Dion Waiters Traded

[Tornicade]

Here was a table of stats you supplied that he pointed out were just wrong. Some of the numbers are just nonsense and I don't know how not have charts transfer could make this happen.



Formatted (sorta) to make it easier. First line is October, last march.
GP --MIN --FGM---FGA--FG%
1 ----5.3----1.0---2.0---50.0
11 ---8.1---1.5---3.1----47.1
11---10.4---2.2---4.8---45.3
15 ---9.0----2.2---4.7---46.5
6 ----9.6----1.7---4.5---37.0
14---10.0---2.2---5.4---40.8
5 ----7.3----2.2 ---3.2---68.8


Here is his sophmore year. First line October.

GP---MIN---FGM---FGA---FG%

1----29.4---5.0----12-----41.7
14---28.4---5.4----12.8---41.9
11---31.6---5.9----13.6---43.3
15---27.3---5.2----13.1---39.8
8----24.3---5.6----12.5---45.0
14---33.8---7.8----17.6--44.3
7----31.5---7.6----15.7---48.2


Nothing about this matches.

Rookie year. Again, just nothing.

GP---MIN---FGM---FGA---FG%

1----28.2---6.0---14.0---42.9
15---32.0---5.5---15.0---36.9
8----31.6---4.9----14.3---34.2

lets put that in context first. i was responding to richs assertion that Dion plays well 20 games and then bad 20 games.. and it isnt true.

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<tr class="tableizer-firstrow"><th>Value</th><th>G</th><th>GS</th><th>FGA</th><th>3PA</th><th>FTA</th><th>AST</th><th>FG%</th><th>3P%</th><th>FT%</th><th>TS%</th></tr>
<tr><td>October</td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td>12</td><td>3</td><td>0</td><td>2</td><td>0.42</td><td>0.33</td><td>&nbsp;</td><td>0.46</td></tr>
<tr><td>November</td><td>14</td><td>8</td><td>179</td><td>48</td><td>59</td><td>34</td><td>0.42</td><td>0.42</td><td>0.68</td><td>0.51</td></tr>
<tr><td>December</td><td>11</td><td>0</td><td>150</td><td>25</td><td>36</td><td>29</td><td>0.43</td><td>0.32</td><td>0.69</td><td>0.49</td></tr>
<tr><td>January</td><td>15</td><td>0</td><td>196</td><td>53</td><td>46</td><td>42</td><td>0.4</td><td>0.38</td><td>0.7</td><td>0.48</td></tr>
<tr><td>February</td><td>8</td><td>0</td><td>100</td><td>28</td><td>19</td><td>24</td><td>0.45</td><td>0.29</td><td>0.58</td><td>0.5</td></tr>
<tr><td>March</td><td>14</td><td>8</td><td>246</td><td>63</td><td>44</td><td>56</td><td>0.44</td><td>0.33</td><td>0.71</td><td>0.51</td></tr>
<tr><td>April</td><td>7</td><td>7</td><td>110</td><td>30</td><td>31</td><td>22</td><td>0.48</td><td>0.47</td><td>0.71</td><td>0.57</td></tr>
</table>
[/parsehtml]you can break it down further and look at the game logs.. Dion wasnt as streaky as the poste ri was responding to alluded to
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/waitedi01/splits/2014/

 

[Tornicade]

lol. his bad stretch is his entire career. way to make yourself look stupid. again.

I'm dissapointed in you Damien. I would think you were above insulting people.
I didn't name Dion a starter last season nor did i nae him a starter in the off season or at the beginning of the season. The Cavs organization did.

Moving Dion to the bench was more about trying to get Irving and Love to grow with veteran players around them who have proven themselves. This was made really obvious with Marion getting the nod. Its the same reason AV is starting over TT even though AV and love sometimes can step on each others toes trying to share the same real estate.

 

[Damien O'Connel]

I'm dissapointed in you Damien. I would think you were above insulting people.
I didn't name Dion a starter last season nor did i nae him a starter in the off season or at the beginning of the season. The Cavs organization did.

Moving Dion to the bench was more about trying to get Irving and Love to grow with veteran players around them who have proven themselves. This was made really obvious with Marion getting the nod. Its the same reason AV is starting over TT even though AV and love sometimes can step on each others toes trying to share the same real estate.

What you said was ridiculous. I couldn't help myself.

