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ericerau
11-15-2010, 09:06 AM
Everyone knows that SF is our week spot. Combined, Jawad Williams and Moon, they average a little over 44 minutes a game. Some of the other combined stats per game really surprised me at how bad they are.

FT Attemps: 0.9
Rebounds: 6.1
Points: 11.2
FG %: about 36

There are 240 minutes of playing time a game, and that is what 44 minutes (almost 25%) of playing time produces. I really like both these guys, but I expected more. I figured Moon could get about 12 a game, Williams 6.

Can Joey Graham play SF? The only time I saw him get any real PT was when Antawn was out. It seems like at some point there really isn't much risk in trying someone else at SF (not starting, just off the bench).

I looked at the SF FA list, not much there either (Pavlovic, Adam Morrison, etc)

nime
11-15-2010, 09:19 AM
The Cavs could start Parker at the 3 and bring Moon off the bench. Then not play Jawad at all.
Start Sessions or Boobie at the 2 with Mo. Bring Harris off the bench with Sessions or Boobie.

So,
Mo, Sessions, Parker, Hickson, AV start

Gibson, Harris, Moon, Jamison, Hollins

sjeppe
11-15-2010, 09:59 AM
I agree with playing graham more, the two games he had signifcant palying time i like what i saw. He can't do any worse they who we have playing.

BigErieCavsFan
11-15-2010, 10:12 AM
For now, we should just play Graham instead of coldwad...

speedyd718
11-15-2010, 01:15 PM
I looked at the SF FA list, not much there either (Pavlovic, Adam Morrison, etc)

joe alexander was just released by hornets. wasn't on our summer league squad?

WhoWeAre
11-15-2010, 01:17 PM
We should continue to give Graham minutes, and if he does well, let him start. I think Moon is much better in a role coming off the bench than he is starting.

And then finish games with whichever player is hotter that night.

The Voice
11-15-2010, 01:29 PM
Part of the problem is Jawad is playing and not Graham. Graham might not be the best scorer, but he doesn't have to be. He's light years ahead of Jawad on defense and he has a mid range stroke.

JAY1977
11-15-2010, 01:53 PM
Part of the problem is Jawad is playing and not Graham. Graham might not be the best scorer, but he doesn't have to be. He's light years ahead of Jawad on defense and he has a mid range stroke.

I agree if there is not alot of scoring regardless coming from any of the players there at least needs to be better defense at the position. Graham sounds like the best option available.

NarlCavs
11-15-2010, 02:37 PM
Answer at SF isn't currently on the roster. Moon, Jawad, and Graham are all average backups at best. I wouldn't expect any long term answer or big time quality scoring SF to be acquired this season. You just suck it up for now and try to get by with SF by committee with what you have now. No sense adding a big salary for a player who's only somewhat of a short term answer and who isn't going to make much difference in the Cavs success both now and long term. SF is a big problem on the roster but we knew it would be going into the season. Options to fill that spot were seriously limited by the time the previous occupant of that position decided to inform everyone he was leaving well after the draft and after the first week of free agency when all the top players had already decided where to sign.

If a young player becomes available and the cost to get him is reasonable than you check that out and pursue it.

ericerau
11-15-2010, 02:59 PM
Answer at SF isn't currently on the roster. Moon, Jawad, and Graham are all average backups at best. I wouldn't expect any long term answer or big time quality scoring SF to be acquired this season. You just suck it up for now and try to get by with SF by committee with what you have now. No sense adding a big salary for a player who's only somewhat of a short term answer and who isn't going to make much difference in the Cavs success both now and long term. SF is a big problem on the roster but we knew it would be going into the season. Options to fill that spot were seriously limited by the time the previous occupant of that position decided to inform everyone he was leaving well after the draft and after the first week of free agency when all the top players had already decided where to sign.

If a young player becomes available and the cost to get him is reasonable than you check that out and pursue it.

