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The Disector
06-07-2005, 02:06 PM
Anyone know if he's restricted or not.
If he is restricted what do you think he is worth for Sacto not to match.

I think he'd be a perfect fit for the Cavs as he seems alot like Joe Johnson.

Underrated defender and can score in every way and is a lethal 3 point shooter if left open.

PIP
06-07-2005, 02:41 PM
i don't think cat is that great of a defender, (that's why orlando traded for christie) and he really got exposed during the series against seattle.

plus he's a bit undersized for the 2 guard spot.. perhaps as a backup option if you can't land any of the others- but not one of the first pursued.

King
06-07-2005, 03:04 PM
Mobley is way down on the list of FA's i want. If we miss out on the other FA sg's(Redd, JJ, Allen, Hughes, Simmons) I would consider persuing him. He's a good defender and scorer. But he is a bit selfish, has poor shot selection, and is undersized. Plus he's getting up there in age.

PIP
06-07-2005, 03:38 PM
i'll repeat "HE'S NOT A GOOD DEFENDER"

orlando needed defense that is why they traded cat for a established defender in christie....

The Disector
06-07-2005, 03:47 PM
Before Orlando traded away Cutino they were up with the Cavs as one of the suprise teams in the league.

After the trade they fell off the map and his teammates (especially Steve Francis) weren't very happy about him being traded.

Cutino isn't a defensive specialist but he is an underrated defender.

As for him being exposed in the Seattle series--are you saying Ginobli and Bowen were exposed in the Seattle-S.A. series because nobody could stop Ray Allen in the playoffs including the Spurs.

King
06-07-2005, 03:52 PM
Cuttino isnt the defender that Christie is, but he is solid. I thin that was just a bad trade by the Magic. Christie ended up not even being in their rotation. The Magic were looking like a playoff team before the trade.

Karma
06-07-2005, 04:09 PM
Christsie got injured after the trade and did not return. The Magic were not overly happy with Mobley and were not considering resigning him. They made the trade to get something for him. I am not a fan of Mobley's but if we fail big time this summer pursueing better options, he may be worth a look. No long term deal should be considered.

PIP
06-07-2005, 04:22 PM
Before Orlando traded away Cutino they were up with the Cavs as one of the suprise teams in the league.

After the trade they fell off the map and his teammates (especially Steve Francis) weren't very happy about him being traded.

Cutino isn't a defensive specialist but he is an underrated defender.

As for him being exposed in the Seattle series--are you saying Ginobli and Bowen were exposed in the Seattle-S.A. series because nobody could stop Ray Allen in the playoffs including the Spurs.

bro' we agree on the big, but we'll have to agree to disagree on "CAT", ray allen did nothing but bitch about bowen,because bruce was in his shorts.. i would say bowen d-up nicley on ray... ray got open on alot of pick n rolls to, something you and i know this team can't play for a CERTAIN REASON (#11 cough) :chuckles:

every shot ray took against bowen you better believe was contested.. i believe ray dropped a 40 spot on "CAT" amd company------ even adelman said going into the playoffs that the team was not as strong defensively as previous years. alot of that had to do with "CAT" -- if he was all that, sacramento and those maloofs woulb be looking to lock him up.

TyGuy
06-07-2005, 07:12 PM
Catino is a good defender, the only thing tha tmade any sense in that trade for orlando was the fact that christies deal coems off the books the same time as grant hills. Catino was actually very solid defensviely for sac, it was his poor shot selection however that most people dont liek about him. He also likes to play point guard, dribble, dribble then finally take a bad shot. However if he plays within an offense and takes good shots he is usually money but he is one of the older guys in the fa market, he also has to opt out of his current deal to become a free agent. His shot selection and pretending to be a point gaurd is what worries me, so there are other guys id rather have.

Pioneer10
06-07-2005, 07:58 PM
I would consider this offseason a dissappointment if Mobley ends up being our SG. He's an adequate player but we have huge holes to fill and I want a championship team not just a playoff team. Cutino would improve our backcourt by making it average but we need another star type player or close to it (Billups, Hamilton are guys who might be stars but are awfully close) to really make a big leap forward

The Disector
06-07-2005, 08:08 PM
bro' we agree on the big, but we'll have to agree to disagree on "CAT", ray allen did nothing but bitch about bowen,because bruce was in his shorts.. i would say bowen d-up nicley on ray... ray got open on alot of pick n rolls to, something you and i know this team can't play for a CERTAIN REASON (#11 cough) :chuckles:

every shot ray took against bowen you better believe was contested.. i believe ray dropped a 40 spot on "CAT" amd company------ even adelman said going into the playoffs that the team was not as strong defensively as previous years. alot of that had to do with "CAT" -- if he was all that, sacramento and those maloofs woulb be looking to lock him up.

