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Fallout 4

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On that note, gouri, one of my favorite moments from the story was when...

You meet your son for the first time since being frozen to find out that he's older than you are. You kind of just accept this, ask him two or three questions, and then move on with your life. Like, the writing in that scene is just terrible. This guy meets the son he's been searching for (off and on...I had a post-apocalyptic bachelor pad to build, son!) since he woke up. He proceeds to have about a three minute conversation with him before accepting a mission from the (former) kid, looting the Institute for everything he could carry, and then heading back into the wasteland. My dude barely even sounded all that shocked that his son was older than him, and still creepily calls him "Father" instead of Shawn after finding out the truth.

The above is why I honestly think this game would have worked just as well without the dead spouse, kidnapped son story. Your character could just as easily have been a blank slate, single guy (or gal) who wakes up in the wasteland after a few hundred years of cryosleep gone wrong, gets himself involved in the civil war going on there, and goes from there. Given that adding a kidnapped son (who was an infant and not even a character when he was taken) and a wife that dies after about five lines of dialogue, it's not as if we've got an emotional attachment to the two anyway. I doubt anyone here was like, "I MUST FIND MY SON!" So why bother with that plot at all? Investigating the Institute for the sake of answering questions about what they're doing would have been interesting enough to me without the son coming into play at all.

As you said, Fallout is a series about exploration, and I agree that giving your character a mandatory backstory was a mistake and, more importantly, totally pointless. Almost nothing from this game would have needed to be changed if you removed Shawn from it altogether. Hell, just make it about someone else's kid who was kidnapped by the Institute, with you and Nick Valentine playing buddy cops to figure things out and try to get him back.

Agreed. The main plot was horrendous overall, probably the weakest thing about the game. I'd also like to be invested in the building, but it's currently a pain in the ass and I'll wait for mods for it. I don't need an intricate plot to enjoy an adventure like FO4, but man their dialogue makes me skip lines until the quest is delivered.
 
Been playing more.

I really like it, but it doesnt even sniff GOTY for me. Distant behind MGS, Witcher, even Pillars of Eternity.
 
@Thelorn To be fair, the building stuff seems pretty optional. I don't really recall ever being forced to do much of it. There are a few missions where they have you build a couple of things, like artillery support at the Castle or a device to get you to the Institute (not going into more detail to avoid spoilers), but they mostly provide you with the resources to do so, or send you on a simple fetch quest to get one last item. And given that games like this are basically built around fetch quests, it's not really that big of a deal.

Other than that, you seem pretty clear to just ignore settlement building altogether should you be so inclined. I don't recall it ever really factoring into the main game. Granted I'm not done yet, but outside of one or two missions where the had me build some stuff, it's basically been ignored beyond the initial Sanctuary tutorial and the post-Castle bit where you build the artillery.
 
I think I've realized why FO 3 and 4 (and bethesda games overall) leave me underwhelmed, and why I cant get into them as much as even the old fallouts. Aside from the lack of characters that dont feel like they're just talking quest mailboxes, the linearity of the quests is really lacking compared to FO 1 and 2. In the older games you could solve quests in whatever way you were good at: charm the enemy, go in guns blazing, sneak in and pick locks, sabotage their base with explosives, etc. That allowed for some really unique character building. Here i'd say 99% of the quests are "go to this location, kill all enemies, pick up a package, rinse and repeat." As much as they want to give you a sandbox experience, the linearity of the quests really limits this. Thoughts @gourimoko?
 
I think I've realized why FO 3 and 4 (and bethesda games overall) leave me underwhelmed, and why I cant get into them as much as even the old fallouts. Aside from the lack of characters that dont feel like they're just talking quest mailboxes, the linearity of the quests is really lacking compared to FO 1 and 2. In the older games you could solve quests in whatever way you were good at: charm the enemy, go in guns blazing, sneak in and pick locks, sabotage their base with explosives, etc. That allowed for some really unique character building. Here i'd say 99% of the quests are "go to this location, kill all enemies, pick up a package, rinse and repeat." As much as they want to give you a sandbox experience, the linearity of the quests really limits this. Thoughts @gourimoko?

I think it's especially bad in Fallout 4. I've only encountered one quest that I can recall where my SPECIAL stats allowed me to bypass a fetch quest. In this case, it was the USS Constitution quest, where my intelligence allowed me to fix some stuff on the ship without having to go and find parts. I feel like those types of things were much more common in the third game.

