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2019 Browns Off Season/Roster Discussion

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It bothers me that this is Corbett’s 2nd year in the league, he clearly was outmuscled last season, and this is still his body in OTA’s.

He has such narrow shoulders, no muscle tone. He looks like he’s a high schooler.

This guys needed to put some serious work into getting stronger.

I really don’t want to be negative on him before we see him play actual football games, but it seems he isn’t where you’d expect after having an entire season in the NFL under his belt.


We can hope they made the right pick once the unit gets working together, but so far the reviews are he is eh... which isn't what you want to hear. I am sure though at the end of the day someone will step up and take the position even if its not Corbett
 
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It bothers me that this is Corbett’s 2nd year in the league, he clearly was outmuscled last season, and this is still his body in OTA’s.

He has such narrow shoulders, no muscle tone. He looks like he’s a high schooler.

This guys needed to put some serious work into getting stronger.

I really don’t want to be negative on him before we see him play actual football games, but it seems he isn’t where you’d expect after having an entire season in the NFL under his belt.


He looks like Off-Season Joe Thomas.

Which isn't good.

Maybe he has really good technique or a low center of gravity?
 
He looks like Off-Season Joe Thomas.

Which isn't good.

Maybe he has really good technique or a low center of gravity?
He’s definitely a lower half type of build.

Legs, hips, butt. Former wrestler with that understanding of leverage.

I just look at the guy and he doesn’t look like he’s stepped in a weight room before.
 
He’s definitely a lower half type of build.

Legs, hips, butt. Former wrestler with that understanding of leverage.

I just look at the guy and he doesn’t look like he’s stepped in a weight room before.

To be fair, he is extremely thick in his lower half. Sure, he's not Joel Bitonio but very few guys are.

For reference:
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Wide receivers are ranked according to DYAR, or Defense-adjusted Yards Above Replacement. This gives the value of the performance on plays where this WR caught the ball, compared to replacement level, adjusted for situation and opponent and then translated into yardage. DYAR (and its cousin, YAR, which isn't adjusted based on opponent) is further explained here.

The other statistic given is DVOA, or Defense-adjusted Value Over Average. This number represents value, per play, over an average WR in the same game situations. The more positive the DVOA rating, the better the player's performance. DVOA (and its cousin, VOA, which isn't adjusted based on opponent) is further explained here.

I read the descriptions.

There are some guys putting this together as his job--and it's going to be rushed. It's going to be sloppy. It's going to be inconsistent. Then at the end of the day, the company is going to sell it as the best, most accurate, blah blah blah. There's no magic sauce-and if it comes out looking like crap, I'm going to be skeptical of the recipe.

For example, DYAR, how do you get the replacement level baseline, and how do you rank how much more this player got than the replacement level?

DVOA is so shaky in football because of the limited number of games in a given season. I like it for a quick cursory glance--but it's definitely not something I'm going to hold as gospel.
 
Here is a link from Anthlon Sports raking Odell #4 and Jarvis #10 for 2018.

https://athlonsports.com/nfl/nfl-wide-receiver-rankings

And here is one that has Odell at #6 and Jarvis #11-15, this article is more about Amari Cooper, but its another sports writers opinion.

https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/da...g-top-15-nfl-wide-receivers-amari-cooper-rank


Personally I have Odell in top 5, maybe top 3, and Jarvis top 15, maybe 15 itself. Not sure what you call Elite, but Jarvis is very good.

My definition of elite is always the top tier of the position in the league. So, something like Nuk, AB, OBJ, Julio--it's a rare class. It definitely doesn't go 10 deep, or 15.

Personally, if you drop Antonio Brown a bit for the way he's handled himself, I have OBJ at #2 behind Nuk.

Just at a quick glance, I think there are 15 WR's I'd take over Jarvis. In no particular order:

AJ Green
Juju
OBJ
Nuk
Mike Evans
Michael Thomas
Julio Jones
Adam Theilen
Stefon Diggs
Davante Adams
Amari Cooper
Tyreek Hill
Keenan Allen
Antonio Brown
Brandin Cooks

I'd have Jarvis somewhere with Emmanuel Sanders, Allen Robinson, TY Hilton, Will Fuller and Kenny Golladay. So, somewhere around 16-20.

Then, for whoever said that Jarvis is crazy overrated because of a pro-bowl appearance, every AFC guy on that top list was selected ahead of Landry, except AJ Green because Green was out with injury.
 
Any WR that has 100 catches and doesn't break 1000 yards will never be pro bowl worthy. That's pathetic.
 
I'd argue Landry's ball tracking ability and hands are great and sometimes bordering on elite. With OBJ in the fold, he is going to look even better.

See catch #4 - that's an all-star grab.

Y'all haters deserve a blessing.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5z1-yFm9eI

So... I feel like I've been the primary guy on here defending Landry. But if I'm ranking him somewhere in the 16-20 range, am I a hater? While Jarvis may have some elite traits, to me he is not an elite WR because my definition of elite WR only applies to a handful of guys.

Also, even Jarvis himself would say he left a lot on the field last year. It was probably his worst season since high school, as I've never seen him bumble as many plays as he did last year.

So, while I'm defending him, I also have to balance your highlight video with this potentially game-losing blunder from week 17:

Landry1.gif


Can't wait to watch Baker and our offensive weapons Bless the rest of the NFL this year though.
 
So... I feel like I've been the primary guy on here defending Landry. But if I'm ranking him somewhere in the 16-20 range, am I a hater? While Jarvis may have some elite traits, to me he is not an elite WR because my definition of elite WR only applies to a handful of guys.

Also, even Jarvis himself would say he left a lot on the field last year. It was probably his worst season since high school, as I've never seen him bumble as many plays as he did last year.

So, while I'm defending him, I also have to balance your highlight video with this potentially game-losing blunder from week 17:

Landry1.gif


Can't wait to watch Baker and our offensive weapons Bless the rest of the NFL this year though.
I’ve done plenty of Landry defending on here. Many people have.

Rest-assured, you aren’t a martyr.

A few months ago, this same meaningless debate took place, yet again.

Landry is a complete receiver who also blocks, is a leader in the position room, and changes the team culture.

Is he overpaid a little? Sure. $14-15 million/year is too high. But is that really so bad when $12 million would be a good deal?

Look at the money Tyrell Williams just got. Look at Adam Humphries. In a year’s time, Jarvis might be right where he belongs.

Until then, I fully anticipate increased efficiency from Jarvis very soon.

Last year’s catch percentage was roughly 20% below his normal output. He was the guy game-planned for by opposing defenses. We lacked weapons and our young players struggled in their first year with meaningful snaps. I’m sure he wasn’t personally satisfied, and he’d tell anyone that.

With Beckham in the fold, I would expect another 80 catch season from Landry, but this time on numbers much more efficient—in line with his career or better.

80 catches, 1075–1125 yards, 6 TD’s while blocking his ass off and serving as a leader on this team. That’s an elite #2 receiver.

It’s hard to rank him as there are only so many legit number ones in the league. Probably only 12-13 of them. Thus, being one of the best #2’s, that puts him squarely in that 14-16 range.
 
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My simple take on Juice and our WRs in general:

I’m glad that Juice is no longer our #1, but I’m happy he’s our #2. I’m also very glad that we have two young guys fighting it out to be our #3 and that each have different skill sets they bring.

I think our receiving core is set up to be very special for years to come and we have the ability to make moves if needed or can survive if guys want to leave because of our depth.
 
Jarvis Landry is a solid to good WR who is being paid like an elite WR.

He's certainly not the best WR on his own team anymore with Beckham in the mix and the case could be made that given the same volume, Callaway and Higgins would produce more efficiently than Landry has and would.

My guess is that if Landry does stick around past this season it will come with a restructured contract.

If he refuses, I could see him getting cut and the Browns allocating that money elsewhere.

The guy is certainly not a bad player, just an overpaid one for his production.
 
My definition of elite is always the top tier of the position in the league. So, something like Nuk, AB, OBJ, Julio--it's a rare class. It definitely doesn't go 10 deep, or 15.

Personally, if you drop Antonio Brown a bit for the way he's handled himself, I have OBJ at #2 behind Nuk.

Just at a quick glance, I think there are 15 WR's I'd take over Jarvis. In no particular order:

AJ Green
Juju
OBJ
Nuk
Mike Evans
Michael Thomas
Julio Jones
Adam Theilen
Stefon Diggs
Davante Adams
Amari Cooper
Tyreek Hill
Keenan Allen
Antonio Brown
Brandin Cooks

I'd have Jarvis somewhere with Emmanuel Sanders, Allen Robinson, TY Hilton, Will Fuller and Kenny Golladay. So, somewhere around 16-20.

Then, for whoever said that Jarvis is crazy overrated because of a pro-bowl appearance, every AFC guy on that top list was selected ahead of Landry, except AJ Green because Green was out with injury.

No disagreement here, probably a few make a separate tire on your list like Brandin Cooks and Keenan Allen are a tier below Julio or Evans. I feel Mike Evans is the best WR who doesn't get the credit he deserves.

But yeah, Landry is top 20ish, agreed.
 

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