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Andrew Wiggins

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Highlight dunk....game, not so much.

Wiggins posted a mind numbing -38 tonight. That is not a misprint. MINUS THIRTY EIGHT.

The next worst +/- on the Wolves was -16, which maybe is even more amazing. That he could be 2.5 times as bad as the next craptastic T-Wolve.

If Love posted a -38, Ben would have to hit the self-destruct button on RCF. :chuckle:

A single game's plus/minus means next to nothing statistically other than the fact that his team lost.

I don't even know what game this is, but to use this stat is meaningless.
 
I thought +\- was shown as a meaningless stat when kyrie scored 55 vs spurs Smith had a higher +\- than kyrie.

It is... ignore it. Statistically speaking there is more noise than useful data. It's why we have stats like RPM, RAPM, etc that use regression to tease out the meaningful data rather than just looking raw, single-game, plus-minus.
 
It is... ignore it. Statistically speaking there is more noise than useful data. It's why we have stats like RPM, RAPM, etc that use regression to tease out the meaningful data rather than just looking raw, single-game, plus-minus.

His ORPM on the season is 0.38. That's #115 in the NBA.
His DRPM on the season is -1.75. That's #375 in the NBA. Yikes.
His RPM on the season is -1.37. That's #246 in the NBA.
His WAR on the season is 1.57. That's #159 in the NBA.

All I'm pointing out is highlight dunks don't mean a whole lot at this juncture. Is he an exciting young player? Of course but people vastly overrate him at this point. He's very good for a rookie but people frame it as if he's very good when compared to other proven veterans, which he really is not.
 
It is... ignore it. Statistically speaking there is more noise than useful data. It's why we have stats like RPM, RAPM, etc that use regression to tease out the meaningful data rather than just looking raw, single-game, plus-minus.


This is why I'm with Charles on the analytics nonsense. Some of them are use full but most of the are just there for no reason. Like when people will bring up stupid stats to say wiggins defense is bad even though if you watch the game you know his defense is good especially for a rookie playing major minuets guarding the teams #1 guy
 
This is why I'm with Charles on the analytics nonsense. Some of them are use full but most of the are just there for no reason. Like when people will bring up stupid stats to say wiggins defense is bad even though if you watch the game you know his defense is good especially for a rookie playing major minuets guarding the teams #1 guy

Charles says this because he doesn't understand them.

I understand them.

And yeah, you're right people misuse these statistics all the time to make their case; I've pointed out obvious errors in analysis in this thread among others numerous times and I try to keep folks honest in that regard.

Nonetheless, the point is very valid: single game +/- isn't a useful stat for individual player evaluation.
 
Wiggins wouldn't even be starting on this team over JR Smith. But I'm not gonna lie a 4th quarter lineup of Kyrie, Smith, Wiggins, Lebron and Mozgov would be able to do anything we wanted it to offensively and defensively
 
His ORPM on the season is 0.38. That's #115 in the NBA.
His DRPM on the season is -1.75. That's #375 in the NBA. Yikes.
His RPM on the season is -1.37. That's #246 in the NBA.
His WAR on the season is 1.57. That's #159 in the NBA.

All I'm pointing out is highlight dunks don't mean a whole lot at this juncture. Is he an exciting young player? Of course but people vastly overrate him at this point. He's very good for a rookie but people frame it as if he's very good when compared to other proven veterans, which he really is not.

I haven't seen said that once on this site or in this thread, yet you've said it repeatedly today. Can you pull up a single post from anyone that calls Wiggins a very good player compared to the rest of the league right now?

I'm glad you'll at least call him very good for a rookie, others around here aren't nearly as impressed.

I'm hoping they see the light before it's too late; he's only getting better from here. Racking up big minutes on a terrible team destroyed his advanced stats for the year, but 2,500+ minutes on the wing are enormous in his overall development. This was his first year playing shooting guard in his life; and even that's coming after his first season playing primarily on the wing as a small forward at Kansas.

At least no one can say they weren't warned.
 
The life of the king

Posters want king to dunk on centers

Instead of beating them (hi beef) when it matters, we rather him dunk on them

Some of yall need to learn how to be real champs and not highlight champs
 
Wiggins finishing strong 23ppg 5rpg 2.7apg 55.7% TS last 10 games. It's really amazing his post game though and how it came out if nowhere. Kobe like
 
I haven't seen said that once on this site or in this thread, yet you've said it repeatedly today. Can you pull up a single post from anyone that calls Wiggins a very good player compared to the rest of the league right now?

I'm glad you'll at least call him very good for a rookie, others around here aren't nearly as impressed.

I'm hoping they see the light before it's too late; he's only getting better from here. Racking up big minutes on a terrible team destroyed his advanced stats for the year, but 2,500+ minutes on the wing are enormous in his overall development. This was his first year playing shooting guard in his life; and even that's coming after his first season playing primarily on the wing as a small forward at Kansas.

At least no one can say they weren't warned.

There have been plenty of people openly wondering if the Cavs would be better off this year with Wiggins over Love, which obviously implies, at worst, he's on par with Love's production.
 
There have been plenty of people openly wondering if the Cavs would be better off this year with Wiggins over Love, which obviously implies, at worst, he's on par with Love's production.

Have there been plenty of people? I can only think of @clevelandrox23.... and even then from what I can remember his argument is based on the team being better long-term rather than this year.

IMO it's an entirely ridiculous argument, Andrew Wiggins is very good for a rookie but Kevin Love is already an established All-Star. It's great that Wiggins is going to be ROY and 1st team All-Rookie... but Love's already made 2nd Team All-NBA. Twice. That should end the discussion, even big Wiggins supporters like myself know he's nowhere close to even sniffing an All-NBA team as a rookie.

That's why I asked @I'mWithDan for a single quote saying Wiggins is very good player right now, when everything I've seen makes the distinction that Wiggins is very good for a rookie.
 
Wiggins is a franchise player no and ifs or buts about it. Had 17 at half tonight and the warriors basically put 2 player on him in the 2nd half. He finished with 9 assists just an amazing player.
 
Have there been plenty of people? I can only think of @clevelandrox23.... and even then from what I can remember his argument is based on the team being better long-term rather than this year.

IMO it's an entirely ridiculous argument, Andrew Wiggins is very good for a rookie but Kevin Love is already an established All-Star. It's great that Wiggins is going to be ROY and 1st team All-Rookie... but Love's already made 2nd Team All-NBA. Twice. That should end the discussion, even big Wiggins supporters like myself know he's nowhere close to even sniffing an All-NBA team as a rookie.

That's why I asked @I'mWithDan for a single quote saying Wiggins is very good player right now, when everything I've seen makes the distinction that Wiggins is very good for a rookie.

im definitely one of the people that is still in the fence about the trade. As long as love signs any sort of extension it was worth it. If love leaves after this year-and the cavs dont win a championship, it was not worth it. That said there is absolutely 0 doubt Love made the cavs better this year over wiggins.
 
The reality is that by the time Wiggins is in his prime, LeBron will be retired.

Pundits won't remember that when they trash the trade years from now, but it is what it is.
 

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