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2011 NBA Redraft

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While I appreciate the high level of attention to grammar/mechanics/effective use of language found on this site (relatively speaking), I think you're being a bit too nit picky with this one.

nit picky to call someone from South America a Euro :chuckles:
 
What you guys talking about...we have our C, he's just hemmed up on the bench right now. With more options on the court, AV's usage could go down, minimizing injury risk.

At 30 he is not our center of the future unfortunately and we would be doing him a great service to find him a team to play for before his career is over or he can no longer play at a high level. (for a 1st round pick ofcourse)
 
Nothing has changed.
Many in the Cav's organization regretted not taking Jonas right after the draft...they still regret it today. Centers are so much harder to come by than PF's. We would have had our PG and C positions filled for the next 10+ years with Kyrie/Jonas. PF's are just MUCH easier to find. Not trying to knock TT or saying he isn't going to be a great pro. But filling the C position first would have been a much smarter move for our rebuild. With Jonas playing overseas, we'd probably have a few more losses this year too. It would have been better for us in a lot of ways.
i'd like to know who led the thompson charge - grant or gilbert? or neither?

it's not that good a sign if it were the former two.
 
Not lazy, just a term. Euro refers more to the league than the country of origin. Andy is an Euro" big although he came South America. Yes plenty of Americans play in the Euro league, but they are all (but 2 or 3 exceptions) failed NBA players and went overseas to play.

What is lazy is not recognizing what the term meant and arguing just for the sake of semantics.

Are you guys really arguing that anyone not from the US is a Euro?:chuckles:
 
Not lazy, just a term. Euro refers more to the league than the country of origin. Andy is an Euro" big although he came South America. Yes plenty of Americans play in the Euro league, but they are all (but 2 or 3 exceptions) failed NBA players and went overseas to play.

What is lazy is not recognizing what the term meant and arguing just for the sake of semantics.

I would be more on board with this if people referred to Eyenga as a Euro, but absolutely no one here has ever done that.
 
Not lazy, just a term. Euro refers more to the league than the country of origin. Andy is an Euro" big although he came South America. Yes plenty of Americans play in the Euro league, but they are all (but 2 or 3 exceptions) failed NBA players and went overseas to play.

What is lazy is not recognizing what the term meant and arguing just for the sake of semantics.

Uhh, I recognize the term when people use it, and it still doesn't make it correct. Andy is not a Euro big, Ginobili is not a Euro guard, and Scola is not a Euro forward. The only way this classification is perpetuated is because lazy/ignorant people started calling them that without recognizing where they were actually from, and just kept calling them that regardless. It's a huge pet peeve of mine.
 
i'd like to know who led the thompson charge - grant or gilbert? or neither?

it's not that good a sign if it were the former two.

If I remember correctly there was talk of a draft and trade with another team but Toronto muffed that up.
I also remember Jonas' team sending word to the Cavs that they would stay in Europe for at least 2 years... Maybe it was his buyout problems. It sounded like he didn't want to be in Cleveland. Maybe that scared the franchise off.
 
Uhh, I recognize the term when people use it, and it still doesn't make it correct. Andy is not a Euro big, Ginobili is not a Euro guard, and Scola is not a Euro forward. The only way this classification is perpetuated is because lazy/ignorant people started calling them that without recognizing where they were actually from, and just kept calling them that regardless. It's a huge pet peeve of mine.

Scola played for 9 years in Spain. Ginobili for 4 years in Italy. Seems the Euro moniker applies in terms of their professional background and development.
 
Hate to be that guy, but Scola and Mozgov are not Euros. Zaza isn't really either, Georgia is sort of Eurasia.

Hate to be that guy, but how is Mozgov not a euro?
 
Scola played for 9 years in Spain. Ginobili for 4 years in Italy. Seems the Euro moniker applies in terms of their professional background and development.

Andy also played in Europe first as well. When you play in Europe they do tend to favor different style of play and have slightly different rules. Not unreasonable to use the Euro moniker to bring across the fact that's where these guy were developed.

Similar to how people tend to think of Ewing, Hakeem, and Duncan as American players even though they were actually born in the Carribean or in Hakeem's case Africa. They developed in the US system
 
Scola played for 9 years in Spain. Ginobili for 4 years in Italy. Seems the Euro moniker applies in terms of their professional background and development.

Nowitzki has been in the league 14 years and has adapted his game to complement the NBA.. is he American?
 
Scola played for 9 years in Spain. Ginobili for 4 years in Italy. Seems the Euro moniker applies in terms of their professional background and development.

That's fair, but what about guys like Rik Smits or Detlef Schrempf? Euros or not?
 
if our scouts and front office loved jonas that much, then why didnt they pick him?

the way i think about it is that jonas is a player basically based on finesse. hes not a banger, and i just cant see him becoming a defensive anchor.

Pros: pick n pop with kyrie would be pretty awesome, he can hit free throws, and hes more of an overall threat (at least it seems like -- remember hes played 0 games in the nba, and he dominated the most against inferior competition in the u19 tourny), floor spacing.

cons: i just dont see him becoming a defensive anchor, whereas tristan has the potential to be, tristan played against (imo) better competition in college ball, according to advanced statistics (hollinger draft rater had him as the third best prospect -- the second best big man behind williams... maybe cavs utilize some form of advanced stats in their analysis?), and hes a hard working 100% hustle player who goes hard all the time.

as for euro big men, the stereotypes are a very real thing imo. how many championships have scola, barg, etc won. how many times have they made a deep playoff run? you could point at gasol and nowitzki, but remember that tyson chandler anchored the defense for the mavs last year (and they had to contain joel anthony at the center position), and remember that gasol played with bynum, who is an imposing banger center. fact is defense wins championships.

do i regret not taking jonas? no, not really. i dont know how jonas will play. i do know that tristan has shown massive potential (more on the defensive end, of course). i do know that at times tristan put up 27 and 12, and a couple other double doubles. i know that he has played like a man (maybe if not at all times, he takes way too long to gather a lot of the time, but this can be fixed) and that he has the potential to be a shot-blocked and shot-alterer in the nba. and i do know that if the cavs took valanciunas, they would have picked two players who have a combined 11 college basketball games. 2 players in the top 5, nonetheless.

i do know that with the first overall pick, basically betting the perception of the franchise, the cleveland cavaliers selected kyrie irving, who not much was known about since he played 11 games in college. they took a relative risk because they had not seen him as much as other prospects (even though he was viewed as the best prospect by most, there was still a ton of uncertainty, what if he would turn out like oden? etc.). at pick number four, the cavs had to take the relatively sure thing in thompson. they had seen him go against good college competition, and it wouldve been a huge risk because what if jonas wouldnt come to the cavs? what if he flopped? i think they said to themselves, 'tristans floor is a very good defensive player and first big off the bench'. his potential is very very high as well. im enjoying watching his hustle, and i think he can be a very good player in this league. all star? dont know, kind of doubt it. but theres a lot more known about tristan than jonas, and with the relative risk taken with the first pick, they needed the sure thing.
 
Starting Centers on NBA Championship Teams Since 89

89-90 - Bill Laimbeer
91-93- Bill Cartwright
94-95- Hakeem Olajuwon
96-98 Mostly Luc Longley with some Wennigton.
99- David Robinson
00-02- Shaq
03- Duncan
04- Ben Wallace
05- Duncan
06- Shaq
07- Oberto (Duncan defended the paint all series)
08- Perkins
09- Bynum (with Gasol playing heaviily at C also)
10- Bynum
11- Tyson Chandler

Yea, I will pass on the Euroleague center, thanks.
 

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