Should Vaccination be Mandatory

[Ohdang]

So I think the moral of the story here after reading that article is...Even educated and credentialed people can go insane.

 

[Otsego Mar]

So I think the moral of the story here after reading that article is...Even educated and credentialed people can go insane.

It would be in all of our best interest taking advice from someone fresh out of college with a master's in immunobiology or whatever it is you are an expert in. We salute you Ohdang.

 

[gourimoko]

Wow i havent read the whole thread and am gutted it took me so long to get to this but i have a good excuse. For the past week i have been reading it as 'should vacation be mandatory'

Anyway anti-vaccination groups are worst than homeopaths and vegans combined, because they actually cause deaths. That Dr should be stripped of any qualification he has still got and made to wear a giant foam cowboy hat. Then at least he will look as ridiculous as his opinion he's forcing on the public.

"plastic vaccine" WTF!

This all goes back to that prick andrew wakefield and his MMR autism bollocks. Haivng been in biochemistry and immunology at the time i had the pleasure of accessing his original paper via the lancet and oh my god what a pile of horse shit.

If you dont vaccinate your kids you are within your right as a parent, but you also have to accept that they have a significant increase in the chance of death from measles (ie above 0%). In the US education system i would encourage the public school system to require vaccination before admission to elimentary school, ive just googled this and it turns out to be true, so bravo! The UK has no requirement although we do force parents to opt out of all childhood vaccine and sign a piece of paper that essentially forces them to say 'i realise i am putting my child's health at risk'

This gets back up by the UNCRC (united nations convention for the rights of the child) which is law in the UK. Article 24 state a childs right to the best possible health.

Adam, I think the only point of contention here is the original thread title. "Should Vaccines Be Mandatory?"

If the answer is effectively no, they shouldn't then okay. Saying you just have to sign a paper to get around, as you describe, it doesn't sound "mandatory" to me. So again, nothing to argue.

Again the point of disagreement comes in when we start talking about forcing or mandating individuals (and their children) receive vaccinations.

 

[Ohdang]

It would be in all of our best interest taking advice from someone fresh out of college with a master's in immunobiology or whatever it is you are an expert in. We salute you Ohdang.

Fresh out of college? My masters is relatively new, but I've been doing this lab/research thing awhile. I'm turning 32 this year. I'll take that as a compliment to me looking young, though, so thanks.

I see that you've resorted to just trying to discredit what I say based on an incorrect assumption that I'm inexperienced and therefore untrustworthy as a source of information. That's usually what happens when people double down on a belief that doesn't have a factual basis.

I'm happy to listen to differing viewpoints when they've got sound logic or scientific research lending them credibility, but you have to do better than conspiracy theorist digest and its cousin end times daily. You want an example of an argument that I'm taking seriously even though I'm skeptical about its premise? @Notorious made claims about sugar that I found iffy (don't disagree about aspartame and the like, just the part about natural sugar). I don't think Sugar is worse than Measles, but I'm accepting the possibility because he gave me something credible that supported his position. When I have the free time I'll look into it and he might end up having enlightened me about something I thought was only dangerous if you didn't practice moderation.

And does it not strike you as ironic that the reason the anti-vaccination movement started was a guy tried to cash in on the panic caused by a fraudulent study about vaccines causing autism, the sources used to support the anti-vaccine point of view ask for money in their videos after trying to scare people as much as possible with debatable at best and outright false at worst information, and one of the main arguments coming from the anti-vaccination side is that vaccines are pushed on people to line the pockets of big medicine? Not sure if I'm the only one who noticed that.

And as Q-Tip pointed out:

Each vaccine has it's own risks and benefits.

The anti-vaccination crowd seems to selectively ignore this fact. I don't know how many times I've heard some talking head, that blonde woman from Fox News with tons of righteous indignation and no critical thinking ability comes to mind but there are plenty of others too, argue that vaccines aren't effective because so many people got a flu shot and then got the flu. Choosing to frame it like that where its lumping all vaccines into one group instead of saying flu vaccines specifically aren't that effective is exactly the type of deliberate misinformation I talked about in a previous post.

 

[Notorious]

Fair enough

 

[Notorious]

Wow i havent read the whole thread and am gutted it took me so long to get to this but i have a good excuse. For the past week i have been reading it as 'should vacation be mandatory'

Anyway anti-vaccination groups are worst than homeopaths and vegans combined, because they actually cause deaths. That Dr should be stripped of any qualification he has still got and made to wear a giant foam cowboy hat. Then at least he will look as ridiculous as his opinion he's forcing on the public.

"plastic vaccine" WTF!

This all goes back to that prick andrew wakefield and his MMR autism bollocks. Haivng been in biochemistry and immunology at the time i had the pleasure of accessing his original paper via the lancet and oh my god what a pile of horse shit.

