Shootouts and explosions in Paris

[The Human Q-Tip]

Why yes, yes there is. This story is somewhere between gross incompetence and sheer falsehood. Both are completely inexcusable. However (big however), I would love to hear your and @King Stannis 's opinion before I draw the conclusion that I have.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-...l-massacre-malfunctioning-sensors-human-error

I don't understand the relevance of that story to the point. Is it your belief that the military knowingly and deliberately targeted a hospital, or that it was a fuckup?

 

[Frank Reynolds]

Wow I am completely dumbfounded. The USA is so dumb, so tangled in all of this that we actually armed ISIS. This whole situation is completely fucked, it just demonstrates when politicians get in the way; you end up in a situation like this. Our president is a grade A retard. Putin is the only one with some sense. Fuck civilian casualties, ISIS is going to kill civilians anyway, very innocent people are dying daily in gruesome barbaric ways. I just saw clips of them systematically executing people face down in a huge line with a machine gun. I'm sickened from even watching that.

I am disgusted. Something really crooked is going on. If the US talks such a big game about defeating ISIS, why aren't we joining in the bombing raids? Why did John McCain publicly support shooting down Russian fighter jets?

How fucking retarded are we? How fucking crooked are our politicians?

We are just setting ourselves up. I'd venture to say 80% of Americans would authorize a Putin style "bomb the fuck out of ISIS raid."

The US is so stupid, we actually funded and supplied ISIS with American equipment. When shit becomes that ass-backwards, you really have to wonder who is running our country? You have to see that politicians and their undying bickering destroy ANY chance we have at progress.

How in the fuck? Why in the fuck could something like that happen? Then McCain has the balls to say he'd shoot down the Russian bombers who are fucking CRIPPLING ISIS. I wonder who is lining McCain's pockets? I just lost a tremendous amount of respect for that guy, what a fucking crook.

I'd bomb them day in, day out, nighttime, holidays.... Fuck civilian casualties, they're going to die at the hands of ISIS anyways.

We have no balls, period. Politicians baby.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Wow I am completely dumbfounded. The USA is so dumb, so tangled in all of this that we actually armed ISIS. This whole situation is completely fucked, it just demonstrates when politicians get in the way; you end up in a situation like this. Our president is a grade A retard. Putin is the only one with some sense. Fuck civilian casualties, ISIS is going to kill civilians anyway, very innocent people are dying daily in gruesome barbaric ways. I just saw clips of them systematically executing people face down in a huge line with a machine gun. I'm sickened from even watching that.

I am disgusted. Something really crooked is going on. If the US talks such a big game about defeating ISIS, why aren't we joining in the bombing raids? Why did John McCain publicly support shooting down Russian fighter jets?

How fucking retarded are we? How fucking crooked are our politicians?

We are just setting ourselves up. I'd venture to say 80% of Americans would authorize a Putin style "bomb the fuck out of ISIS raid."

The US is so stupid, we actually funded and supplied ISIS with American equipment. When shit becomes that ass-backwards, you really have to wonder who is running our country? You have to see that politicians and their undying bickering destroy ANY chance we have at progress.

How in the fuck? Why in the fuck could something like that happen? Then McCain has the balls to say he'd shoot down the Russian bombers who are fucking CRIPPLING ISIS. I wonder who is lining McCain's pockets? I just lost a tremendous amount of respect for that guy, what a fucking crook.

I'd bomb them day in, day out, nighttime, holidays.... Fuck civilian casualties, they're going to die at the hands of ISIS anyways.

We have no balls, period. Politicians baby.

McCain is a cold warrior who still sees the Russians as enemies try gardless of circumstances.

Obama has Morgan disease. As long as he refrains from personally taking life, his conscience is clean regardless of how many innocents die at the hands of others.

That's the most charitable spin I can put on it, anyway.

 

[Damien O'Connel]

Does anyone actually think we can bomb the middle east into submission?

That's been the strategy for 20+ years. How can you keep buying into the MIC?

Ultimately, the only thing that will solve this problem is education. Is that the easiest solution? Hell no. Will it be quick? Hell no.

But any action taken that does not pursue that goal is a waste.

 

[Simon]

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Does anyone actually think we can bomb the middle east into submission?

That's been the strategy for 20+ years.

I don't think we can, but I don't think that's been the strategy for the past 20 years, either. It's a false premise.

Ultimately, the only thing that will solve this problem is education. Is that the easiest solution? Hell no. Will it be quick? Hell no.

Well, I'd agree that a change in religious culture/attitudes is required to solve the problem, which doesn't necessarily require formal education. But I don't see either us or the Euros as having the ability to change their religious views.

But any action taken that does not pursue that goal is a waste.

First, I doubt the nations that are the most problematic are going to be accepting of an American cultural reworking of their educational systems.

Second, we don't need to solve all their problems. We just need to ensure that their problems don't result in people being murdered in our countries. A great many nations/regions of the world are fucked up, but don't present much of an external threat.

