Johnny Manziel: Swan Won't Return His Calls

[SixPACK]

preseason game doesn't affect his piss poor accuracy. Constantly throwing low or behind receivers. Hoyer sucked too, the Browns just don't have an NFL caliber QB. It is that simple. Get ready for a lot of Tate and West and hope this defense is for real.

I was high on the Browns D in fantasy but shit, looks like they are going to be on the field freaking 36min/game. Our defense can only hold up so much. Hopefully they feel bad for us and let Gordon come back right now otherwise we will be seeing a lot of....

 

[Mr. Orange]

It's ridiculous to give up on anyone before they play a real game. All you have to do is look at B00bie's avatar to realize he is not an infallible scout. I think there are a lot of reason's JFF may fail, but I am willing to give him a chance to succeed or fail. Jigo made good points about Favre. Just relax, let's see where we stand in late Oct.

 

[AZ_]

Don't do this to yourselves guys.

Setting a specific game when it's going to be OK to be worried or when you'll officially give up hope. Until Manziel stops breaking down in his mechanics, better understanding the complexities of the NFL defenses and acting more like an NFL QB it's not going to matter if it's 1, 2, 5, 10 games into his career.

 

[AZ_]

It's ridiculous to give up on anyone before they play a real game. All you have to do is look at B00bie's avatar to realize he is not an infallible scout. I think there are a lot of reason's JFF may fail, but I am willing to give him a chance to succeed or fail. Jigo made good points about Favre. Just relax, let's see where we stand in late Oct.

Yes, I think it's obvious based on my unabashed love of Brandon Weeden that I don't really know what I'm talking about.

Still don't think he got a fair shake here. The greener pastures of Dallas will rejuvenate the career of our former spry gunslinger.

 

[Soda]

Don't do this to yourselves guys.

Setting a specific game when it's going to be OK to be worried or when you'll officially give up hope. Until Manziel stops breaking down in his mechanics, better understanding the complexities of the NFL defenses and acting more like an NFL QB it's not going to matter if it's 1, 2, 5, 10 games into his career.

This, I think, is legitimate. My response to that would be, is all of this insurmountable? Is he that bad to the point where he'll never be good? No chance? How do we know this at this point?

I can understand that your eyes see issues.. Mine absolutely do/did. What about this, after less than 4 NFL pre-season quarters, says to you that JM won't mature into a QB? Honestly just wondering.

 

[Shakalu M.D.]

I would have traded the house for Bortles...

 

[Phills14]

Talking about drafting another QB in May makes me dry heave because I have no more vomit left after last night.

I want Hoyer to succeed because of all the home town stuff, the likeability and above all I just want a good QB and hope that guy is on our roster. That being said, I don't think he's very good and I don't think he'll be the answer.

I've been on record saying I don't like Manziel but even I think the talk of bust and using game 2 of the preseason as evidence is too early. I didn't like him as a prospect or whatever he's done since the draft but even I have to say he has potential to get better. How much better is up for debate. Personally, I think he could be SF Jeff Garcia good or about as bad as any Browns QB over the past 15 years.

 

[Soda]

The thought of discussing drafting another QB in May makes me dry heave because I have no more vomit left after last night.

I want Hoyer to succeed because of all the home town stuff, the likeability and above all I just want a good QB and hope that guy is on our roster. That being said, I don't think he's very good and I don't think he'll be the answer.

I've been on record saying I don't like Manziel but even I think the talk of bust and using game 2 of the preseason is too early. I didn't like him as a prospect or whatever he's done since the draft but even I have to say he has potential to get better. How much better is up for debate.

Same here... Yet, here I am, defending the kid. It's just far too early for all of this. With exception of b00bie, so many people selling him off haven't been in the Browns section since the last loss...

 

[AZ_]

This, I think, is legitimate. My response to that would be, is all of this insurmountable? Is he that bad to the point where he'll never be good? No chance? How do we know this at this point?

I can understand that your eyes see issues.. Mine absolutely do/did. What about this, after less than 4 NFL pre-season quarters, says to you that JM won't mature into a QB? Honestly just wondering.