First he got moved because he was a scapegoat. Then it was because it was Dion's idea. Now it's because we wanted Irving and Love to grow with veteran players.

You're pulling excuses out of your ass. The reason he got benched? Dion hasn't played well, and hasn't grasped the intricacies of NBA offensive and defensive concepts.

He hasn't produced. Bottom line. You can't sit there and say that he has.

And that's all that matters when you're competing with the big boys.

 

[Tornicade]

What you said was ridiculous. I couldn't help myself.

First he got moved because he was a scapegoat. Then it was because it was Dion's idea. Now it's because we wanted Irving and Love to grow with veteran players.

You're pulling excuses out of your ass. The reason he got benched? Dion hasn't played well, and hasn't grasped the intricacies of NBA offensive and defensive concepts.

He hasn't produced. Bottom line. You can't sit there and say that he has.

And that's all that matters when you're competing with the big boys.

It wasnt Dions Idea but Dion came out and said he offered to do it if it was best for the team and Blatt was willing to give him more time.

regardless Dion never should of been pulled after three games.. once again Irving shot 12 percent that third game noone was gonna bench him and have him come off the bench.

Dion is an NBA caliber starter and he has demonstrated that on the court.

I am really not putting any stock in Dion play off the bench right now but it really doesnt matter whether he starts or not. typically as Dion himself has said 2 of the big three is gonna be on the court.

However David was trolling about making bets about Dion being any better than an average role player and I responded my opinion.

Dion himself stated he wasn't a one dimensional catch and shoot guy and he is right. He wasn't used that way exclusively in the preseason and he wasnt getting many catch and shoot opportunities in his touches regardless at the beginning of the season. The guy is on his third coach and three years and has a coaching staff who all want to use him differently.

Im not concerned with Dions slow start

 

[David.]

i absolutely was not trolling, i want to cut through the shit and see whose faith remains when their assets are on the line, for dion to put up quantifiably good stats in a given period of time. That still stands. put up or shut up. dont have faith in the bet? maybe recosnider how much faith you have in dion

 

[Zen]

It wasnt Dions Idea but Dion came out and said he offered to do it if it was best for the team and Blatt was willing to give him more time.

There is no way that you actually believe that. Blatt swapped him because he was bad, Lebron tried to ease the blow by saying publicly that Dion was going to get more touches off the bench.

Dion stated from the pre-season on that he wanted to start.

 

[Damien O'Connel]

It wasnt Dions Idea but Dion came out and said he offered to do it if it was best for the team and Blatt was willing to give him more time.

regardless Dion never should of been pulled after three games.. once again Irving shot 12 percent that third game noone was gonna bench him and have him come off the bench.

Dion is an NBA caliber starter and he has demonstrated that on the court.

I am really not putting any stock in Dion play off the bench right now but it really doesnt matter whether he starts or not. typically as Dion himself has said 2 of the big three is gonna be on the court.

However David was trolling about making bets about Dion being any better than an average role player and I responded my opinion.

Dion himself stated he wasn't a one dimensional catch and shoot guy and he is right. He wasn't used that way exclusively in the preseason and he wasnt getting many catch and shoot opportunities in his touches regardless at the beginning of the season. The guy is on his third coach and three years and has a coaching staff who all want to use him differently.

Im not concerned with Dions slow start

excuse...excuse....excuse...

You haven't addressed his ACTUAL production. I didn't ask you if you were concerned. I challenged you to prove that Dion has produced enough this year to start on a championship contender.

No shit they didn't bench Irving. He's a 2-time all star, on a super-max contract, and the reigning Team USA MVP.

Dion has played above average NBA basketball for 1/4 of his career.

How should we use Dion? What is your proposal? Put him out top, have Love set a screen, then have LBJ and Kyrie space the floor?

Stick him in the corner to wait to spot-up, or drive and kick within the flow of the offense? (This hasn't worked, FYI).

3 coaches haven't "used him right". You know why? Cause he plays bad.

 

[Tornicade]

excuse...excuse....excuse...

You haven't addressed his ACTUAL production. I didn't ask you if you were concerned. I challenged you to prove that Dion has produced enough this year to start on a championship contender.

No shit they didn't bench Irving. He's a 2-time all star, on a super-max contract, and the reigning Team USA MVP.

Dion has played above average NBA basketball for 1/4 of his career.