I agree that the answer isn't on the team. But I'd like to see Scott try to get a little creative to help hide the flaw better. I realize it's still early, but after about 10-15 games of low production, I hope he considers making a tweak. I'm not sure how much it will help or hurt, but at some point why not try something.

ericerau
11-15-2010, 03:05 PM
Does anyone know what Adam Morrison is doing? Not that he's a solution or anything. I just saw his name listed on a FA agent list as was wondering if it was up to date or not. I was so surprised to see he wasn't signed with anyone. Did he want more money than he was worth? Or is he just done.

I am not suggesting we sign him....just wondering...

ohiorulez
11-15-2010, 03:56 PM
maybe we can look into getting Thadeus Young or Corey Brewer.. cheap...

MannyFresh6
11-15-2010, 03:58 PM
I would like the idea of starting Parker at the 3, and maybe starting Boobie at the 2, only problem with that is we are giving up a lot of size. I would suggest starting Manny at the 2, but I think he may need to get more minutes first. Moon would provide nice energy off the bench for us...I'm still not sold on Joey Graham

Bob_The_Cat
11-15-2010, 05:13 PM
Does anyone know what Adam Morrison is doing? Not that he's a solution or anything. I just saw his name listed on a FA agent list as was wondering if it was up to date or not. I was so surprised to see he wasn't signed with anyone. Did he want more money than he was worth? Or is he just done.

I am not suggesting we sign him....just wondering...


If Dan Gilbert is really serious about winning a ring before the Heat, we must sign Morrison immediately. Dude does nothing but win championships. lol

gregdawg
11-15-2010, 05:51 PM
unfortnately there is really no good solution to the roster problems - it is just a weak roster plain and simple. moving Parker to SF and starting Boobie at SG would result in an extremely undersized lineup that would get bullied night in and night out. besides, parker isn't that much of an improvement over Moon either - he's a better shooter, but he can't really dribble either - so he creates some of the same problems that Moon does.

the only good ball handlers we have (Mo, Sessions, Boobie) are all extremely undersized. it would be great if Boobie were taller or if Parker, Jawad, Graham, or Moon could dribble, but that's not the case. There's something lacking in a lot of our players (whether it be size, or dribbling ability)...the only solution is to play the waiting game until the team can acquire better SG's and SF's. the main problem is that none of our medium sized players can handle the ball.

Cavatt
11-15-2010, 05:54 PM
Does anyone think that maybe the players are out of position for rebounds? It seems like our forwards are always on the wings, and Jamario is supposed to be a better rebounder than this. I wish these two sf's would at least get some rebounds especially since they aren't scoring.

Simon
11-15-2010, 05:58 PM
What I don't understand is the love affair between Byron Scott and Jawad Williams. Jawad has sucked so far, and Scott hasn't really notice that yet.

Rob822
11-15-2010, 06:09 PM
Shout out to Chris Grant. I know it ain't easy but we desperatly need someone to score from the three. Moon and Jawad have been exposed! Time to look at a trade. Here's a few names I've heard in rumors recently. Gerald Wallace, Jason Thompson, Mo Pete and Caron Butler.

Bob_The_Cat
11-15-2010, 06:28 PM
Shout out to Chris Grant. I know it ain't easy but we desperatly need someone to score from the three. Moon and Jawad have been exposed! Time to look at a trade. Here's a few names I've heard in rumors recently. Gerald Wallace, Jason Thompson, Mo Pete and Caron Butler.

I would LOOOOOVE Gerald Wallace if he is available. Still 28. Extremely versatile. Good defender. Can do many different things on the court. Not really sure what it would take to get him, but a front line of Andy, JJ, and Wallace would be pretty sweet and would give people problems defensively.

CPK
11-15-2010, 06:40 PM
Shout out to Chris Grant. I know it ain't easy but we desperatly need someone to score from the three. Moon and Jawad have been exposed! Time to look at a trade. Here's a few names I've heard in rumors recently. Gerald Wallace, Jason Thompson, Mo Pete and Caron Butler.

