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Johnny Manziel: Swan Won't Return His Calls

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The spread offense isn't primarily run in the NFL during the regular season, although this past Super Bowl has illustrated it's effectiveness in a must-win situation at the pro level. During the regular season, RGIII got hurt, Kaepernick threw from the pocket, and Braxton Miller played college ball.

RGIII got hurt, then they tried implementing him more in the pocket, and Washington struggled mightily to move the ball without RGIII as a threat with his legs. Kaepernick is straight power spread. Kaepernick executes the pistol offense with heavy elements of zone read. San Fran also moves the pocket for Kap a ton, so saying he throws from the pocket primarily isn't the whole truth. Braxton Miller was an example most people can conceptualize being on an Ohio sports board. But elements of Ohio States current system under Tom Herman/Urban Meyer are definitely becoming very commonplace in the NFL. As you mentioned, Seattle moves Russell Wilson a ton as well, with elements of spread offense.


Correction, we don't see the old power run game in the college game anymore because the college game is exclusively spread, while the pro game borrows elements and weaves it into the pro style offense. The pros run a hybrid, hence your examples of Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, and Drew Brees. What is most important with Manning, Brady, and Brees is clearly not their mobility.

I think its disingenuous to say Denver, New Orleans, and New England don't run a spread offense. Each team operates almost exclusively from 3+ WR sets when taking split TE's into account. None of them feature a power run game. All of those teams are operating spread based offenses. It's no secret Chip Kelly spent several straight off-seasons in New England with the Patriots staff teaching them elements of his offense pre-NFL job jump. Denver's OC is considered a "spread guru". And New Orleans is a quintessential spread offense.


The bolded section, again, show that you aren't talking about the pro game as much as the high school and college games. In the pro game, running the college spread plays exclusively lead to too many hits on your QB. Oakland recently tried to run college plays with Terrelle Pryor and clearly there were problems. Namely, the few choices of receivers are easily covered and the QB ends up hurt.

To most peoples surprise, Terrelle Pryor is much more comfortable in a Pro-Style offense. For all of Terrelle's natural ability, he hates contact and is not a north-south runner. He went to Ohio State over Michigan (Rich Rodriguez) and Oregon (Chip Kelly) because he wanted to learn in a more pro-style system (Jim Tressel). For all of Terrelle's broken play scrambles, the guy was pretty awful on designed QB runs. Just not natural for him. And Oakland didn't really run "college plays" for him once he took the starting reigns. They tried developing a special package for him when Palmer was the starter but it was a brutal plan. Once Terrelle took over starting duties he looked decent under Olsen until his OL fell to shambles and he had one of the worst receiving cores in football to throw too. It was just an awful situation for Pryor to succeed. The Seahawks in probably the best thing that could happen to him.

I'm short on time, but if Manziel's legs and escapability were on Hoyer's experienced brain and height, we would be having a different conversation.

I like Hoyer and the things he showed last year. I like that he has a quick trigger and has shown good leadership qualities. I'm just hopeful Manziel is able to carry some of his magic from A&M to the NFL. Will he? It's tough to say. I like his escapability, I like his frame in terms of taking hits (he's compact and has shown an ability to avoid huge hits), and I like his guts on the field. A lot of that can get him in huge trouble in the NFL, but with some experience and a solid run game, I think he could be pretty good. We'll see....

In the meantime, I'll support whoever is under center, and hope the Browns can compete in a very mediocre AFC North.
 
I'd stop to talk about IPAs and Rye PAs but... I"VE GOT TOO MUCH FUCKING MONEY IN MY HAND

But on a more relevant note... I've never been so pumped for the preseason.
 
Billmac, I'm short on time at this point, I wish you posted earlier today... I'm toast for two days.

That said, I disagree with only one major premise of yours: defining what a pro style offense is, and what a spread offense is. Three wide with a tight end/H back has been around longer than the spread. Hell, the run and shoot had 3 wide and an H back in the late 1980s. Elway beat the Browns in 1987 with that personnel. My point is that all these concepts get assimilated into pro schemes, they don't replace.
 
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kyle shanahan has conitnued to give manziel props. "he is further along in the playbook than we expected" he is ready for some first team reps" etc Pettine take a much more critical stance.

It may be a simple matter of selective listening... Kinda like what Phills said below.. Don't read too much into it. They've been in Training Camp for 2 weeks, I'd be surprised if a "rift" was already developing into an issue...

Browns quarterback Johnny Manziel said Thursday that he’s a better player in games than he is in practice because of an increased freedom to improvise, something that won’t help him all that much if he can’t get on the field.

It sounds like Manziel will have a chance to grab that playing time soon. Head coach Mike Pettine and offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan both said, via Nate Ulrich of the Akron Beacon Journal, that they plan to give Manziel reps with the first team soon. They also said that it would be wrong to read too much into Brian Hoyer getting the first shot with the first team, because, per Pettine, Manziel is further along mentally than the team thought he’d be and because neither quarterback has done anything to speed up the decision-making process..

“I don’t think one is ahead of the other,” Shanahan said. “I hope one will make the decision easy on us.”

