2011 NBA Redraft

[Randolphkeys]

We can compare TT with Jonas for the next 50 pages. TT is a good player with a bright future. Nothing we say in this thread will change that. It still won't change the fact that TT has all of that potential at the power forward position, not center. I'm glad he is a Cavalier and he might be a better fit off the court in building a true nucleus who want to stay in Cleveland long-term... but he still isn't a center.

I have one issue with the old "Euros are soft" stereotype: Look at the rule book. FIBA international rules actually allow for rougher interior play than the NBA. When NBA pros play in international competitions, they whine and complain to the refs constantly because they aren't used to all the bumping and shoving in the paint. I guess the "soft" monicker came to pass because Euroleagues treat their power forwards more like small forwards offensively and defensively. When Vlad Rad and Turkaglu showed up as 6'10 guys with perimeter skills, they were called "soft" rather than "skilled."

So my point is that if Jonas can bump in the paint in the Euroleagues, he will be able to bump in the NBA as well.

 

[Derek]

Starting Centers on NBA Championship Teams Since 89

89-90 - Bill Laimbeer
91-93- Bill Cartwright
94-95- Hakeem Olajuwon
96-98 Mostly Luc Longley with some Wennigton.
99- David Robinson
00-02- Shaq
03- Duncan
04- Ben Wallace
05- Duncan
06- Shaq
07- Oberto (Duncan defended the paint all series)
08- Perkins
09- Bynum (with Gasol playing heaviily at C also)
10- Bynum
11- Tyson Chandler

Yea, I will pass on the Euroleague center, thanks.

You do know that not all big men that come from the EuroLeague are the same, right?

I know the stereotype is soft and perimeter oriented, but Jonas is neither.

 

[trapalizer]

I apologize guys, I understand how you might strongly feel about your opinions and I hope I don't step on any more toes, I came here to be a positive and contributing part of this community and I've realized that I got off on a wrong start, I hope you forgive me and I want to say that I love you all like my bros.

 

[Triumph36]

if our scouts and front office loved jonas that much, then why didnt they pick him?

the way i think about it is that jonas is a player basically based on finesse. hes not a banger, and i just cant see him becoming a defensive anchor.

Pros: pick n pop with kyrie would be pretty awesome, he can hit free throws, and hes more of an overall threat (at least it seems like -- remember hes played 0 games in the nba, and he dominated the most against inferior competition in the u19 tourny), floor spacing.

cons: i just dont see him becoming a defensive anchor, whereas tristan has the potential to be, tristan played against (imo) better competition in college ball, according to advanced statistics (hollinger draft rater had him as the third best prospect -- the second best big man behind williams... maybe cavs utilize some form of advanced stats in their analysis?), and hes a hard working 100% hustle player who goes hard all the time.

as for euro big men, the stereotypes are a very real thing imo. how many championships have scola, barg, etc won. how many times have they made a deep playoff run? you could point at gasol and nowitzki, but remember that tyson chandler anchored the defense for the mavs last year (and they had to contain joel anthony at the center position), and remember that gasol played with bynum, who is an imposing banger center. fact is defense wins championships.

do i regret not taking jonas? no, not really. i dont know how jonas will play. i do know that tristan has shown massive potential (more on the defensive end, of course). i do know that at times tristan put up 27 and 12, and a couple other double doubles. i know that he has played like a man (maybe if not at all times, he takes way too long to gather a lot of the time, but this can be fixed) and that he has the potential to be a shot-blocked and shot-alterer in the nba. and i do know that if the cavs took valanciunas, they would have picked two players who have a combined 11 college basketball games. 2 players in the top 5, nonetheless.

i do know that with the first overall pick, basically betting the perception of the franchise, the cleveland cavaliers selected kyrie irving, who not much was known about since he played 11 games in college. they took a relative risk because they had not seen him as much as other prospects (even though he was viewed as the best prospect by most, there was still a ton of uncertainty, what if he would turn out like oden? etc.). at pick number four, the cavs had to take the relatively sure thing in thompson. they had seen him go against good college competition, and it wouldve been a huge risk because what if jonas wouldnt come to the cavs? what if he flopped? i think they said to themselves, 'tristans floor is a very good defensive player and first big off the bench'. his potential is very very high as well. im enjoying watching his hustle, and i think he can be a very good player in this league. all star? dont know, kind of doubt it. but theres a lot more known about tristan than jonas, and with the relative risk taken with the first pick, they needed the sure thing.

honestly, i wouldn't classify him as a finesse player or a banger. he's sort of in between. or rather, he'll end up somewhere in between. right now he's closer to finesse because he still hasn't filled out his body.

ultimately though i think he'll be a tough defender who will live in the paint on both ends of the court but able to step out and hit jumpers at a good clip. sort of like a joakim noah with a better, more versatile offensive game i guess.


also, i really really doubt thompson ever turns into a defensive anchor. assuming you mean a defensive anchor on a good (at least) defensive team. not only am i skeptical of his abilities but also because it's pretty damn difficult for a defensive anchor to play the 4.

