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KIisKing
05-16-2010, 12:32 PM
I thought I would post this for you guys to see some perspective of other towns writers. Not a very article but still found it interesting.


Cleveland in LeBron James' rearview mirror? Looks like it
Cavaliers' stunning playoff exit left much finger-pointing in its wake, some of it by team management, and some directed at James, previously thought to be infallible. Meanwhile, teams are lining up to bid for him, and LeBron, a free agent, appears receptive.


By Mark Heisler Tribune newspapers


On the bright side for Cavaliers fans, at least they can see LeBron James when he comes to town with his new team!

They're playing for keeps this spring with Toronto's Chris Bosh and Atlanta's Joe Johnson already surveying the ruins of their teams before the Cavaliers' season, and possibly their world, ended in a stunning loss to the creaky Celtics.

Actually, it wasn't stunning at all, with James playing much of the series left-handed.

Nevertheless, the world that kissed his feet right up to the presentation of his second MVP award before Game 1, suddenly awoke to the realization he was clueless, heartless and/or a quitter.

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Accompanying the worldwide pile-on was a new perspective on Kobe Bryant, supposedly in the process of being left behind by Kevin Durant as well as James, ripped in the first round for pouting and/or getting old while hiding his knee injury:

How could we ever have doubted you, Kobe?

It definitely helps to know what they're looking at, and see it through your own eyes, as opposed to writing down what everyone says, which is journalism, and swallowing it, which isn't.

With James refusing to make his elbow an issue . . . or apparently, to get a simple anti-inflammatory shot . . . and Coach Mike Brown, Boston Coach Doc Rivers and their players pooh-poohing it, it still came down to one of two possibilities:

A) The elbow wouldn't let James do more.

B) The arch-competitor with the mind-blowing game and serene self-confidence underwent a total personality change.

Of course, everyone went with B) total personality change, starting with Cavaliers management.

Confused, in denial, or both, team officials took James at this word, blaming everything on Brown, now a dead coach walking amid reports LeBron and Shaquille O'Neal had had it with him . . . as players do with coaches when the bottom drops out.

In 1973, Boston's John Havlicek became a folk hero, playing left-handed after separating his right shoulder as the Celtics, who trailed the Knicks, 3-1, forced a Game 7, before falling.

James' elbow got less attention, or none, while becoming a bigger problem, like the list by FoxSports.com's Charley Rosen, Phil Jackson's assistant in the minor leagues, known for probing looks into players' psyches:

--LeBron, himself, doesn't believe the overwhelming hype about his own game, and there's an undercurrent of self-doubt working in his subconscious.

--Or, he's simply the king of chokers.

--Or, his bags are already packed and he's headed out of town.

James does look outward-bound, barring a sentimental turnaround that didn't seem at hand when he noted afterward that he loves Cleveland, adding:

"At the same time, we've had a great time together."

His love for the place is actually the Cavaliers' sole remaining edge, locked into this roster with no cap space, even without their crumbling statuary, 7-foot free agents O'Neal and Zydrunas Ilgauskas.

James has already passed up one chance to leave but seven seasons later, his last title is the Ohio state high school championship.

It may be excruciating, but it's not a hard call with nothing more there than Antawn Jamison, Mo Williams, J.J. Hickson, Delonte West and Anderson Varejao.

James can do better lots of places, including:

1. Chicago -- Best supporting cast: Derrick Rose, Joakim Noah, Luol Deng, Kirk Hinrich and Taj Gibson.


It's true, the Bulls' inbred management has a grisly history with free agents, functioning on the level of Jimmy Breslin's bumbling Mafioso "who couldn't run a gas station at a profit unless he stole the customers' cars," in "The Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight."

They're now coming off their adventure with fired coach Vinny Del Negro, whom they decided to keep at midseason, leaving the team to underachieve under him, before his angry run-in with shadow General Manager John Paxson.

What could go wrong now?

2. New York -- Minimal supporting cast, since David Lee has to go to free up enough money, but the only team with two maximum slots.

That should get the Knicks an audience, with the possibility of James getting Bosh or Amare Stoudemire to come with him.

3. Miami -- With Dwyane Wade, the Heat should get an audience too.

However, after the big two, they'd have only Michael Beasley, Jermaine O'Neal, et al.

4. Clippers -- With a supporting cast that might blow the Bulls' away, who cares if they're down the hall from Kobe? Donald T. Sterling would build LeBron a new hall, with a new arena around it.

Unfortunately, they had the season they had, after which Sterling stiffed Mike Dunleavy for the money he owed him, reminding everyone they're still the Clippers.

5. New Jersey -- As former James confidant Sonny Vaccaro noted, LeBron's not going to Newark, even for a year.

6. Lakers -- Give me a break.

The spring's not over. After the Suns' miracle rally, they're going all-out to re-sign Stoudemire, who was shopped right to the trade deadline, but now appears caught up in the excitement.

Of course, losing to the Lakers would be a bummer, which is a bad way to leave things this summer.

Oakley's Take


The New York Daily News reports: Charles Oakley, a friend/mentor to LeBron James over the past few years, offers some insight into King James' head.

"Chicago or Miami," says Charles Oakley, the former Knicks power forward and close friend of Michael Jordan. "Not New York. He's leaving."

"He wants to go someplace where he can win," Oakley said following Cleveland's Game 5 loss on Tuesday. "He's been in the league, what, seven or eight years? It's time for him to get over the hump."

bucksprime99
05-16-2010, 12:33 PM
IIRC the "We've had a great time together" is a complete misquote.

mAo_mAo
05-16-2010, 12:47 PM
I can see it now, If LeBron has a bad game of sorts he will be crucified by these beat reporters and more so the national media. Quotes like "He does not deserve the money the way he played tonight", "LeDrama Queen is true", "Cleveland, you can have him back".

nime
05-16-2010, 12:51 PM
Charles Oakley and LeBron? Friends?

LOL, probably the worst source for an article.

SmallStone
05-16-2010, 12:51 PM
Lol at everyone saying how great a roster Chicago has. Prior to LeBron's free agency there wasn't one respectable writer willing to say that Deng, Hinrich or Gibson were more than mediocre NBA talent a best. Now they're being listed as part of the best core LeBron could play with? GTFO. Joke Noah is highly overrated, and possibly no better of a player than Anderson Varejao. The ONLY player that makes that Chicago team remotely attractive is Derrick Rose. Is that enough for LeBron to sign there long term? We'll see soon enough but I just don't buy it.

jvpertz
05-16-2010, 12:51 PM
So basically the guy is going off nothing and just guessing at what Leborn is going to do. And more guessing and deductive reasoning masquerading as insight by Oakley to back it up.

Again, nothing new here.

nime
05-16-2010, 12:51 PM
Rose, LBJ, and Noah ain't getting by Boston, Orlando, or LA

TJ Detweiler
05-16-2010, 12:55 PM
Rose, LBJ, and Noah ain't getting by Boston, Orlando, or LA

I beg to differ.

jvpertz
05-16-2010, 12:55 PM
Rose, LBJ, and Noah ain't getting by Boston, Orlando, or LA



Ya but dont underestimate how far a healthy Lebron can take you.

Although it wouldnt be pretty because the Bulls front court is pretty much one man right now.

Wulfgar1224
05-16-2010, 12:57 PM
As much as it hurts to read, there are places where LeBron is in a better place to win longterm. Chicago is one obvious example. Through a miracle in the lottery, they were able to get Rose. Noah is developing nicely. Granted, Chicago wouldn't have the depth of Orlando the first year LeBron got there if he chooses to go. But, they would have the pieces in places to win titles quickly. Cleveland just doesn't have a lot of young talent for that long-term run. And, with no draft picks this year, they aren't getting any this season.

Chris
05-16-2010, 12:57 PM
I beg to differ.

Rea....lly...I'd love to hear that rationale.

Photon
05-16-2010, 12:58 PM
Rose, LBJ, and Noah ain't getting by Boston, Orlando, or LA

But there is still Hinrich and Deng to be maybe traded? They can improve... What do we have? Mo, Jamison, AV. If nothing else Rose will be/is a superstar, we have nothing like that here.

GreasySpread36
05-16-2010, 01:02 PM
Rose, LBJ, and Noah ain't getting by Boston, Orlando, or LA

Not unless LBJ lets Rose be the alpha dog. No team with LeBron as the #1 option will ever win a title.

KIisKing
05-16-2010, 01:02 PM
Chicago offers Lebron a young all star in Derrick Rose and that is attractive especially since Chicago is a big market. Do I think that will end up being a better situation than Cleveland? No. No one knows what he is going to do but every article offers a new perspective. Thats why I posted it.

stycool24
05-16-2010, 01:03 PM
But there is still Hinrich and Deng to be maybe traded? They can improve... What do we have? Mo, Jamison, AV. If nothing else Rose will be/is a superstar, we have nothing like that here.

Which team would want Deng with his horrible contract? Hinrich is overrated like hell! He is streaky, doesn't show up most of the time.

DougHeil
05-16-2010, 01:03 PM
Are we going to have a new thread for each article a chicago writer, a NY writer, a Miami writer writes about how LeBron is probably going to play for their city, but not Cleveland?

..just wondering

KIisKing
05-16-2010, 01:04 PM
Not unless LBJ lets Rose be the alpha dog. No team with LeBron as the #1 option will ever win a title.

Thats an outrageous statement

mAo_mAo
05-16-2010, 01:07 PM
If Rose and James develop a consistent outside shot they can dominate the league. How can you possibly defend them? They just need to draft a Center to move Noah to the PF position and they are set, IMO. Then you move Hinrich, Deng, Taj Gibson to the bench. If they land LeBron they can probably sign a top veteran player for the MLE. If they feel more aggressive they can trade Hinrich and Deng for solid player.