If Manziel doesn’t do that, Shanahan said that he’ll have a package of plays ready for the rookie quarterback to run in the opening week of the season in the event the team decides to use both quarterbacks in that week’s game plan. The chances of that happening will be higher if Manziel performs well once his chance with the starters does come.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ohnny-manizel-will-work-with-first-team-soon/
 
Nate Ulrich ‏<s>@</s>NateUlrichABJ <small class="time"> 3h </small> <s>#</s>Browns OLB Sheard said Manziel wears defenses out. Experienced that in scrimmage: "You get tired fast. ... I had nothing left in the tank."

Manziel completed four consecutive passes – one to the left, one to the right and two over the middle. Coach Mike Pettine agreed that Manziel was more assertive in knowing where to go with the ball. “That’s also understanding the play and then who he’s reading. Am I reading the weak safety? Am I reading the strong safety? Where am I looking to go with this ball? I think that’s true of any rookie quarterback. Most of the time, they’re much slower. They have to anticipate. Where Hoyer’s ahead is his ability to throw a ball before a guy breaks open. But we certainly see Johnny make strides in that direction,” Pettine said.


Manziel split time with the first team line and both quarterbacks had excellent passing days.

Pettine on Manziel

"He understands football, but when you switch offenses and you're going from just a completely different system, it's just like learning a foreign language," Pettine said. "You know it in your own terms, but then you have to find out, 'OK, how do I translate? What I know was this is now this.' That's just part of the learning curve for everybody, especially rookie quarterbacks."
 
Probably couldn't have come from a worse system in terms of being ready for a Kyle Shanahan type scheme.

A&M, as Manziel has already said, requires almost no reads and is just such a basic exploitation of easy mismatches.

Uphill climb to be sure.
 
Probably couldn't have come from a worse system in terms of being ready for a Kyle Shanahan type scheme.

A&M, as Manziel has already said, requires almost no reads and is just such a basic exploitation of easy mismatches.

Uphill climb to be sure.

Which is why I hope we start Hoyer and give Manziel more time. If there are any doubts at ALL about Manziel being ready, even if the competition is neck-and-neck, we should go with Hoyer.

If Hoyer comes out and struggles, we can give him a quick hook at the Week 4 bye and then Johnny will have had 4 extra games to learn. If Manziel comes out and struggles, there's no going back unless we want a repeat of every awful QB controversy we've had over the past 15 years.
 
Herman Edwards and several other coaches are under the philosphy that if a young qb and veteran are about the same. you go with the young qb

Shananhan has a history of going for the younger guy which is why the Ben Tate and Terrance West. on the defensive end who comes out on top between Skrines and Gilbert is an interesting battle.

so far only Joe Bitono has cracked the starting lineup up amongst the 19 rookies
 
Herman Edwards and several other coaches are under the philosphy that if a young qb and veteran are about the same. you go with the young qb

Shananhan has a history of going for the younger guy which is why the Ben Tate and Terrance West. on the defensive end who comes out on top between Skrines and Gilbert is an interesting battle.

so far only Joe Bitono has cracked the starting lineup up amongst the 19 rookies

That's why he's currently on ESPN and not on the sidelines.
 
That's why he's currently on ESPN and not on the sidelines.

ahh so because he doesn't coach anymore his opinion is much more worthless than people who have never coached a game.

Also the KC team was completely stripped of a veteran presences giving herman one of the youngest teams in the NFL.

when pioli took over and brought in haley. he brought back some vets that the previous gm wouldnt give edwards and KC had a turn around season. in year 4 of the rebuild. which is the standard turnaround for most rebuilds despite recent teams doing one year dramatic turnarounds.

if anything Edwards has far more understanding of the impact of young players on a team succes or lack thereof than many of us would.

also i cited herm edwards as an examlple because he was ont he top of my head. give me a day or so and illl be ha[[y to list many more respected nfl coaches who would make the same decision.

We can start with the coaches who chose to start Griffin, Wilson, Kaepernick , etc
 
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Insert talking head media comment about someone who prefers a veteran QB.

Excellent discussion.

Probably should take out Kaep from your list, took him about a year and a half. I'd imagine you'll have worked yourself into an early grave long before reaching that marker without seeing Manziel play.
 
It would be foolish to start him week 1 in Pittsburgh. I think Hoyer is going to get the first 3 games, maybe more, and I think, as Pettine would say, that has been the plan all along. The Flash situation plays into that too, as I'm sure they don't want Johnny coming to the line with just his dick in his hand. He needs time to sit and watch and that is exactly what will happen. If Hoyer struggles and it's week 6 and we are 1-4, I expect it to be Johnny time. If we are 3-2, more Hoyer.
 
sounds like a true QB competition may finally be under way. Love it.
 
My opinion on this is whoever starts week 1 in Pittsburgh has little to do with Manziel, and everything to do with Hoyer. Manziel can look great in the preseason and it won't mean anything. The job is Hoyer's to lose. If Hoyer looks respectable out there then he'll be the guy to open the season. He'll really have to struggle for him to not be the starter.
 

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