2015 Cleveland Browns Regular Season Thread

[Surge]

If we trade Alex Mack and Joe Thomas, should we just go ahead and make orthopedic surgical consult appointments for McCown?

 

[natedagg]

JT has been here for almost a decade and aside from him and a few other guys we haven't seen a whole lot of professionalism out of this organization. So apparently it isn't really rubbing off.

I would take Denver's 1st-rounder in a heartbeat. We can go 4-12 without Joe Thomas.

I am afraid that you missed the point of the post. Taking my post in totality, you'd (hopefully) realize that simply treating this as a utilitarian exchange of assets (great LT for talent and/or picks) simply doesn't pay homage to the complexity of the situation.

 

[spydy13]

Re: Thomas. If he hasn't asked to be traded and he isn't all pissed off and being a malcontent, then we really shouldn't trade him. The biggest problem that the Browns have is a horrible brand. You have agents telling players not to talk to them. It's a bit of a self-reinforcing(?) feedback loop. Not so much a treadmill of mediocrity, more like a black hole of feces, pulling into it all of the shit, so many players avoid.

We need to build it from the top down so that people say "oh yeah, the Browns, what a solid organization." I think that means taking care of your classy players, especially Joe. So if he's down to stay, he should stay. He will help our other linemen, he will help players practice hard and be professional, he's a role model.

Everyone has a price, so if we get a 1st and 2nd, or a 1st and Shaq, then carry on. But his worth goes beyond what we could get back from the trade.

Sending him off to a championship contender isn't doing wrong by him, at least in my opinion. I mean, of course he's going to say that he doesn't want to leave, but if he's not happy to go to a winning/better situation then that's just weird.

 

[Soda]

Lane Adkins is losing his shit today. Seems to mirror the general sentiment amongst anyone who gets inside the building, but is not paid by the team.

 

[Chris]

Lane Adkins is losing his shit today. Seems to mirror the general sentiment amongst anyone who gets inside the building, but is not paid by the team.

Elaborate?

 

[natedagg]

Sending him off to a championship contender isn't doing wrong by him, at least in my opinion. I mean, of course he's going to say that he doesn't want to leave, but if he's not happy to go to a winning/better situation then that's just weird.

It doesn't matter your opinion on if it's wrong by him. You are not him, nor do you know him. Nor do you have the right to say that it's weird if he doesn't want to get traded to a better team. You don't know what makes him tick. He could have built a life here (family, community, church, places he loves to go, hobbies), and that could all far exceed how he feels about playing for a better team. He might want to turn us around. He might have made a pact that he would never give up on his teammates. You just don't know, neither do I.

Now I think it's very reasonable and logical that you call him into the office, and ask him how he feels about everything, and he'll give you an honest answer. I think it's reasonable and logic that the answer would be exactly as you have said: send me to a contender, that's great. If you think it'd be weird for him to say anything else, then it's logical to have that formality anyway, just to be professional.

 

[GreasySpread36]

I am afraid that you missed the point of the post. Taking my post in totality, you'd (hopefully) realize that simply treating this as a utilitarian exchange of assets (great LT for talent and/or picks) simply doesn't pay homage to the complexity of the situation.

I don't think it is a complex situation. Players come and go, even great ones. At the end of the day, in terms of the game and the organization, Joe Thomas is a commodity- a commodity that is worth something on the open market at that.

 

[natedagg]

I don't think it is a complex situation. Players come and go, even great ones. At the end of the day, in terms of the game and the organization, Joe Thomas is a commodity- a commodity that is worth something on the open market at that.

Got it. We have reached an impasse. I understand your philosophy, I've spoken mine, there's just a disagreement regarding Joe's situation. I don't see him as a commodity, and generally I would agree with your philosophy, but not for Joe Thomas.

 

[Jordan]

Listen, as much as I want a total firesale, I doubt it happens today. If anything, it will happen during the summer. I don't think the front office is stupid enough to do another partial rebuild like we started three years ago. That peaked at 7-4.

Ultimately, I see the (new) front office realizing that there is not much of a core on this team. Hopefully they see ten or twelve guys that could contribute on an eventual team. At everyone's best, Benjamin (as a #2), Barnidge, McCown (as a backup), Duke, Joe T, Mack, Bitonio, Haden, Gipson, Shelton (?), D. Bryant (?), and T. Williams (?). Ultimately, that's twelve players... On a good team I find six that are playing at starter level. That means, at best, you have seven starters and five backups to build a core around. If one or more of these guys needs to go to do the rebuild right than so be it.

The only guy I can see going today is Paul Kruger. I think if we got a great deal for Joe Thomas we would trade him; however, I do not believe we are actively shopping Joe Thomas.

Overall, we'll suck the rest of this year (no more than four wins) no matter who we do or do not trade. And, if the new management (and possibly coaching) does things perfectly, we'll probably be mediocre next year (six or seven wins). But, if everything goes right, I think we can win ten or eleven games two years from now.

Now, as a lifelong Browns fan, I know nothing will ever go even close to perfect. So I don't think we break 8-8 for at least five years.

 

[spydy13]

It doesn't matter your opinion on if it's wrong by him. You are not him, nor do you know him. Nor do you have the right to say that it's weird if he doesn't want to get traded to a better team. You don't know what makes him tick. He could have built a life here (family, community, church, places he loves to go, hobbies), and that could all far exceed how he feels about playing for a better team. He might want to turn us around. He might have made a pact that he would never give up on his teammates. You just don't know, neither do I.

Now I think it's very reasonable and logical that you call him into the office, and ask him how he feels about everything, and he'll give you an honest answer. I think it's reasonable and logic that the answer would be exactly as you have said: send me to a contender, that's great. If you think it'd be weird for him to say anything else, then it's logical to have that formality anyway, just to be professional.

You're right: I don't know what makes Joe tick, nor do you.

You're right: The Browns should keep Joe in the loop on what's going on.

But if the Browns get an offer that they feel is good, then you have to act on that regardless of what Joe wants. Joe was/is a great player, but bending over backwards for his desires is going to get you nowhere when he breaks down over the next few years.

And yes, in MY opinion it's weird that a player wouldn't be excited to play for a winner (assuming he was traded to one and assuming that was how he felt). Isn't that why people play sports (besides making money, which he's done many times over)?

 

[bigfoot5415]

Listen, as much as I want a total firesale, I doubt it happens today. If anything, it will happen during the summer. I don't think the front office is stupid enough to do another partial rebuild like we started three years ago. That peaked at 7-4.

Ultimately, I see the (new) front office realizing that there is not much of a core on this team. Hopefully they see ten or twelve guys that could contribute on an eventual team. At everyone's best, Benjamin (as a #2), Barnidge, McCown (as a backup), Duke, Joe T, Mack, Bitonio, Haden, Gipson, Shelton (?), D. Bryant (?), and T. Williams (?). Ultimately, that's twelve players... On a good team I find six that are playing at starter level. That means, at best, you have seven starters and five backups to build a core around. If one or more of these guys needs to go to do the rebuild right than so be it.

The only guy I can see going today is Paul Kruger. I think if we got a great deal for Joe Thomas we would trade him; however, I do not believe we are actively shopping Joe Thomas.

Overall, we'll suck the rest of this year (no more than four wins) no matter who we do or do not trade. And, if the new management (and possibly coaching) does things perfectly, we'll probably be mediocre next year (six or seven wins). But, if everything goes right, I think we can win ten or eleven games two years from now.

Now, as a lifelong Browns fan, I know nothing will ever go even close to perfect. So I don't think we break 8-8 for at least five years.

Ive given up on that dream. So many guys have come in and blown it up, only to be worse off than before. Just when you sense things may be changing, you realize the guys leading the team are a bunch of low IQ jackasses, and then you have to blow it up again. Everyone wants "their guys", power, and all the scheming.

2002 we had a playoff berth and a nice core. Lack of leadership, bad coaching, and a void of talent forces us to blow it up.

2007 team looks great. Tons of talent everywhere. Hell our 1st round QB didnt even need to play. 2008 comes around, and we panic at 3-5, and the wheels on the train fall off. The locker room was filled with a bunch of cancerous jerks. Hell, I would have killed to see this offense, with Couch at QB.