The question here is- Is their front office/ownership be committed? and If LeBron casts his ego aside and play under the shadow of MJ every single night?

TheNewEra
05-16-2010, 01:10 PM
The thing with Chicago, all you have to do is sag off them cause nobody on the bulls are great shooters if they get LeBron. Everybody is driver or mid-range shooter.

stycool24
05-16-2010, 01:10 PM
If Rose and James develop a consistent outside shot they can dominate the league. How can you possibly defend them? They just need to draft a Center to move Noah to the PF position and they are set, IMO. Then you move Hinrich, Deng, Taj Gibson to the bench. If they land LeBron they can probably sign a top veteran player for the MLE. If they feel more aggressive they can trade Hinrich and Deng for solid player.

The question here is- Is their front office/ownership be committed? and If LeBron casts his ego aside and play under the shadow of MJ every single night?

So, that Combo will win a championship right now? It won't for sure! This team will be a 2nd round exit team too!

They dont have shooters, doesn't really fit Lebron for sure.

No one really wants Deng's contract, its horrible.

Mars
05-16-2010, 01:13 PM
Mark Heisler is actually a Lakers beat writer for the LA Times.

TheNewEra
05-16-2010, 01:13 PM
Plus John Paxson is a horrible GM, show me one good move he did for the Bulls besides getting lucky with Derrick Rose in draft. Also he ruined the Cavs chance of building young core with LeBron.

wuck
05-16-2010, 01:14 PM
The article was written by an LA Times writer and reprinted in the Chicago Tribune. The back story that propels this kind of piece is "LA Lakers and Kobe are better than others. Let's bash LeBron and Cleveland."

That's likely why it is mainly speculation and has very little inside scoop.

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/may/15/sports/la-sp-heisler-lebron-20100516

Changed thread title.

castor777
05-16-2010, 01:19 PM
LeBron can't really go anywhere this year and win a championship unless he's willing to do it for chump change and go to Orlando or the Lakers. Obviously that's not happening.

With adding LeBron, the Bulls would have a great core - but they'd still need to add a lot of depth to get passed the Magic and Lakers, and even then the Suns and Celtics. In a year or two they could get enough talent to pull it off and turn into a dynasty - but going to the Bulls is not an instant title, I don't care what anyone says.

And no, I really don't think anyone is going to take on Deng's contract. I love how Chris Broussard said the Bulls would sign LeBron and then work out a sign-and-trade with another team for Luol Deng in return. So a team that just let go of their franchise player is going to take back a player of only half that talent and a REAL SHITTY contract? Get real.

daddywags
05-16-2010, 01:22 PM
But there is still Hinrich and Deng to be maybe traded? They can improve... What do we have? Mo, Jamison, AV. If nothing else Rose will be/is a superstar, we have nothing like that here.

Deng is owed $51 million over the next four years. Not sure how you trade that for something better. If Chicago signs LeBron they have basically six players: Rose, Noah, Hinrich, Deng, Gibson and LeBron (they also have James Johnson who showed very little in his rookie year). Everybody else on that team is a free agent (Miller, Thomas, Warrick - they wouldn't be able to sign any of them unless they take a pay cut). So where's the bigs besides Noah? If they renounce everybody else they will probably be able to sign one more player at above mid-level rates, but the others are going to have to come cheap.

SoundBreaker
05-16-2010, 01:25 PM
I find it funny that it's really LeBron's FAULT that the Cavs aren't in a position to retain him. His 3 year contract threats handicapped the Cavs from growing from within and drafting longterm talent. Hence the aging roster we have. We constantly searched for short term solutions and now we're screwed.

Now he's going to leave the mess he helped create.





LeBron is ALL ABOUT LEBRON.


Screw him for retarding our franchise and quitting on the team vs. BOS. This team did EVERYTHING for him. His lack of commitment didn't allow us to land long-term solutions or draft key players.

nime
05-16-2010, 01:32 PM
Noah can't stop Howard, Bynum, Gasol, KG, or Perkins next year.

Chicago needs about 2-3 more bigs before being able to play with the big boys.

The Edge
05-16-2010, 01:32 PM
Same writer who wrote a story about big Z not coming back to the Cavaliers after the Jamison trade.

I wrote to him back then and said he would be proven wrong (obviously),and recommended he stick to La sports and leave the Cavaliers to Windy.

Northstar
05-16-2010, 01:51 PM
Not unless LBJ lets Rose be the alpha dog. No team with LeBron as the #1 option will ever win a title.

LOL did you really just say this?

Who in the entire league would be the #1 option over LeBron?

Eli's Eyes
05-16-2010, 01:53 PM
I find it funny that it's really LeBron's FAULT that the Cavs aren't in a position to retain him. His 3 year contract threats handicapped the Cavs from growing from within and drafting longterm talent. Hence the aging roster we have. We constantly searched for short term solutions and now we're screwed.

Now he's going to leave the mess he helped create.





LeBron is ALL ABOUT LEBRON.


Screw him for retarding our franchise and quitting on the team vs. BOS. This team did EVERYTHING for him. His lack of commitment didn't allow us to land long-term solutions or draft key players.
This.

Even Cavs fans don't quite grasp the points expressed in this post. Hence the lack of outrage from them everytime the Cavs supporting cast gets thrown under the bus in these rumors about LeBron leaving.

LeBron will one day be seen for what he is -- atleast when it comes to his time here as a Cav. Dude never wholly embraced the city, fans, or organization. Yet people and the individuals revered this guy.

Well, he's about to finally you how much he's appreciated the support of Cleveland and the Cavs organization. By wearing another uniform.

You'll see then...

GreasySpread36
05-16-2010, 01:53 PM
LOL did you really just say this?

Who in the entire league would be the #1 option over LeBron?

Somebody had better be, or he'll go ringless. He was the #1 option on a 66-win team and a 61-team and couldn't even get to the Finals. Proof is in the pudding.

LBJ23MJ
05-16-2010, 02:01 PM
Somebody had better be, or he'll go ringless. He was the #1 option on a 66-win team and a 61-team and couldn't even get to the Finals. Proof is in the pudding.

More like there are DRUGS in the pudding. What you said was absolutely ridiculous.

That's the double-edged sword with a briilaint number #1 option like James. He's so good he can make an entire team look better than they actually are. So when they get beat by better TEAMS with players that can perform in the PLAYOFFS, it's seen as his fault. It's a paradox in a sense, but anyone with a background in philosophy knows the inherent problem with paradoxes.

But I digress.

InBoobieWeTrust
05-16-2010, 02:02 PM
I mean, if I'm a prospective free agent the first place that I'm headed is to a town with a notoriously cheap owner who has a love affair with his GM, John Paxson, who throws punches at his coach and also employs and is related to the man who was instrumental in letting the best player LeBron's ever played with leave(Boozer), Jim Paxson. Let's say this Calipari bullshit is true, and Chicago hires him....do you think HE wants any part of dealing with John Paxson's bullshit? No, he not only wants nothing to do with that, he wants legitimate power over personnel moves...something that Reisendorf and Paxson have no intentions of letting happen.

The situation in Chicago is far from perfect and doesn't even come close to guaranteeing titles. Imagine if LeBron failed in CHICAGO; what if he failed to deliver what MJ once did? LeBron's legacy would be tarnished beyond belief. The only thing worse would be failing in New York because of the slime-ball media guys there.

I don't like making guarantees so I wont, but if I had to wager on what LeBron does, I'd wager a pretty penny on him signing a 4 year deal to stay in Cleveland with an opt-out after 3. Essentially the same contract he signed 3 years ago. He'll do it, he'll help pick the coach, and he'll still have plenty of control over the franchise for the next three years. After that, all bets are off.

I just don't think leaving Dan Gilbert for Jerry Reisendorf makes any sense, and the New York thing never has and continues to make little sense. We'll see what happens.

Eli's Eyes
05-16-2010, 02:04 PM
You know, I've spent all season arguing LeBron vs Durant. All year!!

LeBron all the way, right?

Well, Durant in three seasons has endeared himself more to the OKC fanbase than LeBron has ever done here, and they've sucked two of his three years there.

But that's what happens when you don't play like you're bigger than the game. You can lead a team from OKC and feel good about it. Even though you lose in the short-term, you realize YOU CAN'T WIN IN THIS LEAGUE BY YOURSELF. Meaning you need help. Help that will come via the draft for teams in this league. You know LeBron, just like every team you're rumored to be going to? They're all littered with lottery picks and top-2 selections in the case of Chicago and Miami.

Oh I wonder why the Bulls core is youner than ours? *rolleyes*

jvpertz
05-16-2010, 02:12 PM
People have such a hard on for Chicago and Lebron but it really doesnt resolve ANY of Lebron's issues.

In fact in practice, it may even be a worse situation than Cleveland, I dont care how good Rose is.

Lets not forget that this poorly organized, ZERO chemistry Cavs squad still beat the Bulls in 5 games while the Bulls were at their absolute APEX in terms of playing like a team and having everyone hit their shots.

Rose plays the same game as Lebron. He is a ball dominant hybrid guard that needs the rock in his hands 80 percent of the time. He isnt a spot up shooter. Rose doesnt play off of people.

Lebron is the same player just a bigger, better version. Neither guy is a pure shooter.

And you run in to the same issues when you talk about pairing Lebron with Wade. On paper it looks like total domination. But trust me, pairing Lebron with another guard who plays the exact same game isnt going to equal title runs.

Jordan-Pippen worked because Pippen played a MUCH different game. Pippen was a point-forward defensive specialist, with point guard skills and handle, and a nice floor game where he didnt need the ball in his hands all of the time.

