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2015 Cleveland Browns Training Camp Thread

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Just curious what is so absurd about it? Not saying I agree or disagree with him but who knows.
 
I don't think it's absurd, but I think Bowe should tone it down this early to keep his words from becoming just noise.
 
If McCown ends up top 5 in any positive statistical category next year among QBs......well.......hahahaha.
 
Can someone explain to me why so many people think Pryor changing over to WR "late" matters? I was listening to Matt Wilhelm on Cleveland Browns Daily (yeah, I know, but I was in the car, so.....) and he was making a big deal out of how tough it was to learn the WR position, and that Pryor was an incredible longshot to make the team

Really? What kind of rocket scientist do you have to be to learn how to play WR? Especially for a guy like Pryor who has been reading defensive backs and defensive coverage his whole career as a QB? Unless you're a moron like Carleton Mitchell, it's not exactly the position that requires the most mental agility. It's like Wilhelm is trapped inside his own perspective as a former linebacker who made it more on smarts than raw talent, and can't see that every position/player isn't like that.

On a side note, I've listened to Wilhelm enough to conclude that being trapped in his own perspective his pretty much his calling card. He sucks as an analyst/host.

If Antonio Gates -- who didn't play football at all in college -- could so effortlessly transition from basketball to being a dominant TE, why can't a former quarterback learn the WR position?

Maybe Pryor can do it, maybe not. But an inability to learn the position isn't what would keep him off the roster.
 
Can someone explain to me why so many people think Pryor changing over to WR "late" matters? I was listening to Matt Wilhelm on Cleveland Browns Daily (yeah, I know, but I was in the car, so.....) and he was making a big deal out of how tough it was to learn the WR position, and that Pryor was an incredible longshot to make the team

Really? What kind of rocket scientist do you have to be to learn how to play WR? Especially for a guy like Pryor who has been reading defensive backs and defensive coverage his whole career as a QB? Unless you're a moron like Carleton Mitchell, it's not exactly the position that requires the most mental agility. It's like Wilhelm is trapped inside his own perspective as a former linebacker who made it more on smarts than raw talent, and can't see that every position/player isn't like that.

On a side note, I've listened to Wilhelm enough to conclude that being trapped in his own perspective his pretty much his calling card. He sucks as an analyst/host.

If Antonio Gates -- who didn't play football at all in college -- could so effortlessly transition from basketball to being a dominant TE, why can't a former quarterback learn the WR position?

Maybe Pryor can do it, maybe not. But an inability to learn the position isn't what would keep him off the roster.

Maybe WR is more difficult than TE because you have corners to deal with instead of LBs?
 
Can someone explain to me why so many people think Pryor changing over to WR "late" matters? I was listening to Matt Wilhelm on Cleveland Browns Daily (yeah, I know, but I was in the car, so.....) and he was making a big deal out of how tough it was to learn the WR position, and that Pryor was an incredible longshot to make the team

Really? What kind of rocket scientist do you have to be to learn how to play WR? Especially for a guy like Pryor who has been reading defensive backs and defensive coverage his whole career as a QB? Unless you're a moron like Carleton Mitchell, it's not exactly the position that requires the most mental agility. It's like Wilhelm is trapped inside his own perspective as a former linebacker who made it more on smarts than raw talent, and can't see that every position/player isn't like that.

On a side note, I've listened to Wilhelm enough to conclude that being trapped in his own perspective his pretty much his calling card. He sucks as an analyst/host.

If Antonio Gates -- who didn't play football at all in college -- could so effortlessly transition from basketball to being a dominant TE, why can't a former quarterback learn the WR position?

Maybe Pryor can do it, maybe not. But an inability to learn the position isn't what would keep him off the roster.

Gates was a very physical basketball player who also happened to have tremendous hands and is obviously a phenomenal athlete. There are also a lot of things in regard to footwork that take time to learn. In that sense, I think it'd be easier for a guy to transition from basketball than from the QB position to WR. Basketball requires quick feet and sudden change of direction. Pryor might be fast and he might have quick feet, but he was required to do far different things as a QB. Gates came in with more relevant skills to the position, and he also didn't have to unlearn any bad habits.
 

Sucks for Winn, but this is why you have DL depth.

Sounds like it's been another great day for both QB's btw. Little stock put into it, but at least it's better than last year's reports.
 
Just curious what is so absurd about it? Not saying I agree or disagree with him but who knows.

Just Fyi imade this post when the OP only had the pryor tweet, the mccown one is indeed absurd.
 
As usual a pretty level headed story from Terry Pluto...

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2015/08/cleveland_browns_have_terry_ta_13.html#incart_river

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- It's easy to forget that Mike Pettine and Ray Farmer were thrown together to run the Browns.

Pettine wasn't hired by Farmer to coach. Nor was he even interviewed by Farmer, who was an assistant general manager. Farmer was at the Senior Bowl and other places scouting when the Browns were searching for a coach.

