2015 Free Agency (Cavs Centric)

[Man Called X]

Don't know why you'd compare Jamal Crawford to Mike Miller or Marion though, but okay.

Both older veterans brought in to provide something. Both played heavy minutes the year before and looked great. Both came to Cleveland and looked like corpses compared to who they were last season.

You're really confident that Jamal Crawford wouldn't follow the same trend that Cleveland has seemingly always had?

 

[gourimoko]

Gour, I really think you're overreacting to Love's injury. Sure, it hurt and we need add depth, but you act like we weren't a top two team after the shump, smith, and mozzy trade.

This is Love's 3rd major injury in his short career. I'm definitely not in the camp that says "don't worry about it." I'm also not putting all of this on Kevin Love...

Kyrie Irving is not the model of health either; hell, he might be more injury "prone" than Love, and I know people don't like that term, but these guys don't have histories depicting relative health now do they?

We've also got several posters referencing what Anderson Varejao is going to bring to the table? Do I need to cite @Kypus ' sig again?

Don't take this as jaded or cynical, as that's not my intention even if I come off that way; but, to me, this is about hedging our bets against the potential for injuries.

I'm very much of the mind that talented teams win basketball games, and with James aging, Kyrie and Love ailing, I just think it's a dangerous game to play - betting on the health and well-being of injury prone players.

Edit: as for delly, he obviously played poorly at times, but the guy kept working and we are now seeing the fruits of his labor and what he can provide us.

We'll see next season.

I don't see any reason to bank on that. We still need bench scoring, which we sorely lacked over the regular season..

 

[gourimoko]

Both older veterans brought in to provide something. Both played heavy minutes the year before and looked great. Both came to Cleveland and looked like corpses compared to who they were last season.

You're really confident that Jamal Crawford wouldn't follow the same trend that Cleveland has seemingly always had?

Confident?

More so than I was about Miller or Marion, yes.

I don't think Crawford is a worldbeater, but I think he'd fill a very distinct need on the Cavs, and that's providing bench scoring and opening up a few more opportunities for Smith to knock down threes.

That's all.

 

[Real Deal]

Jamal has pretty much turned into a glorified chucker this season, his FG% was at 39-40%, 32-33% from 3pt, still averaged 16 points but also taking 13 shots.

He has to start a big decline soon right? We should want to mesh guys together, I don't think Crawford and Smith would coexist. We'd also be small with JR being Bron's backup.

Does a Delly/Jamal/JR/TT/Andy look good enough? It may seem good and all, actually I'd take Crawford on the cheap and see what gives.

I'm just more concerned about finding the right guy to play the role what Marion should be playing. Another big for insurance won't hurt either, maybe through draft.

 

[Man Called X]

Confident?

More so than I was about Miller or Marion, yes.

I don't think Crawford is a worldbeater, but I think he'd fill a very distinct need on the Cavs, and that's providing bench scoring and opening up a few more opportunities for Smith to knock down threes.

That's all.

I've just seen far too many veterans come to Cleveland to provide XXX and have Father Time decide they should've hung up the shoes.

Could completely see Crawford following that trend.

I think there are better options that don't replicate skills already on the roster.

 

[Real Deal]

I've just seen far too many veterans come to Cleveland to provide XXX and have Father Time decide they should've hung up the shoes.

Could completely see Crawford following that trend.

I think there are better options that don't replicate skills already on the roster.

We have the full MLE to play with right? LeBron and the boys would recruit somebody to take that is well deserving of more $$ I bet.

 

[gourimoko]

We have the full MLE to play with right? LeBron and the boys would recruit somebody to take that is well deserving of more $$ I bet.

No.

If we're over the apron we don't get the full MLE. And again, without a major overhaul, we'll be over the apron.

 

[Man Called X]

Have we learned nothing from the 8 years of LBJ? Bringing in old veterans does not make the team stronger, it makes the team more reliant on LBJ.