LBJ-Rose, LBJ-Wade are highly overrated pairings if you ask me. If I was Lebron I would be looking to be paired with a dead eye shooter at shooting guard and a real big man that can score on the block like Bosh or Amare.

After all, Lebron shows ZERO signs of expanding his game towards the block or playing off the ball.

It is getting to the point where Lebron is who he is as a player and hoping that he will one day decide to play near the block and take advantage of his tremendous size, speed, and strength on the interior probably isnt going to happen.

Eli's Eyes
05-16-2010, 02:15 PM
If I'm Gilbert, I go to LeBron and offer him minimum six-year deal with a player option after the fifth year. No more of this three year crap.

It's time Gibert stands up to LeBron. What's mutually beneficial for the Cavs is what's best for LeBron. And vice-versa. They need to see it as a partnership and trust each other.

Gilbert has to get James on board long term at this point. Enough is enough. This nonsense that's happened over the past 18 months in particular is ridiculous. No more letting LeBron dictate short-term moves without long-term commitment.

MoFlo
05-16-2010, 02:43 PM
Not unless LBJ lets Rose be the alpha dog. No team with LeBron as the #1 option will ever win a title.

I can't believe how many times I've said this on this board in the past couple weeks, but this really trumps all of those.

This is the dumbest thing I've heard in my life.

MoFlo
05-16-2010, 02:44 PM
Somebody had better be, or he'll go ringless. He was the #1 option on a 66-win team and a 61-team and couldn't even get to the Finals. Proof is in the pudding.

Yep, let's forget the match-up problems, the chemistry taking a hit, and the (lack of in some cases) coaching..

Radar
05-16-2010, 02:47 PM
I say what ever team lebron goes to, still has players to add to get to the finals...Because most teams will have to get him through sign and trade they will still be weak...If he would go to chicago, its like he will be in the same situation as he is this year year...He just would have a nice star but nothing much behind those 2

The ONLY team i see where he will have a good team already is portland...Even when they sign and trade they will be good to go...Other than that i say his best bet is to stay with the cavs and for him to bring a star here

Btw there need to be threads combining...All these articles are stating the same shit about lebron leaving or staying

DougHeil
05-16-2010, 02:53 PM
As much as it hurts to read, there are places where LeBron is in a better place to win longterm. Chicago is one obvious example. Through a miracle in the lottery, they were able to get Rose. Noah is developing nicely. Granted, Chicago wouldn't have the depth of Orlando the first year LeBron got there if he chooses to go. But, they would have the pieces in places to win titles quickly. Cleveland just doesn't have a lot of young talent for that long-term run. And, with no draft picks this year, they aren't getting any this season.

That's crap. Before the Boston series most everyone said LeBron was staying a Cavalier. Why? Because the Cavs have the damn best owner and structure in place, with one reason being the Chinese investors, etc, etc, etc... the list is long. What the hell changed those facts?

Many of you are full of it. We already know the National Media is full of it, so why are you all buying into the crap?

If LeBron or any of you think that he will go to Chicago or NY and win next year or the year after that, you and LeBron are living in a dream world and NOT in reality. Period.

MoFlo
05-16-2010, 02:54 PM
LeBron to Chicago doesn't make sense unless:

1.) LeBron or Rose develop a consistent outside jump shot.

2.) They get a scoring/shooting big man, and a banger that can deal with Howard/Bynum, etc..

Rose & LeBron both have the ball in their hands a lot, and both play in the paint quite a bit.

It also won't work unless LeBron seriously stops his "dribble the ball for 20 seconds until I have to hoist up a shot" offense. (Which he needs to do regardless of where he goes, but in Chicago moreso because of Rose.)

futuristxen
05-16-2010, 03:06 PM
No team with LeBron as the ONLY option will ever win a title.

Fixed

jvpertz
05-16-2010, 03:07 PM
LeBron to Chicago doesn't make sense unless:

1.) LeBron or Rose develop a consistent outside jump shot.

2.) They get a scoring/shooting big man, and a banger that can deal with Howard/Bynum, etc..

Rose & LeBron both have the ball in their hands a lot, and both play in the paint quite a bit.

It also won't work unless LeBron seriously stops his "dribble the ball for 20 seconds until I have to hoist up a shot" offense. (Which he needs to do regardless of where he goes, but in Chicago moreso because of Rose.)

They dont just have the ball in their hands A LOT, they have the ball in their hands all the time.

It is great to pair superstars but you better make sure that they are complimentary assets and not replicas of each other.

Lebron, Wade, and Rose all play the EXACT same game. Ball dominant guards, dribble drive heavy, dont like to the move without the ball, love to attack from the perimeter.

Lebron needs to be paired with players who dont like to dribble A LOT. Because Lebron loves to dribble and he has no back to the basket game or weakside ball movement.

futuristxen
05-16-2010, 03:11 PM
LeBron to Chicago doesn't make sense unless:

1.) LeBron or Rose develop a consistent outside jump shot.

2.) They get a scoring/shooting big man, and a banger that can deal with Howard/Bynum, etc..

Rose & LeBron both have the ball in their hands a lot, and both play in the paint quite a bit.

It also won't work unless LeBron seriously stops his "dribble the ball for 20 seconds until I have to hoist up a shot" offense. (Which he needs to do regardless of where he goes, but in Chicago moreso because of Rose.)

I don't think Rose really dominates the ball. He gets down the court quick and gets into the offense. You would obviously need to be a running team and take advantage of his, Lebron, and Noah's athleticism. And then in the half court you'd want to run Lebron into the post or off the ball and Let Rose drive and dish to him for the finish. Or vice versa.

If you had a good coach I think it would be a really good team. And if the Bulls end up having to keep Deng then Deng, Lebron as your forwards is a huge matchup problem for everyone in the league except for the Magic. Power forwards would have to guard Deng or Lebron, which would be a problem.

As soon as a coach starts playing Lebron at the 4 and running a lot, it's all over for the rest of the league. He's unstoppable at the 4. IMO. And defensively the Bulls would be all over the place they could switch almost everything.

MoFlo
05-16-2010, 03:19 PM
I don't think Rose really dominates the ball. He gets down the court quick and gets into the offense. You would obviously need to be a running team and take advantage of his, Lebron, and Noah's athleticism. And then in the half court you'd want to run Lebron into the post or off the ball and Let Rose drive and dish to him for the finish. Or vice versa.

If you had a good coach I think it would be a really good team. And if the Bulls end up having to keep Deng then Deng, Lebron as your forwards is a huge matchup problem for everyone in the league except for the Magic. Power forwards would have to guard Deng or Lebron, which would be a problem.

As soon as a coach starts playing Lebron at the 4 and running a lot, it's all over for the rest of the league. He's unstoppable at the 4. IMO. And defensively the Bulls would be all over the place they could switch almost everything.

OK, and you really think LeBron will be ok with being off the ball for the majority of the game?

Yes, power forwards having to guard Deng or LeBron will be a problem, but if I'm a power forward, I ask to guard Deng & make him shoot jumpers all day. They won't go too him too often with LeBron & Rose handling the ball the entire time. If they do, I'd much rather have Deng shoot j's all day & score 40 than Rose & LeBron handling the ball.

And let's not forget, LeBron or Deng would also have to guard the Power Forward on the other end.

LBJ23MJ
05-16-2010, 03:28 PM
Lebron needs to be paired with players who dont like to dribble A LOT. Because Lebron loves to dribble and he has no back to the basket game or weakside ball movement.

This is a myth. Please find the entire set of '08 Olympics basketball games on your TiVo and watch them again. LeBron can't take a step back in the offense and dominate alright...which is why all of his numbers went up higher than a space station in that tournament.

And if you even wanna try using the "Well he played in the Olympics, the NBA is different than that" argument, I have some nice skill curves to show you to prove otherwise.

Heej
05-16-2010, 03:33 PM
It's not like Lebron proved he's capable of playing off the ball on the Redeem Team or anything :rolleyes:. All this talk of ball-dominant players not being able to mesh is a load of crap to me. They're superstars and for that reason they can make it work if they choose to do so (which clearly they will considering they specifically chose to team up together).

Who's to say Lebron's demeanor won't change regarding his ball dominant tendencies when he's playing alongside someone who's a worthy first option on a playoff caliber or championship caliber team. And this holds more weight with the Heat more than anything.

Because every single one of you needs to get your heads out of your asses if you believe for even a fraction of a second that a hyper-competitve, incredibly demanding, highly decorated SOB like Pat Riley wouldn't demand that Lebron improves his off-ball movement and post-game to help the offensive flow and produce better ball-movement. Hell, from a basketball fan standpoint I'd prefer he learns under Pat Riley more than anything because Riles would rather mutilate himself before letting someone as gifted as Lebron play under him and not bring out every ounce of latent talent in his body.

Having someone like Riley in his face every day and every night pushing him to maximize his ability would do wonders for Lebron. Plus, he just might recreate the Showtime Lakers with athletic players like Lebron, Wade, and whoever else they get on that team to run the floor and put them in a system that uses these players to the best of their abilities. You never know, right? :chuckles:

LBJ23MJ
05-16-2010, 03:35 PM
It's not like Lebron proved he's capable of playing off the ball on the Redeem Team or anything :rolleyes:. All this talk of ball-dominant players not being able to mesh is a load of crap to me. They're superstars and for that reason they can make it work if they choose to do so (which clearly they will considering they specifically chose to team up together).

Who's to say Lebron's demeanor won't change regarding his ball dominant tendencies when he's playing alongside someone who's a worthy first option on a playoff caliber or championship caliber team. And this holds more weight with the Heat more than anything.

