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The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread (includes spoilers)

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Kill Jaime and I'm done.

Then again, if they kill Jaime it pretty much means he's about to die in the books too I'd imagine when he confronts LSH.
I mean, you know Jamie's gonna die in the books. It's too Martinesque for that not to happen. It's gotta be the end to his redemptive arc, and I imagine he dies at the hands of Stoneheart, but not right at the beginning of TWoW. I imagine he survives that encounter somehow, does something he thinks will atone, and then she kills him anyway.
 
I mean, you know Jamie's gonna die in the books. It's too Martinesque for that not to happen. It's gotta be the end to his redemptive arc, and I imagine he dies at the hands of Stoneheart, but not right at the beginning of TWoW. I imagine he survives that encounter somehow, does something he thinks will atone, and then she kills him anyway.

Yeah, that sounds like a good death, I think I could live with that.

I just don't think his arc feels "finished" yet, even in the books. But I think if what you suggested happens, it'd be a very satisfying end to his character. Or, cliche as it sounds, him dying to save somebody. "The ultimate sacrifice" sort of thing.

Jaime is one of the few truly knightly characters (as ironic as that is) at this point in the story. But maybe that means he is going to get an untimely and gut wrenching demise. Who knows with Martin?
 
I can already hear the sound of millions of book readers furiously typing out their righteous fury at D&D for killing Jamie or some other equally important book character.
 
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It is funny, but just to go "full GOT retard" for a bit, the reality was that Ned was a middling swordsman, was still wounded from his bout with Jaime, and pled guilty because he thought it would mean 1) he would go to the Wall, and 2) spare him family more suffering.

A trial by combat -- which he almost surely would have lost -- would have meant abandoning both of those.
 
It is funny, but just to go "full GOT retard" for a bit, the reality was that Ned was a middling swordsman, was still wounded from his bout with Jaime, and pled guilty because he thought it would mean 1) he would go to the Wall, and 2) spare him family more suffering.

A trial by combat -- which he almost surely would have lost -- would have meant abandoning both of those.

He could have found a champion, like Tyrion did. I don't think anyone would fight on his behalf, but that is still an option. I like to think that Barristan would have wanted to but his own sense of duty to the crown prevented him from doing so. The time line is a little blurry, was Barristan dismissed before, or after Ned's execution?
 
He could have found a champion, like Tyrion did. I don't think anyone would fight on his behalf, but that is still an option. I like to think that Barristan would have wanted to but his own sense of duty to the crown prevented him from doing so. The time line is a little blurry, was Barristan dismissed before, or after Ned's execution?

Before. Though I don't think Ned is the kind of guy who would have let someone else fight for his honor anyway.
 
He could have found a champion, like Tyrion did. I don't think anyone would fight on his behalf, but that is still an option. I like to think that Barristan would have wanted to but his own sense of duty to the crown prevented him from doing so. The time line is a little blurry, was Barristan dismissed before, or after Ned's execution?

While I agree, especially considering his injury when fighting against the Lannisters (the injury was more serious in the books, too), would any champion Ned have picked been able to beat the Hound? Remember, Sandor Clegane was made a member of the Kingsguard shortly after Ned was executed (which means shortly after he would have potentially picked a trial by combat), and Clegane was one of the best warriors in Westeros at that point. Is there a warrior from the North who could have killed him in a one-on-one fight?

It is funny, but just to go "full GOT retard" for a bit, the reality was that Ned was a middling swordsman, was still wounded from his bout with Jaime, and pled guilty because he thought it would mean 1) he would go to the Wall, and 2) spare him family more suffering.

A trial by combat -- which he almost surely would have lost -- would have meant abandoning both of those.

Was he really a middling swordsman? He survived a battle against multiple members of the former Kingsguard, guys who most agree were pretty badass, and also fought in numerous battles in Robert's Rebellion and was never killed. Seems to me he was a pretty good warrior. He never got a lot of hype, but he also survived every fight he was in, which is the ultimate measure of a good swordsman.

I agree with the rest, though.
 
While I agree, especially considering his injury when fighting against the Lannisters (the injury was more serious in the books, too), would any champion Ned have picked been able to beat the Hound? Remember, Sandor Clegane was made a member of the Kingsguard shortly after Ned was executed (which means shortly after he would have potentially picked a trial by combat), and Clegane was one of the best warriors in Westeros at that point. Is there a warrior from the North who could have killed him in a one-on-one fight?