It was CEO Joe Banner, with the approval of owner Jimmy Haslam, who hired Pettine to replace Rob Chudzinski on Jan. 23, 2014. Three weeks later -- Feb. 11 -- Haslam fired Banner and General Manager Mike Lombardi, promoting Farmer to GM.

On that date, the Farmer/Pettine relationship began as a football version of a marriage of convenience. The two men really didn't know each other, and had never worked together before. They were new in their jobs. Farmer had never been a general manager, Pettine never an NFL head coach.

Most fans know what happened after that. The team started 7-4 before finishing with five losses. There were issues with Johnny Manziel, Justin Gilbert, etc.

Farmer was suspended for the first four games of 2015 because he was sending illegal text messages during games. That created strain because the coaching staff believed Farmer was second-guessing them.

Just more "Browns Dysfunction," right? But is that really the case?

Well, it doesn't have to be that way.

THE REST OF THE STORY

Start with this basic fact: It's in the self-interest of Farmer and Pettine to make their relationship work. If things collapse here, what are the odds of Farmer landing somewhere else as a GM? Who would hire Pettine as their coach?

Since the Browns returned in 1999, no GM fired by the Browns has held the same job for another team. The only head coach fired by the Browns to find the same role again is Romeo Crennel, who took over as Kansas City's "interim" coach in 2011 for the final three games. He was hired as head coach in 2012, and the Chiefs were 2-14.

You can be reasonably sure that Farmer and Pettine know what has happened to their predecessors. It's very good motivation to work through problems and build a strong business relationship. Farmer and Pettine come across as old-line football guys from the defensive side of the ball who believe that if the team wins, everything else will work out.

You can never be sure, but there doesn't seem to be a battle of egos here.

IT'S BETTER NOW

In the off-season, Pettine invited Farmer to his summer home.

Monday, Pettine characterized their relationship as "singing from the same hymnal virtually on every decision. ... To say we agree on everything would not be accurate. But to say there's a rift or a power struggle or a tug of war, that would be completely inaccurate."

"Great," was how Farmer described his relationship with Pettine when speaking to the media on Friday.

"The guy doesn't invite you to his summer home if he is mad at you or there is a problem," said Farmer. "Mike said it best when he said we were both singing from the same hymnal. The reality is (we) don't have any issues... Do we agree on every player? No. Can we sit down and have a conversation? Yes."

The latest debate about tension between Farmer and Pettine came from a Tony Grossi story on ESPN-Cleveland. Jamil Northcutt was the team's Director of Player Engagement. He was hired by Farmer. I hear Grossi was correct about there being a problem between Northcutt and some of the coaches. Supposedly, Northcutt was one of those who received at least some of Farmer's texts while Northcutt was on the sidelines.

I really don't know the whole deal on Northcutt being fired on July 18. I sense it was fallout from the texting problems. As Farmer said: "That was a mistake on my part. End of the day, I made the mistake."

The NFL also praised Farmer for turning over his cellphone and cooperating with the investigation. Farmer's decision not to offer excuses has been a major factor in repairing his relationship with the coaches.

I doubt Pettine and Farmer are going to let the situation with Northcutt lead to a major break in their relationship. Neither can afford to do so.

THE TURNING POINT

The big change for the two men came after the season with the departure of offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan, followed by the 2015 draft.

The 2014 draft was strange ... the first round (Johnny Manziel and Justin Gilbert) became a disaster. The rest of that draft looked a lot more like 2015, with the players who would appeal to Pettine/Farmer. There was no Manziel sizzle.

Instead, the Browns kept adding linemen, defensive players ... the "Play like a Brown" types who fit what they have been preaching. We will see if they drafted the right guys. But the first round featured Danny Shelton (defensive lineman) and Cameron Erving (offensive lineman). In the next two rounds were Nate Orchard (linebacker), Duke Johnson (running back) and Xavier Cooper (defensive lineman).

The two men are solidly behind Josh McCown as the starting quarterback and taking things very slow with Manziel. Another key to their relationship was how strongly Pettine supported Farmer when Shanahan left. The former Browns offensive coordinator was clearly upset with the front office.

It was during the stories about Shanahan's departure that the Farmer text issue emerged. Shanahan was positioning himself for what he considered a better job as Atlanta's offensive coordinator.

Farmer and Pettine were both tired of Shanahan's complaining. Pettine clearly is more comfortable with new offensive coordinator John DeFilippo. Farmer supported his coach.

A lot of things can go wrong, but so far -- Pettine and Farmer are spending 2015 building their relationship the right way.

ABOUT THE BROWNS

1. I'm not going to gush about Josh McCown as Dwayne Bowe did, saying the veteran could be "a top five quarterback" in the NFL. I'll simply say he looks good. He's poised. At 6-foot-4, he has a starter's size, arm strength and can hold up in the pocket. If you go to training camp, just check it out for yourself.