You do know that not all big men that come from the EuroLeague are the same, right?

I know the stereotype is soft and perimeter oriented, but Jonas is neither.

false!

euro bigs simply can never be drafted by the cavs. they are and have always been soft. always. no exceptions.

 

[trapalizer]

I know that's sarcasm but I wouldn't mind having someone tough like Gortat as a backup center and if this draft can provide that or the next one, that'd be awesome, I'd love to have someone like Pekovic, he looks like he'd eat half the centers in the league for lunch, I like tough post players like that, they can set the tone for the whole team, look what Tyson Chandler did to Dallas, I remember watching interview where the whole team gives credit to him for bringing toughness to Dallas. While I love Big Z, being one of greatest Cavaliers ever, obviously, and would love to have people like him on the team in terms of class, he simply was not one of those guys.

But outside of Gortat and Pekovic, I can't think of any Euros that fit that mold, I'd be more than happy to be enlightened though.

 

[metalman213]

can anyone guess this 7 footer who posted these numbers in the u18 tourny while becoming a household name for nba scouts?

26.5 pts/game 13 rbg and 3.5 bpg?

he was the MVP by the way, despite his team losing.

 

[tedginnjr]

can anyone guess this 7 footer who posted these numbers in the u18 tourny while becoming a household name for nba scouts?

26.5 pts/game 13 rbg and 3.5 bpg?

he was the MVP by the way, despite his team losing.

Looks Kosta Koufus esque...

 

[Kouki]

Val is supposed to be a banger, that's what all the scouting reports say about him. Of course, who knows if that will transfer to the NBA, where every night he will be going up against guys just as big if not bigger than him. Time will tell. But I think TT is going to be an AV replacement, and AV is a super duper critical part of a championship team.

 

[metalman213]

Looks Kosta Koufus esque...

correct. what has koufos done in the nba? the fact is euros are so hit and miss. rubio averaged shit numbers, but he played well in the nba. im skeptical that players who dominate against short white unathletic players are going to dominate on the next level. like i said, the cavs needed the surer pick, and id say that tt is the safer pick.

 

[Pavlovic3Ball]

You do know that not all big men that come from the EuroLeague are the same, right?

I know the stereotype is soft and perimeter oriented, but Jonas is neither.

Blasphemy!!!!!!!!

 

[Lee]

I would be more on board with this if people referred to Eyenga as a Euro, but absolutely no one here has ever done that.

I would refer to Eyenga as a Euro. Played in Spain when we drafted him. He is as Euro as Andy.

I dont agree with the term either, but the term does refer to all non North American basketball players. Not worth all the discussion.

 

[Derek]

correct. what has koufos done in the nba? the fact is euros are so hit and miss. rubio averaged shit numbers, but he played well in the nba. im skeptical that players who dominate against short white unathletic players are going to dominate on the next level. like i said, the cavs needed the surer pick, and id say that tt is the safer pick.

Americans are very hit and miss as well, it's not just International players

 

[CleveRocks]

Big men are hit and miss regardless of origin.
In an attempt to redirect the thread back to its original intent, I am going to throw out a controversial hypothetical..

if we had drafted Kanter first, Tristan fourth and Isaiah Thomas in the second round, would we be in better shape going into the 2012 draft?

 

[winner0274]

Big men are hit and miss regardless of origin.
In an attempt to redirect the thread back to its original intent, I am going to throw out a controversial hypothetical..

if we had drafted Kanter first, Tristan fourth and Isaiah Thomas in the second round, would we be in better shape going into the 2012 draft?

If by better shape you mean more ping pong balls, then yea.

 

[Hydroponic3385]

Big men are hit and miss regardless of origin.
In an attempt to redirect the thread back to its original intent, I am going to throw out a controversial hypothetical..

if we had drafted Kanter first, Tristan fourth and Isaiah Thomas in the second round, would we be in better shape going into the 2012 draft?

No. Superstars matter in this league. Neither Kanter nor Thomas will be one, while Irving is already demonstrating his very high potential to be one.