Josh Gordon discussion

[macbdog]

Are folks forgetting he got suspended for the last game? The half assed effort he put in before that? The 'get me out of here' body language? Everyone thinks this is going to change after sitting out the year, or is everyone just assuming there will be a new coach/front office when he returns? I just don't see why folks think he is suddenly going to change after 5 years of not getting his act together. I would have to think the 3rd suspension in 4 years would have been a tipping point.

 

[Spectre]

I think we end up keeping him through this... cutting him doesn't make sense from a football/business standpoint.

Given all these suspensions, he doesn't even hit UFA until 2018. I understand the desire to send a message but it would be a kick in the nuts after sticking with him for so long to cut him and watch him pull a Cris Carter somewhere else. What good would it really do?

He's not going to do any more harm to the team on the suspended list than he would on the waiver wire and when/if he comes back, if he actually gets his life together, he'll still be on that dirt cheap rookie contract. If he rejoins the team and is still a mess or a distraction, cut him at that point.

It makes the most sense to plan for the future as though he doesn't exist and if he ever comes back and contributes, consider it a bonus. Just don't dump him right now for little/no added benefit.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

As others have said, cutting him might do him a favor financially, and why help someone who has screwed you over?

Keep him so that he can't possibly profit from this, and if he manages to stay clean for a year (ha-ha) trade him for a future conditional pick. There's no downside to that.

 

[Soda]

Are folks forgetting he got suspended for the last game? The half assed effort he put in before that? The 'get me out of here' body language? Everyone thinks this is going to change after sitting out the year, or is everyone just assuming there will be a new coach/front office when he returns? I just don't see why folks think he is suddenly going to change after 5 years of not getting his act together. I would have to think the 3rd suspension in 4 years would have been a tipping point.

Are you saying that this is all in support of cutting him?? Because I think it's the exact reason the Browns should hang onto him. Fuck that guy. If he wants a future in the NFL, he does it by helping this "dysfunctional" franchise.

I don't want to allow this kid the opportunity to say he "escaped" Cleveland and defame the City/organization by making it his scapegoat. All the while heading to a winning/sunny locale.. All brought to him because he's a fuck-up.

This kid's problems are so bad, Mike Lombardi was able to see that he was not a good guy to have on your roster.

 

[I-77 NORTH]

Mike Lobardi couldn't recognize two nuts if they were in front of him.

 

[Phills14]

I think we end up keeping him through this... cutting him doesn't make sense from a football/business standpoint.

Given all these suspensions, he doesn't even hit UFA until 2018. I understand the desire to send a message but it would be a kick in the nuts after sticking with him for so long to cut him and watch him pull a Cris Carter somewhere else. What good would it really do?

He's not going to do any more harm to the team on the suspended list than he would on the waiver wire and when/if he comes back, if he actually gets his life together, he'll still be on that dirt cheap rookie contract. If he rejoins the team and is still a mess or a distraction, cut him at that point.

It makes the most sense to plan for the future as though he doesn't exist and if he ever comes back and contributes, consider it a bonus. Just don't dump him right now for little/no added benefit.

@Spectre nails it here. Exactly my feelings.

 

[caf]

There are two sides to this coin, and neither side is right or wrong. Its just a differing view point.

One part of me wants to cut the guy. I don't care that it was only alcohol. Winning teams pay attention to, and obsess over the detail. This would send a clear message to the locker room that this shit will not stand. It doesn't matter if you have all the talent in the world. You toe the line, or you get cut.

Another part of me realizes that talent wins. When was the last time the Browns have had a player as explosive as Gordon at a skill position? These guys don't grow off of trees. And Gordon's contract situation is a very favorable. So why not keep him? It costs nothing to keep him.

Both of the above view points have been used on winning teams. So which one is right? The one that works. In this situation, however, there seem to be more positives to keeping Gordon than releasing him. I have a feeling the front office will see those positives as well.

 

[Marcus]

Another part of me realizes that talent wins. When was the last time the Browns have had a player as explosive as Gordon at a skill position? These guys don't grow off of trees. And Gordon's contract situation is a very favorable. So why not keep him? It costs nothing to keep him.

While I don't necessarily disagree with anything you posted at all, what's the point in this argument if that talent can't even stay on the field because of what he does off of it?

 

[caf]

While I don't necessarily disagree with anything you posted at all, what's the point in this argument if that talent can't even stay on the field because of what he does off of it?

I completely agree... But it costs nothing to keep him. Even if the odds are slim that he eventually gets it, why not see if it pans out? If you had a lottery ticket you wouldn't throw it out just because the odds are slim of winning. Hold on to the ticket for free and see if you hit it big.

 

[Marcus]

I completely agree... But it costs nothing to keep him. Even if the odds are slim that he eventually gets it, why not see if it pans out? If you had a lottery ticket you wouldn't throw it out just because the odds are slim of winning. Hold on to the ticket for free and see if you hit it big.

May as well hang on to him. At the very least, you prevent him from going anywhere and rebuilding his career in another city. If the dumbass wants to smoke and drink his way out of town, he's not going to do it for free.

 

[Norm]

...He had a second chance, and a third, and a fourth, and so on. At what point is enough, enough?

That's kinda the point. He and his agent played it off last off-season as he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, second hand smoke. Alright, fine, but me a man about it and grow up. Do what you're supposed to, to show that it wasn't your fault and you've learned from it. He clearly hasn't.

He may one day get it, but it looks as though right now, he doesn't. He's just a guy with a substance abuse history, only he's in the NFL, and everything is under the microscope once you're a celebrity.

I get that this time the test was reported for alcohol, but damn. Does this kid not realize that he's throwing away a professional sports career and with his talent, his next contract (if clean) would most likely make him the highest paid WR in the league. Every pun intended on that "highest" part.

 

[Norm]

I don't blame Josh. He probably only had alcohol in his system from being in close proximity to Johnny Manziel. A sort of contact drunk, if you will.

Second-hand Ale, I've heard of that.

 

[Soda]

I know someone will come in here and say he's an idiot or we're blowing Gordon's issues out of proportion, but Barkley's take FWIW..

"This is very personal to me,'' Barkley saidon ESPN's His and Hers show. "My brother is dead. He died in his early 40s, so I take all drug stuff seriously. And Josh Gordon is going to die if he keeps going on this road he's going.

"And like I said, I love my brother, I miss my brother, but when you get involved with alcohol and drugs and you can't control it, you look at (actor) Philip Seymour Hoffman (who died of an overdose last year). It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.''

When co-host Michael Smith remarked that Gordon's latest positive test, at least his sixth in the NFL, is a cry for help, Barkley said, "No, he's been crying for help. This is like the third time, he was ....suspended for a year before and it got reduced. He got suspended in college. It started in college and it's just not a matter of 'if,' it's a matter of 'when.' Something's bad's going to happen. ...''

Barkley noted that Gordon's indefinite ban by the NFL last season, which was later reduced to 10 games, wasn't enough to make him quit using.

"If last year didn't shake him up, he's not going to learn,'' said Barkley "And like I say, I have sympathy for people that have drug and alcohol problems. But man, it's going to end badly...these movies always end the same way. If you've got a family member who's dealing with alcohol and drug problems, most of the time the movie ends the same -- badly.''

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/01/charles_barkley_tells_espn_jos.html#incart_m-rpt-1

Everything Josh does has some kind of mitigating circumstances for he and for people who've supported him thus far. If he keeps thinking he just barely gets in trouble and that it's a matter of wrong place, wrong time, then he just might end up making a terminal mistake down the road.

It sucks because he doesn't seem like a Pacman Jones or Chris Henry type (i.e. nuts). He just doesn't ever make the right call.

 

[Binkster]

It sucks because he doesn't seem like a Pacman Jones or Chris Henry type (i.e. nuts). He just doesn't ever make the right call.

It seems to me that while he may not be cut out of the "thug" mold as it's often been referred for the aforementioned players, he is as equally (if not more so) lazy and idiotic.

It's just mind-blowing how long this shit has gone on. The guy may not be jailed, own guns, or die... But he will never put forth the effort to stay clean/produce in the NFL:

October '10 - Suspended from Baylor after police found Gordon and a team mate sleeping in a car with marijuana at a Taco Bell.

July '11 - Suspended from Baylor indefinitely after failing a drug test.

August '11 - Transfers to Utah. Fails drug test; Forced to sit out season - application for NFL supplemental draft denied for not submitting by deadline.

2012 - Selected by the Cleveland Browns in the second RD of supplemental draft.

June'13 - Suspended two games for violation of NFL's substance abuse policy.

May '14 - NFL announces Gordon's second violation of substance abuse policy - facing one year suspension.

May '14 - Cited for speeding 74 mph in a 60 mph limit - passenger is charged with marijuana possession.

July '14 - Arrested for DWI after being stopped speeding 50 mph in a 35 mph zone.

December 2014 - Browns suspend Gordon for the final game of the season for violating team rules

January 2015 - Gordon violates substance abuse program with failed test

So by my count that's:

• 1 count of Marijuana possession at Baylor (no legal ramifications); 2 if you count the "friend" who had marijuana in the traffic stop.
• 5 failed drug tests
• 1 DWI
• And if suspended for the year, that's 29 games suspended vs. 35 games played.

 

[Dungong]

I think Barkley is right, its only going to end badly for the guy, the question is how badly. Occasionally guys like this get their act together, but as has been pointed out, I see no signs of that happening.

Couldnt the guy have gotten into women or porn or something? Sure you might end up with a million kids or maybe a rape scandal or 2 (see Kobe and Roethlisberger) but it generally lets you keep playing, and the worse thing that happens health wise is a little bit of an STD, and a little syphillis in your urine wont get you suspended.