Kyrie Irving

[Kizzle]

I haven't read any of these articles im seeing Pop up about Lebron and Kyrie.

Ima just assume LeBron and Kyrie aren't friends either now?


Thnx for keeping me updated national media

 

[Kizzle]

Why?

He has the second-highest PER and the highest RPM/RAPM.

He's second best defender of the bunch, and the second best facilitator of the bunch.

He's also the most efficient scorer of any point-guard in the league, by far.

He'll also be, probably, making a Finals appearance this season.

Any argument that can be made for Kyrie would also apply to Steph and then some.

He is, IMHO, the best point guard in the league.

Because I don't feel he has the dog in him to win a matchup against 2015 Westbrook. Curry's team would win that matchup easy but I just feel individually Westbrook would give him problems.

 

[Bballguy4]

But it's not really about this man.. That's the thing.

When lebron drives.. it's more of a clumsy power drive.

When lebron takes a fade away from midrange/3pt, you never know if you're going to get an airball or a swish.

That sounds like a far out statement and I don't intend it this way.. The duality of lebron is pretty amazing.. because he takes those shots and they look terrible sometimes, and you reach the point where you want to say, don't, don't take those shots, and then he starts drilling them.

If kyrie takes a shot, it's all good. I don't care what shot it is it's not airballing. It really doesn't matter at all. That 57 point performance? How many drifting, sideways, fadeaways, contested, shots were those?

Not to mention that I'm also pretty used to seeing lebron have 1, 2, 3 turnovers in a row.

It's kind of weird actually, it's almost like Lebron is two different players. He makes some crappy decisions and looks like he can't shoot and then BOOM he starts throwing dimes and making very difficult shots (like those random fade-away corner threes he makes, those are really tough shots to make. But then he'll miss the open 3.)

We have years of stats that prove and show lebron is more impactful and produces wins, something Kyrie has failed at..

Kyrie

Lebron

Lebron having a down year is basically better than Kyrie at his best

A Lebron drive is deadlier than anything from kyrie and he's having on off year at the hoop


LBJ shot breakdown

his 4 previous seasons @ the rim

Kyrie breakdown

A lebron drive come with the duel threat of picking you apart with the drive and kick game.

 

[gourimoko]

We have years of stats that prove and show lebron is more impactful and produces wins, something Kyrie has failed at..

Umm.. no.

Stats among all players in the NBA:

Points Scored: LeBron (3rd), Kyrie (6th)
Points Per Game: LeBron (3rd), Kyrie (8th)

Minutes Per Game: Kyrie (2nd)
Offensive Rating: Kyrie (19th), LeBron (42nd)
Offensive Win Shares: Kyrie (5th), LeBron (7th)

Win Shares: Kyrie (8th @ 9.7), LeBron (9th @ 9.5)

Try again..

 

[Jscc]

I'd take Westbrook too. With LeBron beside him... That's a fearsome duo. They both would be going for trip dubs. I got Kyrie at 4 after them

The only thing about Westbrook that I prefer is his 120% intensity for the game and athleticism. I don't think he's a better scorer or ball-handler than Kyrie is.

 

[Bballguy4]

Umm.. no.

Stats among all players in the NBA:

Points Scored: LeBron (3rd), Kyrie (6th)
Points Per Game: LeBron (3rd), Kyrie (8th)

Minutes Per Game: Kyrie (2nd)
Offensive Rating: Kyrie (19th), LeBron (42nd)
Offensive Win Shares: Kyrie (5th), LeBron (7th)

Win Shares: Kyrie (8th @ 9.7), LeBron (9th @ 9.5)

Try again..

win shares is a cumalitive rating and we know Kyire has played more games (it goes up with the more games you play) than lebron this year.

LBJ's ws/48

Kyrie ws/48...

for the record, Lebron has a better win share per 48, box +/-, offensive +/- and value over replacement IMPACT!!!!

My post was about their entire track record, not just this year. YOU try again...

 

[Ohio]

Looking forward to the Miami game Thursday so hopefully we can get over the bullshit that is currently happening in this thread.

 

[All4One1ForAll]

Looking forward to the Miami game Thursday so hopefully we can get over the bullshit that is currently happening in this thread.

That's so far away...I just want playoff basketball to start already.