Yea we definitely disagree on this one. :)

There is no way that I can blame Cutino for Sacto's defensive woes.
They stunk defensively before he got there and that's what they were known for--Not being able to play any D.
That's why they never got past the Lakers.

Here's a comparison of Ray vs S.A. and vs Sacto:
Against S.A:
Ray got hurt in game 1 and barely played, so we'll throw that game out the window.
Game 2 Ray scored 25.
Game 3 Ray scored 20
Game 4 Ray scored 32
Game 5 Ray scored 19
and in Game 6 Ray scored 25.
That's an average of 24.2 points per game against probably the best defensive team in the league and Ginobli and Bowen.

Against Sacto:
Game 1 Ray scored 28.
Game 2 Ray scored 26.
Game 3 Ray scored 33.
Game 4 Ray scored 45.
Game 5 Ray scored 30.
That's an average of 32.4 points per game against an overall defense that has always stunk but the point is Ray torched both teams.

Sacto's defense does stink and believe it or not Mobley is probably the best defender on that entire starting squad and definitely the best defensive guard/wing starter as both Bibby and Stojakovic are totally useless defensively.

When you say a player gets torched it usually means one on one that player couldn't guard him but the case here is the Kings as a team couldn't play pick and roll worth a crap and Ray torched the whole team.

E-Light
06-07-2005, 08:16 PM
Cuttino's on my B list. That would suck if we were only left with him. He's solid, don't get me wrong but to go from Mike Redd/Ray Allen/Joe johnson/lary hughes and past bobby simmons to cutino mobley really shows you how not so highly cleveland is regarded, but this is most logical. We'll be left with the scraps as usual.

TyGuy
06-08-2005, 01:57 AM
Cuttino's on my B list. That would suck if we were only left with him. He's solid, don't get me wrong but to go from Mike Redd/Ray Allen/Joe johnson/lary hughes and past bobby simmons to cutino mobley really shows you how not so highly cleveland is regarded, but this is most logical. We'll be left with the scraps as usual.Why is this the most logical? First of all he would have to opt out of his current contract to even become a free agent. Some of u fans are so pessimistic its almost makes u sick.

Karma
06-08-2005, 02:05 AM
When John Battle is Clevelands highest profile free agent signing in Cavalier's history, you get the picture that free agents just dont want to play in Cleveland. It isn't pesimism, its reality.

LyXo
06-08-2005, 04:03 PM
Yea, it seems that experience has taught Cavs fans to expect less. But never in the past have they had a top 5 attraction to distract them from the weather and poorness of the city.

As for Cuttino Mobley, I was pushing for us to acquire him since he was in Orlando, and was readily shut down. Dunno why, he has a high 3pt% and can develop into quite a prolific shooter. He has an attitude problem, but winning solves everything. He knows he would be playing second fiddle to LeBron: he played alongside Steve Francis & Yao in Houston, Stevie and Hill in Orlando, and with Bibby, Peja, B.Miller, Webber, in Sac, and still flourished offensively. Defensively, I dunno, he seems a tad undersized for the 2 and doesn't seem to have PG skills, which could hurt a defensively challenged team like ours.

What surprises me is that he hasn't really shown up in any rumors this summer. Sure he has a player option for 6 mil, but I'd think he'd be ambitious and check out the market. He could probably command something starting around 7-9 mil when factored into the same market with the likes of Ray Allen, Michael Redd, Joe Johnson, Bobby Simmons, and Larry Hughes. Every one of these FA's except Ray Allen will get a deal starting around 7-11 million, once the tone of the market is set. Ray will get 10+ starting.

It only makes sense for us to at least pursue all the options out there. Cuttino shouldn't be brushed from the list until he picks up his option or signs a contract.

Karma
06-08-2005, 04:12 PM
With the fact there are so many shooting guards avaliable should push his price down. He is No.6 on the list. This may force him his hand and take up his player option in hope for next season being a little less quality guys coming off contract.

LyXo
06-08-2005, 04:27 PM
Allen, Redd, Johnson, Hughes, Simmons, Mobley

Teams in the hunt to re-sign:
Seattle
Milwaukee
Phoenix
Washington
LAC

Teams with cap space:
Denver
Cleveland
Atlanta

There are also endless possibilities with sign-and-trade deals. Mobley is the one that, should he not pick up his option, is most likely to move. They would probably have tried to work out an extension if he wanted to stay. The top 5 SG's out there all have a good possibility of just signing back up with their team, if their team is willing to dish out the money for them.