2. The same with Terrelle Pryor. Watch the former quarterback run routes, catch passes and play the game. Farmer mentioned how most quarterbacks "have good hands" because they "play catch all the time." They also have to catch snaps from centers, as so many plays are now run out of the shotgun formation.

3. I also like how Farmer hinted that Pryor could play some tight end, adding "tight end is semantics." What matters is where players line up on the field as they prepare to go out for passes. Some tight ends rarely block, they are just very big receivers.

4. In some media circles, much is being made of Farmer's vague, circular answer about Manziel's future. How can anyone really know if Manziel has the combination of physical ability plus self-discipline needed to be a starter? It's too early to know and his rocky rookie year offered little reason for faith. The current approach of quietly allowing him to practice makes sense. Why put any expectations on him?

5. I'm looking forward to seeing some real football, especially in the preseason games. The Browns have three intriguing backs -- Terrance West, Duke Johnson and Isaiah Crowell. They have had Glenn Winston around for nearly a year, and they do like him. If the Browns can run the ball effectively, a lot of things will fall into place for this team.
 
Gates was a very physical basketball player who also happened to have tremendous hands and is obviously a phenomenal athlete. There are also a lot of things in regard to footwork that take time to learn. In that sense, I think it'd be easier for a guy to transition from basketball than from the QB position to WR. Basketball requires quick feet and sudden change of direction. Pryor might be fast and he might have quick feet, but he was required to do far different things as a QB.

That all goes to whether or not Pryor has the physical skills for the position, which is a different question. Maybe he doesn't have those. But that has absolutely nothing to do with Wilhelm's endless droning about learning to recognize coverages, cornerback stances, where the safeties are, routes, etc..

Gates came in with more relevant skills to the position, and he also didn't have to unlearn any bad habits.

Again, you're talking about physical skills. Gates came in with absolutely zero knowledge of the position. He had to learn all of that position-specific football knowledge from ground zero, and he did just fine.

Pryor, on the other hand, has seen all that stuff from the QB position, actually had to have the knowledge from the QB position to recognize coverages, etc., and had to see that not just from the perspective of one receiver, but had to read it for all receivers.

Whether or not Pryor has the quick feet and ability to change direction is certainly a relevant question. But that has nothing to do with him changing positions. It has to do with the nature of his athleticism. And leaving aside the raw physical question of how quickly an athlete can change direction, and whether a basketball athlete is more likely to have that physical skill than a QB, the learning of routes and cuts is something for which basketball is no better preparation than being a QB. And in fact, I'll bet Pryor has spent a hell of a lot more time running around during his football days running routes -- or at least watching those routes being run literally thousands of times -- than Gates did before his transition.

I'm not saying Pryor is the next Gates. The point is that Gates' lack of football knowledge experience, much less his total lack of experience at WR/TE, did not prevent his athleticism from making him a dominant pass-catcher.

Wilhelm is over-thinking this.
 
I believe tempering expectation for Pryor makes sense because it's going to take around a year to become more than a developmental wide receiver. He has been on pro sidelines and has been in the QB room. That will help long term, more so than playing basketball... but playing receiver at the NFL level with safeties trying to lay you out is a totally different game.

Take Hines Ward for example. A quarterback coming out of Georgia, Ward was taken in the third round and caught 15 passes as a rookie, contributing mostly on special teams. His second season, he caught 61 balls as an intermediate threat with 7 touchdowns. He became a receiver with great chemistry with the QB because he had experience reading defenses... but it took a season. I'm optimistic Pryor can become a useful receiver, but this season he should be a 5th or 6th WR who helps on special teams.
 
Can someone explain to me why so many people think Pryor changing over to WR "late" matters? I was listening to Matt Wilhelm on Cleveland Browns Daily (yeah, I know, but I was in the car, so.....) and he was making a big deal out of how tough it was to learn the WR position, and that Pryor was an incredible longshot to make the team

Really? What kind of rocket scientist do you have to be to learn how to play WR? Especially for a guy like Pryor who has been reading defensive backs and defensive coverage his whole career as a QB? Unless you're a moron like Carleton Mitchell, it's not exactly the position that requires the most mental agility. It's like Wilhelm is trapped inside his own perspective as a former linebacker who made it more on smarts than raw talent, and can't see that every position/player isn't like that.

On a side note, I've listened to Wilhelm enough to conclude that being trapped in his own perspective his pretty much his calling card. He sucks as an analyst/host.

If Antonio Gates -- who didn't play football at all in college -- could so effortlessly transition from basketball to being a dominant TE, why can't a former quarterback learn the WR position?

Maybe Pryor can do it, maybe not. But an inability to learn the position isn't what would keep him off the roster.

Yeah, I mean I think it's fair to say that it will take years for him to perfect/improve his route running and technique catching the ball, but the dude is 6'5" and can run in the 4.5 territory. That makes up for a lack of experience, as his frame allows you to simply make him a red zone/fly route target which could be hugely valuable for this team.

Obviously he needs to show something to keep him on the roster over Benjamin.
 

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