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View Full Version : LeBron: No Different Than MJ and/or Kobe



sgm405
05-15-2010, 09:03 PM
Michael Jordan was/is a prick. He had/has a huge ego. He chased a head coach out of town. He was involved in off court issues (gambling/affairs with other women). He - the greatest basketball player of all time - took several years to win an NBA Title (and was older when it happened).

Kobe Bryant was/is a prick. Coming out of high school, he said he'd only play for one team. He has made trade demands, flirted with other teams (Clippers) about going there, and has chased a coach out of town. In 2004, Phil Jackson said Bryant was (at the time) "uncoachable". He has had off court troubles as well - his well-known rape allegations and proven adultery.

Jordan and Bryant eventually matured (somewhat), although they always have been and always will be egotistical, self-centered pricks. But they both were/are once in a lifetime basketball players. They both have won multiple titles for their cities. Their fans know they are self-centered pricks, and they don't care...they win, and that's all that matters.

We in Cleveland seem to want selfless, humble choir boys. And that's OK. But if you have a guy who's as good as LeBron James (he will be one of the best of all time), you don't let him go because he's got a big ego or because he's self centered. Seriously folks...you guys are just now thinking this about him? The guy with "The Chosen One" tattoo?

You don't have to like LeBron James the person. But you're being short-sighted if you don't still LOVE LeBron James the basketball player. He has a huge ego. He is self-centered. He is still immature. But he's the most talented basketball player on the planet. Ask LA if they care that Kobe's an egotistical prick. Ask Chicago if they care that Jordan's a self-centered jerk. I'm guessing they'd both say no.

With LeBron, we are a championship contender every year. Without him, we'd be lucky to stay over .500. I know many of you are doing this whole "reject-him-before-he-rejects-us" thing. But those saying they don't want LeBron are fooling themselves. Those saying we don't need LeBron are in denial.

He'll grow up as he gets older, and will get even better as a basketball player. He is our best chance at a title in Cleveland, and we absolutely have to keep him as a Cavalier. He's kind of an ass, but he's our ass...and we need to find a way to keep it that way.

DougHeil
05-15-2010, 09:08 PM
I'll love him if he stays. I'll hate him with passion if he leaves like this... a quitter and a loser.

Absinthe
05-15-2010, 09:14 PM
Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant have almost a sociopathic need to win. It's not a want, it's a need. Jordan was an infamous dick toward his teammates and he would belittle them or embarrass them just to prove his point. Even after the Bulls got Pippen Jordan didn't let up. Bryant is just a prima donna pussy of a player. I lost any respect I had for him when he threatened to leave LA and when he threw all of his teammates under the bus. I also believe that he'll shoot the Lakers out of games if it means he gets his precious points. Michael Jordan made his teammates better, but Kobe has never done that. He couldn't lead his team anywhere and the only titles he has won is when he played with players like Gasol and Shaq. When he was asked to lead the Kwame Brown team he quit on his team and acted like a total bitch in the off season. So no, Kobe is no Jordan. Not in skill and not in attitude.

But James needs to be more of a dick. His teammates shouldn't necessarily fear him, but they should definitely feel like they have to perform well or face his criticism. Lebron gets people involved, but he's not a leader. I don't get the feeling he can rally troops, because he tries to do all of the rallying himself. The only time he shows fire is when he does a highlight play. Even Dirk knocked over an exercise bike and was visibly pissed after the Heat beat the Mavs. And Dirk isn't known as a leader and has the "soft" label placed on him. So what does that say about Lebron? A player that seemed totally apathetic during AND after the games.

sgm405
05-15-2010, 09:17 PM
Kobe didn't develop that "killer instinct" until later in his career...he's no-showed for many games, including NBA Finals games.

johnnycake44022
05-15-2010, 09:30 PM
The concerning part is that lebron started off humble with a sense of duty but has seemed to get worse as time has gone by. Not a good trend.

The Common Man
05-15-2010, 09:34 PM
Kobe and Jordan cared about winning first and foremost, because that's what they truly cared about

LeBron "cares" about winning first and foremost because that's what people want to hear.

LeBron's personality is much more Shaq/Magic Johnson than it is Kobe or MJ.

cfrontz
05-15-2010, 09:41 PM
Kobe and Jordan cared about winning first and foremost, because that's what they truly cared about

LeBron "cares" about winning first and foremost because that's what people want to hear.

LeBron's personality is much more Shaq/Magic Johnson than it is Kobe or MJ.

Well said.

I do not see the point of this thread, though. People are not saying that he is unlike MJ and Kobe because it's the fashionable thing to do. It is a direct consequence of his play in the playoffs. In that sense, he was unlike the MJ and Kobe that we know and love. Yes, both of those guys had their struggles--but so what? Just because they struggled and eventually became who they are does not mean Lebron will do the same. These are three different people were talking about here. All we can say at this point is he is not there yet. And he showed us that.

King Conan
05-15-2010, 09:42 PM
Just because Michael Jordan (and Kobe Bryant) was so successful doesn't mean the Jordan formula is the only bluerprint for success. Hey, Magic Johnson was that over-the-top, over-joyous, over-hugging guy who led the Lakers in the 80's. He didn't have to be a dick to be successful and I would argue that Magic's 5 titles, 9 Finals appearance in the more competitive 1980's (remember that Larry Bird and the Cetlics had three titles and the Bad Boys had two) is more impressive than Jordan's 6 titles in the 1990's when an aging Karl Malone was good enough to get two MVPs.