Source on that? Best I could find was: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/10/27/1789304/will-bobcats-reshuffling.html

And Jordan basically says he likes their current core and wants to see it play out.

Simon
11-15-2010, 07:08 PM
I wouldn't mind Mo Peterson. He isn't getting any minutes in OKC. Jawad + part of trade exception ($2 mill) for Mo Peterson.
And, OKC can cut Jawad if they wanted too.

Evancook
11-15-2010, 07:11 PM
lol @ us getting Gerald Wallace.
Look at younger,cheaper guys.
Thaddeus Young,Jared Dudley,Buddinger,Wilson Chandler* are guys we should be looking at

*Knicks aren't planning on extending him because they're going to have just enough room for a max contract this offseason.The guys got game but i could honestly see them dumping him at the deadline for some 30-40 range 2nd round picks just because they won't add salary.Not that i'm saying we're the perfect team to make that transaction,but they're not extending any of their FA's this summer if Melo looks like a sure thing.

mAo_mAo
11-15-2010, 09:02 PM
I really don't like how B Scott continues to play Jawad. He is a waste of minutes. Give Joey Graham some playing time. He is quicker than Jawad and has more strength than J Moon. He can be our best defender at the wing position. At the offensive end, from what I saw from him when he played was that he does not force anything unlike Jawad and can decently create off the dribble unlike J Moon. The difference is that Graham can not consistently hit that 3 point shot but those two does not shoot it well either. I just don't get it.

SuperSurge
11-15-2010, 09:17 PM
Watching Jawad play makes me throw up a little in my mouth...

QuadrupleDouble
11-15-2010, 09:55 PM
We should have let Miami sign him;)

I would have been pissed if he would have went there though. We had to sign him just to spite Lebron's recruitment

OptimusPrime
11-15-2010, 10:41 PM
Moon is a pretty good rebounder, but I think he is trying to get out early and run before we have the ball. He needs to crash the defensive glass. We desperately need a 3 that is an offensive threat though. Teams are crowding Boobie now. If we have another threat out there with him, especially one that can attack the rim, it would open things back up for him.

QuadrupleDouble
11-15-2010, 10:50 PM
I know Mo hasn't been able to play much and this has had an affect on our starting lineup, but we have one of the worst starting lineups in the league right now.

We happen to have one of the best benches in the league, which is helping us to stay somewhat competitive. A new SF could help our starting lineup significantly, but what decent player could be had for our TPE? I'm not sure I want to give anyone wothwhile up for competitive reasons, but it is clear we need some help from the wings.

I want to add someone without losing our punch off the bench. That means not trading Jamison right now. I think we could be pretty solid (no not championship contender, but solid) if we just added someone decent on the wing to shore up our starting lineup to go along with our strong bench.

If it doesn't pan out, that's when we blow up the team a little at the trade deadline. In the meantime, what worthwhile wing, not a world beater, could be had for as little as our TPE?

oasis05
11-15-2010, 10:59 PM
I think people looking at the small forward position are falling for the headfake. The real issue is there is no top option. Moon, and parker are designed to be low usage players. They are out there to complement the top players in the league, and the cavaliers have none and that is exasperating the need for a productive wing that won't solve anything. I remain on the look out for another big man that can slide varejao down to his natural position, and take some of the offensive load, and i think the best one that has been talked about who i really liked and may actually be available is thompson from the kings. Thompson/varejao/hickson can all play together, we'd be a bit undersized, but we'd be developing and up and coming all over your mouth.

