Addressing the hole at center

[NasstyNate]

OK fine, but he makes 15 million a year. To get him, you have to trade Waiters, Haywood, Thompson and Amundson to get the salaries to work. Do you really feel comfortable giving away all that without even seeing what this team can do yet?

I think that is the best possible trade that we can make and would immediately make Griffin GM of the year. Thompson is overpaid right now, let alone what his next deal will be. Waiters, while I like him, does not add much to the team right now unless he increases his defense twofold, and is set up to leave anyway when he hits RFA.

It makes us the best offensive and a top 2 defensive team in the East. So yes, I make that deal right now.

 

[Cashius X]

I think that is the best possible trade that we can make and would immediately make Griffin GM of the year. Thompson is overpaid right now, let alone what his next deal will be. Waiters, while I like him, does not add much to the team right now unless he increases his defense twofold, and is set up to leave anyway when he hits RFA.

It makes us the best offensive and a top 2 defensive team in the East. So yes, I make that deal right now.

Where you lost all credibility and where I stopped reading...

 

[NasstyNate]

Where you lost all credibility and where I stopped reading...

After the forum change, the bold a section LOL replies aren't really effective. Not that they were before.

Do you have a criticism?

 

[Randolphkeys]

Thompson will be making 5.1 million this season. For a PF/C in his early 20s who deserves around 20-30 minutes a game, that is a good deal. The concern comes from that 6.7 qualifying offer next season.

 

[NasstyNate]

Thompson will be making 5.1 million this season. For a PF/C in his early 20s who deserves around 20-30 minutes a game, that is a good deal. The concern comes from that 6.7 qualifying offer next season.

We agree about the worth of an early 20s player in a vacuum. However, with this specific player, in this specific situation, we are asking TT to play a Reggie Evans role, which should be accompanied by a commensurate salary of around vet minimum. Because that is TT's skill set and role. And therefore makes him overpaid.

 

[Randolphkeys]

We agree about the worth of an early 20s player in a vacuum. However, with this specific player, in this specific situation, we are asking TT to play a Reggie Evans role, which should be accompanied by a commensurate salary of around vet minimum. Because that is TT's skill set and role. And therefore makes him overpaid.

I don't think the NBA agrees with your assessment of what Thompson can bring to the table, and GMs have set the price for a PF/C. Chuck Hayes is making close to 6 million this year. The ghost of Chris Kaman's game is making an average of 5 a year. Spencer Hawes went from being dumped for a second rounder to averaging almost 6 million long term. These guys are 20-30 minute big men.

Size gets you paid, always has been that way.

 

[NasstyNate]

I don't think the NBA agrees with your assessment of what Thompson can bring to the table, and GMs have set the price for a PF/C. Chuck Hayes is making close to 6 million this year. The ghost of Chris Kaman's game is making an average of 5 a year. Spencer Hawes went from being dumped for a second rounder to averaging almost 6 million long term. These guys are 20-30 minute big men.

Size gets you paid, always has been that way.

Again, we mostly agree. I don't think the NBA has had a chance to value Thompson specifically, and their track record is more often than not wrong anyway as per your cites. I will slightly differentiate and say you chose centers, which always have more value, and of which TT is not. I'm not ready to just call him a center because we might need him to play there.

My hope is Griffin realizes that TT does not offer anything outside of decent rebounding and does not overpay him. My even greater hope is we trade him before the rest of the NBA figures that out. If we can get an absolute defensive beast in return, then I am ecstatic.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Yeah, finding specific examples of overpaid power forwards is a waste of my time, Jason Maxiel, Amir Johnson, Drew Gooden, Charlie Villanueva... You either paid attention the past ten years or you didn't. Your argument makes me question how much you paid attention, sorry.

Thompson's defense has been overrated for the past two years and I've said as much. I've heard some arguments that some of that might have been scheme under Mike Brown. We will find out for ourselves during the next month or two.

He might also take a few steps forward being on the floor with a bunch of All Stars in that starting lineup and be able to just focus on dirty work, making him seem worth a lot more than 6 million a year.

 

[Cashius X]

After the forum change, the bold a section LOL replies aren't really effective. Not that they were before.

Do you have a criticism?

My criticism was that you said TT was overpaid right now. That's a ridiculous opinion to have...especially when his next contract is expected to be more lucrative than what he's getting paid right now.

 

[Scholar]

Again, we mostly agree. I don't think the NBA has had a chance to value Thompson specifically, and their track record is more often than not wrong anyway as per your cites. I will slightly differentiate and say you chose centers, which always have more value, and of which TT is not. I'm not ready to just call him a center because we might need him to play there.