Get players that can improve off the bench, not ring chasing vets that can't guard a chair.

 

[Real Deal]

Have we learned nothing from the 8 years of LBJ? Bringing in old veterans does not make the team stronger, it makes the team more reliant on LBJ.

Get players that can improve off the bench, not ring chasing vets that can't guard a chair.

This actually makes sense. But what young guy that is productive would come here and get payed like a vet?

 

[Man Called X]

This actually makes sense. But what young guy that is productive would come here and get payed like a vet?

There have been plenty of affordable contracts given to mid 20's players. Ed Davis signed with the Lakers for a vet min contract. It's not unheard of to find cheap talent. Hell, I'd be interested to see what KJ McDaniels gets on the open market and whether Houston would even match it.

Just feel like we don't need more 30+ year old vets. We've got enough, including our #1 option. Our core outside of LBJ is basically in their mid 20s. Would prefer someone in that age range.

 

[spydy13]

This is Love's 3rd major injury in his short career. I'm definitely not in the camp that says "don't worry about it."

Short of not stepping on the floor to do his job there was nothing he could do to prevent that injury. It's also not to his shooting arm, so I don't think it is going to affect his place all that much.

Kyrie Irving is not the model of health either; hell, he might be more injury "prone" than Love,

He's been injured plenty in his career, but he's also shown incredible toughness to play through it all too. I also don't buy the severity of some of his injuries earlier in his career as it always seemed to be conveniently timed for when we needed to tank.

We've also got several posters referencing what Anderson Varejao is going to bring to the table?

I don't think we should rely on him, but people that think he's done are overreacting.

I'm very much of the mind that talented teams win basketball games, and with James aging, Kyrie and Love ailing, I just think it's a dangerous game to play - betting on the health and well-being of injury prone players.

But your plan is to trade much of our depth to make room for Aldridge.... How does that help our insurance against injury?

For better or worse, these are our guys. Adding to our core would be wise, but I think we need to keep this group together so that we don't have to start all over chemistry wise.

 

[Lee]

There have been plenty of affordable contracts given to mid 20's players. Ed Davis signed with the Lakers for a vet min contract. It's not unheard of to find cheap talent. Hell, I'd be interested to see what KJ McDaniels gets on the open market and whether Houston would even match it.

Just feel like we don't need more 30+ year old vets. We've got enough, including our #1 option. Our core outside of LBJ is basically in their mid 20s. Would prefer someone in that age range.

We have our first round pick, we have Delly, we have Joe Harris, and then we have Tristan, Iman, and Kyrie.

We do have young players on this team, some obviously more talented then others.

I am all for bringing in more, but we are still in much better shape for the future than the Heat were or outside a team like the Spurs who are finally starting to truly age.

 

[gourimoko]

Short of not stepping on the floor to do his job there was nothing he could do to prevent that injury. It's also not to his shooting arm, so I don't think it is going to affect his place all that much.

My point is that he has a history of injury. That's all.

He's been injured plenty in his career, but he's also shown incredible toughness to play through it all too. I also don't buy the severity of some of his injuries earlier in his career as it always seemed to be conveniently timed for when we needed to tank.

No doubt, but again, my only point is that he too has a significant history of injury.

I don't think we should rely on him, but people that think he's done are overreacting.

I mean, if we can't rely on him, why are we paying him ten million dollars annually?

But your plan is to trade much of our depth to make room for Aldridge.... How does that help our insurance against injury?

Because as unlikely as it was for us to lose Love to a "freak" injury, and as unlikely as it was (supposedly) for Irving to be injured now, I feel that having more players who you can depend on should surely mitigate the risk for injuries derailing your playoff run.

For better or worse, these are our guys.

And this is the exact type of thought process that I am objecting to. We as a franchise are not married to these players (re-read your words, quite telling), and our core is of James, Irving, and Love.

We should not be so adamantly opposed to making sensible trades if they can be made. And understand, I'm not saying they can be -- we might be best standing pat as Lee and MirORich have suggested.