How should we use Dion? What is your proposal? Put him out top, have Love set a screen, then have LBJ and Kyrie space the floor?

Stick him in the corner to wait to spot-up, or drive and kick within the flow of the offense? (This hasn't worked, FYI).

3 coaches haven't "used him right". You know why? Cause he plays bad.

Both Mike Brown and Byron Scott went back to Dion and he performed.

The same thing will happen with Blatt.

How to use Dion is simple. you let him play. He doesnt need people to space for him and take advantage of his versatility and keep in mind his mentors or major influences in his brief 3 years was a 2nd and third year Kyrie Irving, Jarret jack and CJ miles.
Irving is another story . there have been several times when he should of benched . it might have even helped his development
and not base his production stats that are weighed down by a bad start.

As David pointed out Dion's production overall since November has improved

and as Kyrie pointed out that guys coming of the bench dont have the luxury to establish a rhythm.

Mean while Dion has shown improvement in some areas.

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<tr class="tableizer-firstrow"><th></th><th>&nbsp;</th><th>&nbsp;</th><th>&nbsp;</th><th>&nbsp;</th><th>2-Pt Field Goals</th><th>3-Pt Field Goals</th><th>&nbsp;</th><th>&nbsp;</th></tr>
<tr><td>&nbsp;</td><td>&nbsp;</td><td>&nbsp;</td><td>&nbsp;</td><td>&nbsp;</td><td>&nbsp;</td><td>&nbsp;</td><td>Corner</td><td>&nbsp;</td></tr>
<tr><td>Season</td><td>0-3</td><td>4-10</td><td>16 <3</td><td>3P</td><td>%Ast'd</td><td>%Ast'd</td><td>%3PA</td><td>3P%</td></tr>
<tr><td>2012-13</td><td>0.31</td><td>0.33</td><td>0.41</td><td>0.31</td><td>0.31</td><td>0.76</td><td>0.18</td><td>0.25</td></tr>
<tr><td>2013-14</td><td>0.29</td><td>0.45</td><td>0.43</td><td>0.37</td><td>0.36</td><td>0.87</td><td>0.2</td><td>0.37</td></tr>
<tr><td>2014-15</td><td>0.29</td><td>0.44</td><td>0.38</td><td>0.27</td><td>0.5</td><td>0.88</td><td>0.42</td><td>0.4</td></tr>
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[/parsehtml]
Dion has been utilized on the corner threes and has improved on the corner shot.

He also takes his threes within the offense and while his others threes havent been landing. it a shot he has shown he can hit in the past

At the rim Dion has jumped to 57% thats a big increase from last season. Dion is still hitting his 10-16 feet at 44% and his percentage of shots from this range has dropped from 9% his rookie year to 3%. meanwhile his attempts from 16 feet to the perimeter has increased and his FG% from that range has decreased,

Dion has also been used at pg in a few games this season with mixed results and has shown a knack for it for it in short stretches.

Dion is the only guy so far not named love,Irving or james to have multiple 20 point games. and all three of them were shooting over 53%. He has also had at least 6 games scoring 15 or more points with only one of those games shooting less than 50%.

its way too early to write off Dion and making a premature change to the roster is likely to backfire. The expectation that Love and Irving should have some growing pains gelling in with lebron and that Waiters would not is unreasonable

 

[ice cream man]

I'd bet on Dion's potential, but not while he's on this team. How often is he gonna have the ball in his hands?? The team is holding him back more than Dion is holding himself back.
All he needs is:
1. Stop complaining to the refs. (Being as confident as he is does not need to change)
2. A more consistent shot.
He can shoot the ball. This will come.
3. Better IQ, especially on the defensive end.

Oh, and of course, he needs the opportunity. He needs the ball. (Believe it or not, LeBron can be really good off the ball! :O )
Pretty much no one in this league can stop Dion from penetrating.

 

[Zen]

I'd bet on Dion's potential, but not while he's on this team. How often is he gonna have the ball in his hands?? The team is holding him back more than Dion is holding himself back.
All he needs is:
1. Stop complaining to the refs. (Being as confident as he is does not need to change)
2. A more consistent shot.
He can shoot the ball. This will come.
3. Better IQ, especially on the defensive end.
.