Neither game was anything like what you're describing, though. That kind of depth is just kind of absent from Bethesda games. You really only have stealth and guns blazing. There are also rarely any areas where lock-picking or hacking makes the game significantly easier or opens alternate paths. Usually lock-picking just gives you some money, ammo, and glue (since glue is important enough to be locked up now by the game's dumbass logic) and hacking enables a Protectron who doesn't move quick enough to be useful because you've probably already cleared out the entire area before enabling him and he doesn't seem terribly interested in heading upstairs.

I think we've just moved past the time when big-budget games can have that kind of depth. They have to be too dumbed down to make enough money to justify their existence.
 
On a related note, I am enjoying building shit in Fallout 4 even though it's mostly pointless.

This is my entrance to Sanctuary Hills. Your move, bandits.
2015_11_28_00001.jpg
 
How many times have you guys had a base invaded after you've taken it? Just had like 5 scorpions attack Sanctuary when I fast traveled back; first time anything like that has happened
 
How many times have you guys had a base invaded after you've taken it? Just had like 5 scorpions attack Sanctuary when I fast traveled back; first time anything like that has happened

It's happened quite a bit to my settlements, although it's happening a lot less now that I went through and beefed up all their defenses. If you have the materials, rocket turrets basically obliterate anything they fire on. Put a couple of those on an elevated platform and they'll wreck shit.
 
Never played a Fallout game before. Is this game worth having? Is it co-op at all?
 
Never played a Fallout game before. Is this game worth having? Is it co-op at all?

No co-op but it's not important or needed for the Fallout series. You can loose a 100 hours or more with each of Fallout 3, New Vegas and Fallout 4.
 
Update!

I started pouring hours into the game over the last few weeks and just completed the main story. After getting past and configuring some of the bugs away, I really enjoyed the game and will continue playing some to explore and complete some companion story quests. It just could have been a hell of a lot better.

The first few hours of the game were really, really lackluster for me. Tons of bugs, numerous crashes, bad UI, confusing building system, and a generally dull intro experience once you step out of the vault really prevented me from getting drawn in early on. However, once you push through the first few main story quests and reach
Diamond City
the story really begins to ramp up and engage you with more interesting characters. Somewhat early on I thought I knew which faction I wanted to side with,
but I sort of struggled actually picking one until absolutely forced.

Heavy spoilers beyond:
Originally I was with BoS (as most people probably run into them first), but pretty much only until I received a set of their power armor. A future under BoS authority did not seem appealing to me, as neither would any land run by a military dedicated to the extermination of AI and the confiscation of technology. Cool faction stylistically, what with the power armor and heavy weaponry? Sure. As a path forward for humanity? Yikes. Also, their Vertibirds suck ass and are constantly getting shot down by raiders, gunners, and dumb ass super mutants. I swear 90% of them I saw flying around got shot down.


It took me a bit longer to actually get into the Railroad HQ as every time I went to follow the Freedom Trail I ended up getting sidetracked by things along the way. Once I actually reached the Old North Church door, it was bugged and wouldn't open. So I wandered around and looked for an alternate entrance that didn't exist (fortunately a reload fixed it).

It was hard not to be intrigued by the idea of helping the modern (future) day underground railroad, especially after meeting some of the more interesting synths and being able to empathize with them. The philosophical struggle of what it means to be alive really invokes Descarte and similar ideas in Blade Runner. Are the synths really self-aware and do they possess free will, or is it simply faulty programming that allows them to exercise 'free will' and deviate from Institute directives? I lean toward the former, but remain unsure. Or maybe I missed something in the story that makes the line more clear.

But Desdemona was a cunt to me from the beginning. And these people don't really have a plan for the future outside of 'free the synths'. They feel like probably the best moral option, but the least capable of actually providing a path forward for the Commonwealth. (especially after they determine that the BoS and Institute need to be wiped out). I mean, I'm apparently the only decent soldier they have left, they have little to no research/technology, and just don't seem that capable. These people are terrified of one courser wiping them out FFS. I helped them out for as long as I could and helped them free a bunch of synths while working for the Institute. I delayed for as long as possible relaying into their base and murdering them all, but once the BoS was destroyed and they moved to attack the Institute I was left no other option. Shotgun to the face for Ole' Des. Curtains for the Railroad. (bloody, bloody curtains)

As for the Institute, there was no doubt in my mind that these were the shittiest people of the main factions, especially after learning Shaun had you woken from cryo out of pure morbid curiosity, as an experiment, and expected you to die. Sure, I'll talk to you for a few minutes after going through hell and back on the surface to find my lost son (you) and be totally cool. In fact, let me become your new lackey for surface work since I killed your old one. (I get that these are supposed to be out of touch scientists, but the writing here should have been better.) And then there's the whole synth/slave angle, a disturbing number of synths trying to free themselves from the Institutes' control, the abductions, etc. These aren't good people, by almost any stretch of the imagination. And even after you become director, many of them still treat you like shit.