Bill Russell, the greatest winner in any sport, had 11 titles in 13 years, two NCAA titles, an Olympic gold medal. By all accounts, he was a wonderful teammate whom many ex-teammates still remember with so much fondness to these days.

The winningest guy of the past decade, 4 time champ, 2 time MVP and 3 time Finals MVP Tim Duncan, was so nice that he was boring. Yet he's a winner.

LBJ23MJ
05-15-2010, 09:44 PM
This post (http://realcavsfans.com/showthread.php?p=890464#post890464), and this post (http://realcavsfans.com/showthread.php?p=890524#post890524) as well.

That's all I'll say about this thread.

sgm405
05-15-2010, 10:00 PM
Just because Michael Jordan (and Kobe Bryant) was so successful doesn't mean the Jordan formula is the only bluerprint for success. Hey, Magic Johnson was that over-the-top, over-joyous, over-hugging guy who led the Lakers in the 80's. He didn't have to be a dick to be successful and I would argue that Magic's 5 titles, 9 Finals appearance in the more competitive 1980's (remember that Larry Bird and the Cetlics had three titles and the Bad Boys had two) is more impressive than Jordan's 6 titles in the 1990's when an aging Karl Malone was good enough to get two MVPs.

Bill Russell, the greatest winner in any sport, had 11 titles in 13 years, two NCAA titles, an Olympic gold medal. By all accounts, he was a wonderful teammate whom many ex-teammates still remember with so much fondness to these days.

The winningest guy of the past decade, 4 time champ, 2 time MVP and 3 time Finals MVP Tim Duncan, was so nice that he was boring. Yet he's a winner.

When did anyone say it was the only blueprint to success? The point was that it IS one blueprint to success.

sgm405
05-15-2010, 10:01 PM
Well said.

I do not see the point of this thread, though. People are not saying that he is unlike MJ and Kobe because it's the fashionable thing to do. It is a direct consequence of his play in the playoffs. In that sense, he was unlike the MJ and Kobe that we know and love. Yes, both of those guys had their struggles--but so what? Just because they struggled and eventually became who they are does not mean Lebron will do the same. These are three different people were talking about here. All we can say at this point is he is not there yet. And he showed us that.

Kobe did the same exact thing LeBron did in the playoffs this year at least five different times...

King Conan
05-15-2010, 10:15 PM
When did anyone say it was the only blueprint to success? The point was that it IS one blueprint to success.

Well nobody categorically said it was the only blueprint for success but people talk and act like it is. If you doubt me, show me a link where people are advising Lebron to take the path to success using Magic Johnson's or Bill Russell's or Tim Duncan's formula.

sgm405
05-15-2010, 10:38 PM
Well nobody categorically said it was the only blueprint for success but people talk and act like it is. If you doubt me, show me a link where people are advising Lebron to take the path to success using Magic Johnson's or Bill Russell's or Tim Duncan's formula.

I love Tim Duncan, and wish all NBA stars were like him...but they're not, and that's OK if it means championships.

Lord Mar
05-16-2010, 03:57 AM
To the OP: well said.

Photon
05-16-2010, 04:09 AM
Kobe is such a killer. I wish LBJ was more like him. You know, just like when LA beat the Celts in the Finals.. Wait wut? :chuckles: Maybe more like MJ in his first six years, wait--- Maybe like Melo? Nah, first round exits are not his strong part...
Maybe he should be like LeBron with another go to player on his team. Yeah and a competent coach...Yeah, that's it. Like LBJ. He should be like him.

Powerslave
05-16-2010, 04:17 AM
So true! We can't end this abusive relationship just yet. After all, his stuff is still in my house. I say we see how things go for another 3 years and end it violently.

cav jvl
05-16-2010, 04:18 AM
LBJ has the killer instinct. It just did not happen this year due to the elbow, the second best player AV being injured, the backcourt not showing up and poor coaching. MJ, Kobe, Dr J, Shaq, Bird, Magic, Bill Russell, Oscar Robertson, Wilt Chamberlain, and all the other greats could not win champioships without the right support. Ask Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing about that. The fact that the Cavs achieved the top seed is a testament to LBJ's greatness.....but in the playoffs you need better coaching, health and the whole team needs to show up. Once emotions have calmed, LBJ will sign here because this is still the best place for him to play.

chicago bulls 6
05-17-2010, 12:50 AM
Kobe is such a killer. I wish LBJ was more like him. You know, just like when LA beat the Celts in the Finals.. Wait wut? :chuckles: Maybe more like MJ in his first six years, wait--- Maybe like Melo? Nah, first round exits are not his strong part...
Maybe he should be like LeBron with another go to player on his team. Yeah and a competent coach...Yeah, that's it. Like LBJ. He should be like him.Are you serious? You don't think kobe has a killer instinct?

The problem with your statement is lebron and melo are not champions or winners. Kobe and MJ are.

Chris
05-17-2010, 01:03 AM
Coming to terms with the fact that the guy is a semi-douche. That's okay. I never thought he was until now, and it sucks to have to now agree with all of the haters. But I'd still love him back.