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Racial Tension in the U.S.

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Where should the thread go from here?

  • Racial Tension in the U.S.

    Votes: 16 51.6%
  • Extremist Views on the U.S.

    Votes: 2 6.5%
  • Mending Years of Racial Stereotypes.

    Votes: 2 6.5%
  • Protest Culture.

    Votes: 1 3.2%
  • Racist Idiots in the News.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 10 32.3%

  • Total voters
    31
Terrible situation, you don't shoot people that far away and on the ground.

However did you really just compare drunk kids falling over, pissing in public, puking and being loud mouths to someone running in the middle of a road while carrying a knife not listing to police officers commands at gun point? Not even gonna address the white only remark.

Same situation? Not quite, that's fair. The reason I'm bringing it up is because JSS was using this as an example of non-compliance or resistance and people act like non-compliance means the gloves are off when it comes to these situations. Which is insane to me. And the reason I bring it up is when I lived in a low income neighborhood in PG county Maryland outside of DC, I saw the differences between how black-teens are policed by white cops in these neighborhoods. If some of the kids in that neighborhood pulled the insubordination I watch college kids pull on cops in Columbus? They'd have the bruises to show for it, or worse.

And yes, I truly believe that if this was the typical messed up white kid I see in the middle of the street out on high st in a college town and he happened to have a 3 inch knife walking away from police officers barking orders? No, I don't think that kid in that situation gets 16 bullets in him. You can disagree with me if you want, but this is what my personal experiences lead me to believe.
 
Same situation? Not quite, that's fair. The reason I'm bringing it up is because JSS was using this as an example of non-compliance or resistance and people act like non-compliance means the gloves are off when it comes to these situations. Which is insane to me. And the reason I bring it up is when I lived in a low income neighborhood in PG county Maryland outside of DC, I saw the differences between how black-teens are policed by white cops in these neighborhoods. If some of the kids in that neighborhood pulled the insubordination I watch college kids pull on cops in Columbus? They'd have the bruises to show for it, or worse.

And yes, I truly believe that if this was the typical messed up white kid I see in the middle of the street out on high st in a college town and he happened to have a 3 inch knife walking away from police officers barking orders? No, I don't think that kid in that situation gets 16 bullets in him. You can disagree with me if you want, but this is what my personal experiences lead me to believe.

That's because you can't possibly understand what it's like to be a cop in crime ridden neighborhoods where young teens are shooting each other with no regard at the highest rate in the country. You don't interact with criminals on a daily basis so you are not fully aware what they are capable of at any given moment in time especially high on powerful substances like PCP and wielding a knife. You don't know if this guy is carrying one knife or something more and one wrong move could possibly kill you or someone around you. It doesn't help that he's poking around in his pants and hoodie as he's walking towards the vehicle (before trying to walk past the officers). I'm not a police officer but I can certainly put myself in their shoes. I can't put myself in the shoes of a guy smoking PCP and wielding a knife because that's complete unpredictable behavior.

The kid was juiced out of his mind, not cooperating, wielding a knife and he doesn't just get to skate past the cops armed possibly putting other people in serious danger. It's tragic that this event took place but here we are again blaming cops instead of the criminal.

How can a cop "target black people" when in almost every instance there's a crime being committed or had been committed and resisting arrest soon follows. That's the one pattern I see. Are these people who've been shot being targeted or are they placing targets on themselves by not following the law and resisting arrest?

Nowhere in any of these cases did police officers premeditate murder of individuals based on the color of their skin.

As far as your white college kid comparisons, there's at least 3 cases that happened in the last couple of years where campus/local officers shot white students for resisting arrest or posing threats to the public. One of them was on LSD.
 
Last edited:
http://theweek.com/speedreads/44560...narmed-black-man-who-reaching-drivers-license

Hard to see what this dude did to warrant getting shot other then doing what the officer actually asked him to do.

This simply a consequence of video being available more. In the Chicago case, there were several other cops at the scene who apparently were all stupid because they didn't fire a single shot. It very hard to justify bodily threat when a person is walking away from you and the other cops who had been at the scene were doing what they were taught and letting the situation diffuse out. Similar to Walter Scott killing where w/o video that cop would have easily gotten away with the "felt threatened" you can't shoot people in the back. Cops are not the judge jury, and executioner.

From the BLM perspective: it's hard to see if this if he was black wouldn't have been shot dead at the spot:
http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2014/06/dash_cam_footage_from_open_car.html

or guys like Cliven Bundy basically flout multiple court orders and actually threaten violence against law enforcement yet not much is done.
 
Same situation? Not quite, that's fair. The reason I'm bringing it up is because JSS was using this as an example of non-compliance or resistance and people act like non-compliance means the gloves are off when it comes to these situations. Which is insane to me. And the reason I bring it up is when I lived in a low income neighborhood in PG county Maryland outside of DC, I saw the differences between how black-teens are policed by white cops in these neighborhoods. If some of the kids in that neighborhood pulled the insubordination I watch college kids pull on cops in Columbus? They'd have the bruises to show for it, or worse.