However! The Institute clearly has the best resources and technology for the future. They also have vision, albeit highly flawed and morally questionable. With new leadership (me), their technological assets and a change in directive can pave the way for humanity. Also, I didn't want to lose the ability to relay in and out of the Institute, as it's a nice contrast to the surface. :chuckle:To infinity, and beyond!

As you can see, I've probably thought about this all too much. I suppose that also speaks to some decent writing along the way, albeit with some high points and low points. More than anything, the game is about the atmosphere and the world they've built.

There are so many cool flavor and character touches around the world that it's hard not to appreciate the effort that goes into making these games. Little things, like going to inspect some terminals at a nuclear reactor and finding that some of the scientists had been playing DnD back and forth over the mail system before they met their demise. The world is dense as hell with notes like that.

I still hate building in this game. It's not good. And so is the constant scavenging for resources. If you aren't a purist and looking to play the game exactly as is, I highly recommend just giving yourself the resources you need on PC.

Overall, I'd give it a 8.4/10. Points off for some wasted potential (inconsistent writing quality, bugs, crappy UI, Wasteland Scavenger Simulator). With that said, altogether an enjoyable experience.
 
Yeah it's laughable how easily vertibirds get shot down in the game.

I think there's a mod that increases their health. I didn't download it, though, since I have no intention of allying myself with the Brotherhood in the end-game. No sense giving a faction that's about to be my enemy more health, right?
 
Update!

I started pouring hours into the game over the last few weeks and just completed the main story. After getting past and configuring some of the bugs away, I really enjoyed the game and will continue playing some to explore and complete some companion story quests. It just could have been a hell of a lot better.

The first few hours of the game were really, really lackluster for me. Tons of bugs, numerous crashes, bad UI, confusing building system, and a generally dull intro experience once you step out of the vault really prevented me from getting drawn in early on. However, once you push through the first few main story quests and reach
Diamond City
the story really begins to ramp up and engage you with more interesting characters. Somewhat early on I thought I knew which faction I wanted to side with,
but I sort of struggled actually picking one until absolutely forced.

Heavy spoilers beyond:
Originally I was with BoS (as most people probably run into them first), but pretty much only until I received a set of their power armor. A future under BoS authority did not seem appealing to me, as neither would any land run by a military dedicated to the extermination of AI and the confiscation of technology. Cool faction stylistically, what with the power armor and heavy weaponry? Sure. As a path forward for humanity? Yikes. Also, their Vertibirds suck ass and are constantly getting shot down by raiders, gunners, and dumb ass super mutants. I swear 90% of them I saw flying around got shot down.


It took me a bit longer to actually get into the Railroad HQ as every time I went to follow the Freedom Trail I ended up getting sidetracked by things along the way. Once I actually reached the Old North Church door, it was bugged and wouldn't open. So I wandered around and looked for an alternate entrance that didn't exist (fortunately a reload fixed it).

It was hard not to be intrigued by the idea of helping the modern (future) day underground railroad, especially after meeting some of the more interesting synths and being able to empathize with them. The philosophical struggle of what it means to be alive really invokes Descarte and similar ideas in Blade Runner. Are the synths really self-aware and do they possess free will, or is it simply faulty programming that allows them to exercise 'free will' and deviate from Institute directives? I lean toward the former, but remain unsure. Or maybe I missed something in the story that makes the line more clear.