If you dont vaccinate your kids you are within your right as a parent, but you also have to accept that they have a significant increase in the chance of death from measles (ie above 0%). In the US education system i would encourage the public school system to require vaccination before admission to elimentary school, ive just googled this and it turns out to be true, so bravo! The UK has no requirement although we do force parents to opt out of all childhood vaccine and sign a piece of paper that essentially forces them to say 'i realise i am putting my child's health at risk'

This gets back up by the UNCRC (united nations convention for the rights of the child) which is law in the UK. Article 24 state a childs right to the best possible health.

Serious question. Don't or can't vaccines cause death. I know when my buddy joined the Marines they had to get the small pox vaccine and they were warned 1 in 100,000 die from it. Or something close to that. So does that make vaxxers bad because they cause deaths. Pretty sure vaccines can kill people too.

For the record I'm neither pro nor against, We did slow down the schedule for our kids and eliminate stupid ones like chicken pox.

 

[Ohdang]

Serious question. Don't or can't vaccines cause death. I know when my buddy joined the Marines they had to get the small pox vaccine and they were warned 1 in 100,000 die from it. Or something close to that. So does that make vaxxers bad because they cause deaths. Pretty sure vaccines can kill people too.

For the record I'm neither pro nor against, We did slow down the schedule for our kids and eliminate stupid ones like chicken pox.

They absolutely can. That's 0.001% chance from the smallpox vaccine. The chance of death from actual smallpox I would imagine is a lot higher, though I don't have the percentage. Everyone's biochemistry is unique, you can have an anaphylactic reaction that can kill you from many things. Antibiotics changed the world when they accidentally discovered penicillin. Infection went from something that carried a significant risk of death to a minor inconvenience because of that discovery, but penicillin kills a small percentage of people due to allergic reactions. That's certainly unfortunate, but when weighed against the amount of people it saves its not really something I can understand anyone debating. But somehow people are doing just that with vaccinations, like they don't understand the correlation between being vaccinated against diseases that previously ravaged a large percentage of the world's population and the decline of incidences of those diseases currently.

In my opinion, the 3 greatest medical discoveries of all time are antibiotics, vaccines, and birth control. Why anyone would be anti any of those things is something I'll never understand.

 

[Jordan]

Serious question. Don't or can't vaccines cause death. I know when my buddy joined the Marines they had to get the small pox vaccine and they were warned 1 in 100,000 die from it. Or something close to that. So does that make vaxxers bad because they cause deaths. Pretty sure vaccines can kill people too.

For the record I'm neither pro nor against, We did slow down the schedule for our kids and eliminate stupid ones like chicken pox.

If you are worried about those odds I hope you don't drive a car...

 

[Notorious]

If you are worried about those odds I hope you don't drive a car...

I'm not worried about the odds. The guy I quoted said anti vaxxers are idiots because they kill people. Just asking if that means vaxxers are idiots as well.

 

[Otsego Mar]

200 Evidence-Based Reasons NOT To Vaccinate - FREE Research PDF Download!

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/200-evidence-based-reasons-not-vaccinate-free-research-pdf-download

The media, your pediatrician, politicians and health authorities like the CDC and FDA claim that vaccines are safe and effective. So why do hundreds of peer-reviewed studies indicate the opposite is true? Read, download, and share this document widely to provide the necessary evidence-based counterbalance to the pro-vaccination propaganda that has globally infected popular consciousness and discussion like an intractable disease.

GreenMedInfo.com has painstakingly collected over 300 pages of study abstracts culled directly from the National Library of Medicine's pubmed.gov bibliographic database on the wide-ranging adverse health effects linked to vaccines in the today's schedule (over 200 distinct adverse effects, including death), as well as numerous studies related to vaccine contamination, and vaccine failure in highly vaccine compliant populations.

PDF Link -
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/sites/d...5_anti_therapeutic_action_vaccination_all.pdf

 

[Cavatt]

There are people in poor countries that would love for their children to be vaccinated.

Once Polio comes back, and some kids get paralyzed, it will be different.

 

[Otsego Mar]

There are people in poor countries that would love for their children to be vaccinated.

Once Polio comes back, and some kids get paralyzed, it will be different.

Bill Gates would love for people in poor countries to have their kids vaccinated.

That kid should probably get his polio vaccine then, right?

 

[Otsego Mar]

Annual vaccination against influenza virus hampers development of virus-specific CD8⁺T-cell immunity in children.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21880755

 

[The Oi]

I think most are willing to agree the flu shot is pretty useless for a bulk of the population.

Has no bearing on the other ones though, at least in my mind.

 

[Otsego Mar]

I think most are willing to agree the flu shot is pretty useless for a bulk of the population.

Has no bearing on the other ones though, at least in my mind.

Interesting psychology......and I'm not buying it.