So third, what we need to do one way or the other is eliminate, or at least diminish, their ability to strike us here. And if you're saying anything other than education is useless, and we're not going to be permitted to revamp their whole educational system, then what do you propose other than lying back and enjoying it?

People forget that terrorist attacks were occuring before the bombings, and that AQ was killing our people while we were still pretending to ignore them. 9/11 was not in retaliation for a bombing.

 

[Chris]

Dead man walking, wherever he goes.

 

[Damien O'Connel]

And what does it say about us that we condemn another group for killing civilians to advance their interests, but when we do it it's 'necessary'?

You understand that the U.S. has blown up elementary schools, right?

We should have slightly bigger balls, but just waving away civilian casualties as part of the process is...very wrong.

 

[Chris]

Appreciate the reply, although I disagree.

I think there are too many maniacs in charge, who cares more about their money, power and position, than to consider what's best for the planet at whole.

The human race has gone mad.

Nah.

The party is over, for all involved, in the situation you and @gourimoko discussed. If these people care so much about money, position, and power, I assure you they know all that is lost if that situation ever comes to pass.

 

[OptimusPrime]

9/11 was not in retaliation for a bombing.

No, it was in retaliation for a decade of bombings and sanctions.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

No, it was in retaliation for a decade of bombings.

What specific bombing or bombings are you referring to that motivated the 1998 attacks on our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania?

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

And what does it say about us that we condemn another group for killing civilians to advance their interests, but when we do it it's 'necessary'?

You understand that the U.S. has blown up elementary schools, right?

We should have slightly bigger balls, but just waving away civilian casualties as part of the process is...very wrong.

A lot of French, Belgian, and Dutch citizens died from allied munitions when we were fighting the Germans. I suppose we could have done them all a favor by not getting involved at all, eh?

 

[OptimusPrime]

What specific bombing or bombings are you referring to that motivated the 1998 attacks on our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania?

Why would there need to be a "specific bombing" to motivate it? Is it not enough that the U.S. government had been killing them indiscriminately for years, propping up brutal dictators, starving them with sanctions?

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Why would there need to be a "specific bombing" to motivate it?

You were the guy who pointed to "a decade of bombings", not me. Are you now conceding that's bullshit, or will you identify exactly who we bombed that led AQ to attack our embassies?

Is it not enough that the U.S. government had been killing them indiscriminately for years, propping up brutal dictators, starving them with sanctions?

And this " killing them indiscriminately for years" stuff - to which attacks are you referring"? Personally, I think you're being deliberately vague because you don't know what you're talking about and so just make shit up....

Oh, and if you wouldn't mind identifying your evidence as to AQ's motives, that would probably be useful as well.

 

[OptimusPrime]

You were the guy who pointed to "a decade of bombings", not me. Are you now conceding that's bullshit, or will you identify exactly who we bombed that led AQ to attack our embassies?



And this " killing them indiscriminately for years" stuff - to which attacks are you referring"? Personally, I think you're being deliberately vague because you don't know what you're talking about and so just make shit up....

Oh, and if you wouldn't mind identifying your evidence as to AQ's motives, that would probably be useful as well.

Surely you remember Somalia, and Kosovo, and Iraq bombings, and Iraq no-fly zones, and Iraq sanctions by the peace-loving Democrat Bill Clinton. But you mentioned 9/11, which is what I responded to, and they made it clear why they did that. If those reasons were good enough for 9/11, surely they would work for the embassy bombings too.

While seeking Allah's help, we form our reply based on two questions directed at the Americans:

(Q1) Why are we fighting and opposing you?
(Q2)What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?

As for the first question: Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple:

(1) Because you attacked us and continue to attack us.

a) You attacked us in Palestine:

...

(b) You attacked us in Somalia; you supported the Russian atrocities against us in Chechnya, the Indian oppression against us in Kashmir, and the Jewish aggression against us in Lebanon.

(c) Under your supervision, consent and orders, the governments of our countries which act as your agents, attack us on a daily basis;

...

(d) You steal our wealth and oil at paltry prices because of you international influence and military threats. This theft is indeed the biggest theft ever witnessed by mankind in the history of the world.

(e) Your forces occupy our countries; you spread your military bases throughout them; you corrupt our lands, and you besiege our sanctities, to protect the security of the Jews and to ensure the continuity of your pillage of our treasures.

(f) You have starved the Muslims of Iraq, where children die every day. It is a wonder that more than 1.5 million Iraqi children have died as a result of your sanctions, and you did not show concern. Yet when 3000 of your people died, the entire world rises and has not yet sat down.

(g) You have supported the Jews in their idea that Jerusalem is their eternal capital, and agreed to move your embassy there. With your help and under your protection, the Israelis are planning to destroy the Al-Aqsa mosque. Under the protection of your weapons, Sharon entered the Al-Aqsa mosque, to pollute it as a preparation to capture and destroy it.

...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver