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Hollinger to the Grizzlies Front Office

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MD13

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Also, a source in the stat-based community confirms it: Hollinger leaving ESPN for Grizzlies.</p>&mdash; Howard Beck (@HowardBeckNYT) <a href="https://twitter.com/HowardBeckNYT/status/279363961298763776" data-datetime="2012-12-13T23:15:33+00:00">December 13, 2012</a></blockquote>
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Too bad, I'll miss not having Hollinger around, but best of luck to him with the Grizz. Now we won't get a sneak preview of the Cavs draft board a few weeks before the draft!
 
Too bad, I'll miss not having Hollinger around, but best of luck to him with the Grizz. Now we won't get a sneak preview of the Cavs draft board a few weeks before the draft!

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and the transition to front offices' focusing more on advanced stats continues..

good for him.
 
Might have to cancel my ESPN Insider account now. Hollinger's daily articles were one of the main reasons I kept renewing it.
 
Good for him, Hollinger was the lone voice of reason on ESPN for me
 
Well that's good for him, but bad for us. Seems like he was one of the few guys around the NBA that actually made sense, and wasn't just looking for hits by screaming on TV (Skip, SAS).
 
ESPN lost one of its only intelligent writers today. Sad.
 
I know some people around here loved him, but the next team that wins an NBA title with that advanced metrics stuff will be the first.

The NBA is, was and always will be driven by stars, and no amount of data fired into an Excel spread sheet is going to make all that much different in the grand scheme of things.

Good for him though for being able to parlay that stuff into a good paying job like that though.
 
I know some people around here loved him, but the next team that wins an NBA title with that advanced metrics stuff will be the first.

The NBA is, was and always will be driven by stars, and no amount of data fired into an Excel spread sheet is going to make all that much different in the grand scheme of things.

Good for him though for being able to parlay that stuff into a good paying job like that though.

His spawn like Daryl Morey tried all the advanced metric/Billy Bean shit for a few years and now he is resigned to doing whatever he can to attract stars, along with having James Harden recruiting more stars throughout the season.

I hope he doesnt get cute and kill what the Grizzlies have going. They seem to have things going pretty well without his advanced metrics. Jerry West really put them in a position to have a perennial contender for a good decade by knowing what it takes to win and using his wealth of knowledge of the game to put the roster together. Golden State looks good as well.

From a purist standpoint, his metrics are fun to talk about over coffee or if we were playing the game with basketball cards and dice, but this league is too much about ratings and dollars to ever feature anything other than the best talent on the biggest stages.
 
I think they will be fine as long his advanced metrics are just used as another tool, not something to completely base their decisions off of.
 
I know some people around here loved him, but the next team that wins an NBA title with that advanced metrics stuff will be the first.

The NBA is, was and always will be driven by stars, and no amount of data fired into an Excel spread sheet is going to make all that much different in the grand scheme of things.

Good for him though for being able to parlay that stuff into a good paying job like that though.


I don't think any stat guy would disagree with you that the game is driven by stars. But building a roster isn't as simple as acquiring a star. Understanding exactly how valuable your star is, and the guys around then, and how they fit together are incredibly important, and the measures are out there for the people who are actually willing to learn. Anyone who describes what Hollinger does as playing the game with cards and dice is clueless. Hollinger understands better than anyone what kind of probabilities he's working with. The numbers that get presented in ESPN articles to the common man are gross oversimplifications of what he's actually trying to figure out.
 
The Celtics I believe won a Championship with one of the premiere advanced metric men in the business.
Dallas used alot of statistical analysis in developing their game plan for the heat. I believe they won a championship. Dallas went a step further than the Celtics and put the guy on their bench as a coach.
Miami has Bob Chaikin who used to run his own database.

NBA.com: In general, what role do statistics play in how you've coached the Heat?
Erik Spoelstra: I look at it to evaluate our team, to compare us to other teams, particularly defensively, where we stack up against the best. I also use it to make points to the team about things we need to improve. I use it also for scouting, when we're trying to come up with a game plan for the opponent.
More than anything, I use stats to either substantiate some hunches we have as a staff or to make us think more and to come up with more questions.
NBA.com: What statistical tools do you use?
E.S.: We have a proprietary statistical database that we've had since I was an assistant coach. We developed it with our personal software writer for stats. He's based out of L.A. and his name is Shmuel Einstein.
When Pat [Riley] wanted to turn the corner statistically 10-plus years ago, he put me in charge of it with a blank canvas. So I figured he would be a good guy to hire since his name was Einstein.


You guys are living in the eighties and early nineties. statistical analysis has been a factor in almost every championship game going back to Pat riley.

plus minus is a very effective tool in identifying issues when put in conjuction with other information.

to say or believe that statistical analysis has not had a profound impact on championships or the NBA in General is very Naive




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I don't think any stat guy would disagree with you that the game is driven by stars. But building a roster isn't as simple as acquiring a star. Understanding exactly how valuable your star is, and the guys around then, and how they fit together are incredibly important, and the measures are out there for the people who are actually willing to learn. Anyone who describes what Hollinger does as playing the game with cards and dice is clueless. Hollinger understands better than anyone what kind of probabilities he's working with. The numbers that get presented in ESPN articles to the common man are gross oversimplifications of what he's actually trying to figure out.

Athletes aren't numerical probabilities you can put together to build a perfect team.

The old fashioned 'eye test" is orders of magnitude more important about telling you whether guys will fit together than anything a spread sheet can pump out.

People who know the game and evaluate talent for a living can look at a player and know whether he is a fit or not. No amount of numerical manipulation will ever persuade you into taking or not taking a guy you either think sucks or can really play.

Those metrics can't account for the intangibles of a guy who knows how to do the right thing at the right moment, and it is that kind of stuff that is the difference between winning a title and being on the treadmill.
 
You guys are living in the eighties and early nineties. statistical analysis has been a factor in almost every championship game going back to Pat riley.

plus minus is a very effective tool in identifying issues when put in conjuction with other information.

to say or believe that statistical analysis has not had a profound impact on championships or the NBA in General is very Naive

Completely agree, Tornicade. Memphis is not being at all revolutionary. They are just catching up with what the rest of the league (bad teams and good teams) has been doing for many years.

In some cases, like Morey, you have a stats guy pretty much running things. In other cases, they are on staff, working in conjunction with old-school scouts.
 
Athletes aren't numerical probabilities you can put together to build a perfect team.

The old fashioned 'eye test" is orders of magnitude more important about telling you whether guys will fit together than anything a spread sheet can pump out.

People who know the game and evaluate talent for a living can look at a player and know whether he is a fit or not. No amount of numerical manipulation will ever persuade you into taking or not taking a guy you either think sucks or can really play.

Those metrics can't account for the intangibles of a guy who knows how to do the right thing at the right moment, and it is that kind of stuff that is the difference between winning a title and being on the treadmill.

That's the classic counter argument, and its wrong. Baseball and football has adapted a long time ago. It's less apparent in the NBA because the truly elite usually stand out. But advanced metrics is what helps teams get contributors in the middle and tail end of the draft. Statistics, when used properly, are an incredibly powerful tool in all facets of life.
 

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