Dion Waiters Traded

[Cavatt]

Of course Dion can "grow and thrive" here. That's obviously a possibility. But it's an open question whether or not he will actually do so.

Probably because we saw him take good strides in this area last year. Plus when the offense has been clicking he has looked great. When it bogs down he goes for it himself.

 

[Rich]

I unapologetically gave you the "old" ranking instead for the played out take on Dion being a chucker and not being a guy who can totally grow and thrive in this system and with this collection of players. Also old and stale is using the dumpster fire of the past two years(his first two in the league) as some sort of barometer for what we'll see in the coming years. Dumb, if I would have used it, would have been reserved for making this analysis of of a set of games in which at least 1 but often 2 of Love, LeBron, and Kyrie have been out. And in the preseason at that. 5 preseason games. Dion is confident and brash and those traits serve him well. He is nowhere near JRSmith Land

Yea ok. Meanwhile, the last month and a half of the season are used as examples by many to argue how good he'll eventually be.

There his only years in the league. They are the best information we have to go on. How that's old and stale I have no idea.

 

[CosmoKramer]

Yea ok. Meanwhile, the last month and a half of the season are used as examples by many to argue how good he'll eventually be.

This again?

There his only years in the league. They are the best information we have to go on. How that's old and stale I have no idea.

They're.

And it's old and stale to say Dion can't fit in the offense using his first two seasons now that he's looked fine in Blatt's offense so far. It took all of two bad shooting nights in the preseason to start seeing promises that he can't accept his role here again, it's like his strong play in the two previous games just goes completely ignored. He's looked like our fourth best player at times already, and he's had positive sequences with every one of LeBron, Love and Kyrie.

As long as Dion is knocking down 3s (38% this preseason, which continues his gradual improvement) and giving effort on defense he's going to be a positive contributor and a fine compliment to our Big 3.

 

[Rich]

This again?



They're.

And it's old and stale to say Dion can't fit in the offense using his first two seasons now that he's looked fine in Blatt's offense so far. It took all of two bad shooting nights in the preseason to start seeing promises that he can't accept his role here again, it's like his strong play in the two previous games just goes completely ignored. He's looked like our fourth best player at times already, and he's had positive sequences with every one of LeBron, Love and Kyrie.

As long as Dion is knocking down 3s (38% this preseason, which continues his gradual improvement) and giving effort on defense he's going to be a positive contributor and a fine compliment to our Big 3.

That should be a period and the start of a second sentence or a semi-colon. Don't be a dick.

I hate just totally discounting two seasons worth of information simply because it doesn't help an argument out. It's lazy.

 

[Rich]

I've got no idea how to edit a post now so I'm going to double post.

It took all of two bad shooting nights in the preseason to start seeing promises that he can't accept his role here again, it's like his strong play in the two previous games just goes completely ignored.

I don't know who this was direct at but because you quoted me and only me I'll assume it's me. I made no promises of the sort. I also didn't ignore his strong play in prior games. So you've got the wrong guy here.

 

[melecoaze]

Why do people get so defensive when someone says something about Dion?

 

[CleveRocks]

Because some of the posts are emotionally biased. Dion has been polarizing to the board since he was selected. There are quite a few that did not want Dion and wont let that go.

My position is: Right or wrong he is our guy and we win if he achieves his potential..

He will either become Joe Dumars, or Eric Gordon... That is squarely between his ears.

 

[Jack Brickman]

He will either become Joe Dumars, or Eric Gordon... That is squarely between his ears.

What did Eric Gordon do that was so terrible? It seems to me that he was a promising young player who had his career somewhat derailed by a total inability to stay healthy for sustained periods of time.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Because some of the posts are emotionally biased. Dion has been polarizing to the board since he was selected. There are quite a few that did not want Dion and wont let that go.

My position is: Right or wrong he is our guy and we win if he achieves his potential..

I don't follow college b-ball so I didn't know who he was when we drafted. Had no opinion on him when he was drafted, and didn't have a preference for anyone else at that point, either.

But I am biased towards guys I think are smart players, and I'm also biased in favor of self-actualizing types versus those who crave recognition by others. I think the first is a plus, and it is very easy for the second to become a minus. I admit Dion rubs me the wrong way because of his clear craving for recognition by other people. Doesn't mean he can't become a very good player, or that he can't outgrow that. But unless he does outgrow that facet of his personality, I think there will always be issues with him accepting whatever his role is. I think that type of personality is what doomed Iverson to having less of a career than he might otherwise have been able to have, IMHO. Still a great, HOF player, but never was as great an asset to a team as he could have been had he not thought it was all about him. By the time he started figuring that out, his skills had eroded.

People can grow up at different speeds, and I hope Dion does.

He will either become Joe Dumars, or Eric Gordon... That is squarely between his ears.

Not saying he doesn't have the ability to be a great player, but he'll never be Dumars, who was one of the smartest, highest bb IQ players of all time. I think that's setting the bar unfairly high for Dion.

 

[CosmoKramer]

That should be a period and the start of a second sentence or a semi-colon. Don't be a dick.

