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2016 Presidential Race AND POLL

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Who do you plan to vote for in November?

  • Hillary Clinton

    Votes: 93 39.6%
  • Donald Trump

    Votes: 44 18.7%
  • Other

    Votes: 55 23.4%
  • I won't vote

    Votes: 43 18.3%

  • Total voters
    235
Boomers were able to pay it back because my mom went to college for 5k total. You could pay college off with a part time job. It is wages lagging far behind productivity that makes your comparison apples and oranges

24k would have paid for 1 year of school for me

This is complete bullshit its no ones fault but your own that it cost you 24k. My son is a junior at University of Texas each 15 our semester is about 4k, or less than 10k for the whole year including a summer session.

Ohio State is the same cost for residents.

My wife graduated from Cleveland State in 2007, it cost us 30k in student loans and we are paying them back.

(below is not directed at you Cavatt)

I am for some sort of functioning education system, but what about the labor force. The shortage on Welders for example.

Its funny, there are 3 junior colleges near me that you can get a process tech degree for less than 5k total (which you can get scholarships for funded by all the area refineries due to the shortage) and 2 years of your time and make 70k a year starting out.

So who is going to tell your kids no you dont have the aptitude for college but you can go do this....

I guess I am GenX? I just want both side to stop fucking whining use some common freaking sense and make it work.
 
Why is room and board + meals $14,000/year? How can they justify charging $1,555/month for a small room, with a roommate and community showers/bathrooms?

Supply and demand and as you point out below they are creating the demand, the solution is simple shop else where or deal with it?


I rented an apartment when I was at OSU for $600/month with utilities included and bought my own food for ~$150/month, x 9 months = $6,750 (~$8,000 adjusted for inflation). I had my own bathroom, privacy, a quiet place to study, 10x the square footage, and no roommate.

See you can easily work and go to school and cover your own bills, just bring home $667 a month. If you are so fortunate you can bring home 1500 a month you can even pay the 10k in tuition in cash.

OSU recently mandated that ALL freshmen AND sophomores have to live in the dorms.

Don't go to OSU? Its not the only school.
 
If I am paying for everyones college then my student loans better get paid for. Also, I am going to enroll in a degree in which I won't use just because I can. Culinary school comes to mind.
 
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Boomers were able to pay it back because my mom went to college for 5k total.

When was that? 1922?

24k would have paid for 1 year of school for me

I turned down the best school I got into because of cost - tuition was about $16k/year and the school i chose was barely 1/4 of that. That was 25 years ago, so you'd have to adjust for inflation.

I'd also saved money from my time in the military and had some fairly skimpy GI benefits. And, I served in the reserves for my three years in law school to meet my bills.

I did well enough to get a good job afterwards so I was able to pay off my loans, though because I was paying for myself and didn't have family help, I had to pass up some more interesting opportunities to get the $$.

Bottom line is that I had to make cost a major consideration when I went back to school. I also had to save money beforehand, and work part-time while in school.

A major problem is that for some, college has become more about ticket punching to say you have a degree, versus actually teaching knowledge/skills that make you more valuable. And ticket-punching only benefits the individual, not society.
 
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When was that? 1922?

Apparently you have no idea how ridiculously fast the cost of college tuition has skyrocketed. I got my computer science degree for under $4k and graduated in 1983. within a year of graduation I was earning $25k/year. My son is getting a computer engineering degree and it will cost about $100k by the time he's done. To make his college as affordable as mine was, he'd have to have a salary of $625k within a year of graduation.

I also don't understand you're opposition to entrepreneurs. Sure, a lot of them will fail, but having the ability to take that risk of failure is how you get the googles of the world. Our country needs those successes to happen in the US. Fresh out of college is the best time for people to take that risk. Otherwise they start jobs, buy houses, have kids, etc, and it gets harder to take risks.
 
Supply and demand and as you point out below they are creating the demand, the solution is simple shop else where or deal with it?




See you can easily work and go to school and cover your own bills, just bring home $667 a month. If you are so fortunate you can bring home 1500 a month you can even pay the 10k in tuition in cash.



Don't go to OSU? Its not the only school.

OSU is the flagship state university in Ohio. It offers the most opportunity and they use that advantage to con people out of money. A 4 year education at OSU is $70,000 before books and supplies and hidden fees (and that's not counting their housing expenses for their junior and senior years). $70,000 for a bachelor's degree at a public institution is outrageous.

When did I say I didn't work while I was in school? You are using numbers that applied to my situation over a decade ago. Today's situation is much different, and that was the entire point of my post.

How do you propose a student pays the $24,000 (before books and supplies, so lets say $25,000) that it costs him in his first two years at OSU? There should be no mandate to live on campus at public universities. It's a con. Today's students are being fleeced out of their future by our state and federal governments. Changes need to be made.
 