My hope is Griffin realizes that TT does not offer anything outside of decent rebounding and does not overpay him. My even greater hope is we trade him before the rest of the NBA figures that out. If we can get an absolute defensive beast in return, then I am ecstatic.

You did notice that Randolph included Chuck Hayes, didn't you? The PF masquerading as a center. A 6'6" center at that. If Hayes can be considered a center, then so can Tristan.

Anyways, players who have averaged nearly a double double are certainly worth what Tristan is presently being paid. I agree with Mr Keys that his next contract is the one where the issue of being over paid is going to likely come up. Not really seeing much grounds to support your stand here.

 

[NasstyNate]

Yeah, finding specific examples of overpaid power forwards is a waste of my time, Jason Maxiel, Amir Johnson, Drew Gooden, Charlie Villanueva... You either paid attention the past ten years or you didn't. Your argument makes me question how much you paid attention, sorry.

Thompson's defense has been overrated for the past two years and I've said as much. I've heard some arguments that some of that might have been scheme under Mike Brown. We will find out for ourselves during the next month or two.

He might also take a few steps forward being on the floor with a bunch of All Stars in that starting lineup and be able to just focus on dirty work, making him seem worth a lot more than 6 million a year.

First, pay attention to what I am saying before you condescendingly pat me on my head for my ignorance. I have said several times that I agree with you. Players get signed to contracts that are mistakes in the long run all of the time, forward or center. Smart teams should avoid those kind of contracts. My position is I think you might as well add TT to your list of overpaid bigs the moment he signs for anything over what he is making right now. I don't care how the league values him.

 

[NasstyNate]

You did notice that Randolph included Chuck Hayes, didn't you? The PF masquerading as a center. A 6'6" center at that. If Hayes can be considered a center, then so can Tristan.

Anyways, players who have averaged nearly a double double are certainly worth what Tristan is presently being paid. I agree with Mr Keys that his next contract is the one where the issue of being over paid is going to likely come up. Not really seeing much grounds to support your stand here.

Ok. Forget the nitpicking about certain examples. I was wrong to make the distinguishing comment in the first place. There are two arguments being made 1 - Randolphkeys and you, correctly, are saying that big men averaging around a double double get paid in the NBA and 2 - I am saying TT, while he may be putting those numbers up on a terrible team, does not have the skill set and positive impact on the game to be worth that kind of contract, and will hurt this team in the long run if signed to such a deal. I would like to trade him for Roy Hibbert, the topic of this thread.

 

[Randolphkeys]

First, pay attention to what I am saying before you condescendingly pat me on my head for my ignorance. I have said several times that I agree with you. Players get signed to contracts that are mistakes in the long run all of the time, forward or center. Smart teams should avoid those kind of contracts. My position is I think you might as well add TT to your list of overpaid bigs the moment he signs for anything over what he is making right now. I don't care how the league values him.

I read you say he is getting overpaid right now, as Cassius mentioned. If you are backing off, cool. The ideal situation is one where Thompson agrees to a fair contract to remain a Cavalier now that we are a favorite to win. Nobody knows if he will look like a guy who should be making 7-8 million this season yet, the season where he plays next to Love, LBJ, and Irving hasn't been played yet.

 

[NasstyNate]

I read you say he is getting overpaid right now, as Cassius mentioned. If you are backing off, cool. The ideal situation is one where Thompson agrees to a fair contract to remain a Cavalier now that we are a favorite to win. Nobody knows if he will look like a guy who should be making 7-8 million this season yet, the season where he plays next to Love, LBJ, and Irving hasn't been played yet.

My statement that he is overpaid now was hyperbole in an effort to be clever in saying that TT is basically slightly above a replacement level player. I think a lot of players in the league would have put up the same numbers and would not have looked like a robot programmed to play basketball doing it. Overpaid in the sense that many who are making less money could do it, not in the sense that he is not being paid his market value. I understand why people would not have read it as I intended and apologize.

 

[Clum-Z]

Yeah, finding specific examples of overpaid power forwards is a waste of my time, Jason Maxiel, Amir Johnson, Drew Gooden, Charlie Villanueva... You either paid attention the past ten years or you didn't. Your argument makes me question how much you paid attention, sorry.

Thompson's defense has been overrated for the past two years and I've said as much. I've heard some arguments that some of that might have been scheme under Mike Brown. We will find out for ourselves during the next month or two.

He might also take a few steps forward being on the floor with a bunch of All Stars in that starting lineup and be able to just focus on dirty work, making him seem worth a lot more than 6 million a year.

Well you can look back and say that Kenneth Faried, Tobias Harris, and Terrance Jones make well under 2 mill each and have the same if not better production as Tristian, And to be honest I'd much rather have any of those three.