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View Full Version : Is Z taking too many sleeping pills?



Pioneer10
05-04-2006, 12:20 AM
Everyone in the season tends to believe the Cavs underutilize the big man but man Z has sucked balls this series. I don't think you can blame the other Cavs for Z's ineptitude this series. They make an effort every quarter when he's in to get him the ball. The problem is he's not making any decisive decisions and he's getting pushed way off the block. Or is it the Wizards style of play isn't conducive for Z? Small ball taking him out of his comfort zone both on O and D?

We need this guy to step in Washington so we can finish the Wizards off

The George
05-04-2006, 12:22 AM
he has been a huge disapointment in this series

KingJamesMVP
05-04-2006, 12:24 AM
I hope he can turn it around and start playing better..

Doctor K
05-04-2006, 12:25 AM
Don't act as if you were not warned.... :chuckles: I was waving 'the Z is not going to a damn thing flag' for us in this series before it started...

We made our run when he found his little comfortable seat on the bench and i'm not shocked at all...

Drew almost lost this for us, he allowed 5 easy points at the end of regulation... His softness on the and-1's on Butler killed us.. And his defense was pathetic...

The George
05-04-2006, 12:26 AM
we need a shot blocking presence so badly it is disgusting

KingJamesMVP
05-04-2006, 12:27 AM
we need a shot blocking presence so badly it is disgusting
Get THEO RATLIFF!!! :thumbup:

The George
05-04-2006, 12:28 AM
and his 11.5 mil a year ....ehhh i dont know about that

KingJamesMVP
05-04-2006, 12:29 AM
Haha true

Doctor K
05-04-2006, 12:31 AM
Now now guys.... Z hasn't played good ball in about 45 days... But i'm sure it's nothing... He should have a great game in game 6...

Dungong
05-04-2006, 12:31 AM
Z isn't doing the things offensively we expect to see this series. Basically, Haywood is just big enough to give him problems and he doesn't do well facing the doubles with their quick guards. So far, hes been alright for a few plays here and there, but this hasn't really been the down tempo half court game where Z would do well.

Defensively, Z is good on the set defenses. Hes been a pretty good post presence and causes some problems around the rim. Problem is, half the time the defense is in transition or semi-transition mode, and Z isn't worth much here. If hes even back, hes probably hopelessly out of position. He will be needed though much more in later series

KingJamesMVP
05-04-2006, 12:33 AM
It seems Drew has outplayed Z by a wide margin this series.

No disrespect to Gooden, he's been huge, but that's not a good sign for Z...

The Disector
05-04-2006, 05:11 AM
Some of the things uttered in this post sound awfully familiar.

I kind of remember a certain poster taking heat from the majority of this board for even mentioning some of the things being said in this thread!

I wish I was wrong and Z played like a juggernaut and this series was over but to me it was very obvious Ilgauskas isnt the kind of center who will take any team to a chamionship.

Z or Gooden has to go and I hope its Z because he is to slow and to weak for playoff style basketball.

That along with Gooden being younger and more athletic is why Id rather keep Gooden instead(of course the amount of money needed to keep Gooden should also be taken into account).

One of the 2 spots has to be manned by a defensive presence and I also prefer that be the center.

There is one more victory needed for Z to show some value in this series but if he thinks posting Haywood and Ruffin is tough in the playoffs just wait to match up with the Wallaces!

Cavs1
05-04-2006, 07:57 AM
There is one more victory needed for Z to show some value in this series but if he thinks posting Haywood and Ruffin is tough in the playoffs just wait to match up with the Wallaces!
yes...too bad they don't have Mehmet Okur anymore...he was always good against that stiff... :chuckles:

CornerThree
05-04-2006, 08:22 AM
I think that Z has a bigger chance of being effective vs the Pistons. And I definately agree we need to get a shotblocking type PF this offseason, hopefully one becomes available.

LyXo
05-04-2006, 08:32 AM
Tall, finesse post players like Z don't perform well against smaller, more physical centers. The way they play bigger centers is taking out their hips, and preventing the big guy from getting the ball. Yao faces the same travesty. For Z to be effective in this series, he needs to use his outside shot more to bring out the opposition. It's good that he's not our #1 option so he can just stand there.

Once we get to the centers that use their size to defend, Z will be extremely valuable. His slow-mo post moves are effective and frustrating to the opposition.

I'm dissappointed with his defense though. He should be hacking everyone coming into the paint. He definitely should be getting more blocks.

cav jvl
05-04-2006, 08:45 AM
He missed some wide open jump shots yesterday and is moving really slow, even for him. Something does not look right. Maybe foot is bothering him?

CleveRocks
05-04-2006, 08:56 AM
I have a suggestion. I think we pulled ahead of the Wiz while Lebron was out last night, because we got out and ran with them. They had been playing a transition game the whole way and when we started running they did not have the legs. They came back at the end of the game because we were running our half court set with Lebron holding the ball a lot. That allowed the Wiz to catch their breath since three out of five are not working hard for that 25 seconds.