If I am paying for everyones college then my student loans better get paid for. Also, I am going to enroll in a degree in which I won't lose just because I can. Culinary school comes to mind.

I agree with this. You can't provide a free education for future students without forgiving the debt of those who are hamstrung by bad policy in the past.

I am fine with people paying for college with loans, but funding should always remain consistent and cuts should be made if they can't pay for their bloated programs. There should be one repayment plan and it should apply to everyone. Not one plan for students who took out a loan before October 2007, one for students who first took out a loan after October 2007, and a really special plan for public employees, like the existing plans. The existing plans are: 15% of AGI for 25 years (pre-October 2007 students) vs 10% AGI for 20 years (post-October 2007 students) vs 10% AGI for 10 years (public employees).

How about one plan that offers 10% AGI for 15 years? If you want to pay it off sooner, you can do that too. The pre-2007 students get especially screwed. It could be paid for by eliminating Pell Grants, which are a giant con.
 
Apparently you have no idea how ridiculously fast the cost of college tuition has skyrocketed. I got my computer science degree for under $4k and graduated in 1983.

My son is getting a computer engineering degree and it will cost about $100k by the time he's done. To make his college as affordable as mine was, he'd have to have a salary of $625k within a year of graduation.

Did you both attend the same four year, live-in college? Both live on-campus? Both end up getting B.S. degrees?

I also don't understand you're opposition to entrepreneurs.

Huh? I'm not remotely opposed to them. In fact, I think plenty of folks might do better as entrepeneurs (small scale) than going to college period. Apple was started by two guys with barely any college between them, and who were actually working other jobs while working on their computer.

Sure, a lot of them will fail, but having the ability to take that risk of failure is how you get the googles of the world.

What does that have to do with loan forgiveness? We got Google, and Apple, and all the rest under the system where you were required.to repay your college loans. Ergo, you don't need loan forgiveness to get Google.

The Steve's barely attended college. Larry Brin was a successful Ph.D. student, whose ideas and work were so impressive that he managed to raise significant money to start Google. And as I said in another post, if someone has a good enough idea to get real money from real investors, then they should go for it.

What I oppose is loan forgiveness for everyone just on the off chance that a few will be successful entrepeneurs. Why shpuld taxpayers suck up the cost of a colege education for every checuklehad who thinks he's going to be the next youtube star? The people with the truly big, great ideas -the Steves, and Brin, and others, will find a way to succeed anyway.

Fresh out of college is the best time for people to take that risk. Otherwise they start jobs, buy houses, have kids, etc, and it gets harder to take risks.

Then how is it that there are so many entrepeneurs? Where did all those startups come from, if it is so impossible without college loan forgiveness? Just look at your own example of Google. How did those guys manage to start that company without college loan forgiveness?
 
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OSU is the flagship state university in Ohio. It offers the most opportunity and they use that advantage to con people out of money. A 4 year education at OSU is $70,000 before books and supplies and hidden fees (and that's not counting their housing expenses for their junior and senior years). $70,000 for a bachelor's degree at a public institution is outrageous.

When did I say I didn't work while I was in school? You are using numbers that applied to my situation over a decade ago. Today's situation is much different, and that was the entire point of my post.

How do you propose a student pays the $24,000 (before books and supplies, so lets say $25,000) that it costs him in his first two years at OSU? There should be no mandate to live on campus at public universities. It's a con. Today's students are being fleeced out of their future by our state and federal governments. Changes need to be made.

You completely missed my point, and the conversation was not directed at just you. I was implying you could work while in school i was saying anyone could. Thanks to the substantial changes to minimum wages the costs still are pretty close.

Again 24k ... go to a different school. 70k is dumb don't pay it, go to a junior college for the first two years than transfer, that beats the two year mandatory for freshmen and sophomores being required to stay on campus. There are a lot of solutions to these problems. Not just one, and that being making all school free.
 
Again 24k ... go to a different school. 70k is dumb don't pay it, go to a junior college for the first two years than transfer, that beats the two year mandatory for freshmen and sophomores being required to stay on campus. There are a lot of solutions to these problems. Not just one, and that being making all school free.

Schools can get away with charging that outrageous shit because they know enough students are going to be able to borrow enough money to pay for it. I linked an article pointing out how colleges are adding ridiculous amenities/luxuries as a way to attract students, and that shit all goes to costs. So the solution is to stop paying for schools that have that stuff, and go elsewhere. Problem is that a lot of kids have their hearts set on their imagined dreamed "college experience", and too many parents aren't willing to say "no".