I can't think of any QB in modern history who has ever had to overcome so much to be effective.

My concerns have lasted far longer than four pre-season quarters, just as my anti-Weeden rants went far beyond just the start of his NFL career.

Guys who come from such a simplistic offensive scheme predicated on a handful of fail-safe plays used repetitively have a huge hurdle to overcome to succeed in the NFL. When you combine that with a lack of experience at the collegiate level before making the jump to the NFL, and you throw in average physical skills (not the strongest arm, not the fastest legs), you have a recipe for disaster in the NFL.

Will there be an exception to this rule? I'm sure there may be, but the correlate effects of the above qualities has such a high failure rate in the NFL that it's almost undeniable at this point.

The difference with Manziel is, for one reason or another, his hype those who buy so heavily into the intangible traits like "winner" and "playmaker" caused his draft status to rise to vastly overrated levels.

Browns management potentially being among that group. But if I had to guess, I'd say it was Haslam with a great influence here looking to re-market the team and provide a bit of excitement for the franchise.

I won't judge Farmer on it either way, as he did such a good job netting the Bills 2015 first rounder that I'd still consider it a win at this point even if Manziel completely fails.

 

[Soda]

I can't think of any QB in modern history who has ever had to overcome so much to be effective.

My concerns have lasted far longer than four pre-season quarters, just as my anti-Weeden rants went far beyond just the start of his NFL career.

Guys who come from such a simplistic offensive scheme predicated on a handful of fail-safe plays used repetitively have a huge hurdle to overcome to succeed in the NFL. When you combine that with a lack of experience at the collegiate level before making the jump to the NFL, and you throw in average physical skills (not the strongest arm, not the fastest legs), you have a recipe for disaster in the NFL.

Will there be an exception to this rule? I'm sure there may be, but the correlate effects of the above qualities has such a high failure rate in the NFL that it's almost undeniable at this point.

The difference with Manziel is, for one reason or another, his hype those who buy so heavily into the intangible traits like "winner" and "playmaker" caused his draft status to rise to vastly overrated levels.

Browns management potentially being among that group. But if I had to guess, I'd say it was Haslam with a great influence here looking to re-market the team and provide a bit of excitement for the franchise.

I won't judge Farmer on it either way, as he did such a good job netting the Bills 2015 first rounder that I'd still consider it a win at this point even if Manziel completely fails.

First. This is exactly what I asked for and have been waiting to hear from today's round of sellers, so thank you. And I'm well aware of your pre-draft Manziel opinion.

Second. I think you're dead on with the influence of Manziel's "intangibles". JH3 wants the team to adopt a new attitude. In his mind, what could be better than JM..

 

[Mr. Orange]

Yes, I think it's obvious based on my unabashed love of Brandon Weeden that I don't really know what I'm talking about.

Still don't think he got a fair shake here. The greener pastures of Dallas will rejuvenate the career of our former spry gunslinger.

Not saying you aren't a good scout, but at least give the guy a chance to succeed before always coming in with snarky comments. We get it, he isn't a prototypical 6'4" from a pro-style offense. Hell, I would have preferred Bortles too. But you never know who will have success. For every Peyton and Big Ben, there is a JaMarcus and Weeden. Then there are guys like Flutie, Wilson, Brees who defy the odds. Just give the guy a few regular season games. It's preseason, it doesn't matter.

 

[Noonan]

Players are right, Manziel will be a hit

There's no certainty with quarterbacks entering the NFL. It's a virtual roll of the dice whether they'll succeed or fail, the outcome often influenced by circumstances beyond their control.

Still, I'm not shocked that nearly seven of every 10 players participating in our poll believe that Johnny Manziel will be a hit with the Browns. Talent knows talent, and Manziel is talented.

The survey, conducted by ESPN.com's NFL Nation reporters, asked 100-plus players: "Yes or no: Johnny Manziel will be a bust." Of the 82 players who answered, 69 percent said Manziel would succeed in the NFL.