Because every single one of you needs to get your heads out of your asses if you believe for even a fraction of a second that a hyper-competitve, incredibly demanding, highly decorated SOB like Pat Riley wouldn't demand that Lebron improves his off-ball movement and post-game to help the offensive flow and produce better ball-movement.

Did you just...say something I AGREE WITH?!?!?!?!?!? :eek:

lol

Heej
05-16-2010, 03:42 PM
Did you just...say something I AGREE WITH?!?!?!?!?!? :eek:

lol

There's a first time for everything. Imagine my disgust when you pointed out the same thing I did regarding the Redeem Team :chuckles:.

ice cream man
05-16-2010, 04:12 PM
Wade to Chicago makes a lot more sense than LeBron to Chicago simply because Wade's current team is pathetic. If Rose could hit a three, it'd be a different story, but Rose and LeBron cannot catch and shoot. Chicago with or without LeBron will have a good defense, but not a good enough offense.

MoFlo
05-16-2010, 04:20 PM
It's not like Lebron proved he's capable of playing off the ball on the Redeem Team or anything :rolleyes:. All this talk of ball-dominant players not being able to mesh is a load of crap to me. They're superstars and for that reason they can make it work if they choose to do so (which clearly they will considering they specifically chose to team up together).

Who's to say Lebron's demeanor won't change regarding his ball dominant tendencies when he's playing alongside someone who's a worthy first option on a playoff caliber or championship caliber team. And this holds more weight with the Heat more than anything.

Because every single one of you needs to get your heads out of your asses if you believe for even a fraction of a second that a hyper-competitve, incredibly demanding, highly decorated SOB like Pat Riley wouldn't demand that Lebron improves his off-ball movement and post-game to help the offensive flow and produce better ball-movement. Hell, from a basketball fan standpoint I'd prefer he learns under Pat Riley more than anything because Riles would rather mutilate himself before letting someone as gifted as Lebron play under him and not bring out every ounce of latent talent in his body.

Having someone like Riley in his face every day and every night pushing him to maximize his ability would do wonders for Lebron. Plus, he just might recreate the Showtime Lakers with athletic players like Lebron, Wade, and whoever else they get on that team to run the floor and put them in a system that uses these players to the best of their abilities. You never know, right? :chuckles:

Come on man, that was for the country, of course they're going to all mesh together & do what they have to do. They'd be perceived as pricks if they let egos get in the way of winning a gold for the country.

Look at all the guys on the original dream team, they dominated. But do you think for a second that Jordan would've wanted Magic or Bird taking shots & the spotlight away from him in Chicago?

That's why LeBron won't go to Miami.

You really think LeBron's ego, hell, for that matter, Wade's ego would let them play together?

Rose & LeBron could mesh, but not with the team that is currently constructed there, and not if 1 of them doesn't improve their outside game.

Noah, Rose, LeBron, Deng all live in the paint, and none have a consistent outside shot.

They need a big that can shoot & they won't get past Orlando & the Lakers without having another big body or 2.

InBoobieWeTrust
05-16-2010, 04:23 PM
I don't think LeBron will go to Miami. Their lower bowl isn't even filled for playoff games. The fans there suck. It's a nice party destination and place to live in with no state tax, but that's not what will entice LBJ. That's stuff that'll entice people like Boozer.

ajz20
05-16-2010, 04:32 PM
I don't think LeBron will go to Miami. Their lower bowl isn't even filled for playoff games. The fans there suck. It's a nice party destination and place to live in with no state tax, but that's not what will entice LBJ. That's stuff that'll entice people like Boozer.

Lets be honest Lebron will go to wherever he and his "team" determine is the best fit for his "legacy"
If it were really about only winning titles he would sign with Oklahoma City for 14 mill a year (i believe that is there cap space) Westbrook, Durant, LBJ, Harden, Green, Ibaka and two 1st rounds picks. they would become the team of the decade. If it were only about winning and not about image he would go to Oklahoma City. That wont happen though, because he would never want to share the ball and spotlight with Durant, and his "team" lead by the snake wes wesly want him in a big market.

nime
05-16-2010, 04:35 PM
LeBron's best fit is still in Cleveland.

I think its time to make him the PG.

Its time to surround him with scorers. Find a shooting guard that wants to score and be the #1 option on offense.

Interesting if Ferry can find a way to get AI2 here this offseason with Mo, Delonte, and Telfair contracts...maybe take on Sammy D?

ajz20
05-16-2010, 04:42 PM
LeBron's best fit is still in Cleveland.

I think its time to make him the PG.

Its time to surround him with scorers. Find a shooting guard that wants to score and be the #1 option on offense.

Interesting if Ferry can find a way to get AI2 here this offseason with Mo, Delonte, and Telfair contracts...maybe take on Sammy D?

I dont know about any one else but it is very hard to get excited about any ideas for off-season moves until Lebrons future is official. Based on Wine and Golds last post, and Tonny Rizzo's brief blurb after talking with Golria on the way back from Boston, (he said she told him here and lebron want to start fresh and live in a big market) and Wes Wesly's strong influence; I am really not getting a good vibe about our chances. Therefore, i think alot of us are getting carried away with "adding pieces' when we are probably going to have a summer that sets us back to mediocrity and zero chance at challenging for a title in the near future. Hate to be this negative, but I can not bury my head about the reality we are about to face. I hope I am dead wrong, but there is very little evidence Lebron wants to come back right now.

cav jvl
05-16-2010, 04:43 PM
Actually Cleveland has a very good roster to go with LBJ. We just need a coach who knows how to use it.

KilgoreTrout
05-16-2010, 04:53 PM
I thought I would post this for you guys to see some perspective of other towns writers. Not a very article but still found it interesting.



Oakley's Take

That article reads like it was written by a 12-year-old. Whatever it was, it sure wasn't journalism.

Sea
05-16-2010, 04:58 PM
Lebron is a ring chaser. Can't win one like Jordan did. No different than Karl Malone if he leaves

Mdog1
05-16-2010, 05:02 PM
LeBrons best shot to win a title next year is Cleveland, LAL, BOS, ORL.

LeBrons best shot to win a title in 2-3 years (and then 3-4 years after that) is either Chicago or NJN. Both of those teams already have solid cores to go around him, all they really need is a couple of drafts to find defensive three point shooters, and in the case of Chicago a true center (may be done this year). Chicago has a solid core including an AS PG (Rose), and a potential AS PF/C (NOAH), not to mention that they have a great rebounding big in Taj (rookie), and a lot of good defensive guys (Deng, Hinrich, Johnson). Chicago is really a team that if you add in a superstar to go along with Rose then they could be a dynasty in the making.

Rose
Deng
LeBron
Noah
FA or draft

the biggest weakness is shooting from distance, but with LeBron and Rose on the floor together the defense would never be able to set itself up if those guys were moving.

jvpertz
05-16-2010, 06:30 PM
This is a myth. Please find the entire set of '08 Olympics basketball games on your TiVo and watch them again. LeBron can't take a step back in the offense and dominate alright...which is why all of his numbers went up higher than a space station in that tournament.

And if you even wanna try using the "Well he played in the Olympics, the NBA is different than that" argument, I have some nice skill curves to show you to prove otherwise.



Lebron played power forward for a team with Kobe, Wade, Paul, Williams, Carmelo

In no way shape or form will Lebron EVER accept a back to the basket, power forward type role in the NBA. NO WAY IN HELL

Playing the 4 in FIBA and playing the 4 in the NBA simply arent comparable positions. I hate to burst your bubble but no way in HELL does Lebron ever take a secondary ball handling role which forces him to play closer to the interior.

If he has refused to change for 7 seasons with the Cavs what will change things now?

Lebron is a ball dominant face up player, nothing more nothing less.

theSTEREO.
05-16-2010, 06:31 PM
LeBrons best shot to win a title next year is Cleveland, LAL, BOS, ORL.

LeBrons best shot to win a title in 2-3 years (and then 3-4 years after that) is either Chicago or NJN. Both of those teams already have solid cores to go around him, all they really need is a couple of drafts to find defensive three point shooters, and in the case of Chicago a true center (may be done this year). Chicago has a solid core including an AS PG (Rose), and a potential AS PF/C (NOAH), not to mention that they have a great rebounding big in Taj (rookie), and a lot of good defensive guys (Deng, Hinrich, Johnson). Chicago is really a team that if you add in a superstar to go along with Rose then they could be a dynasty in the making.

Rose
Deng
LeBron
Noah
FA or draft

the biggest weakness is shooting from distance, but with LeBron and Rose on the floor together the defense would never be able to set itself up if those guys were moving.

That's a moot point though.

LBJ's not signing anywhere for more than his little 3 year contracts. That means wherever he goes, they better be willing and able to win RIGHT NOW, and I mean RIGHT NOW.

Lebron is 25. This next contract will be during his pure NBA prime, and he will not go to a team that is going to waste the next 2-3 years climbing toward a title. That's what he did here in 2007. Now we are here, and just need to make the right tweaks (coaching, etc.) to get that title now and contend for the next 3 years.

Really, it's either us or Miami. Chicago's really only a viable option if someone helps them out and either sign&trades Wade or sign&trades Bron, and we nor Miami are going to do that.

Unless he goes somewhere that can get him in the Finals in 2011, he's not going anywhere.

jvpertz
05-16-2010, 06:31 PM
LeBrons best shot to win a title next year is Cleveland, LAL, BOS, ORL.

LeBrons best shot to win a title in 2-3 years (and then 3-4 years after that) is either Chicago or NJN. Both of those teams already have solid cores to go around him, all they really need is a couple of drafts to find defensive three point shooters, and in the case of Chicago a true center (may be done this year). Chicago has a solid core including an AS PG (Rose), and a potential AS PF/C (NOAH), not to mention that they have a great rebounding big in Taj (rookie), and a lot of good defensive guys (Deng, Hinrich, Johnson). Chicago is really a team that if you add in a superstar to go along with Rose then they could be a dynasty in the making.

