Johnny Manziel: Swan Won't Return His Calls

[Man Called X]

The obvious difference we're looking at here:

Aaron Rogers learned behind Brett Favre
Kaepernick learned from Alex Smith
Rivers learned from Drew Breese
Favre learned from Chris Miller (led Falcons to playoffs and was a pro-bowler in Favre's rookie year)

I don't really think Manziel is ready for game one, but the point being is that usually guys that sit and learn are sitting because they're playing behind guys that are legit NFL QB's. Hoyer has 4 career starts and 7 career NFL TD's. Realistically, how much will Manziel learn while sitting and watching Hoyer?

Honestly, I throw Hoyer to the wolves in week one. Let him face the Steelers. If he plays well, leave him in. If not, see what you have in Manziel the rest of the season. Hoyer isn't a long term solution at QB. We need to see if Manziel could be. Otherwise we'll be drafting another QB next season.

We draft a QB every 3 years, not every year. Although at this rate, we should probably start.

 

[godfather]

Retweeted by Mary Kay Cabot
SiriusXM NFL Radio ‏@SiriusXMNFL 1h
Coach Pettine on QB's: "We could potentially look at a 2 QB system down the road"

This is a slippery slope. I can't remember the last time a 2 QB system in any form worked at any level.

What an idiot he is for even thinking this.

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

We draft a QB every 3 years, not every year. Although at this rate, we should probably start.

I'm not an advocate of drafting one every year, but next year is an absolutely stacked draft in terms of potential franchise QB's. Considering the fact we own two 1st rounders next year, if neither Hoyer nor Manziel can establish themselves as a legit starter, we will absolutely be drafting a QB. Plus, if both of these guys suck, we could possibly have two picks in the top 8.

 

[Tornicade]

I dont think Pettine cares about pressure from the media and fans to play Johnny Manziel. I believe the pressure to play Manziel is coming from within the organization. not from above but from below,

Shanahan has a proven track record and alot of clout when it comes to dealing with young quarterbacks and young running backs.

AZ might not listen to what the coaches say at the pressers although i think they tend to express more than he thinks if you pay attention.

but there are several things going on here.

1st Hoyers has not looked better than Manziel this training camp.
2nd Manziel was put with the starters
3rd both quarterbacks struggled with the addition of the offensive scheme. to the point it wasnt even used in the preseason game.

as far as the wokring with the ride receivers things. Josh Gordon,Austin Miles,Nate Burleson are experienced receivers.

Manziel has put i just as much work with the rest as Hoyer.

Geno Smith was 8-8 as a rookie quarterback
Vince Young 8-. youve had 13 starting rookie quarterbacks with more than 10 games in the last three seasons.

as far Tim couch goes. Aikman went 1-15 his rookie year .

of the 13 teams to start a rookie quarterback in the last three seasons 5 won 50% or more of their game.

go back farther 8 of 21.

now im not saying force the guy out there if he isnt ready but if he has the plays down and knows the language which looks is gonna happen sooner rather than later you put him in there unless your planning to start hoyer for the next 3 years.







.

 

[Randolphkeys]

If some of you want to keep pretending Manziel deserves to start, go ahead... but even he stopped making that argument five days ago. Let's just get one thing straight: Manziel played most of the preseason so far with Browns first teamers against opponent's second teamers. Aside from two series in Washington, he has had advantages that he won't have in the regular season. When good journalists like Tom Reed and Pat McManamon are saying Manziel doesn't look ready for NFL Sundays, they aren't bashing the guy. They are seeing him struggle mightily in situations designed to inflate his success.

 

[Tornicade]

you mean two games ?

We shall see how the attitude on the tower of Terror changes if Hoyer continues to look flat. Hoyer hasnt really separated himself from a Manziel who is still thinking about what he is doing than just doing.

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

you mean two games ?

We shall see how the attitude on the tower of Terror changes if Hoyer continues to look flat. Hoyer hasnt really separated himself from a Manziel who is still thinking about what he is doing than just doing.

This is where I'm at on this, too. I'm not saying start Manziel just to start him. However, Hoyer has had literally every advantage in winning this job and he's done absolutely nothing to separate himself from Manziel.

Personally, I feel like Johnny is such a competitor that he would actually benefit from getting smacked around for a game or two while getting his bearings.

I just don't feel that we are gaining anything by starting Hoyer at this point. He's done nothing in the preseason to make me think the Browns can be even remotely competitive with him at QB. Give Johnny a chance to learn by getting real experience and see if he's worth anything at all. It'll be painful at first, but who knows what he might do once he gets his footing.

As my high school football coach always said, "You don't lose with age, you lose with youth." In other words, if you're going to lose games, it's pointless to do it with veterans. You lose with youth so they can gain experience and so you can determine if those guys are worthwhile in the first place.

 

[Tornicade]

uh manziel is showing poise in the pocket and hoyer cant handle the heat

maybe he just isnt a good preseason guy.

and hoyer looked just as mediocre against the rams 2nd team as he did their first team.

 

[EdMonix11]

This is where I'm at on this, too. I'm not saying start Manziel just to start him. However, Hoyer has had literally every advantage in winning this job and he's done absolutely nothing to separate himself from Manziel.

Personally, I feel like Johnny is such a competitor that he would actually benefit from getting smacked around for a game or two while getting his bearings.