I hate just totally discounting two seasons worth of information simply because it doesn't help an argument out. It's lazy.

Still hurting from getting embarrassed by Jacksonville, sorry for being a dick.

I don't think MirORich was saying to totally discount Dion's first two seasons, just that they can't be used to write off Dion as an unapologetic chucker. They really weren't even bad for a 22-year-old.

Dion averaged 16/3/3 on 43/37/69 splits in less than 30 minutes a game last year. As others have noted, Bradley Beal had an average line of 17/3/4 on 42/40/79 splits in a little more than four minutes a game. Their per 36 numbers are even closer, with Dion actually edging out Beal in scoring and TS%.

Is that really enough for anyone to say Dion can't coexist with David Blatt, after he's looked fine in the preseason so far? I truly don't get it.

I've got no idea how to edit a post now so I'm going to double post.

I don't know who this was direct at but because you quoted me and only me I'll assume it's me. I made no promises of the sort. I also didn't ignore his strong play in prior games. So you've got the wrong guy here.

A few posts up AmirT0 was making those claims, which was the post MiroRich was questioning. Didn't mean to solely direct my post at you, should have quoted him as well.

 

[Cavatt]

Uhh of course you use his first two seasons to judge him' He improved both years. You act like his first two years he was spinning his wheels. He ran the team to a series of wins at the end of the year that almost got them to the playoffs.

 

[AmirT0]

Question. Do you consider Bradley Beal a chucker?

In honesty didn't see enough of him. Don't care much for the Wizards. He looked good to me in Playoff. Don't think I saw him do anything detrimental to the team.

Anyway, this discussion is a bit premature as we don't have any idea how Dion would handle himself when all big 3 are playing. I just don't like guys who are selfish and are delusional about their own talent level.

You can say what you want but does Dion have the attitude/mentality of Kawhi Leonard?DeMar DeRozen?Clearly not. Is he a better player to justify the considerably bigger ego? not at this moment. So for me it is like..what gives? You are not a better player so just check your frikkin attitude.

Having said that, again, this needs to play out. For me personally I do not trust these type of guys not to cause problems.

 

[OptimusPrime]

Speaking of detrimental to the team, here are the plus/minus numbers so far this preseason, for what it's worth.

Kevin Love +13.3 per game, +53 total
Dion Waiters +10.6 per game, +53 total
LeBron James +9.3 per game, +37 total
Matthew Dellavedova +8.8 per game, +44 total
Kyrie Irving +5.5 per game, +11 total
Tristan Thompson +3.5 per game, +14 total
Anderson Varejao +2.8 per game, +11 total
Shawn Marion +2.0 per game, +8 total
Mike Miller -5.8 per game, -29 total

 

[Typhoon]

In honesty didn't see enough of him. Don't care much for the Wizards. He looked good to me in Playoff. Don't think I saw him do anything detrimental to the team.

Anyway, this discussion is a bit premature as we don't have any idea how Dion would handle himself when all big 3 are playing. I just don't like guys who are selfish and are delusional about their own talent level.

You can say what you want but does Dion have the attitude/mentality of Kawhi Leonard?DeMar DeRozen?Clearly not. Is he a better player to justify the considerably bigger ego? not at this moment. So for me it is like..what gives? You are not a better player so just check your frikkin attitude.

Having said that, again, this needs to play out. For me personally I do not trust these type of guys not to cause problems.

Id rather who have a player who (while potentially delusional) believes in himself than one who has the attitude of a loser. We have yet to see if Dion's outlook will drive his performance to be one in pursuit of personal accolade or if it will encourage selfless behavior for the benefit of the team. Likely it will be a blend of both, just like LeBron, Love, and many others. It's preseason - let's wait until the real season starts before we make bold proclamations about Dion being a cancer who can't check his ego at the door or not, ya?

 

[BimboColesHair]

In honesty didn't see enough of him. Don't care much for the Wizards. He looked good to me in Playoff. Don't think I saw him do anything detrimental to the team.

Anyway, this discussion is a bit premature as we don't have any idea how Dion would handle himself when all big 3 are playing. I just don't like guys who are selfish and are delusional about their own talent level.

You can say what you want but does Dion have the attitude/mentality of Kawhi Leonard?DeMar DeRozen?Clearly not. Is he a better player to justify the considerably bigger ego? not at this moment. So for me it is like..what gives? You are not a better player so just check your frikkin attitude.

Having said that, again, this needs to play out. For me personally I do not trust these type of guys not to cause problems.

I ask that because all we hear is how Bradley Beal is a perfect off ball guard, has a pretty jumper, is Ray Allen's love child, etc. You never hear about him getting the chucker label from anyone like we see with Dion (you just did this in this thread to prove that for us). Yet he shot a lower percentage from floor than Dion last year, took more FGAs than Dion and was right around the same as Dion in the Per36 and Per100 Possessions FGAs, had a lower TS% than Dion, and the same exact eFG% as Dion. He also had a lower assist rate than Dion last year. Yet Dion is a chucker and Beal is hot shit at the SG position?