But Desdemona was a cunt to me from the beginning. And these people don't really have a plan for the future outside of 'free the synths'. They feel like probably the best moral option, but the least capable of actually providing a path forward for the Commonwealth. (especially after they determine that the BoS and Institute need to be wiped out). I mean, I'm apparently the only decent soldier they have left, they have little to no research/technology, and just don't seem that capable. These people are terrified of one courser wiping them out FFS. I helped them out for as long as I could and helped them free a bunch of synths while working for the Institute. I delayed for as long as possible relaying into their base and murdering them all, but once the BoS was destroyed and they moved to attack the Institute I was left no other option. Shotgun to the face for Ole' Des. Curtains for the Railroad. (bloody, bloody curtains)

As for the Institute, there was no doubt in my mind that these were the shittiest people of the main factions, especially after learning Shaun had you woken from cryo out of pure morbid curiosity, as an experiment, and expected you to die. Sure, I'll talk to you for a few minutes after going through hell and back on the surface to find my lost son (you) and be totally cool. In fact, let me become your new lackey for surface work since I killed your old one. (I get that these are supposed to be out of touch scientists, but the writing here should have been better.) And then there's the whole synth/slave angle, a disturbing number of synths trying to free themselves from the Institutes' control, the abductions, etc. These aren't good people, by almost any stretch of the imagination. And even after you become director, many of them still treat you like shit.

However! The Institute clearly has the best resources and technology for the future. They also have vision, albeit highly flawed and morally questionable. With new leadership (me), their technological assets and a change in directive can pave the way for humanity. Also, I didn't want to lose the ability to relay in and out of the Institute, as it's a nice contrast to the surface. :chuckle:To infinity, and beyond!

As you can see, I've probably thought about this all too much. I suppose that also speaks to some decent writing along the way, albeit with some high points and low points. More than anything, the game is about the atmosphere and the world they've built.

There are so many cool flavor and character touches around the world that it's hard not to appreciate the effort that goes into making these games. Little things, like going to inspect some terminals at a nuclear reactor and finding that some of the scientists had been playing DnD back and forth over the mail system before they met their demise. The world is dense as hell with notes like that.

I still hate building in this game. It's not good. And so is the constant scavenging for resources. If you aren't a purist and looking to play the game exactly as is, I highly recommend just giving yourself the resources you need on PC.

Overall, I'd give it a 8.4/10. Points off for some wasted potential (inconsistent writing quality, bugs, crappy UI, Wasteland Scavenger Simulator). With that said, altogether an enjoyable experience.

I think this is a great review of the game actually..

Have you started modding yet? I think you can fix a lot of the issues that soured the game for you. The UI and crashes can definitely be fixed, and I've found through some simply mods and other tweaks that I've more than doubled my minimum framerates.
 
BTW, I think the BoS being the enemy is the natural way things should be. These guys are not supposed to be the good guys - hence Elder Lyon's and the Outcast factions dispute over how to approach the people of the Capital Wasteland.

I like the fact that Bethesda went back to a BoS that you wanted to destroy. Even in New Vegas, the split between the two Elders gave you more than ample reasons not to wipe them out.
 
I think this is a great review of the game actually..

Have you started modding yet? I think you can fix a lot of the issues that soured the game for you. The UI and crashes can definitely be fixed, and I've found through some simply mods and other tweaks that I've more than doubled my minimum framerates.

I have not really modded yet, only some basic ini tweaks to make the game functional and remove some bugs. Once that was done a few days after I installed there were no more crashes or stuck characters. The framerates haven't really been an issue. With one of the early on BoS quests I had to turn off clipping to get through a wall to activate a button and complete a quest that had otherwise broken. There were a handful of other less game breaking bugs. All in all these were relatively minor nuisances to be able to actually play the game, but a AAA game should not launch like that, even if we expected it to given their reputation.

I like to play through the first time without making any material mods to the content of the game, unless it's completely broken. In the future I might try another heavily modded playthrough with some different choices. More interesting weapons/armor, less (almost zero) scavenging, more varied/interesting creatures and some new areas please and thank you. :thumbup1:

Just thinking on it, how much time have I spent searching shelves, desks, crates, drawers for useful shit, and then storing extra shit on my companion, and then being encumbered and having to determine which of this shit I should drop so I can fast travel to my settlement, because god knows I'm not going to bother coming back for said shit...that's a not insignificant portion of my playtime. And it's shitty.

I really would rather not have been bothered with building a base, either. One base is bad enough, but to keep sending me out to secure other shitty settlements by saving some helpless assholes that I'll otherwise never visit? AND THEN they have the nerve to warn me that these settlements I don't give two shits about are being attacked? I'm in the middle of doing some super important stage of the main quest and up pops "Oberland Station is under attack!" Fuck em. That's what I say. The bums lost.
 
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