The Brian Hoyer thread...

[Mr. Orange]

I've been more than willing to get into draft discussions during my time here. Predicting guys that will and won't make it, I've always given my reasoning one way or the other.

For every Brandon Weeden I've predicted will fail miserably, there has been an Odell Beckham, Brandin Cooks or Deone Buchanan who I'll bring up in October before they start skyrocketing to first round pick status and have great careers.

Never going to get them all, but I think more than a few can attest to it around here. I can say the same about some of them, and there's a reason this board is better than any others when it comes to the Browns discussion. This is one of them...

I can vouch for you on Beckham and Cooks. I feel like you were a Bitonio fan too. I am hoping you are right about Gilbert.

 

[AZ_]

I can vouch for you on Beckham and Cooks. I feel like you were a Bitonio fan too. I am hoping you are right about Gilbert.

Definitely was a Bitonio guy, and Xavier Sua-Filo too (though he hasn't gotten much run in Houston).

 

[Randolphkeys]

And whether B00bie likes it or not, Ben asked me point-blank to be more active in the Browns forum on interpersonal conflicts. As I wrote to B00bie years ago, I've never had issue with his evaluations of players, its the argument baiting that gets problematic.

Hoyer should expect articles like the ESPN article after the Atlanta game but this is a fickle sport. One game like he had against the Bengals and we are back to the "Cleveland must choose their QB of the future" doom and gloom.

The truth is that Hoyer and Manziel can coexist while Johnny grows up, and the cost might not be as prohibitive as the media makes it out.

 

[Soda]

Guilty...

I engage with b00bs a lot. I'm not big on being conceited or watching people that are conceited act conceited. So when there's no reasoning with a poster (not just b00b), I usually point out the hypocrisy of it. Rarely is anyone always right, regardless of how highly they think of their opinion. Myself included.

 

[jlj3184]

Want to revisit a conversation we were having earlier this season, now that we've all (lovers and haters) had more time to evaluate his play.

I'm looking for some "Hoyer guys" to break the following QBs into tiers and place Hoyer where he belongs, respectively, in his tier. Reason I ask is because I was debating this with some buddies last night. We have our tier and placement as "non-Hoyer guys", I'm just trying to see how big the gap is.

Brady, P. Manning, E. Manning, Luck, Rodgers, Brees, Stafford, Tannehill, Roethlisberger, Rivers, Orton, Palmer, Romo, Wilson, Cutler, A. Smith, Flacco, Ryan, Kaepernick, Fitzpatrick, Dalton, Davis, Newton, McCown, Sanchez

EDIT: Alex Smith, not Geno Smith. I think everyone agrees Geno is worse than Hoyer.

 

[Soda]

I'll give it a go. No particular ranking within the tiers and I can be convinced to move some guys.

Tier 1 (Unquestioned Leaders/Offensive Focal Points)

P. Manning, A. Rodgers, D. Brees, T. Brady, A. Luck, B. Roethlisberger

Tier 2 (Solid Starters)

M. Stafford, T. Romo, R. Wilson, R. Tannehill, M. Ryan, A. Dalton

Tier 3 (It Could Be Better)

C. Kapernick, C. Newton, B. Hoyer, E. Manning, K. Orton, C. Palmer, J. Cutler, J. Flacco

Tier 4 (When's the Draft?)

G. Smith, A. Davis, J. McCown, M. Sanchez

 

[Randolphkeys]

Here's what I had before reading Soda:

Tier 1 - All Pro Candidates: Luck, Rodgers, Peyton, Brady

Tier 2 - Top Ten Locks: Brees, Rivers, Roethlisberger

Tier 3 - In the Circle of Trust: Wilson, Ryan, Romo


Tier 4 - Sweaty Palm Starters: Eli, Flacco, Smith, Kaepernick, Newton

Tier 5 - Antacid Starters: Tannehill, Stafford, Hoyer, Dalton, Cutler

Tier 6 - This Might Work Out, What Choice Do We Have? Bortles, Carr, McCown, Bridgewater, The Ghost of Palmer

Tier 7 - Backups: Everyone else

 

[CosmoKramer]

I'll give it a go. No particular ranking within the tiers and I can be convinced to move some guys.