Once we've filled the need for another scorer in the front court cutting ties with jamison should be easy, and manny harris has looked ready to take some minutes at the wings and i don't think we'll look so old, and unskilled. I'm not worried about wins this year, it's all about player developement, and eventually realizing that developement either through trade or exceeding the hype and becoming the star.

mAo_mAo
11-15-2010, 11:39 PM
When thinking about our SF problems two players that is being unused by their teams always comes to my mind and they are Earl Clark and Donte Greene. I think we can nab those two without giving up too much. Earl Clark IMO can be had with cash and 2nd rounder while Donte can be paired with a bad contract like that of Garcia.

OptimusPrime
11-16-2010, 12:01 AM
Well, we could probably get Tayshaun Prince for almost nothing. He would definitely make us better, and he is an expiring contract. I don't think he would be a great fit offensively though.

Man Called X
11-16-2010, 01:04 AM
lol @ us getting Gerald Wallace.
Look at younger,cheaper guys.
Thaddeus Young,Jared Dudley,Buddinger,Wilson Chandler* are guys we should be looking at

*Knicks aren't planning on extending him because they're going to have just enough room for a max contract this offseason.The guys got game but i could honestly see them dumping him at the deadline for some 30-40 range 2nd round picks just because they won't add salary.Not that i'm saying we're the perfect team to make that transaction,but they're not extending any of their FA's this summer if Melo looks like a sure thing.

If there's way to steal Wilson Chandler away, I think you absolutely have to do it.

Green Lantern
11-16-2010, 08:17 AM
Interesting,not too long ago many were just lauding Williams.
I was curious as to why,when I saw him,I just saw a 6-8 SF who looks like a run of the mill player,nothing special.
Never really saw him get hot and knock down shot after shot.
Now that he's being forced to play as are others,the lack of overal talent really surfaces.

CBBI
11-16-2010, 11:18 AM
I would like the idea of starting Parker at the 3, and maybe starting Boobie at the 2, only problem with that is we are giving up a lot of size. I would suggest starting Manny at the 2, but I think he may need to get more minutes first. Moon would provide nice energy off the bench for us...I'm still not sold on Joey Graham

What happens when the Cavaliers do that is any team that has size on the wings kicks the shit out of the Cavaliers in the half court.

See the Atlanta and Indiana losses where poor Boobie was matched up against Marvin Williams and Mike Dunleavy Jr at various points in crunch time. Those guys scored on him easily due to the sheer size difference. Good teams are just going to exploit those mismatches every time. There are going to be some teams where the Cavs can get away with a Mo/Boobie, Mo/Sessions, Sessions/Boobie backcourt down the stretch, like Washington and Philadelphia, but other times it's just not going to work at all.

mAo_mAo
11-16-2010, 11:47 AM
What happens when the Cavaliers do that is any team that has size on the wings kicks the shit out of the Cavaliers in the half court.

See the Atlanta and Indiana losses where poor Boobie was matched up against Marvin Williams and Mike Dunleavy Jr at various points in crunch time. Those guys scored on him easily due to the sheer size difference. Good teams are just going to exploit those mismatches every time. There are going to be some teams where the Cavs can get away with a Mo/Boobie, Mo/Sessions, Sessions/Boobie backcourt down the stretch, like Washington and Philadelphia, but other times it's just not going to work at all.

That's why I really think we should trade one of our guards with a young wing and a serviceable center. I love Mo but I think he should go before he suffers a season ending injury.

NarlCavs
11-16-2010, 03:05 PM
Still think the Cavs are going to have to just suck it up and get through this season with what they have at SF. Any decent SF possibly available who also have a good sized contract isn't worth trading for and won't make a major difference toward any serious success.
We have average backups at SF who are better suited to play off other players with more ability. You hope many nights one of them steps up enough to provide some decent production. Unfortunately so far that hasn't happened.

I was never a big fan of Jawad but going to Graham over him isn't really a much better solution. Seems Jawad is getting the minutes because he possesses the ability to help stretch the floor and a possible perimeter shooting option. Graham is not a perimeter shooter and has limited range.