Rose
Deng
LeBron
Noah
FA or draft

the biggest weakness is shooting from distance, but with LeBron and Rose on the floor together the defense would never be able to set itself up if those guys were moving.



The Nets arent a viable option.

Lopez is a fugzi, glorified David Lee.

Harris is MEH, ball dominant, no court vision, no shot.

The Nets are the WORST team in the NBA. Lebron isnt going there.

I dont care if they get John Wall who is good but isnt even in the same class as Rose.

LBJ23MJ
05-16-2010, 06:51 PM
Lebron played power forward for a team with Kobe, Wade, Paul, Williams, Carmelo

In no way shape or form will Lebron EVER accept a back to the basket, power forward type role in the NBA. NO WAY IN HELL

Playing the 4 in FIBA and playing the 4 in the NBA simply arent comparable positions. I hate to burst your bubble but no way in HELL does Lebron ever take a secondary ball handling role which forces him to play closer to the interior.

If he has refused to change for 7 seasons with the Cavs what will change things now?

Lebron is a ball dominant face up player, nothing more nothing less.

Do you like graphs?

http://www.basketballgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/picture-5.png

From the 2008 NBA season (and this is just one example), LeBron James's skill curve. Going from right to left, LeBron does less and less in the offense for the Cavs (signifying him picking his spots, more off-ball movement, less face-up isolation plays and dribble penetration, etc.), and going up on the graph is his offensive efficiency. It's pretty clear that LeBron taking a step back in the offense = more effectiveness as a player (there are some outliers of course that can skew the graph, but the general trend still holds). By the way, this phenomenon holds true for EVERY player in the league, regardless of season. It's one of the fundamental principles of basketball, and it's no different for LeBron.

I said it before and I'll say it again: it's a myth that LeBron can't dominate when he doesn't have to do as much for the Cavs offensively.

abraxas
05-16-2010, 07:36 PM
I agree with the thinking here that the media is over-rating Chicago. Noah is not all-star level, who wrote that? He played amazing against us but he's definitely not all-star level, might not even be in his career. There are a lot of holes on that team and the biggest one is their ownership/management.

Which brings me to my next point...that the media is under-rating our ownership and management. It might be the best in the league, if not top 3. Chicago, Miami, LA Clippers, NJ Nets, or Knicks aren't even in the top 10. None of them. No wonder they've been sucky teams (besides Miami's blip in 2006) for the past 5-10 yrs.

I.K.W.T
05-16-2010, 07:40 PM
Do you like graphs?

http://www.basketballgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/picture-5.png

From the 2008 NBA season (and this is just one example), LeBron James's skill curve. Going from right to left, LeBron does less and less in the offense for the Cavs (signifying him picking his spots, more off-ball movement, less face-up isolation plays and dribble penetration, etc.), and going up on the graph is his offensive efficiency. It's pretty clear that LeBron taking a step back in the offense = more effectiveness as a player (there are some outliers of course that can skew the graph, but the general trend still holds). By the way, this phenomenon holds true for EVERY player in the league, regardless of season. It's one of the fundamental principles of basketball, and it's no different for LeBron.

I said it before and I'll say it again: it's a myth that LeBron can't dominate when he doesn't have to do as much for the Cavs offensively.

Okay i'm sorry, but the "line of fit" does not even come close to the points of the graph. It does not model those points.

LBJ23MJ
05-16-2010, 07:56 PM
Okay i'm sorry, but the "line of fit" does not even come close to the points of the graph. It does not model those points.

Can you do better? The info and dataset for these graphs can be found here (http://www.basketballgeek.com/2009/02/17/basketball-on-papers-skill-curves/). They were inspired by Dean Oliver's research on the game -- the exact methods Dean used to extract the regression curve is unknown, but the main point was to get a general sense of the relationship between a player's efficiency and how much of his team's offense he carries; in this case LeBron James in 2008.

Several people at the APBRmetrics forum believe that at least that much has been accomplished (especially in comparison to Dean's graphs), but suggestions and improvements are always welcome.

jvpertz
05-16-2010, 08:00 PM
Do you like graphs?

http://www.basketballgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/picture-5.png

From the 2008 NBA season (and this is just one example), LeBron James's skill curve. Going from right to left, LeBron does less and less in the offense for the Cavs (signifying him picking his spots, more off-ball movement, less face-up isolation plays and dribble penetration, etc.), and going up on the graph is his offensive efficiency. It's pretty clear that LeBron taking a step back in the offense = more effectiveness as a player (there are some outliers of course that can skew the graph, but the general trend still holds). By the way, this phenomenon holds true for EVERY player in the league, regardless of season. It's one of the fundamental principles of basketball, and it's no different for LeBron.

I said it before and I'll say it again: it's a myth that LeBron can't dominate when he doesn't have to do as much for the Cavs offensively.


We are arguing around each other. What you say may be absolutely true.

I dont doubt that Lebron playing off the ball would be amazing. In fact, Ive been arguing for it for the better part of five years on here.

Ive said repeatedly that Lebron needs a back to the basket game that is NBA playoff battle tested. Go watch Jordan's playoff clips, on the block, rarely the primary ball carrier, and initiating a TON of offense from the lower block. All things that Lebron doesnt like to do.

You can say all day till you are blue in the face that Lebron-Rose or Lebron-Wade would be the sickest thing ever but unless Lebron ACCEPTS a scaled back ball control role, agrees to move more without the ball, agrees to post up more, agrees to play more with his back to the basket then you basically just have a souped up version of what we currently have with Mo Williams. Except, Wade and Rose cant shoot set shots off Lebron's creativity.

jvpertz
05-16-2010, 08:05 PM
I agree with the thinking here that the media is over-rating Chicago. Noah is not all-star level, who wrote that? He played amazing against us but he's definitely not all-star level, might not even be in his career. There are a lot of holes on that team and the biggest one is their ownership/management.

Which brings me to my next point...that the media is under-rating our ownership and management. It might be the best in the league, if not top 3. Chicago, Miami, LA Clippers, NJ Nets, or Knicks aren't even in the top 10. None of them. No wonder they've been sucky teams (besides Miami's blip in 2006) for the past 5-10 yrs.


Lets be real about Noah.

He played amazing against a beat up Varajeo, disinterested old man Shaq, and Jamison.

Change the front courts to Celtics, Lakers, and Magic, and that guy is fking drowning out there. And then it is back to Lebron and Rose rotating one on one dribble drives to mediocre shooters. And Lebron gets eliminated again. And we hear XYZ article from XYZ "NBA Analyst" saying that Lebron needs a real big man, lebron needs shooters, lebron needs to play on a team with depth, lebron needs to cut out the one on one play. BLAH BLAH BLAH

Lebron's best move it to legitimately commit here, get healthy, develop a serious back to the basket game, use our MLE on a real shooting guard like Ray Allen. And recruit Bosh through an S and T.

LBJ23MJ
05-16-2010, 08:08 PM
We are arguing around each other. What you say may be absolutely true.

I dont doubt that Lebron playing off the ball would be amazing. In fact, Ive been arguing for it for the better part of five years on here.

Ive said repeatedly that Lebron needs a back to the basket game that is NBA playoff battle tested. Go watch Jordan's playoff clips, on the block, rarely the primary ball carrier, and initiating a TON of offense from the lower block. All things that Lebron doesnt like to do.

You can say all day till you are blue in the face that Lebron-Rose or Lebron-Wade would be the sickest thing ever but unless Lebron ACCEPTS a scaled back ball control role, agrees to move more without the ball, agrees to post up more, agrees to play more with his back to the basket then you basically just have a souped up version of what we currently have with Mo Williams. Except, Wade and Rose cant shoot set shots off Lebron's creativity.

Well from the season that I posted, he's done JUST that when he has to. The problem is that players don't simply play off the ball just because they decide to. More often than not, LeBron has to dominate the offense because other players aren't making their own shots, plain and simple. When you can share the ball with another CONSISTENT star who has the ability to create his own offense (Wade in this case, i think Rose is a bit overrated), then you don't have that problem.

jvpertz
05-16-2010, 08:32 PM
Well from the season that I posted, he's done JUST that when he has to. The problem is that players don't simply play off the ball just because they decide to. More often than not, LeBron has to dominate the offense because other players aren't making their own shots, plain and simple. When you can share the ball with another CONSISTENT star who has the ability to create his own offense (Wade in this case, i think Rose is a bit overrated), then you don't have that problem.



Really, how many times did Lebron pass the ball to a teammate and become a spectator against the Celtics?


Go back and watch the games.

How many times did Lebron deliberately move off the ball on the weakside against the Celtics D?

Lebron was a SPECTATOR without the ball in his hands. No cuts, no off ball movement, no post ups, no real ability to play with his back to the basket, no desire to initiate near the elbow. NOTHING!!

Just a guy standing and watching at the perimeter waiting for a pass back so he can start his perimeter dribble drive.

Pair Lebron with any ball dominant superstar in the league and the situation is not going to get much better for Lebron until he decides to evolve his off ball skills.

LBJ23MJ
05-16-2010, 08:48 PM
Really, how many times did Lebron pass the ball to a teammate and become a spectator against the Celtics?


Go back and watch the games.

How many times did Lebron deliberately move off the ball on the weakside against the Celtics D?

Lebron was a SPECTATOR without the ball in his hands. No cuts, no off ball movement, no post ups, no real ability to play with his back to the basket, no desire to initiate near the elbow. NOTHING!!