Rimage
06-09-2005, 09:23 AM
Yea, it seems that experience has taught Cavs fans to expect less. But never in the past have they had a top 5 attraction to distract them from the weather and poorness of the city.

I can't tell you how much I hate it when people talk about the weather. This is basketball people. Players aren't looking for a winter getaway, they are looking to play for a team where they can make money and/or win a championship. There are a lot of nice places in Cleveland and the surrounding areas to live. Plus they aren't even in the city half the season, they are in 29 other cities. If players are worried about how cold it is during the season, they maybe they should just take a break from the game and go on a long vacation.

This is basketball, not booking a 6 month vacation.

LyXo
06-09-2005, 11:08 AM
Given the choice between playing in Cleveland or playing in Chicago, Boston, California, etc. is a big difference maker. When they sign that contract, they're making a multi-year commitment. It's like a job: you survey the area to see if it's livable, and decide from there. Of course salary is the #1 factor, then playing time, etc., but I'm sure that the actual city that they're living in is quite important.

Poorest big city in the country. Crappy weather. Why else don't we get any FA's to sign with us? Oh yea, we signed up Ira Newble and Kevin Ollie.

Basketball players are celebrities. They want to spend money, live happily. Many would consider going somewhere other than Cleveland, because it's just better. I love Cleveland myself, but I can't expect everyone to.

Rimage
06-09-2005, 01:34 PM
You only live the for 6-7 months. Every State in US has livable and unlivable areas. Cleveland has its affluent sections and LA has its slums. The rest of the year they can go live were ever they want. Indiana, Boston, Minnesota, Seattle, Detroit all have "crappy" seasonal weather, free agents go there. Alanta, Orlando, and California (Golden State and the Clips) have "nice" hot weather.

I think weather is a very minute and trivial factor. It would be for me. I would be focused on basketball during the basketball season and know that I could go anywhere in the world the rest of the time.

LyXo
06-09-2005, 02:56 PM
You only live the for 6-7 months. Every State in US has livable and unlivable areas. Cleveland has its affluent sections and LA has its slums. The rest of the year they can go live were ever they want. Indiana, Boston, Minnesota, Seattle, Detroit all have "crappy" seasonal weather, free agents go there. Alanta, Orlando, and California (Golden State and the Clips) have "nice" hot weather.

I think weather is a very minute and trivial factor. It would be for me. I would be focused on basketball during the basketball season and know that I could go anywhere in the world the rest of the time.

The 6-7 months is October-April, pretty much the worst of the year. Sure, you can go anywhere else. Sure, you can live anywhere you want. But after the games they gotta stay in Cleveland. They're going to have to settle at least a bit and live here. As I said, I have no problem with C-town, but if there are alternatives, people will choose those. Boston, Indianapolis, Minneapolis, Seattle: they have crappy weather, but not quite as crappy as Cleveland, and they are much more developed.

Detroit:
Signed McDyess: Why? They gave him a sizeable contract and they just won the championship
Signed Billups: Paid him enough money, more than anyone else.
Other than that, nothing big on the Pistons record in the past few years.

Minnesota has Garnett. MVP candidate
Indiana has O'neal. MVP candidate


It takes overpayment to attract FA's to teams in bad cities. I'm not saying that Cleveland will never be able to get FA's. Now that we have LeBron, it will be much easier to get people to join up this winning organization. But without him, any FA would choose to go anywhere else for the same amount of money.

Rimage
06-09-2005, 04:03 PM
Haha, this is the Cleveland mentality. If something can be bad, then it must be. Other cities have bad weather, but for some reason we have the worst. Nah, you just think we have the worst. The entire Midwest has cold weather. It isn't a frozen hell, at least not to me. Maybe to those beach babies down in the tropics. We are not underdeveloped, especially not compared to Indianapolis and Minneapolis.

No wonder we get bagged, not even our own people think Cleveland is a good city. I don't think the people, the economy or the weather are as bad as everyone claims them to be.

Karma
06-09-2005, 04:09 PM
Its not just the weather Rimage. Cleveland has developed a bed reputation over the past few years. Even though we just had a winning season, it was full of disruptions and a lack of professionalism. Just look at our track record. Gerald Wilkins and John Battle are our biggest gignings in 30+ seasons. Cleveland has a bad name for itself, and only LeBron and co have the chance to fix it.

Rimage
06-09-2005, 04:12 PM
Oh, I know stupid stuff happens here and it sure seems like when it comes to sports, Cleveland can't catch a break, but I don't think Cleveland is horrible town, and the weather is the worst and we are underdeveloped or whatever other bad thing that can be.

I think that concerning sports, we are in rough shape, but that is it. I don't think players think the town is hell on earth.