If there's a decent young SF option who becomes available than the Cavs can go after him. Otherwise we'll have to suffer this season with what we have. Still have to think long term over short term and avoid getting stuck with bad overpriced long term contracts.

CBBI
11-16-2010, 03:19 PM
Still think the Cavs are going to have to just suck it up and get through this season with what they have at SF. Any decent SF possibly available who also have a good sized contract isn't worth trading for and won't make a major difference toward any serious success.

Thank you.

The last thing the Cavaliers need to do at this point is add a high priced veteran small forward in a futile attempt to win more games. This team doesn't have a great chance of making the playoffs and has a virtually non-existent chance at getting out of the first round. Thankfully, I think Chris Grant has a good head on his shoulders and while Mr. Gilbert might think he owes it to the fans to go for it, I think Grant knows the smart thing to do is to ride this thing out and make smart decisions towards the future.

SmallStone
11-16-2010, 04:17 PM
EDIT: After watching JJ get torched by Thaddeus Young on multiple occasions tonight, I retract my post.

I may be alone here and I know he doesn't have an outside shot yet, but anyone else want to see what Hickson can do at SF? Right now it looks like the Cavs aren't going to win a ton anyway, so why not give it a look? It could create some interesting matchup advantages for us on both sides of the floor. I think JJ has the lateral quickness to stick with most SFs on the wing and on offense I think he has the skills and athleticism to go against SFs and PFs. If you put him out there with Mo and AP or Boobie and AP you can make up for his lack of perimeter shooting. The only issue I would see is who starts for us at the 4, because Jamison just isn't capable of guarding starting 3s or 4s anymore. Maybe a 9 man like this could work:

Williams / Sessions / Gibson
Parker / Gibson / Moon
Hickson / Moon / Parker
Varejao / Jamison / Hickson
Hollins / Varejao

You could have Hickson play about 20 mpg at the 3 (if it works) and he and Andy could split half the time at the 4 with Jamison playing the other half of those minutes. But then you've got Hollins starting at center and playing 26 mpg which is probably a recipe for disaster.

eighter08
11-16-2010, 04:20 PM
Seems like Jeff Green could be had from OKC, he has been hurt and his position is a strength on that team.
What about Green,Mo Pete and N Krstic for Andy and Twan.
I would rather have a young big back like Mullins but that doesn't work money wise unless the TPE could be used.

Jon
11-16-2010, 05:10 PM
Jeff Green is what JJ would be if we tried to turn him in to SF/PF tweener. No thanks.

hartwill
11-16-2010, 06:33 PM
I don't think the Cavs can't do much with the small forward position until close to the trade deadline. That's when teams are in distress and willing to deal. Perhaps, we can make our traded player exception work for us at that time.

As we know, the current options available on the team are just a "patch on the tire". Jawad can score a little bit, defend a little bit but he has not shown enough to indicate that he is a long term option or a starter. Jamario is an athletic player who can hit a 3-pointer now and then; hit a mid-range jumper now and then and wow us with a slam dunk now and then. But, his skill-set is limited. I was a recent game were he had what I thought was a sure break away basket. Unfortunately, he dribbled the ball out of bounds. So much for the potential dunk. This speaks to his ball handling ability which is markedly subpar. He should be a slasher with his quickness and athletic ability but he doesn't handle the ball well enough to get to the hoop. I like him as a nice energy guy off the bench but he is miscast as a starter. Joey Graham recently had a nice game against Philly where he scored 10 points in 8 minutes, as I recall. The next night he got some minutes as a result and the Cavs got nothing. From reading comments in forums in Denver and Toronto, this has been his history. Even Wayne Embry was quoted as saying he would like to see more passion from Graham and he is big supporter of Joey. No reason to believe that he has changed here in Cleveland...even though this was a great opportunity for him to jump start his career. Too bad because he is an ahtletic guy and one of the strongest players on the team at 6'7" and 235 lbs. His ball handling is also suspect so he too is not the slasher he could be. But I do remember Windhorst commenting that Graham was one the defenders in the league who gave LeBron the most trouble.

Joey can hit a mid range jump shot fairly consistently and defend well when he brings intensity to the table. He is also a pretty good rebounder. If he could just do those 3 things consistently (hit the mid range jumper, defend with intensity and rebound), I would be thrilled. The question is will he or can he do that.

ericerau
11-17-2010, 08:33 AM
I think Byron Scott read my thread yesterday. Joey Graham got some PT and did well. I'm glad I could help coach Scott.

To test my theory, I'm starting a thread called "Start Christian Eyanga". If he starts in NO this weekend, god help us.

Jon
11-17-2010, 12:39 PM
Coaches just move slower on things than some fans would like. It's nothing new, and it's not going to change. At some point Christian will get a chance, but since we're not able to see what he's doing in practice - we can't even guess when that might be.

On the flip side, Coach stuck with Jamario and he came through with a nice game - which just demonstrates you just don't know when things will click for a player, let alone whether they'll stay clicked.

Manny got a shot, but didn't make much of it.

There's no silver bullet ... it takes patience.

NarlCavs
11-17-2010, 03:12 PM
Nice to see both Moon and Graham step up last night. The key is trying to get some type of consistency from the collection of SF's the Cavs have and that's going to be hard to do. None have a history of quality consistent production in their careers. We have to hope at least one comes through each game.
Moon at least brings the most in the key areas needed from a SF compared to Graham and Jawad. I have no problem keeping Graham ahead of Jawad in the rotation even with his limited perimeter game.
By the way I don't know where Fred McLeod got his info during last night's game to claim that Graham was a career 42% 3 point shooter. He's at 30% and has only made 46 for his career.

MannyFresh6
11-17-2010, 04:21 PM
We need somebody at the SF. I like the way Moon has played this year, and the way Graham has stepped in nicely (especially last night against Philly). But let's face it, we all know that our schedule hasn't been challenging thus far, so we will learn a lot about our team through the rest of the games remaining in November. We need to get rid of Jawad and maybe package a pick to acquire a solid/consistent SF....

I'd personally like to see us go after Caron Butler, but I'm not sure how everyone else feels about that. Because I know his age is an issue....

sjeppe
11-17-2010, 05:09 PM
What do you want us to be the washington wizards?

MannyFresh6
11-17-2010, 05:11 PM
What do you want us to be the washington wizards?

Lol I suggest us getting Caron Butler and all of a sudden I want us to be the Wizards? SMH at you....it was a thought. I'd like to see us go after Wilson Chandler as well...he's a beast.

Jon
11-17-2010, 05:16 PM
By the way I don't know where Fred McLeod got his info during last night's game to claim that Graham was a career 42% 3 point shooter. He's at 30% and has only made 46 for his career.

lol, I got a chuckle out of that too. Take away his rookie year, and he's only made 17 over the past 5 years.

Lebumm
11-17-2010, 08:43 PM
Adam Morrison i remmber watching him before the NBA, he was lights out the way he could shoot the ball i would love to give this guy a chance...what would it hurt we dont have much now :)

BuddyCowley
11-17-2010, 09:43 PM
Adam Morrison i remmber watching him before the NBA, he was lights out the way he could shoot the ball i would love to give this guy a chance...what would it hurt we dont have much now :)

Damn, two posts in and you've already invoked the name of Adam Morrison?

Props.

weepinwillow
11-17-2010, 10:20 PM
you could probably get Hedu if you don't care about cap space, age and him smoking on the bench.

Bob_The_Cat
11-18-2010, 01:59 AM
you could probably get Hedu if you don't care about cap space, age and him smoking on the bench.

I'm sure this is a joke, but that guy would be an absolute nightmare. Maybe we could bring him in to translate for JJ since some people were so concerned about JJ's speaking ability. At least we would know when JJ wanted "BALL"