Just a guy standing and watching at the perimeter waiting for a pass back so he can start his perimeter dribble drive.

Pair Lebron with any ball dominant superstar in the league and the situation is not going to get much better for Lebron until he decides to evolve his off ball skills.

If you are putting this series on LeBron's struggles offensively, you are sorely mistaken. Cleveland isn't winning jack when only ONE of the top 5 players in production in the series is a Cav (LeBron). Can't win when nobody else even shows the ability to step up and play. I don't think Celtics fans go and blame Rondo for losses for example if he doesn't play well, because they know that they have other guys that can take the ball and produce in the playoffs. Where's that "other guy" for Cleveland? Then our same fans get mad at LeBron for not beating teams and winning championships, one-on-five, in a TEAM SPORT. Really?

Yikes.

jonnybravo
05-16-2010, 09:11 PM
Lol at everyone saying how great a roster Chicago has. Prior to LeBron's free agency there wasn't one respectable writer willing to say that Deng, Hinrich or Gibson were more than mediocre NBA talent a best. Now they're being listed as part of the best core LeBron could play with? GTFO. Joke Noah is highly overrated, and possibly no better of a player than Anderson Varejao. The ONLY player that makes that Chicago team remotely attractive is Derrick Rose. Is that enough for LeBron to sign there long term? We'll see soon enough but I just don't buy it.

You're missing the point.

That's a .500 roster that gives up NOTHING to get Lebron. How many teams can say that?

abuC
05-16-2010, 09:58 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eWrfIU9jYc


Yeah, I can't see why LeBron would want to play in Chicago with that kind of player :rolleyes:

iEchoic
05-16-2010, 10:11 PM
Rea....lly...I'd love to hear that rationale.

Rationale: the Cavs would have just beaten the Celtics if Mo was Rose and Andy/Shaq was Noah.

A team with LBJ, Rose, and Noah would be absolutely head-and-shoulders above the 2009-2010 Cavs team, which we all believed had the talent to win a championship. Stop lying to yourselves. Noah basically plays the role of Andy, Rose is like a Mo Williams that doesn't suck, and the rest of the players did nothing in the playoffs.

Chris
05-16-2010, 10:12 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eWrfIU9jYc


Yeah, I can't see why LeBron would want to play in Chicago with that kind of player :rolleyes:

Rose is a good player but I could make a mix like that out of Mo Williams, or Boobie Gibson and make him look like a superstar.

Chris
05-16-2010, 10:13 PM
Rationale: the Cavs would have just beaten the Celtics if Mo was Rose and Shaq was Noah.

A team with LBJ, Rose, and Noah would be absolutely head-and-shoulders above the 2009-2010 Cavs team, which we all believed had the talent to win a championship. Stop lying to yourselves.

Hahahha...no.

Not saying it isn't his best place to go but it won't be an instant title contender, nope.

iEchoic
05-16-2010, 10:14 PM
Hahahha...no.

Not saying it isn't his best place to go but it won't be an instant title contender, nope.

Do you believe that Chicago with Rose, LBJ, and Noah would be worse than the 2009-2010 Cavs lineup?

jvpertz
05-16-2010, 10:15 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eWrfIU9jYc


Yeah, I can't see why LeBron would want to play in Chicago with that kind of player :rolleyes:

You could of just as easily posted a Dwayne Wade highlight reel. The problem still remains that everyone is trying to make the argument that Lebron will be OK playing off the ball. Again, show me the evidence that he will ever commit to doing such a thing at the NBA level and not in the FIBA game where he is surrounded by 11 other superstars.

No doubt Lebron Rose would be a sick pairing but Lebron would have to commit to doing something that he has never ever wanted to do, play with his back to the basket with the ball not in his hands a lot.

Chris
05-16-2010, 10:15 PM
Do you believe that Chicago with Rose, LBJ, and Noah would be worse than the 2009-2010 Cavs lineup?

You are talking about two different things. Is that lineup "better" on paper? Um...sure, maybe.

Does it win the Finals? Absolutely not in a million years. I'd stake my life on it.

abuC
05-16-2010, 10:16 PM
Rose is a good player but I could make a mix like that out of Mo Williams, or Boobie Gibson and make him look like a superstar.



The obvious difference is that Rose actually has the potential to be a superstar, where as no amount of editing in the world will make Mo or Gibson superstars.

Chris
05-16-2010, 10:18 PM
The obvious difference is that Rose actually has the potential to be a superstar, where as no amount of editing in the world will make Mo or Gibson superstars.

This is true but how amazing will Rose look playing next to LeBron where he doesn't have the ball all the time?

iEchoic
05-16-2010, 10:18 PM
Does it win the Finals? Absolutely not in a million years. I'd stake my life on it.

I happen to agree with you, because I think you need a strong big man (moreso than Noah) to win the finals. But guess what - Cleveland doesn't have that either (edit: anymore). I would peg LBJ on the Bulls as a higher chance to win than the current Cavs roster, even if both are improbable. Obviously what happens in the offseason remains to be seen but you're acting like the Bulls' roster is just a laughingstock compared to Cleveland's elite lineup of old geezers and playoff chokers.

abuC
05-16-2010, 10:22 PM
This is true but how amazing will Rose look playing next to LeBron where he doesn't have the ball all the time?

I'd probably guess a lot better than Mo Williams or Jamison look now.

Wulfgar1224
05-16-2010, 10:24 PM
You are talking about two different things. Is that lineup "better" on paper? Um...sure, maybe.

Does it win the Finals? Absolutely not in a million years. I'd stake my life on it.

The concern that I have about the Cavs is that they just don't have the pieces long-term. Jamison is getting old. Shaq and Z are on their last legs. Mo, Delonte, Boobie, Andy, Hickson. I don't think that's a championship core. If the Bulls add Lebron, they wouldn't be favored over Orlando or LA next season. But, I think that a Rose, LeBron, Noah core with role players surrounding it is enough to win titles long-term. It is certainly better that what the Cavs have going forward. The thing is that I don't think LeBron can go anywhere (cleveland included unless they can get a bosh or Stoudamire) where his team would be favored over the Magic or Lakers next season. So, the long-term future is what he needs to be looking at IMO.

KIisKing
05-16-2010, 10:30 PM
Rose and Lebron are two great players that are meant to be number one options on their teams. You dont make a Derrick Rose team better by putting ball dominant guys around him, you surround him with perimeter players. Like what we did with Lebron. We surrounded Lebron with his weakness, which would be the ability to shoot from the outside.

Your Mo and Jamison argument is stupid. We know they arent superstars and we dont expect them to score 20/10 every night. And neither does Lebron, which is why we won 60 games. Mo and Jamison are great 2nd and 3rd options it just it didnt work out.

Edit: Maybe we dont have the best long term pieces, but we didnt 3 years ago and look where we were after the trade deadline. Simple as that.

iEchoic
05-16-2010, 10:36 PM
And neither does Lebron, which is why we won 60 games. Mo and Jamison are great 2nd and 3rd options it just it didnt work out.

No, they aren't. Mo didn't work out because he blows in the playoffs every year. If you blow in the playoffs every year, you aren't a great 2nd or 3rd option. The problem isn't that Mo wasn't the right type of player, the problem is that he sucked. If you took Mo and made him not-suck, you'd have Derrick Rose.

Chris
05-16-2010, 10:37 PM
I'd probably guess a lot better than Mo Williams or Jamison look now.

Well they better, because that squad couldnt even beat the "old" Celtics, let alone the Magic.

abuC
05-16-2010, 10:37 PM
Rose and Lebron are two great players that are meant to be number one options on their teams. You dont make a Derrick Rose team better by putting ball dominant guys around him, you surround him with perimeter players. Like what we did with Lebron. We surrounded Lebron with his weakness, which would be the ability to shoot from the outside.

How exactly did surrounding a superstar with jumpshooters work out? Taking two supremely talented players and pairing them together is a much better prospect than having one guy that creates for everyone else. The offense would work itself out, there's no replacement for talent, or havent the last two playoff runs shown that?


Your Mo and Jamison argument is stupid. We know they arent superstars and we dont expect them to score 20/10 every night. And neither does Lebron, which is why we won 60 games. Mo and Jamison are great 2nd and 3rd options it just it didnt work out

Mo and Jamison are not great 2nd/3rd options, a great 2nd option is Pau a great 3rd option is Ray Allen. And I don't care about winning 60 games and flaming out in the playoffs, win a title.

KIisKing
05-16-2010, 10:39 PM
No, they aren't. Mo didn't work out because he blows in the playoffs every year. If you blow in the playoffs every year, you aren't a great 2nd or 3rd option. The problem isn't that Mo wasn't the right type of player, the problem is that he sucked.

So you think without Mo, Jamison, and Shaq arent the reason why we had the best record in the NBA and had home court advantage? Hmm. I agree that he hasnt been great in the playoffs but he did come through for us at times. A set offensive system would have also helped his production.

MoFlo
05-16-2010, 10:40 PM
I'd probably guess a lot better than Mo Williams or Jamison look now.

That's debatable. Rose doesn't have a consistent jump shot.

Granted, Mo & Jamison didn't towards the end, but they're mostly known for their ability to spread the floor, whereas Rose is not... in the least bit.

iEchoic
05-16-2010, 10:42 PM
So you think without Mo, Jamison, and Shaq arent the reason why we had the best record in the NBA and had home court advantage? Hmm. I agree that he hasnt been great in the playoffs but he did come through for us at times. A set offensive system would have also helped his production.

Mo is a fine regular season player. We're talking about championships, though, not the best record in the NBA. No matter how you slice it, Mo is not a second-option quality player.