Yeah well you could transform a custodian into a surgeon if:

1. he had a higher IQ
2. he developed the motor skills required to perform at that level to match his new IQ
3. he stops getting caught smoking weed on his break by his supervisor and then complaining that the guy is out to get him.


You say he can shoot the ball? He can't. He is a streaky shooter not a good one. Probball breakdown has an entire video showing why his shot is bad and he actually goes as far to say that his shot is broken. He is a subpar FT shooter which doesn't bode well either.

 

[Rich]

lets put that in context first. i was responding to richs assertion that Dion plays well 20 games and then bad 20 games.. and it isnt true.

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<tr class="tableizer-firstrow"><th>Value</th><th>G</th><th>GS</th><th>FGA</th><th>3PA</th><th>FTA</th><th>AST</th><th>FG%</th><th>3P%</th><th>FT%</th><th>TS%</th></tr>
<tr><td>October</td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td>12</td><td>3</td><td>0</td><td>2</td><td>0.42</td><td>0.33</td><td>&nbsp;</td><td>0.46</td></tr>
<tr><td>November</td><td>14</td><td>8</td><td>179</td><td>48</td><td>59</td><td>34</td><td>0.42</td><td>0.42</td><td>0.68</td><td>0.51</td></tr>
<tr><td>December</td><td>11</td><td>0</td><td>150</td><td>25</td><td>36</td><td>29</td><td>0.43</td><td>0.32</td><td>0.69</td><td>0.49</td></tr>
<tr><td>January</td><td>15</td><td>0</td><td>196</td><td>53</td><td>46</td><td>42</td><td>0.4</td><td>0.38</td><td>0.7</td><td>0.48</td></tr>
<tr><td>February</td><td>8</td><td>0</td><td>100</td><td>28</td><td>19</td><td>24</td><td>0.45</td><td>0.29</td><td>0.58</td><td>0.5</td></tr>
<tr><td>March</td><td>14</td><td>8</td><td>246</td><td>63</td><td>44</td><td>56</td><td>0.44</td><td>0.33</td><td>0.71</td><td>0.51</td></tr>
<tr><td>April</td><td>7</td><td>7</td><td>110</td><td>30</td><td>31</td><td>22</td><td>0.48</td><td>0.47</td><td>0.71</td><td>0.57</td></tr>
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[/parsehtml]you can break it down further and look at the game logs.. Dion wasnt as streaky as the poste ri was responding to alluded to
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/waitedi01/splits/2014/

Putting it in context? Did you see what was quoted from you? Your initial chart was totally mislabled and wrong. This chart you've just posted is completely different. So there is no context for that first chart, it was just wrong on many levels.

And again I'd like to point out that what I said about Dion being a streak shooter just played out. Take his last 20 games of last season and look at the first 20 games of this season.

 

[crabbyshark]

Haha so much passion in the Dion thread.

I'm opposed to trading Dion because the career arc of guards suggests Dion will get better, particularly if the Cavs get into a playoff series (yes, even in spite of what we've seen so far) and I think it's highly unlikely Kevin Love re-signs with the Cavs.

 

[TyGuy]

Haha so much passion in the Dion thread.

I'm opposed to trading Dion because the career arc of guards suggests Dion will get better, particularly if the Cavs get into a playoff series (yes, even in spite of what we've seen so far) and I think it's highly unlikely Kevin Love re-signs with the Cavs.

The career arc of guards that start out extremely mediocre their first three years in the league tends to trend up? I would love to see that data.

And it is highly unlikely that kevin love re-signs? What team with cap space will be in a better position to compete than the cavs?

 

[DatDudeZ3]

I love Dion Waiters like my son, but I think we need a player w/ a better fit.

 

[crabbyshark]

The career arc of guards that start out extremely mediocre their first three years in the league tends to trend up? I would love to see that data.

And it is highly unlikely that kevin love re-signs? What team with cap space will be in a better position to compete than the cavs?

And Westbrook (remember his chemistry issues with Durant?)http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/westbru01.html
Tony Parker http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/parketo01.html
Danny Green http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/greenda02.html
John Wall http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/walljo01.html
Steve Nash http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nashst01.html
Jimmy Butler http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/butleji01.html
Klay Thompson http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thompkl01.html
Chauncey Billups http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/billuch01.html
Rajon Rondo http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01.html

Look at Steve Nash and Klay Thompson. Look at any of those guys really. The Kevin Love stuff is off-topic.