 

[The Red Viper]

You can clearly tell this forum is fucking bored as hell without nothing to discuss, when you see people here discussing about who is better between Kyrie and LeBron or which version of Lebron is better.

 

[All4One1ForAll]

You can clearly tell this forum is fucking bored as hell without nothing to discuss, when you see people here discussing about who is better between Kyrie and LeBron or which version of Lebron is better.

During the playoffs this forum is either going to be bumping and extremely positive (because we'll be firing on all cylinders), or an absolute nightmare to read.

 

[All4One1ForAll]

@gourimoko I thought you might find this interesting. If you look at Kyrie's stats without Lebron, it gives you a little idea of what his numbers might look like without Lebron. Obviously we're not saying Lebron makes Kyrie worse or that we'd be better without him. It just helps for comparison to other elite point guards who have the ball in their hands a lot more than Kyrie this year.

Without Lebron on the floor, Kyrie boasts a 34.7 USG %. He's played 864 total minutes without Lebron, and racked up 662 total points and 139 total assists. Per 36 minutes, he's putting up roughly 27.6 points and 5.8 assists with a 57.3 TS percentage.

Furthermore, if you look at the games in which Lebron has missed entirely, Kyrie has averaged 26.7 points and 5 assists per game. Those numbers are slightly brought down by a game against Dallas, in which he left in the middle of the third quarter due to injury. If you throw away that Dallas game (just for the sake of argument), he put up 29.2 points and 5.3 assists per game.

So I think that gives a good idea of what kind of stats Kyrie would put up if he had a bigger role in the offense, leading to the same touches and opportunities that other elite point guards get because obviously when you play with Lebron, you have to sacrifice a little of your game, which has led to Kyrie's USG rate to fall to 26%, which is 2% lower than last year and 4% lower than his career high.

I think without Lebron, it wouldn't be unreasonable to say Kyrie would put up around 25 points and 6.5-7 assists per game (points would likely fall a little compared to his production this season without Lebron while we could expect his assists to be higher compared to his assist numbers this year without Lebron).

 

[Simmy]

I'm not one for the media jargon, but I'm intrigued by this Irving quote:

"I don't want to say it's not been rocky at all," Irving said. "Obviously, he sees the game one way, I see the game another way. What makes it great about being on the team is that we both can see it together in our own way."

Irving talked about his struggles in trying to adapt to playing with such a multi-talented and multi-positional force of nature.

"Coming in this season, when you have a guy like that who plays the one, two, and three positions (like James), some games are going to be that way. I feel like that's the biggest thing we've built is we're starting to trust one another more. It took time."

Would be interesting to hear him shed a little more light on this one day (preferably after we've won a championship). Makes you wonder that all is never as meets the eye - got to wonder about the back-and-forths Irving and LeBron must've had a little earlier on. I just wonder who took what stance.

Oh, to be a fly on the wall at the Cleveland Clinic Courts...

 

[Jon]

Jon... Those rankings are a joke.
Any pg ranking where kyrie is lower than Mike Conley is automatic garbage.

You really want to replace kyrie with mike Conley on this team?

How did we play against the Grizzlies, by chance?

Any ranking where Damian lillard has a higher scoring rating than kyrie is flawed.

Tony Parker? Really?
Who was kyrie playing against in the 57 point game.

Kyrie is top 4-5 max currently.

Yet, I don't see you disagreeing with the individual rankings that fed in to their composite score.

Keep in mind that they are ranking PGs here, not scorers who are too short to play SG.

Kudos to David Griffin and the Cavs for adding Mozgov/Shumpert/Delly to help cover for Kyrie on D, and for bringing James back so Kyrie doesn't have to worry about running the team. We've done a great job making sure that Kyrie's weaknesses as a PG don't hurt the team, but that doesn't mean they don't still exist.

 

[Jon]

The very fact that John Wall is ahead of Irving should be demonstrative of error/bias in the calculation.

Gouri, you know better than to dismiss a result simply because it tells you something you disagree with.

It's not at all baseless to conclude that John Wall is a better leader, play-maker, and defender than Kyrie. They're being judged as point-guards, and in that context Irving shouldn't even be in the rankings as he's not even his own team's primary playmaker.

 

[Ohio]

"Point Guard"

Yawn. That label is dead.