What if we start AV and Gooden LeBron Flip and Hughes, and run with them out of the gate. Lots of transition, lots of rim attacks and a lot of fouls in the paint. Then about 8 minutes into the quarter, bring in Z, Marshall and Snow with Hughes and Lebron and go into the half court. Marshall spreading the floor, Z and Lebron playing a two man game, and hughes and Snow for defense. That way the Wiz don't have the legs to out hustle Z in transition and we are less likely to see a hack a bron strategy with a lot of fouls on the floor.

Do the same thing in quarters 2 and three. As long as we are even or up, the strategy works. In four go to your best lineup, whatever that is depnding on the foul situation. Play some lock down D and win the game.

Karma
05-04-2006, 09:30 AM
First off lets get our transition defense into order which sets up half court defense in which Z is our most effective defender. Then.... I'll refer to my game thread post....

In what has thus far been a frustrating and disappointing post season, Ilgauskas still remains a key component in the Cavaliers offense. Running some early post plays for James and maybe even some for Drew Gooden may allow some defensive focus off big Z. From there some pick'n'rolls and see if he can find some touch on the previously dangerous jumper. Instilling some confidense in Z is vital. Washington have been able to shutdown James for segments and we cannot rely on another night like game 5 from Larry and Eric. However if both teams are unable to limit runouts, you'll likely see another low minute game for Z. If this is the case, Brown should opt for Anderson in a small ball lineup over Gooden.

Hey Disector, did you notice Snow score more points last night then Jerome James all season?

Pioneer10
05-04-2006, 10:37 AM
I have a suggestion. I think we pulled ahead of the Wiz while Lebron was out last night, because we got out and ran with them. They had been playing a transition game the whole way and when we started running they did not have the legs. They came back at the end of the game because we were running our half court set with Lebron holding the ball a lot. That allowed the Wiz to catch their breath since three out of five are not working hard for that 25 seconds.

What if we start AV and Gooden LeBron Flip and Hughes, and run with them out of the gate. Lots of transition, lots of rim attacks and a lot of fouls in the paint. Then about 8 minutes into the quarter, bring in Z, Marshall and Snow with Hughes and Lebron and go into the half court. Marshall spreading the floor, Z and Lebron playing a two man game, and hughes and Snow for defense. That way the Wiz don't have the legs to out hustle Z in transition and we are less likely to see a hack a bron strategy with a lot of fouls on the floor.

Do the same thing in quarters 2 and three. As long as we are even or up, the strategy works. In four go to your best lineup, whatever that is depnding on the foul situation. Play some lock down D and win the game.
I agree CR: three of our top players (James, Hughes, and Flip) and even Gooden are most effective in the transition game. I would go small and maybe even play James at PF at times to speed the tempo up.

Kypus
05-04-2006, 02:43 PM
Great teams learn to play at both fast and slow pace. San Antonio's playoff performance against the Suns last year is the perfect example. They had Tony Parker and Ginobli run against the Suns for stretches but didn't say "Screw Duncan, he's slowing us down"!! You have a guy who stretches your strategical spectrum, you utilize him, it's that simple.

In the same way, it's great to be able run for a while with Flip, Hughes, AV. But you're not going to stop starting Ilgauskas, that is just ridiculous. Having both gears to go to is the important thing in the playoffs. We've had to run against the Wizards this series, leaving Z's minutes in the 20's, and that is fine. But we would be fools to think we can run with them the whole time.

That said, his offense has been weak. IMO he's only 80 % from the dislocated finger and sprained ankle, so no kidding his outside shot AND pivot foot is off. But he's been OK on defense-12 blocks in the series and clouding the basket area, I"ll take that. Varejao isn't going to give either of those. Let Andy do what he does best, run off the bench.

NarlCavs
05-04-2006, 02:54 PM
I wouldn't want to try to run with the Wizards for long stretches. That plays right into the Wizards hand and makes the game exactly how they want it to be played.
Cavs need to make it more of a halfcourt game and take the fastbreak opportunities when they present themselves.

Z hasn't played well this series and that can't be argued against. It also isn't like every other Cav other than LeBron has been consistently good in this series either. Z does need to step it up and I expect hin to make a positive contribution to win this series.

If you just want to be a playoff team than you can keep using an undersized perimeter oriented team like the Wizards. Championship teams need to have size and an inside presence.

The Disector
05-04-2006, 04:58 PM
Hey Disector, did you notice Snow score more points last night then Jerome James all season?

and.........???

I think youre smart enough to know without oportunity you aren't going to do much no matter who you are.

If LeBron got Jerome's minutes would he be considered even a good player?

Larry Brown is a good coach but goes overboard at times or you want to tell me why many other players lose play time under Brown including LBJ in the olympics.

Brown is extremely picky about his his players, there work ethic, and there attitude.

Hell Drew Gooden would get no time under Brown because he wouldnt put up with his lapses of stupidity!

kevolution
05-04-2006, 07:39 PM
Well if Z can't get things together soon I see problems with Sheed and Big Ben.

Sleeping pills? maybe
I always figured Z smoked squares like Vlade Dadie. I know for a fact Z puffed la in 99' but that was years ago. 11.5 though yeah I don't know about all of that.

Karma
05-04-2006, 08:36 PM
I understand Larry Brown is a tough cookie, but just like Damon Jones for Jerome James, its not coincidental that people just dont like their attitude and eventually their lack of game.