Let's look at some second-option players:
- Pau Gasol
- Any given player from the Celtics' Big 3 (4)
- Nash/Amare (depending on who is dominating at the moment)

Do you think Mo Williams is even remotely good enough to be in this category? Like, even close? Mo is nowhere in the same league. He's not a second-option, broski.


That's debatable. Rose doesn't have a consistent jump shot.

Granted, Mo & Jamison didn't towards the end, but they're mostly known for their ability to spread the floor, whereas Rose is not... in the least bit.

Mo has a jumpshot on paper. If it never falls consistently in any playoff series, it doesn't exist. You try to qualify it with "towards the end", but the end is the only part that matters. This applies in large part to Jamison too but I don't want to go too hard on him because he hasn't had the time Mo has to adjust to the team and only had two series to show his skill.

Do you think the Mo's phantom ability to "space the floor" has had any effect in nearly any playoff series? No team respects his shot because his shot doesn't fall through the hoop. It doesn't exist.

KIisKing
05-16-2010, 10:47 PM
How exactly did surrounding a superstar with jumpshooters work out? Taking two supremely talented players and pairing them together is a much better prospect than having one guy that creates for everyone else. The offense would work itself out, there's no replacement for talent, or havent the last two playoff runs shown that?



Mo and Jamison are not great 2nd/3rd options, a great 2nd option is Pau a great 3rd option is Ray Allen. And I don't care about winning 60 games and flaming out in the playoffs, win a title.

We looked pretty damn good these last few years with jump shooters around Lebron. I guess you also didnt notice how many times Jamison worked of the dribble and created for himself. Mo and Delonte also did it.

2 years ago everyone said we needed to find someone that can create off the dribble and make jumpers. So we got Mo to replace the penetrating PG in Eric Snow. And now you guys are saying that is a great idea to put two guys together that are always heading towards the rim.

I understand. 2 allstars means straight to the finals. Oh I mean 2 allstars and a poor mans Andy. It worked great for the Mavs, Spurs, and Hawks.

jvpertz
05-16-2010, 10:47 PM
I'd probably guess a lot better than Mo Williams or Jamison look now.



I dont think it would be a title team but if Lebron really really elevated his play I could see them beating the Lakers.

But another part of me could just as easily seeing them being sort of devoid of chemsitry, having Rose and Lebron taking turns going one on one, and basically raw talenting their way to 60 plus wins and probably losing to LA or Boston and probably Orlando because of the terrible front court.

Heej
05-16-2010, 10:48 PM
Since when was Joakim Noah ever a poor man's Andy? He's a very, very rich man's Andy to be completely honest. But please, continue sipping that homer Kool-Aid.

iEchoic
05-16-2010, 10:49 PM
2 years ago everyone said we needed to find someone that can create off the dribble and make jumpers. So we got Mo

I don't think anyone is saying that's a fundamentally flawed strategy. Mo just doesn't have the skill. He's not a Rose-level player.

abuC
05-16-2010, 10:51 PM
That's debatable. Rose doesn't have a consistent jump shot.

Granted, Mo & Jamison didn't towards the end, but they're mostly known for their ability to spread the floor, whereas Rose is not... in the least bit.

Rose doesn't have a 3 point shot, don't confuse that with not having a consistent jumpshot, he's one of the best PGs in the NBA when it comes to mid-range jumpers.

jvpertz
05-16-2010, 10:52 PM
Mo is a fine regular season player. We're talking about championships, though, not the best record in the NBA. No matter how you slice it, Mo is not a second-option quality player.

Let's look at some second-option players:
- Pau Gasol
- Any given player from the Celtics' Big 3 (4)
- Nash/Amare (depending on who is dominating at the moment)

Do you think Mo Williams is even remotely good enough to be in this category? Like, even close? Mo is nowhere in the same league. He's not a second-option, broski.



Mo has a jumpshot on paper. If it never falls consistently in any playoff series, it doesn't exist. You try to qualify it with "towards the end", but the end is the only part that matters. This applies in large part to Jamison too but I don't want to go too hard on him because he hasn't had the time Mo has to adjust to the team and only had two series to show his skill.

Do you think the Mo's phantom ability to "space the floor" has had any effect in nearly any playoff series? No team respects his shot because his shot doesn't fall through the hoop. It doesn't exist.

Mo also didnt get very many good looks because Lebron wasnt playing a particularly great brand of basketball, the entire team was out of sync for the most part chemistry wise, and when Lebron didnt have the ball he just sort of stood and watched on the perimeter.

That isnt going to get it done for your teammates. Maybe it was the elbow or whatever but we could of done things better for Mo.

And lets not forget that Mo was the only good player on the court in game 6 unless you think Lebron's 10 turnover, horrible shooting game 6 was a winning performance.

And again we didnt even bother to properly integrate Jamison onto this team. We did the usual crap thing like we did to Shaq. Make a half hearted effort to get them the ball. Have everyone stand and fking watch like it is a carnival or something, and have them go one on five against a set defense.

Did we run any other kind offense for most of the Celtics series?

I love how the Cavs issues are ALWAYS personnel when we know we have a glorified defensive coordinator running the team.

KIisKing
05-16-2010, 10:54 PM
Mo is a fine regular season player. We're talking about championships, though, not the best record in the NBA. No matter how you slice it, Mo is not a second-option quality player.

Let's look at some second-option players:
- Pau Gasol
- Any given player from the Celtics' Big 3 (4)
- Nash/Amare (depending on who is dominating at the moment)

Do you think Mo Williams is even remotely good enough to be in this category? Like, even close? Mo is nowhere in the same league. He's not a second-option, broski.

.

I know Mo is not a 2nd option but the point you are proving is that combo of Lebron and Rose will be a winning one. I would rather have options such as Shaq, Mo, and Jamison than just a poor jump shooter in Derrick Rose.

Look at all the rest of those teams and you see a drop off in talent. After Amare/Nash you have what Dudley, crappy J-Rich, and Lopez. With the Celtics you have Perkins and a poor bench. And with the Lakers you have Bynum, Artest, and Fisher along with a shitty bench.

A team is not made up of 2 guys, its made up of 15. Deep teams win. We should have won but we fall apart at the worst possible time.

iEchoic
05-16-2010, 10:54 PM
Mo also didnt get very many good looks because Lebron wasnt playing a particularly great brand of basketball, the entire team was out of sync for the most part chemistry wise, and when Lebron didnt have the ball he just sort of stood and watched on the perimeter.

How does that explain the Chicago series? The Orlando series last year?


Look at all the rest of those teams and you see a drop off in talent. After Amare/Nash you have what Dudley, crappy J-Rich, and Lopez. With the Celtics you have Perkins and a poor bench. And with the Lakers you have Bynum, Artest, and Fisher along with a shitty bench.

A team is not made up of 2 guys, its made up of 15. Deep teams win. We should have won but we fall apart at the worst possible time.

All I have to say is this is a really strange argument considering you just listed 3/4 teams that are remaining in the playoffs and one team that won the playoffs last year :confused:

abuC
05-16-2010, 10:55 PM
We looked pretty damn good these last few years with jump shooters around Lebron. I guess you also didnt notice how many times Jamison worked of the dribble and created for himself. Mo and Delonte also did it.

2 years ago everyone said we needed to find someone that can create off the dribble and make jumpers. So we got Mo to replace the penetrating PG in Eric Snow. And now you guys are saying that is a great idea to put two guys together that are always heading towards the rim.

I understand. 2 allstars means straight to the finals. Oh I mean 2 allstars and a poor mans Andy. It worked great for the Mavs, Spurs, and Hawks.

Where are the championships, it worked pretty well in the regular season and didn't work at all in the playoffs.

Mo can't create off the dribble like Rose can, neither can Jamison or Delonte, Rose is elite when it comes to his ability to break people down.

jvpertz
05-16-2010, 10:58 PM
I don't think anyone is saying that's a fundamentally flawed strategy. Mo just doesn't have the skill. He's not a Rose-level player.



Sure he isnt a Rose level player. But it is about getting the right personnel together and finding players that augment one anothers talents.

I cant recall one single NBA champion whose two best players were streak shooting ball dominant guard-forwards? Can anyone?

Not Duncan's Spurs

Not Billups' Pistons

Not Wade's Heat

Not Kobe's Lakers

Not Kobe Shaq's Lakers

Not Jordan Pippen

Not Hakeem's Rockets

Not Isiah's Pistons

Not Magic's Lakers

Not Larry's Celtics

Find me one recent NBA champion that featured a WEAK, DEPTH-Deprived front court, two superstar ball dominant guard-forwards

Im telling you, going to the Bulls is like changing one set of problems for another. There is no mountaintop there.

iEchoic
05-16-2010, 11:01 PM
I cant recall one single NBA champion whose two best players were streak shooting ball dominant guard-forwards? Can anyone?

Not Jordan Pippen

Uh, why not? You sound like you're just adding a ton of qualifiers to disqualify every single team.

The Jordan Bulls weren't known for their tremendous frontcourt, especially in an era with DRob, Hakeem, Ewing, etc (referring more to centers).

KIisKing
05-16-2010, 11:02 PM
How does that explain the Chicago series? The Orlando series last year?



All I have to say is this is a really strange argument considering you just listed 3/4 teams that are remaining in the playoffs and one team that won the playoffs last year :confused:

I also listed 3-4 teams with superstars that played and coaches that know what they are doing. Lebron didnt play. Mike Brown didnt coach.

abuC you are missing my point. Yes, Rose is a great player Im not denying it. Im also not denying that he is better than Mo. The point is, after Rose the Bulls have nothing. Streaky Hinrich. Average rookie. And Noah. Not to mention a bench that is non existent. After Lebron we have guys that fit his style of play such Jamison, JJ, Mo, Delonte, Parker, and Moon. These guys arent great but these are the guys Lebron wanted.