Slight optimism after last year, but its just going back down hill. What a shit show.

I love JT, but he is rotting away here. He is a 1st ballet HoF LT, but he shouldnt have to be the voice, or be the guy...he should be protecting the guy.

Coaching is abysmal at best, our coordinators couldnt call there way out of a paper bag. Why is it the defense keeps getting hype, only to fail miserably every year? They show signs of hope, then add the infamous missing piece. Suddenly, the D takes 3 steps back.

Trade Haden while your at it.

 

[SixPACK]

 

[Real Deal]

It's time to trade the valuable players so we can maximize our assets for the next regime to fuck up.

Haden should go, Joe should be awarded a trade, dump Crow, Dansby should get us a decent pick back. Release Bowe.

Gilbert should play every snap, good or bad, he either performs or he's out the door.

After this upcoming loss, pull McCown and throw Johnny in the fire so he can burn to ashes and blow away come next season.

Duke Johnson should be getting 10-15 rushes a game, can't believe he doesn't, that's what 3rd round picks do, they're supposed to perform.

Erving needs to play just about every snap, that's what 1st round picks are supposed to do, right Johnny?

San Fran is driving a more explosive tank right now, they're doing everything right, trading their best pass catcher, benching their QB, telling Hyde to pack it in. Browns should take notes.

 

[bigfoot5415]

It's time to trade the valuable players so we can maximize our assets for the next regime to fuck up.

Haden should go, Joe should be awarded a trade, dump Crow, Dansby should get us a decent pick back. Release Bowe.

Gilbert should play every snap, good or bad, he either performs or he's out the door.

After this upcoming loss, pull McCown and throw Johnny in the fire so he can burn to ashes and blow away come next season.

Duke Johnson should be getting 10-15 rushes a game, can't believe he doesn't, that's what 3rd round picks do, they're supposed to perform.

Erving needs to play just about every snap, that's what 1st round picks are supposed to do, right Johnny?

San Fran is driving a more explosive tank right now, they're doing everything right, trading their best pass catcher, benching their QB, telling Hyde to pack it in. Browns should take notes.

Spot on.

Nothing can stop the 49ers Tank.

 

[Jordan]

Ive given up on that dream. So many guys have come in and blown it up, only to be worse off than before. Just when you sense things may be changing, you realize the guys leading the team are a bunch of low IQ jackasses, and then you have to blow it up again. Everyone wants "their guys", power, and all the scheming.

2002 we had a playoff berth and a nice core. Lack of leadership, bad coaching, and a void of talent forces us to blow it up.

2007 team looks great. Tons of talent everywhere. Hell our 1st round QB didnt even need to play. 2008 comes around, and we panic at 3-5, and the wheels on the train fall off. The locker room was filled with a bunch of cancerous jerks. Hell, I would have killed to see this offense, with Couch at QB.

Slight optimism after last year, but its just going back down hill. What a shit show.

I love JT, but he is rotting away here. He is a 1st ballet HoF LT, but he shouldnt have to be the voice, or be the guy...he should be protecting the guy.

Coaching is abysmal at best, our coordinators couldnt call there way out of a paper bag. Why is it the defense keeps getting hype, only to fail miserably every year? They show signs of hope, then add the infamous missing piece. Suddenly, the D takes 3 steps back.

Trade Haden while your at it.

You're preaching to the choir, dude. If it were up to me I'd be trading Joe Thomas, Haden, Mack (if possible), and a bunch of other guys. Out of the twelve I mentioned the only ones I think we should keep are Gipson, Shelton, McCown, Benjamin, Barnidge, and Bitonio. Everyone else should be for sale.

As I said previously, that 7-4 was the high of our most recent rebuild. The 10-6 year was the cap of that rebuild. 2002 should not have been the high, but because management was idiotic, that was the high. The worst thing we could do is to keep this rebuild going on longer than it needs to.

Our team lacks balance (way too much invested in offensive and defensive lines, way too much invested in secondary, nothing invested in linebackers or offensive skill positions). What the Browns should be looking to do is balance that imbalance. I think a total firesale is the best bet but other disagree.