As RonG said, one answer to overpriced colleges is going to community college for a couple years. My daughter was not a great student in high school -- too much goofing off. So I told her I wasn't going to pay for her to go to her dream school until she demonstrated she was taking school seriously. So, it's (at least) one year in community college, and then we'll see what happens after that.

ETA: And I agree that state schools making on-campus housing mandatory for the first two years is b.s.. It's just that they've spent all that money for cool new dorms, dining halls, etc., and they're trying to ensure they make back that investment by draining students of college loan money.
 
You completely missed my point, and the conversation was not directed at just you. I was implying you could work while in school i was saying anyone could. Thanks to the substantial changes to minimum wages the costs still are pretty close.

Again 24k ... go to a different school. 70k is dumb don't pay it, go to a junior college for the first two years than transfer, that beats the two year mandatory for freshmen and sophomores being required to stay on campus. There are a lot of solutions to these problems. Not just one, and that being making all school free.

I agree that, under the current environment, anyone who isn't rich should not go to OSU for their first two years of school. What OSU is doing should be illegal.
 
I agree that, under the current environment, anyone who isn't rich should not go to OSU for their first two years of school. What OSU is doing should be illegal.

My parents were broke as hell when I was growing up, and my brother and I both knew that absent scholarships, we wouldn't be able to afford it even back then. So it was either get some scholarships, or wait a few years to go to college.

My brother is an extraordinary bright guy now earning well into the six figures, and he was an excellent student. But even with some scholarships, all he could afford was Akron, and that was including working in the cafeteria. Our kids - and the kids of our lot of our friends - kind of recoiled in horror at being expected to do something like work in a cafeteria.

The idea that everyone in the 70's-90's could afford a regular 4 year college because loans/money was so easy to get is a myth. It was never as easy or affordable as some make it out to be now. And a lot of people didn't go to college until having spent years in the workforce, and even then it was sometimes night school/community college.
 
Did you both attend the same four year, live-in college? Both live on-campus? Both end up getting B.S. degrees?

I went to a college close to my house and walked to school most day. 4 year degree, double major, had a job a NASA lined up before graduation.

Huh? I'm not remotely opposed to them. In fact, I think plenty of folks might do better as entrepeneurs (small scale) than going to college period. Apple was started by two guys with barely any college between them, and who were actually working other jobs while working on their computer.

Steve Jobs attended plenty of college. He just didn't get a degree. He learned plenty of things at college that he used to make Apple great. He just found a way to do it for free by auditing the classes and sleeping wherever he can. I don't know if that's even possible today.

Then how is it that there are so many entrepeneurs? Where did all those startups come from, if it is so impossible without college loan forgiveness? Just look at your own example of Google. How did those guys manage to start that company without college loan forgiveness?

We are talking about addressing the issue of the massive amount of loans most people need to get an education today and the burden/restrictions it causes. It makes people less likely to take a chance at starting their own business. Yes, we'll still have entrepreneurs. The system is putting a drain on it, though. And ultimately that hurts everyone. Entrepreneurs build the companies that grow the economy and generate jobs.

If you finish school with no debt, you don't really need funding to start a business. You can live at home for a year or two and build a business with a computer and an internet connection. Your only real expense is food and maybe some server space somewhere. You can spend 60-100 hours a week working on it. Even a small amount of revenue early on is enough to get by on if you can live on next to nothing.

If you have $100k of student loans, you can't do that without some real funding that has to include enough to cover your loan payments. And funding is really hard to find when you start a new business. You have a significant bill to pay, you have to take a job working for someone else to pay the bills, which also adds other expenses such as your commute.

The more time that passes, the more hurdles you have (car payment, rent/mortgage, wife, kids, etc.), the harder it is for people to take that chance they were forced to pass on early on. It's really, really hard to quit your job and start your own business when you have a job that comfortably pays your monthly expenses.

The other issue is some families can afford to pay for their children's education while the prospect of $50-80k of debt is enough for other families to not even give their children a chance to attend. That is broken.
 
The idea that everyone in the 70's-90's could afford a regular 4 year college because loans/money was so easy to get is a myth. It was never as easy or affordable as some make it out to be now. And a lot of people didn't go to college until having spent years in the workforce, and even then it was sometimes night school/community college.

Akron is over 11k a year, so close to $45k for a 4 year degree (the tuition number will go up over those 4 years). That's about 12x what it cost to go to a comparable school in the 70s or early 80s. Neither number includes room and food. Salaries haven't remotely kept up with that.

This graph doesn't go back to 1980 but I'm sure the trend is the same

earnings-of-college-grads-and-cost-of-college12.gif


The flip side of this is the average salary (adjusted for inflation) for people who don't attend college has declined
 

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