KG and other Boston front line players.

PG: LeBron James
SG: Jamario Moon
SF: Antawn Jamison
PF: J.J. Hickson
C: Anderson Varejao

holonett242
05-04-2010, 05:04 PM
start JJ. sit shaq. he will be useful against orlando if we're lucky enough to play them. run this old slow boston club into the ground. no more egos. no more fucking around. make them play to our tempo. they will be gassed by the end of the first half. this team needs shaken up. if that means players need to sit than so be it. we win or we go home.

BDM #2
05-05-2010, 07:26 AM
The majority of people seem to be in lock-down crisis mode after one playoff loss. I actually live in downtown Cleveland and yesterday it seemed like the world had ended. Don't get me wrong I am as critical a Cavs fan as they come but to panic in a series that's tied at 1-1 isnt necessary.

People tend to forget that this is the NBA playoffs and you can't expect to win every game. Bosotn is a formidable opponent and you can't expect them to just role over. In the 2007 they went 7 games with both the Hawks and Cavaliers. I mean the Lakers last year went 7 with a hardworking scrappy Houston team.

My point being from an optomistic view is that the Boston Celtics just poked the bear, they woke a sleeping giant, they lit a fire under our ass. Nothing in life that is worth high value is ever easy to achieve and that includes the Larry O'Brien trophy.

I think the Cavaliers will without a doubt bounce back and take control of this series. LeBron as laid-back and complacent as he was on Monday will not let this team lose.

Again......No Worries.......

demondeacs13
05-05-2010, 12:48 PM
The majority of people seem to be in lock-down crisis mode after one playoff loss. I actually live in downtown Cleveland and yesterday it seemed like the world had ended. Don't get me wrong I am as critical a Cavs fan as they come but to panic in a series that's tied at 1-1 isnt necessary.

People tend to forget that this is the NBA playoffs and you can't expect to win every game. Bosotn is a formidable opponent and you can't expect them to just role over. In the 2007 they went 7 games with both the Hawks and Cavaliers. I mean the Lakers last year went 7 with a hardworking scrappy Houston team.

My point being from an optomistic view is that the Boston Celtics just poked the bear, they woke a sleeping giant, they lit a fire under our ass. Nothing in life that is worth high value is ever easy to achieve and that includes the Larry O'Brien trophy.

I think the Cavaliers will without a doubt bounce back and take control of this series. LeBron as laid-back and complacent as he was on Monday will not let this team lose.

Again......No Worries.......

Well said. I'm right there with you. I really hope that we see a ferocious Cavs squad come Friday. If getting spanked by a hated Boston team at home isn't enough motivation to come out with a vengeance in game 3 then we might as well pack it up for the summer right now.

theSTEREO.
05-05-2010, 12:54 PM
Here's the official breakdown of this situation.

4 Days off following an embarrassing loss:

Best possible situation for Cavs players and coaches

Worst possible situation for Cavs fans

Think that sums it up pretty well, no? :chuckles:

BigErieCavsFan
05-05-2010, 12:57 PM
Worst possible situation for Cavs fans


Yea, this sucks and Friday is still SO far away...

wremy
05-05-2010, 04:24 PM
I think the fans are more pissed off at the team's effort than they are worried....If they pick up their effort to the maximum they will beat Boston 3 games in a row....if not and they continue to play like they have for the last 6 weeks then they will probably lose....and us as fans at that point in time will have to decide if it is even worth gettin upset over a team that doesn't care and a coach that obviously couldn't get through to his players

Lets hope its the first part and we are heading for a showdown with Orlando in 10 days

Heej
05-05-2010, 04:30 PM
The majority of people seem to be in lock-down crisis mode after one playoff loss. I actually live in downtown Cleveland and yesterday it seemed like the world had ended. Don't get me wrong I am as critical a Cavs fan as they come but to panic in a series that's tied at 1-1 isnt necessary.

People tend to forget that this is the NBA playoffs and you can't expect to win every game. Bosotn is a formidable opponent and you can't expect them to just role over. In the 2007 they went 7 games with both the Hawks and Cavaliers. I mean the Lakers last year went 7 with a hardworking scrappy Houston team.

My point being from an optomistic view is that the Boston Celtics just poked the bear, they woke a sleeping giant, they lit a fire under our ass. Nothing in life that is worth high value is ever easy to achieve and that includes the Larry O'Brien trophy.

I think the Cavaliers will without a doubt bounce back and take control of this series. LeBron as laid-back and complacent as he was on Monday will not let this team lose.

Again......No Worries.......

The only reason people are overreacting is because none of those teams got blown out by 18 points (or losing by 25 points at any point in the game) on their own floor. People were just disturbed at the utter lack of effort in Game 2, and I really can't blame them too much.

The Human Q-Tip
05-05-2010, 05:12 PM
The only reason people are overreacting is because none of those teams got blown out by 18 points (or losing by 25 points at any point in the game) on their own floor. People were just disturbed at the utter lack of effort in Game 2, and I really can't blame them too much.

I don't see a lot of overreacting. Anyone who isn't seriously concerned hasn't been watching.
The "wake-up call" card already was played after the lackluster performance in Game One, and I'm not quite sure why we're supposed to have confidence that playing it again will lead to a different result.

If there was no possible logical explanation for laying that egg, I'd actually feel a bit better about it. Just a night when we're cold, they're hot, the biorhythms were wrong, whatever. We'll get them next time. The concern is that there are some potential explanations that don't bode well. Specifically, injuries to Andy -- who has not played well the entire playoffs --and LBJ.

theSTEREO.
05-05-2010, 05:32 PM
The only reason people are overreacting is because none of those teams got blown out by 18 points (or losing by 25 points at any point in the game) on their own floor. People were just disturbed at the utter lack of effort in Game 2, and I really can't blame them too much.

I don't see a lot of overreacting. Anyone who isn't seriously concerned hasn't been watching.
The "wake-up call" card already was played after the lackluster performance in Game One, and I'm not quite sure why we're supposed to have confidence that playing it again will lead to a different result.

If there was no possible logical explanation for laying that egg, I'd actually feel a bit better about it. Just a night when we're cold, they're hot, the biorhythms were wrong, whatever. We'll get them next time. The concern is that there are some potential explanations that don't bode well. Specifically, injuries to Andy -- who has not played well the entire playoffs --and LBJ.

I don't get your post... Why do you say "the reason people are overreacting is such & such", and then say "I don't see overreacting".

:dunno:

DG's wallet
05-05-2010, 05:58 PM
I don't get your post... Why do you say "the reason people are overreacting is such & such", and then say "I don't see overreacting".

:dunno:

Look 1 post above that my friend:)

He quoted another post in itallics

theSTEREO.
05-05-2010, 06:14 PM
That's weird. Should use the quote button. That's why we have one...

Clinton91
05-05-2010, 07:41 PM
That's weird. Should use the quote button. That's why we have one...


Maybe he's Italian...:chuckles:

Wulfgar1224
05-05-2010, 08:02 PM
The majority of people seem to be in lock-down crisis mode after one playoff loss. I actually live in downtown Cleveland and yesterday it seemed like the world had ended. Don't get me wrong I am as critical a Cavs fan as they come but to panic in a series that's tied at 1-1 isnt necessary.

People tend to forget that this is the NBA playoffs and you can't expect to win every game. Bosotn is a formidable opponent and you can't expect them to just role over. In the 2007 they went 7 games with both the Hawks and Cavaliers. I mean the Lakers last year went 7 with a hardworking scrappy Houston team.

My point being from an optomistic view is that the Boston Celtics just poked the bear, they woke a sleeping giant, they lit a fire under our ass. Nothing in life that is worth high value is ever easy to achieve and that includes the Larry O'Brien trophy.

I think the Cavaliers will without a doubt bounce back and take control of this series. LeBron as laid-back and complacent as he was on Monday will not let this team lose.

Again......No Worries.......

The concern that I have is that it hasn't been just one game. The Cavs haven't been the same team since the playoffs started. They struggled against the Bulls. Game 4 was the only game that I thought showed any intensity or urgency. You say that the Celtics lit a fire under the Cavs. Well, fine. But, why did it take a humiliating loss to do that? I'm just not seeing the hunger from the Cavs. You'd think that they'd won the last 10 NBA titles with the complacency that they've shown. The Cavs have a better team and should still win this series. But, IMO, they needlessly gave Boston confidence heading back home.

Mars
05-05-2010, 09:12 PM
Simply put, this amounts to a basic championship test for the Cavs. It's a hurdle of adversity the bulk of championship teams have had to get over at some point during a run to the title. Most recently it was last season's Lakers, but a more striking example would be the 1991-92 Bulls.

During the semi-finals, the Bulls lost Game 1 at home to the Knicks by 5 pts. They evened the series in Game 2, then immediately regained home-court by winning Game 3 at New York by 8 pts, going on to win that series in seven.

Next round, in the conference finals vs the Cavs, the Bulls lost Game 2 at home by "26 pts". Heading to Cleveland tied 1-1, they proceeded to win Game 3 by 9 pts, seized back home-court, and closed out the series in six.

In the Finals they lost Game 1 at home to the Blazers in OT by 11 pts. They went to Portland tied 1-1, reclaimed home-court in Game 3 with a 10 pt victory, and won the series in six.

When faced with having home court stolen from them in three consecutive series, the Bulls continually dug in and immediately reestablished order at the first opportunity. The Cavs simply need to prove they have a champion's constitution, break back against Boston in Game 3, and reestablish order.

demondeacs13
05-05-2010, 10:19 PM
Simply put, this amounts to a basic championship test for the Cavs. It's a hurdle of adversity the bulk of championship teams have had to get over at some point during a run to the title. Most recently it was last season's Lakers, but a more striking example would be the 1991-92 Bulls.

During the semi-finals, the Bulls lost Game 1 at home to the Knicks by 5 pts. They evened the series in Game 2, then immediately regained home-court by winning Game 3 at New York by 8 pts, going on to win that series in seven.

Next round, in the conference finals vs the Cavs, the Bulls lost Game 2 at home by "26 pts". Heading to Cleveland tied 1-1, they proceeded to win Game 3 by 9 pts, seized back home-court, and closed out the series in six.

In the Finals they lost Game 1 at home to the Blazers in OT by 11 pts. They went to Portland tied 1-1, reclaimed home-court in Game 3 with a 10 pt victory, and won the series in six.

When faced with having home court stolen from them in three consecutive series, the Bulls continually dug in and immediately reestablished order at the first opportunity. The Cavs simply need to prove they have a champion's constitution, break back against Boston in Game 3, and reestablish order.

Well said.

Czvosec
05-06-2010, 12:09 AM
Simply put, this amounts to a basic championship test for the Cavs. It's a hurdle of adversity the bulk of championship teams have had to get over at some point during a run to the title. Most recently it was last season's Lakers, but a more striking example would be the 1991-92 Bulls.

During the semi-finals, the Bulls lost Game 1 at home to the Knicks by 5 pts. They evened the series in Game 2, then immediately regained home-court by winning Game 3 at New York by 8 pts, going on to win that series in seven.

Next round, in the conference finals vs the Cavs, the Bulls lost Game 2 at home by "26 pts". Heading to Cleveland tied 1-1, they proceeded to win Game 3 by 9 pts, seized back home-court, and closed out the series in six.

In the Finals they lost Game 1 at home to the Blazers in OT by 11 pts. They went to Portland tied 1-1, reclaimed home-court in Game 3 with a 10 pt victory, and won the series in six.

When faced with having home court stolen from them in three consecutive series, the Bulls continually dug in and immediately reestablished order at the first opportunity. The Cavs simply need to prove they have a champion's constitution, break back against Boston in Game 3, and reestablish order.


There are two MONUMENTAL differences between those Bulls and these Cavs.

First, and foremost, that Bulls team had done it before. They had won the previous year. They knew what it took. They had the knowledge of winning, and they knew they could win anywhere, at any time, against any team.

Secondly, that team also had Michael Jordan. Im convinced you would have to cut off both of Jordan's arms to get him off the court because he would find a way to destroy you with one.

What we will find out in this postseason is if LeBron has the ability to play through pain. All of the greats have had to do it. If LeBron wants to be considered one of the best of all time, he has to grit his teeth and play.

