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Oden

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Re: Oden eyes Cavs, Heat

someone tell me why the Cavs are on his list?

Probably for they same reason that they were on Andrew Bynum's list. That reason is that the Cavs have cap space and can bid up his market price.
 
Re: Oden eyes Cavs, Heat

Here's the ESPN take on the situation. If he comes back, he'd be the first guy to come back to the NBA after 3 micro-fracture surgeries. He's already the only basketball player I know to need micro-fracture surgery from an injury he received getting out of a chair in the off-season.

You could have said the same about Z after all his foot surgeries as well. Z's situation demonstrates that it is entirely possible for a flawed surgery to derail a possible recovery. It wasn't until his seventh(I think) surgery that someone finally decided to do something different by restructuring the foot, and the result was that he returned and had a strong career after almost all of us had written him off. So, the fact that Oden has had a couple of unsuccessful surgeries does not necessarily demonstrate that this last surgery can't be successful. Presumably, a flawed rehab/recovery plan may have been just as damaging to Oden as the failure to do the proper surgeries in Z's case was to him. Of course, the trick is determining whether the problem was flawed rehab, or a flawed patient.

So at bottom, I think this really comes down to a purely medical decision for which most of us lack adequate information. I quite suspect you're right, but then, I also didn't expect Z's return. I think the only logical course here is just to trust on the medical staff, because they know a hell of a lot more about this than do any of us.
 
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Re: Oden eyes Cavs, Heat

The Z compairison has never been a good one for Oden. Z needed aggressive reconstructive surgery to "Fix" his feet. In other words, they basically rebuild the bones in his feet so they worked like they should. Once that same aggressive surgery had been done on both feet they were stable and able to take the impact of sports activities.

Best I know there isnt some fancy special Micro-fracture surgery Oden has gone through to actually fix the root issue like Z has with his reconstructive surgery. I may be wrong on that, but these seem like pretty dissimilar recurring injuries to me.

That said, I cant say I wouldnt still give Oden a flier.
 
Re: Oden eyes Cavs, Heat

Microfracture surgery is also relatively new. It was developed late 80s. It has only been used extensively for the past 10-15 years. So there is reason to expect that doctors will continue to refine the technique and rehab process that follows and find new solutions.
 
Re: Oden eyes Cavs, Heat

If Oden were to come back playing like he was never injured, almost any team would find room to give him major minutes; but assuming he comes back far short of that - the Cavs could still afford him minutes - albeit it gets messier if we take a C in the draft.
 
Re: Oden eyes Cavs, Heat

If he's healthy, playing well, and we also draft a center.....thats an iproblem I am happy to have. Centers are Lefty pitchers. You can always get good tarde value for them.


Having 3 solid to good centers igives a great deal of flexability on and off the court.
 
Re: Oden eyes Cavs, Heat

If he's healthy, playing well, and we also draft a center.....thats an iproblem I am happy to have. Centers are Lefty pitchers. You can always get good tarde value for them.


Having 3 solid to good centers igives a great deal of flexability on and off the court.

Especially knowing that we will eventually have to deal with a Drummond/Monroe duo for the next ten years.

Having 4 centers is unrealistic but I just can't trust Andy or Oden to stay healthy. Noel and Zeller are the safety nets. If Oden/Andy prove they can overcome injuries and perform we trade them.

Obviously, Oden's contract would be non-guaranteed and include team options.
 
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Re: Oden eyes Cavs, Heat

Especially knowing that we will eventually have to deal with a Drummond/Monroe duo for the next ten years.

I have been thinking about this a lot lately. In a couple years, the Pistons are going to be scary.
 
Re: Oden eyes Cavs, Heat

IMO getting Oden would be like getting Andrew Bynum without having to offer that 15plus mill a year contract

This is a good way to look at it.
 
Re: Oden eyes Cavs, Heat

I'd give Oden a 3 yr/6 million dollar deal.....team option in 3rd year
 
Re: Oden eyes Cavs, Heat

Having 3 solid to good centers igives a great deal of flexability on and off the court.