And yes, I truly believe that if this was the typical messed up white kid I see in the middle of the street out on high st in a college town and he happened to have a 3 inch knife walking away from police officers barking orders? No, I don't think that kid in that situation gets 16 bullets in him. You can disagree with me if you want, but this is what my personal experiences lead me to believe.

I've also lived in poor a poor neighborhood in Paradise, Nevada the ass cracks of the vegas strip, I got harassed and searched for no reason at times, and I'm white. The "majority" of police in those areas don't care about race they see everyone as poor citizens who can and may do anything compared to someone who's financially more well. The one's who are high/acting strange/resisting they're going to be on full no fuck around mode. Do I agree with them shooting everyone every time something hits the fan? No...But I sure as fuck wouldn't want to be in their shoes for a million a year.

As for the rest, you're comparing poor neighborhoods to one of the best colleges in the world, of course they police the area's in downtown Columbus different then say Hilltop or Chicago. It's two different worlds, two different things going on, one is students going to school, the other is people struggling to live day to day. You can see where the difference in mind sets of said individuals in those situations can be different right? And how one may have them more alert then the other?

Do I think cops would shoot any race (black,white,mexican,asian,mixed) high on PCP wielding a knife at gun point during night in the middle of the road in poor neighborhoods? Yes
Do I think cops would shoot any race high on PCP wielding a knife at gun point during the night on OSU campus in the middle of the high street? Yes
Do I think cops would shoot any race just drunk on OSU campus in the middle of high street at night. No, if they are, they hide it great
 
http://theweek.com/speedreads/44560...narmed-black-man-who-reaching-drivers-license

Hard to see what this dude did to warrant getting shot other then doing what the officer actually asked him to do.

This simply a consequence of video being available more. In the Chicago case, there were several other cops at the scene who apparently were all stupid because they didn't fire a single shot. It very hard to justify bodily threat when a person is walking away from you and the other cops who had been at the scene were doing what they were taught and letting the situation diffuse out. Similar to Walter Scott killing where w/o video that cop would have easily gotten away with the "felt threatened" you can't shoot people in the back. Cops are not the judge jury, and executioner.

From the BLM perspective: it's hard to see if this if he was black wouldn't have been shot dead at the spot:
http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2014/06/dash_cam_footage_from_open_car.html

or guys like Cliven Bundy basically flout multiple court orders and actually threaten violence against law enforcement yet not much is done.

I think that in the Bundy case, law enforcement made the choice not to escalate because engaging that nut job, who is, as well as his supporters, armed to the teeth, would not be worth the casualties.

It is always easier to shoot the shit out of the unarmed and those without the unconditional support of the Fox News crowd....
 
That's because you can't possibly understand what it's like to be a cop in crime ridden neighborhoods where young teens are shooting each other with no regard at the highest rate in the country. You don't interact with criminals on a daily basis so you are not fully aware what they are capable of at any given moment in time especially high on powerful substances like PCP and wielding a knife. You don't know if this guy is carrying one knife or something more and one wrong move could possibly kill you or someone around you. It doesn't help that he's poking around in his pants and hoodie as he's walking towards the vehicle (before trying to walk past the officers). I'm not a police officer but I can certainly put myself in their shoes. I can't put myself in the shoes of a guy smoking PCP and wielding a knife because that's complete unpredictable behavior.

The kid was juiced out of his mind, not cooperating, wielding a knife and he doesn't just get to skate past the cops armed possibly putting other people in serious danger. It's tragic that this event took place but here we are again blaming cops instead of the criminal.

How can a cop "target black people" when in almost every instance there's a crime being committed or had been committed and resisting arrest soon follows. That's the one pattern I see. Are these people who've been shot being targeted or are they placing targets on themselves by not following the law and resisting arrest?

Nowhere in any of these cases did police officers premeditate murder of individuals based on the color of their skin.

As far as your white college kid comparisons, there's at least 3 cases that happened in the last couple of years where campus/local officers shot white students for resisting arrest or posing threats to the public. One of them was on LSD.

How do you feel about the 15 shots after the first one incapacitated him?
 
And the DA still fucked up the charges, she now has to prove it was per-metitated murder. Dumb. Chicago's problem may start with some shitty cops but it goes all the way up the pole to Mayor. You are telling me it took what 13 months to bring charges? The cop got paid for those 13 months too... Jesus Christ.

Unreal.. They had him working a desk job, to boot! What happened to "suspended pending adjudication"?!

16 shots is indicative of a moment of rage to me, which isn't excusable. Police are supposed to be able to handle themselves in situations exactly like this one. I'm thinking to myself, why didn't the guy aim at a leg or something? Or try any form of non-lethal force? 16 shots at a guy, some even while the kid is on the ground bleeding out, is having intent to kill.
 
Unreal.. They had him working a desk job, to boot! What happened to "suspended pending adjudication"?!

16 shots is indicative of a moment of rage to me, which isn't excusable. Police are supposed to be able to handle themselves in situations exactly like this one. I'm thinking to myself, why didn't the guy aim at a leg or something? Or try any form of non-lethal force? 16 shots at a guy, some even while the kid is on the ground bleeding out, is having intent to kill.