Adding to our core would be wise, but I think we need to keep this group together so that we don't have to start all over chemistry wise.

Perhaps.. Again, I'm definitely open to this line of reasoning; it is certainly sound.

 

[kovanovich]

A few fairly random, but relevant points...

Jamal Crawford will turn 36 next season. In other words, he will be nearly as old as Marion and older than Miller is this season.

Does he "replicate" JR Smith? Of course not perfectly, but he would be playing the same role as scoring SG. At this point, I'd rather invest in a 30 year old Smith, who has demonstrated chemistry on this team, than a 35/36 year old Crawford. Plus, Crawford is under a team option (either that or a partial guarantee), so you'd probably have to trade for him.

A silly player to target unless JR opts out and goes elsewhere.

Thanks to Gouri for laying out how the Cavs could conceivably add Aldridge while keeping the big 3. I don't think it's a good idea, but as Gouri himself says it's important that all options be considered.

Some analytics guys don't particularly like Aldridge, since he is reliant on post ups and long 2s (low efficient shots). Others argue his post threat opens the court for his teammates. I guess I am somewhere in the middle, but no one believes he is particularly effective defensively, especially as a center.

If Love leaves (which I don't think very likely at all), then you could explore LA, but I think I would prefer Love on this team.

A while ago, I posted that the Cavs 2015-16 team salary, assuming everyone of consequence is back, was conservatively in the $102M range with only 11 players, and more realistically closer to $107M. I think we are looking at a figure more like $110M.

Despite that inflated team salary, the Cavs would have really no backup to LeBron (I'm not counting Mike Miller as a legitimate backup at this point), and feel despite the cost they really need to invest in bringing in a guy who can backup LeBron and also preferably play smallball 4. I'll throw out some names:

Jerebko
Teletovic
Wesley Johnson
Babbitt
Mbah a Moute
Dudley
Singler
Aminu

Some of these guys -- especially Aminu -- won't be available for the Cavs' $3.4M taxpayers MLE, but many of them will be. Some may even be minimum guys.

If, despite their team salary, the Cavs want to invest even more, they could use the Haywood contract. The guy I would probably target is Marvin Williams. Can stretch the floor with his shooting, play backup at the 3, and smallball 4. Has been around forever since being overdrafted back in 2005, but still turns only 29 this summer.

Given the realities of the Cavs' salary structure, Gouri makes good points about pulling off a big trade to provide some salary relief and maybe land another big player. I can just say that'd be really risky, at least from a personnel standpoint. From a salary standpoint though, it is something that at least has to be considered. My guess is the Cavs end up trying to bring back pretty much the current roster.

 

[spydy13]

I mean, if we can't rely on him, why are we paying him ten million dollars annually?

I agree that it was a mistake, but it was clearly a sign or good faith to LeBron that no expense would be spared to be a winner. When this contract prevents Gilbert from continuing to spend then we have a problem. Until then it's just a blight on our books.

Because as unlikely as it was for us to lose Love to a "freak" injury, and as unlikely as it was (supposedly) for Irving to be injured now, I feel that having more players who you can depend on should surely mitigate the risk for injuries derailing your playoff run.

First off, Aldridge has had his fair share of injuries as well, including this year with his hand. Second, I think relying on more guys, like we have done this year with Shump, TT, and Delly stepping up big time, is smarter than hoping that we have more super stars healthy at the end of the year. You have benches for a reason.

We as a franchise are not married to these players (re-read your words, quite telling), and our core is of James, Irving, and Love.

We should not be so adamantly opposed to making sensible trades if they can be made.

I agree that we shouldn't stop trying to improve, but we have found a group of guys that play well together and have very few holes. Again, I just think it would be smart to try to add to this group, go through another playoffs, and then move guys if needed. It will be a lot easier to move guys when everyone has a shit ton of cap room to use after next year.