And if you think we arent going to try and add better pieces over the summer then you would be kidding yourself.

iEchoic
05-16-2010, 11:04 PM
And if you think we arent going to try and add better pieces over the summer then you would be kidding yourself.

It's definitely a possibility that the Cavs pick up someone big and become the most attractive option. It's possible the Bulls do as well and become even more attractive. All I want is for people to stop acting like Cleveland is a more appealing destination than Chicago right now (and even acting like entertaining the idea that Rose/Noah is better than Mo/Jamison is outrageous).

abuC
05-16-2010, 11:07 PM
I also listed 3-4 teams with superstars that played and coaches that know what they are doing. Lebron didnt play. Mike Brown didnt coach.

abuC you are missing my point. Yes, Rose is a great player Im not denying it. Im also not denying that he is better than Mo. The point is, after Rose the Bulls have nothing. Streaky Hinrich. Average rookie. And Noah. Not to mention a bench that is non existent. After Lebron we have guys that fit his style of play such Jamison, JJ, Mo, Delonte, Parker, and Moon. These guys arent great but these are the guys Lebron wanted.

And if you think we arent going to try and add better pieces over the summer then you would be kidding yourself.



I like how the Bulls players are marginalized, yet you type out the Cavs like it's some glowing list of great players. Im sorry, but I'd rather have Noah and Rose over Jamison, JJ, Mo, Delonte, Parker and Moon. It's a lot easier to find another Jamison or Mo than it is to find someone like Rose.

How exactly are they going to add pieces?

KIisKing
05-16-2010, 11:12 PM
Ferry and Co always find ways to add pieces to the puzzle.

I never marginalized Bulls players. Noah and Rose just dont fit Lebrons style of play like Jamison and co do. Rose drives the lane and Noah is a guy who works around the basket. They both dont have jumpshots.

Heej
05-16-2010, 11:14 PM
Sure he isnt a Rose level player. But it is about getting the right personnel together and finding players that augment one anothers talents.

I cant recall one single NBA champion whose two best players were streak shooting ball dominant guard-forwards? Can anyone?

Not Duncan's Spurs

Not Billups' Pistons

Not Wade's Heat

Not Kobe's Lakers

Not Kobe Shaq's Lakers

Not Jordan Pippen

Not Hakeem's Rockets

Not Isiah's Pistons

Not Magic's Lakers

Not Larry's Celtics

Find me one recent NBA champion that featured a WEAK, DEPTH-Deprived front court, two superstar ball dominant guard-forwards

Im telling you, going to the Bulls is like changing one set of problems for another. There is no mountaintop there.

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n205/YamaChwan/15dq2qrjpg.gif

Michael may have the best midrange game of all time, but even he had his hot and cold streaks. He was also one of the most ball-dominant players of his generation, and when it wasn't him handling the ball it was Pippen, not Steve Kerr or John Paxson, that's for damn sure. And Pippen's midrange jumper wasn't completely consistent either. It's not nearly as bad as Lebron and Rose, but you could definitely have a more consistent jumpshooting Guard-Forward ball-dominant duo.

Wulfgar1224
05-16-2010, 11:14 PM
I like how the Bulls players are marginalized, yet you type out the Cavs like it's some glowing list of great players. Im sorry, but I'd rather have Noah and Rose over Jamison, JJ, Mo, Delonte, Parker and Moon. It's a lot easier to find another Jamison or Mo than it is to find someone like Rose.

How exactly are they going to add pieces?

Unfortunately, that is the problem that the Cavs have. They can't really add talent in the draft due to their end of round positioning. Even with LBJ, the Cavs have not had great success getting FAs to come here. FAs normally chase the money. Their only option is to keep flipping expirings for veterans players. Although the Jamison, Shaq, and Williams trades were all lopsided in the Cavs favor, they haven't succeeded in bringing a title.

iEchoic
05-16-2010, 11:14 PM
I never marginalized Bulls players. Noah and Rose just dont fit Lebrons style of play like Jamison and co do. Rose drives the lane and Noah is a guy who works around the basket. They both dont have jumpshots.

a) Andy doesn't have a jumpshot either but Andy + LBJ is Cleveland's highest +/- duo. Given, he does roam, but I don't see it much more than Noah
b) Rose has an equal to better jumpshot than Mo inside the 3pt line, and actually makes the basketball in the playoffs
c) Just because you can throw a ball and miss it does not mean you "have a jumpshot".

Czvosec
05-16-2010, 11:26 PM
Uh, why not? You sound like you're just adding a ton of qualifiers to disqualify every single team.

The Jordan Bulls weren't known for their tremendous frontcourt, especially in an era with DRob, Hakeem, Ewing, etc (referring more to centers).


Really? Scottie is one of the NBA's 50 greatest players, and was probably the most versatile player on that team.

Dennis Rodman was arguably the greatest rebounding PF of all time, as well as a fantastic defensive players. What he lacked in offense he more than made up for in rebounding/defense.

Luc Longley wasn't great by any means, but he didn't take anything off the table either. He played solid defense, and finished easy shots. He always played within his own game.

If you want to go back to Jordan's first three-peat... Horace Grant was a fantastic PF, and Bill Cartwright was, as Phil and Jordan have said themselves, a very, very good defensive player.

Jordan was great, obviously, but they had amazing frontcourts on both three-peat teams.

KIisKing
05-16-2010, 11:30 PM
a) Andy doesn't have a jumpshot either but Andy + LBJ is Cleveland's highest +/- duo. Given, he does roam, but I don't see it much more than Noah
b) Rose has an equal to better jumpshot than Mo inside the 3pt line, and actually makes the basketball in the playoffs
c) Just because you can throw a ball and miss it does not mean you "have a jumpshot".

Mo is known to be a jump shooter, you know that. Mo is a spot up shooter. Rose on the other hand isnt going to be a guy who just stands around waiting for a ball.

Rose, outside of CP3 is the best young point guard in the NBA. Hes outstanding. Rose wants the ball. Lebron wants the ball. It will be hard for them to gel together if they both want to drive and dominant the ball every play. The same thing to an extent happened with Lebron and Shaq. Both great players that demand a lot of touches.

I just dont see how 2 players like them on the same team would be able to function if both their strengths and weaknesses are the same. This is why there is not a lot of superstar combination in the NBA. If any actually.

If Lebron goes to Chicago, well shit, but theres no point in arguing about something that we have no proof of at the moment.

kevinoc0
05-16-2010, 11:38 PM
The situation in Chicago is far from perfect and doesn't even come close to guaranteeing titles. Imagine if LeBron failed in CHICAGO; what if he failed to deliver what MJ once did? LeBron's legacy would be tarnished beyond belief.

This is what I've been telling people for the past 4 days. For LeBron to go to the House that Jordan Built to only (potentially) fail in the clutch would completely destroy any chance at being a "great" that he has. Because of Jordan, Bulls fans will demand their superstar to perform in the clutch, so if LBJ ended up "choking" there he would be completely destroyed. While Cleveland fans expect greatness, (most) of us are willing to let bygones be bygones if he stays. Chicago fans already had a clutch player, so they would have free range to eat him alive.

On a side not, let's not forget how die-hard Chicago fans are:

http://up-nights.com/images-russ/Hated-fan02.jpg


As many as six police cars gathered outside his home to protect Bartman and his family following the incident. Afterwards, then-Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich suggested that Bartman join a witness protection program, while then-Florida Governor Jeb Bush offered Bartman asylum.

Management aside, I honestly cannot see how LeBron would end up in Chicago.

Mdog1
05-17-2010, 01:17 AM
Mo is known to be a jump shooter, you know that. Mo is a spot up shooter. Rose on the other hand isnt going to be a guy who just stands around waiting for a ball.

Rose, outside of CP3 is the best young point guard in the NBA. Hes outstanding. Rose wants the ball. Lebron wants the ball. It will be hard for them to gel together if they both want to drive and dominant the ball every play. The same thing to an extent happened with Lebron and Shaq. Both great players that demand a lot of touches.

I just dont see how 2 players like them on the same team would be able to function if both their strengths and weaknesses are the same. This is why there is not a lot of superstar combination in the NBA. If any actually.

If Lebron goes to Chicago, well shit, but theres no point in arguing about something that we have no proof of at the moment.

Rose is a good shooter from inside the 3pt line. With LeBron, Rose could be a spot up shooter at times and at other times get his offense going to the basket. LeBron and Rose could make it work easily.

KCOTT
05-17-2010, 01:21 AM
those saying rose and james will have a hard time playing with each other because they are "ball dominant" are in some serious denial

Mdog1
05-17-2010, 01:32 AM
those saying rose and james will have a hard time playing with each other because they are "ball dominant" are in some serious denial

Agreed.

Photon
05-17-2010, 11:30 AM
Agreed.

+1 LBJ shoots good when he is set.. Rose=LBJ getting the ball in the right place.

Jon
05-17-2010, 07:45 PM
Unfortunately it doesn't matter what will work, it only matters what LeBron thinks will work.

Personally, I think he does need to play with someone else who can handle the ball, drive, score, and dish and yes, he'd have to adapt his game.

There are also certain advantages to having a traditional big & small when running P&R. For instance, against Boston when we'd run Mo & LeBron in a P&R, Boston could switch and we'd end up with Rondo on LeBron, and Pierce on Mo. That's not really much of an advantage for either player because LeBron always draws an elite mid-sized defender who typically can cover smaller guys as well. Plus Lebron doesn't draw a big out of the paint, so in this example, KG and Perkins would still be hovering nearby to offer help even if Mo could slide past Pierce.