I just don't feel that we are gaining anything by starting Hoyer at this point. He's done nothing in the preseason to make me think the Browns can be even remotely competitive with him at QB. Give Johnny a chance to learn by getting real experience and see if he's worth anything at all. It'll be painful at first, but who knows what he might do once he gets his footing.

As my high school football coach always said, "You don't lose with age, you lose with youth." In other words, if you're going to lose games, it's pointless to do it with veterans. You lose with youth so they can gain experience and so you can determine if those guys are worthwhile in the first place.

This is a myth.

Hoyer is coming off a horrible injury/recovery process while learning a brand new offense, just like Manziel. Hoyer deserves the benefit of the doubt based on his short-lived success last year. I would prefer Hoyer to look better in the games than Manziel based on his NFL experience, but they're both learning a brand new offense. I do believe Hoyer has separated himself through practices based on everything we've heard-- I don't think either QB is the answer, to be honest.

If you don't think you gain anything by starting Hoyer, then think again. You said it yourself, starting Manziel would be painful at first, well, who DOES benefit? It doesn't benefit Mike Pettine. It doesn't benefit Manziel. It doesn't benefit the Cleveland Browns. You play him when he's ready, which he's clearly not at this point.

P.S. Your high school coach sounds like an idiot. You play the players who give you the best chance to win that day.

 

[godfather]

This is a myth.

Hoyer is coming off a horrible injury/recovery process while learning a brand new offense, just like Manziel. Hoyer deserves the benefit of the doubt based on his short-lived success last year. I would prefer Hoyer to look better in the games than Manziel based on his NFL experience, but they're both learning a brand new offense. I do believe Hoyer has separated himself through practices based on everything we've heard-- I don't think either QB is the answer, to be honest.

If you don't think you gain anything by starting Hoyer, then think again. You said it yourself, starting Manziel would be painful at first, well, who DOES benefit? It doesn't benefit Mike Pettine. It doesn't benefit Manziel. It doesn't benefit the Cleveland Browns. You play him when he's ready, which he's clearly not at this point.

P.S. Your high school coach sounds like an idiot. You play the players who give you the best chance to win that day.

You make it sound like Hoyer is a veteran QB that's had success in this league. He earns the benefit of the doubt? For what? Because he won three damn games in the NFL (more like two). Are you kidding me! Our standards are that bad, that a guy that wins two damn games in the NFL has earn the right to be the starter? Gimme break.

He's a career backup! The guy was cut two different times. Why? Because he's not that good.

How do you know when Manziel is ready? From practice, learning the playbook? Please.. Playing the QB is a learning process, you really think he's going to learn on the sidelines? We will never know when he's ready until we PLAY HIM.

This team is not that good, there's no harm in allowing your first round pick play, and actually learn with REAL PLAYING TIME, than sitting on the sidelines, with a clipboard, and watching Hoyer get his ass lit up. Yeah, some great learning experience that is.

There's only one obvious answer, and that's start Johnny and get over this idea Hoyer can seriously play as a starter in the NFL. He can't, he clearly is what he is, and that's a backup at best.

Only the Cleveland Browns would draft a QB in the first round, but then start a career backup as the starter instead. We're not going anywhere, It's fine if Johnny struggles. How the hell is he going to grow, without at least playing, struggling, and then learning from that?

 

[Pick6]

Brian Hoyer looked really good last night.

 

[Pick6]

If some of you want to keep pretending Manziel deserves to start, go ahead... but even he stopped making that argument five days ago. Let's just get one thing straight: Manziel played most of the preseason so far with Browns first teamers against opponent's second teamers. Aside from two series in Washington, he has had advantages that he won't have in the regular season. When good journalists like Tom Reed and Pat McManamon are saying Manziel doesn't look ready for NFL Sundays, they aren't bashing the guy. They are seeing him struggle mightily in situations designed to inflate his success.

No he hasn't. He has played with 2nd stringers the whole preseason with the exception of a few drives against Washington. And that was only because of Pettine's genius 2 and 2 rotation.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

The big advantage Hoyer had over Manziel was that the ball came out faster. I'm not sure that's true anymore.

Manziel is much more able to extend plays and seems to have a stronger/better arm. The only thing Hoyer still has is that he's a veteran who has seen more NFL defenses.

This is a problem that will solve itself rather quickly. If Hoyer struggles, he'll get yanked at the bye week and replaced. Maybe even before if he's horrendous. Or, if he plays well, the QB question is solved that way.

If you're a Manziel supporter, it's better to have Hoyer start and flop before starting Manziel. That way, he'll be allowed rookie struggles without getting yanked because everyone (especially the coaches) will already have confirmed that Hoyer isn't the answer. It's just cleaner this way.

 

[Pick6]

http://deadspin.com/peyton-manning-...source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

Could you imagine if Manziel did this?! The board would be blowing up with how immature he is, not ready to be a starting QB, etc, etc.

 

[Tornicade]

MAnziel is the guy who jets off to vegas. He is the guy doing outlandish things at parties. He is the guy who flips off the opposing teams sidelines. This is Manziel Thats who the Browns Drafted.

He is this generations Joe Broadway.

As far as the offense is concern. Kyle Shanahan has twice with completely different rosters seen his offense adapted by young player and see it excel.

Delay of game penalties. botched formations thats all part of the package with a rookie quarterback and new offensive system.

I didnt mind seeing him flip off the redskins. everyone should. it shows emotion and it fired Manziel up. in the game last night he was reacting to bad plays setting expectations for his line and just as instantly moving onto the next play.