Mars
05-06-2010, 01:50 PM
There are two MONUMENTAL differences between those Bulls and these Cavs.

First, and foremost, that Bulls team had done it before. They had won the previous year. They knew what it took. They had the knowledge of winning, and they knew they could win anywhere, at any time, against any team.
While it's true the Bulls had won before I think you missed my larger point, which was that most teams that have gone on to win a title had to deal with losing home court advantage at some point during their run. Whether they had previous championship success or not is secondary, particularly when so many notable teams never had previous championship experience yet managed to win titles after losing HCA (08-09 Lakers, 07-08 Celtics, 99-00 Lakers, 98-99 Spurs, 93-94 Rockets, 80-81 Celtics, 79-80 Lakers)

In the case of the Bulls, that team had absolutely "zero" experience winning the title before they actually accomplished the feat for the first time in 1990-91. They crossed the "zero experience in winning the title" hurdle by actually winning the title. During that first run they lost a total of two games, never lost HCA, never were behind in a series, and were only tied during a series once (after Game 2 of the Finals vs the Lakers).

As a result, the Bulls title defense in 1991-92 presented uncharted territory for them in terms of dealing with the adversity of losing HCA in the playoffs; for the simple fact that it had never happened to them before. All their knowledge of winning the title the previous season wouldn't have prepared them for that scenario. Losing HCA was an unknown quantity to them. They were totally unproven in that particular arena and had to prove they could get over that specific hurdle. When all was said and done, they made it overwhelming clear they were up to the challenge.



Secondly, that team also had Michael Jordan. Im convinced you would have to cut off both of Jordan's arms to get him off the court because he would find a way to destroy you with one.
The Bulls also had Jordan the previous six seasons of his career when they repeatedly fell short. For six straight seasons, he didn't win anything. Even with both of his arms in tact and fully operational he never managed to destroy anyone... until he finally did; from season seven onwards.



What we will find out in this postseason is if LeBron has the ability to play through pain. All of the greats have had to do it. If LeBron wants to be considered one of the best of all time, he has to grit his teeth and play.
That we can agree on.

Czvosec
05-06-2010, 02:14 PM
After sleeping on it again, does anyone else like where this team is? Obviously, we'd all love to be up 2-0, but maybe 1-1 isn't so bad.

All of a sudden, people are looking at the Celtics as a legit threat to win this series. Going into this series, I don't think anyone outside of Celtics fans were picking the Celts. Now a bunch of people are saying that Boston can, and will, win this series.

That means the Cavs are the underdog. One win in Boston, and all of a sudden all the pressure goes back onto the Celts. Win game 3, and game 4 becomes HUGE for them. Win both, and, well, the Cavs are in great position.

Cheer up everyone. I've suddenly got a good feeling about these next two games.

Clinton91
05-06-2010, 02:19 PM
After sleeping on it again, does anyone else like where this team is? Obviously, we'd all love to be up 2-0, but maybe 1-1 isn't so bad.

All of a sudden, people are looking at the Celtics as a legit threat to win this series. Going into this series, I don't think anyone outside of Celtics fans were picking the Celts. Now a bunch of people are saying that Boston can, and will, win this series.

That means the Cavs are the underdog. One win in Boston, and all of a sudden all the pressure goes back onto the Celts. Win game 3, and game 4 becomes HUGE for them. Win both, and, well, the Cavs are in great position.

Cheer up everyone. I've suddenly got a good feeling about these next two games.

One win in Boston and all of those people who jumped on the Celtics bandwagon will jump off and pick the Cavs to win the series.....the media is a bunch of flip floppers...

mattfs5
05-06-2010, 03:19 PM
After sleeping on it again, does anyone else like where this team is? Obviously, we'd all love to be up 2-0, but maybe 1-1 isn't so bad.


1-1 now is great... if we win game 3.

Mars
05-07-2010, 11:15 PM
Everybody Be Cool...

http://cdn1.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/043/047/original/3385530928_c640c91fb0_o.jpg?1268430735

Amherstcavsfan
05-07-2010, 11:18 PM
I still stand by what I say. Glad the team played with heart, but they cannot have lapses like they did in game 2.