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Cavs (absent) Defense (Lloyd/ABJ)

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Well, this article is specifically about the team's defense, so focusing on Irving's defense seems completely fair.



As has been pointed out by others, the issue seems to be less his ability to be an adequate defender than his willingness to work at it. From the article:

“I’m probably a C right now,” Irving said. “Maybe I do need to climb on board.”

"Maybe"? I don't think there's really any maybe about it. Now, nobody is saying they want to get rid of Irving, or denying his talent on the offensive end. But there isn't anything wrong with holding off on his beatification until he shows a willingness to work defensively. As great as LBJ was offensively, even he got regularly criticized early in his career for a lack of defensive intensity. I'm not sure why pointing out Irving's lack of effort on the defensive end should be off limits. Or is it just worry that his feelings are going to be hurt or something?

My response wasn't to the article at all. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. The article was very fair and I agree completely. My post was in regard to some in this thread and other game threads where people are truly overreacting over kyries defensive play. He's not a good defender yet, or even an adequate defender yet. I don't expect him to be. He's a 20 year old guard who is eight games into his 2nd year, one of the top 5 scorers in the league up to this point. I'm not going to be "dissapointed" when his defense looks like it's not there yet. Kyries play has set some unrealistic expectations on this board on what to expect from a sophomore pg.
 
Its not just about effort. There are games where I watch them and think, "Do they even know what the hell they are supposed to do defensively?" Last night was one of those games. It wasn't just Kyrie, though he was one of the main culprits. Thompson always seemed to be late on rotations, Alonzo got lost, Dion got lost... it was depressing watching Andy run around try to cover for everyone else.

I don't know what the scheme is on the PnR (Byron says he wants them to fight through, fine), but Irving and Waiters get picked off way too easily. Even when Irving knows its coming, he still allows himself to get screened. If that's going to happen, the bigs are going to have to hedge hard, but it doesn't look like that's what Byron wants. Irving needs to stop allowing his man to dictate where he goes. If he sees the screen coming, shade closer to the ball-handler. The kid has no clue what to do when screened off the ball, and that should be concerning. I'm not saying he has to be an elite defender, but he's been in the league two years now. If he hasn't been taught what to do, then Byron needs to be held accountable for that.

And I swear to God, I'm going to pull my hair out watching Tristan do anything. Offense, defense, free throws. He's got a long, long way to go
 
Even if we had better defenders, we aren't going to win many games with the bench going -20. And it's not that the defense is scoring 10 points and giving up 30 in 5 minutes to start the 2nd and 4th quarters. They are scoring zero and letting up 20.
 
I know, it blows my damn mind. Our 2nd year pg just dropped a career high of points in a game, is like 3rd or 4th in the whole NBA in scoring, and all people can focus on is his defensive shortcomings. He has the ability to be an adequate defender.....so why don't we give him time to develop it before we shit on him?

I don't think people are bashing Kyrie due to his defensive shortcomings, but the fact that he doesn't seem to be committed to that end of the floor. I think we all believe he can be better than what he actually is if he committed himself on that end, especially now that he's not the only backcourt scoring threat. There's really no reason why he shouldn't be busting his ass at all times on the defensive end.

It's a fair worry at this point in time, as Byron was very vocal about him not being committed to the defensive end last season as well.
 
I know, it blows my damn mind. Our 2nd year pg just dropped a career high of points in a game, is like 3rd or 4th in the whole NBA in scoring, and all people can focus on is his defensive shortcomings. He has the ability to be an adequate defender.....so why don't we give him time to develop it before we shit on him?

Nash got two MVP's not being able to guard a can of sprite. I agree, give him some time.
 
Nash got two MVP's not being able to guard a can of sprite. I agree, give him some time.

Nash was so bad defensively that he let Jason Richardson score with his wife
 
Nash got two MVP's not being able to guard a can of sprite. I agree, give him some time.

Nash, especially under coach D'Antoni, was also considered to play a brand of basketball which would never bring a title.
I doubt they can do it, even with a defensive anchor like Howard.

I believe that we want Kyrie to bring Cleveland a title, no? Or is MVP good enough?

I agree that it may require time. But if he gives himself a C grade and think he maybe needs to climb on board, it might take quite a while.
 
Kyrie is smart. He knows we need to tank another year for this thing to work lol.
 
Nash, especially under coach D'Antoni, was also considered to play a brand of basketball which would never bring a title.
I doubt they can do it, even with a defensive anchor like Howard.

I believe that we want Kyrie to bring Cleveland a title, no? Or is MVP good enough?

I agree that it may require time. But if he gives himself a C grade and think he maybe needs to climb on board, it might take quite a while.

To be clear, i dont think Nash deserved the MVP's because of how horrible his defense is, but my point is give the kid a break.

I actually think he deserves a D grade on defense and needs to be atleast a b-. I give Waiters a C+ at this point and i think he could end up an A- with the right coaching.
 
Defense is all about effort.... from everybody. It does not work when three guys are defending and two are having a party. The best players in the game are very good defensively, and yes that includes leprincess and Kobe. The team defense begins with the leadership, so it that were Andy, then the team would follow his example. But in fact it is Kyries team now, and he has to buy in, or nobody buys in...

Someone lamented that no amount of defensive effort would erase the bench's -20 stat. But in fact, the bench players are exactly the guys who need to come in and defend the hardest. It is not your best players, which is why they are the bench... but if they can defend, the game stays close while the starters catch thier wind. Our bench gives up 20 points in three minutes. Kyrie takes a swallow of gatorade and he is looking at a 10 point deficit. How does he motivate to go out and play tough defense AND score an extra ten points to make up for a lame effort. And most of the time the bench is playing against the other teams bench! The trouble with Sloan, Walton and or Miles in particular is that they cant or wont bother to defend even bad nba players.
 
Do people really expect a 20 year old to come into the league and in less than 82 games be able to lock down Russell Westbrook and Deron Williams?

It doesn't work like that. Scott can demand anything he wants but 20 year olds are often bad defenders in the NBA.

Agreed. How many years did it take LeBron to show any effort. I'd prefer Kyrie continue to develop his offensive skills. He'll wear out his opponents trying to keep up with him.
 
Agreed. How many years did it take LeBron to show any effort. I'd prefer Kyrie continue to develop his offensive skills. He'll wear out his opponents trying to keep up with him.

I don't know about you or anyone else, but I was pretty pissed about that...
 
All I can say is we're just too young to play good team D. Simply put our guys don't even know what good team D LOOKS LIKE. That's why I cut B Scott a lot of slack. Now every man on that court can be giving 110% on individual D. And that's not happening. We all can tell. We need to bring in some more vets into our rotation. Guys that have played playoff level team D and had success. These guys need to see it before they can play it. Right now they are all looking to Scott and honestly idk if he has the mind for defense. I'm kinda hoping Mike Brown would come back as our D coach
 

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