I agree. And if you ask Portland, I'm sure they'd say three centers on the team is a necessity if Greg Oden is on your roster.
 
Re: Oden eyes Cavs, Heat

The Z compairison has never been a good one for Oden. Z needed aggressive reconstructive surgery to "Fix" his feet. In other words, they basically rebuild the bones in his feet so they worked like they should. Once that same aggressive surgery had been done on both feet they were stable and able to take the impact of sports activities.

Best I know there isnt some fancy special Micro-fracture surgery Oden has gone through to actually fix the root issue like Z has with his reconstructive surgery. I may be wrong on that, but these seem like pretty dissimilar recurring injuries to me.

The nature of the injuries and repairs is different. However, the similarity is that if the prior process was not done correctly, then it may fail even if the patient remains ultimately capable of recovery. A poor/incorrect rehabilitation may be similar to the failure to perform the proper surgery. Anyone who has had any surgery knows that rehab is almost as important as the surgery itself. If you don't rehab correctly, you are risking reinjury and/or permanent impairment.

If the Cavs' doctors review the medical records and say "you know what, his rehab was all screwed up. If he does it right, we thinking there's a good chance of success", then that is a different situation from a guy with three surgeries who has rehabbed correctly each time. The former offers realistic hope, the latter does not. And just speaking for myself, I don't have enough knowledge to know which situation it is.

Maybe some others here do, but I don't. And I guess it kind of surprises me that we have folks making assertions as if they are doctors with access to the relevant information.
 
Re: Oden eyes Cavs, Heat

Per Wikipedia:

"The procedure is less effective in treating older patients, overweight patients, or a cartilage lesion larger than 2.5 cm.[10] Further on, chances are high that after only 1 or 2 years of the surgery symptoms start to return as the fibrocartilage wears away, forcing the patient to reengage in articular cartilage repair."

Yes, at 285 pounds Oden falls into the "overweight" category, and I wouldn't doubt that he's in the "lesion larger than 2.5 cm" category as well. His weight combined with the demands of NBA basketball also mean that 1-2 years for the average Joe probably become a few months for Oden.

"...microfracture techniques do not fill in the chondral defect fully, forming fibrocartilage rather than hyaline cartilage. Fibrocartilage is not as mechanically sound as hyaline cartilage; it is much denser and unable to withstand the demands of everyday activities as well as the original cartilage and is thus at higher risk of breaking down."

Again, we're talking about a procedure that, in the best case, allows a normal-weight person to lead a normal, pain-free life for a few years. Oden's natural, strong cartilage was shot by the time he finished college. Replace that with this "not as mechanically sound" cartilage, and I give him 3 months tops.

Bottom line: knees get worse, not better, over time. If, optimistically, there's a 50% chance he's healthy enough to play right now, there's a slim-to-none chance he'll still be healthy in a few years when we're hoping to compete. Unless he literally plays 10 minutes a game, 50 games a season, what little weakened cartilage there is in his knees will be gone again before you know it. He may get in 5 or 10 or even 20 games "healthy" and put up semi-decent numbers, but don't be fooled. Then there'll be the "Oden experienced discomfort in his left knee during practice today" and "Oden will not play tonight as a precaution" and then "Oden is out indefinitely" and then more surgery, or he'll just retire.
 
Re: Oden eyes Cavs, Heat

I'd give Oden a 3 yr/6 million dollar deal.....team option in 3rd year

Don't think that gets it done, but it depends on how it's structured.

Year 1. $1M
2. $2M
3. $3M

I was thinking something like 3/$7.5 with club option year three.
 
Re: Oden eyes Cavs, Heat

Don't think that gets it done, but it depends on how it's structured.

Year 1. $1M
2. $2M
3. $3M

I was thinking something like 3/$7.5 with club option year three.

Well if we are only fighting with Miami... They can really only offer the minimum which is around 1 million a year for his situation.

3/$6 sounds pretty good especially with the LeBron uncertainty. I'm sure he could also get a decent amount of money in local advertising given his connection to OSU.
 

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