Was he really a middling swordsman? He survived a battle against multiple members of the former Kingsguard, guys who most agree were pretty badass, and also fought in numerous battles in Robert's Rebellion and was never killed. Seems to me he was a pretty good warrior. He never got a lot of hype, but he also survived every fight he was in, which is the ultimate measure of a good swordsman.

I agree with the rest, though.

Middling might be a bit harsh but I'm pretty sure it's heavily implied he was not an exceptional swordsman. Jaime Lannister would have chopped him to bits which is kind of why that fight scene in the show is a little chuckle-worthy to book readers.

Tower of Joy was 7 on 3 and Ned says he only survived because Howland Reed saved him under mysterious circumstances.

My general opinion just drawing on my memory, seemed like Ned was a pretty good soldier, but not a next-level swordsman like Jaime or Barristan.
 
Middling might be a bit harsh but I'm pretty sure it's heavily implied he was not an exceptional swordsman. Jaime Lannister would have chopped him to bits which is kind of why that fight scene in the show is a little chuckle-worthy to book readers.

To be fair, Jaime wasn't even willing to face him himself in the books. We don't know that he would have won that fight easily.
 
To be fair, Jaime wasn't even willing to face him himself in the books. We don't know that he would have won that fight easily.

Jaime described as legendary swordsman, pretty much second to none in the Seven Kingdoms. Martin specifically makes note of this fact. It's something we're supposed to know; part of the story. Ned's skill? Not touched upon much, implied he is pretty solid, as I stated. Obviously it's fiction and we have no idea what would happen for sure, it's just a story concocted by an author, but going on the information I would say it's impossible to deny Jaime as a heavy favorite in the fight.

Felt like the show made misuse of ample opportunity to "show, not tell" about Jaime's ability, though. For example, when he confronts Stark in front of Littlefinger's brothel, they engage in battle and Jaime dispatches Jory quite easily, but using a side-handed trick (parry, then concealed dagger to the eye...lololol). Think it would have been cooler if him and Jory actually fought for a few seconds and Jaime just destroyed him.

Otherwise we never really see this great, legendary fighter that Jaime is supposed to be unless I'm not remembering something.
 
Jaime described as legendary swordsman, pretty much second to none in the Seven Kingdoms. Martin specifically makes note of this fact. It's something we're supposed to know; part of the story. Ned's skill? Not touched upon much, implied he is pretty solid, as I stated. Obviously it's fiction and we have no idea what would happen for sure, it's just a story concocted by an author, but going on the information I would say it's impossible to deny Jaime as a heavy favorite in the fight.

Felt like the show made misuse of ample opportunity to "show, not tell" about Jaime's ability, though. For example, when he confronts Stark in front of Littlefinger's brothel, they engage in battle and Jaime dispatches Jory quite easily, but using a side-handed trick (parry, then concealed dagger to the eye...lololol). Think it would have been cooler if him and Jory actually fought for a few seconds and Jaime just destroyed him.

Otherwise we never really see this great, legendary fighter that Jaime is supposed to be unless I'm not remembering something.

I've always had the impression that Jaime was somewhat toying with Ned in that duel.
 
Martin has been asked about this quite a few times and has stated that Ned was an acceptable swordsman for a nobleman but nothing special. His older brother was the really good one. Ned was a very good general, though.

The show obviously portrayed that a bit differently because Jaime v. Ned should not have seemed as close as it did.
 
Some casting/episode title news from watchersonthewall....

This week has been very busy with updates surrounding episode titles, and the crowning confirmation is that the HBO schedule has been updated with the reported titles of the first three episodes.

Episode S5E1: The Wars to Come

Episode S5E2: The House of Black and White

Episode S5E3: High Sparrow




The cast listing confirms the return of Tom Wlaschiha. I first uncovered Wlaschiha’s return last summer on a news listing on his German agency website that was later deleted. However the actor was not spotted on set and so his return has remained officially unconfirmed until now. It’s commonly speculated that his character Jaqen H’ghar may surface in Braavos, the home of the Faceless Men, but there are other possibilities, as his character travels to other places in the books. The most popular guess, though, is that he may take on the role of the Kindly Man from the books.

The cast listing is identical for each week on the HBO schedule, so we cannot draw any conclusions from an actor’s name appearing on the episode 1 list. (Or episode 2- which is what I happened to screencap.)

I was confident Wlaschiha was returning, based on the agency news, but having it officially confirmed is fantastic!
 

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