Why does any of this surprise you? I know I'm just the crazy conspiracy asshole, but a year ago we went over this. Police are trained to intimidate the public into submission using lethal force if necessary, or just for the fun of it if they want. Not use non-lethal force. Not serve or protect. The good cops that are left will conform or be replaced.

The BLM movement has people on the lookout now for police crimes against blacks, which by itself shows how widespread the problem is and is getting worse. Now if we could get people to look at the police crimes against all races, there would be real alarm among everyone.
 
What was the guy trying to prove by staring a random cop down? That was statistically far more likely to be one of the 95% of cops that do their job correctly.

Just dumb, IMO.
 
What was the guy trying to prove by staring a random cop down? That was statistically far more likely to be one of the 95% of cops that do their job correctly.

Just dumb, IMO.

The guy staring the cop down live time on the news last night? Seemed a little dumb, but I suppose I get the guy's point.

I'm starting to not be so sure it's 95% doing it right. Seems to be a fundamental problwm with the way these guys are trained.
 
The guy staring the cop down live time on the news last night? Seemed a little dumb, but I suppose I get the guy's point.

I'm starting to not be so sure it's 95% doing it right. Seems to be a fundamental problwm with the way these guys are trained.
Yeah I didn't research the exact percentage, 95 is just what they kept saying on FOX and CNN last night.
 
My take: Sorry for the multiple messages, my computer was going haywire.
 
Here's my two sides of the story:

15 shots were completely unwarranted. Hell, couldn't the first shot have been from a taser? Totally fucked up how many times they shot the kid.

Now the other side: both this kid, and Tamir Rice were responsible for putting themselves in a jeopardizing situation where they were doing criminal stuff. Period.

If they weren't doing criminal shit, they wouldn't have walked into these situations. There's so much rage being directed at the officers response, that they forget these kids were responsible for putting themselves in the situation to begin with.

You don't walk around waving a gun at people, you don't remove the orange tip off a toy gun. Why did Tamir do it? Probably to make the gun look more real. It wouldn't be fun sticking people up with an orange tipped gun would it?

Rice' family acts as if he still had the orange tip on the gun and police should have known the gun was fake. If that was the case, then my take on this would be completely different.

Too often the protestors act like these young blacks were doing nothing wrong and the police did this randomly like their kids were innocently playing on the playground and police gunned them down.

If Black Lives Matter, then people need to do a better job of parenting their fucking children. Whites and Blacks. I'm not even going to touch the black on black violence in Chicago. That seems to be a MUCH larger issue here. It all starts and ends with parenting.

White people aren't doing any better. I'm pretty sure every school shooter is white, I haven't heard of a black school shooter to date. Why do these kids do devious criminal shit? Because their family life is trash. Period.

There is a reason that more and more crazy stuff like this keeps happening. Because the world changed when all this technology came into our lives. Ever seen a parent desperate for their kids to behave? What makes those kids shut up and behave? Video games, iPads and smartphones. The digital babysitter. Think your kids aren't looking at porn, sexting, facebook ganging up on people.
 
That's all well and good, I don't think you will find anyone who disagrees. But that doesn't do anything to stop these kinds of incidents from happening tomorrow, or the next day, or the day after.

Law enforcement is not the justice system.

There is clearly corruption in the police system. The officer had many complaints filed against him as making racist remarks, etc. Nothing stuck. The police claimed that McDonald lunged at them. The video evidence clearly contradicts that. But they would have gotten away with it if there was no video evidence.

And there is clearly a problem with quickly resulting to lethal force. Someone over the police radio suggested bringing in an office with a taser. They had what, six squad cars, and none of them had any non-lethal method to at least try to contain the guy before resorting to a firearm?
 
Why does any of this surprise you? I know I'm just the crazy conspiracy asshole, but a year ago we went over this. Police are trained to intimidate the public into submission using lethal force if necessary, or just for the fun of it if they want. Not use non-lethal force. Not serve or protect. The good cops that are left will conform or be replaced.

The BLM movement has people on the lookout now for police crimes against blacks, which by itself shows how widespread the problem is and is getting worse. Now if we could get people to look at the police crimes against all races, there would be real alarm among everyone.
they're pretty fucking good at it, too. a (former-ish) buddy of mine became a cleveland cop a few years back, and the topic of cooperation & public perception of police came up one time. he couldn't fathom the idea that the majority of people don't respect cops at all, but only cooperate with them because they know in reality that cop can do whatever the fuck he wants to them with little to no chance of facing any consequences. obviously killing someone is on the very extreme end of the spectrum, but it applies to everything "lesser" than that too, which happen all the time.

as an aside, in my conversations with him since joining i've seen how quickly a seemingly goodhearted person can become so jaded and start to play so fast and loose with their moral compass. it's gross and i can only imagine how bad it gets once they've been in the police environment for many years.

what is really sickening, though, is how cops are so quick to beg witnesses to come forward and fight against the whole no-snitching mentality of the streets as a whole. yet when the tables are turned, most of em will blindly defend their "brothers in arms" no matter the accusations or evidence. apparently it's ok to snitch on someone when they're a thug on a street corner, but never when they're a thug in a uniform.
 

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