Tier 1 (Unquestioned Leaders/Offensive Focal Points)

P. Manning, A. Rodgers, D. Brees, T. Brady, A. Luck, B. Roethlisberger

Tier 2 (Solid Starters)

M. Stafford, T. Romo, R. Wilson, R. Tannehill, M. Ryan, A. Dalton

Tier 3 (It Could Be Better)

C. Kapernick, C. Newton, B. Hoyer, E. Manning, K. Orton, C. Palmer, J. Cutler, J. Flacco

Tier 4 (When's the Draft?)

G. Smith, A. Davis, J. McCown, M. Sanchez

No Phillip Rivers? I'd personally have him, Newton, Cutler, and Kaepernick as solid starters over Andy Dalton.

 

[DJTJ]

Here's what I had before reading Soda:

Tier 1 - All Pro Candidates: Luck, Rodgers, Peyton, Brady

Tier 2 - Top Ten Locks: Brees, Rivers, Roethlisberger

Tier 3 - In the Circle of Trust: Wilson, Ryan, Romo


Tier 4 - Sweaty Palm Starters: Eli, Flacco, Smith, Kaepernick, Newton

Tier 5 - Antacid Starters: Tannehill, Stafford, Hoyer, Dalton, Cutler

Tier 6 - This Might Work Out, What Choice Do We Have? Bortles, Carr, McCown, Bridgewater, The Ghost of Palmer

Tier 7 - Backups: Everyone else

I think Hoyer is in the Dalton/Cutler camp rather than the Tannehill/Stafford camp. Both of those two would make this team undoubtedly better.

 

[AZ_]

No love for Tannehill, @Randolphkeys

 

[Randolphkeys]

Tannehill has jumped up a tier since the last time I did this. He has put in a great month. I moved Stafford down one tier because he was brutal without Megatron... and this isn't the first.

 

[The Oi]

Brees still belongs in the top 5 IMO.

And I don't think Rivers and Roeth belong in the same category as him. Rivers, Romo, Ryan and Roeth all fall in the same category for me.

 

[jlj3184]

These are my tiers (players ranked in order in each tier):
Tier 1: P. Manning, Rodgers, Brady
Tier 2: Luck, Brees, Roethlisberger, Romo, Rivers, Stafford
Tier 3: Ryan, E. Manning, Newton, Wilson, Flacco, Kaepernick, A. Smith, Cutler
Tier 4: Tannehill, Palmer, Dalton
Tier 5: Orton, Hoyer, Davis, McCown, Sanchez, Fitzpatrick
Tier 6: RG3, G. Smith

Unranked: Bortles, Carr, Bridgewater, Tennessee

 

[Marbles]

my 2 cents, not in an exact order but just in in these tiers.

Top Shelf
Aaron Rodgers - Brady - P. Manning - Luck - Brees

Next up
Roethlisberger - Romo - Rivers - Ryan

Not quite great
Palmer - Wilson - Stafford - Tannehill - Newton - Flacco

Serviceable
Smith - Kaepernick - Cutler - Hoyer - E. Manning - Dalton

Leftovers
Sanchez - McCown - Davis - Fitzpatrick

I haven't gone back and read every posts on here i just kinda scan here and there but i dont have a final verdict on hoyer yet. i think he looks manageable, IF manziel is the browns QB of the future so far i'm ok with him learning behind hoyer for a little bit. so far i think hoyer has done pretty decent behind a line that's learning to work together, rookie RB's, and mediocre, at best, wide receivers. i think he's shown enough that if he doesn't start for the browns next year he'll start somewhere else.

 

[Randolphkeys]

You should be able to play half a season to be a solid starter, so I'm not too high on the ghost of Carson Palmer.