Too often we focus on things that someone can't do rather than illuminate the things that he can do. Does Manziel lack the height that teams desire? Yes. Is he a classic pocket passer? No. Is he attracted to the limelight? Like a moth to a flame.

But Manziel also is a guy who improved each year in college and should do the same in the NFL, in part because he is unwilling to accept failure. He doesn't want to succeed. He needs to succeed. The difference is subtle, yet significant.

I covered Ryan Leaf when he entered the league in 1998 as the No. 2 pick overall. He was brash and outwardly confident, owned a powerful right arm and fit the physical prototype that teams look for. But behind the façade, Leaf lacked the heart to fight through adversity. Failure was acceptable to him. He viewed quitting as a solution, not just an option.

He admitted as much in his second season, when during a confidential conversation he told me he was strongly considering retiring. He had had a disastrous rookie season in which he lost the respect of teammates and the fans, and then lost his starting job. Year 2 wasn't much better. He had shoulder surgery early in the season and, in November, was suspended for four games and docked one week's salary for conduct detrimental to the team. It was then that Leaf told me was leaning toward quitting the game. I was incredulous and filled with questions. Retirement? After only two seasons? Where is your pride? Your fight?

Manziel never would be cool with accepting that someone or something got the better of him. That doesn't guarantee success. Competitive pride is the foundation upon which success is built.

"When people talk about competitiveness, some people evaluate it as wanting to win a game," said George Whitfield, the QB guru who has worked with Manziel. "For Johnny, competitiveness is Me vs. The World, and it's a case of you representing The World, and I'm not losing. ... It doesn't matter if it's Ping Pong in the facility or a game of H-O-R-S-E. He's not going to accept losing. It's about competitiveness pride. No matter how much people look at all the 'stuff' with him, the great predictor of success isn't what you've done but what you've come through -- the fire, the trials, the tribulations, the setbacks."
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Whitfield points out that Manziel was lightly recruited out of high school. TCU coach Gary Patterson, according to Manziel, told him: "Not all dreams end with a Division I scholarship." He claims Texas wanted him to be a defensive back, not a quarterback. Texas A&M didn't play him as a true freshman, which caused Manziel to consider transferring. But that would mean that someone or something got the better of him, so he stayed and won the Heisman Trophy the following season.

What got lost amid the parties, selfies and trolling that ensued was Manziel actually had a better sophomore season than he did while winning the Heisman. In the same number of games, he improved from 3,706 yards to 4,114, from 26 touchdowns to 37, from a completion percentage of 68.0 to 69.9, from an average of 8.5 yards per attempt to 9.6. All that doesn't happen if all you're doing is partying or hanging out.

At this point, Manziel is a ball of clay. He has to be molded into a quarterback who can play from under center, who can effectively and efficiently go through read progressions, who can take the gimmies instead of waiting on the big plays. I believe that he'll learn to do all those things, not only because he has a high football IQ, according to Whitfield, but also because it's imperative to him succeeding.

The other thing that bodes well for Manziel is Ray Farmer, the first-year general manager who has an eye for talent and distaste for nonsense. He's a former NFL player with a firm conviction about doing things the right way. He doesn't believe in whims or fads. The word "shortcut" isn't in his dictionary. You earn what you get, which is fine with Manziel, who already has won the respect of his teammates -- and participants in our poll.

 

[AZ_]

Not saying you aren't a good scout, but at least give the guy a chance to succeed before always coming in with snarky comments. We get it, he isn't a prototypical 6'4" from a pro-style offense. Hell, I would have preferred Bortles too. But you never know who will have success. For every Peyton and Big Ben, there is a JaMarcus and Weeden. Then there are guys like Flutie, Wilson, Brees who defy the odds. Just give the guy a few regular season games. It's preseason, it doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter, indeed.

But the big picture of scouting a guy multiple times over the last few years certainly does. I've got an opinion, and it's unchanged to this point. If/when Manziel gets better, I'll be the first in line to laud his improvement and walk naked onto Art Rooney way wearing a Manziel jersey.

But it doesn't look like much has changed in his game, and I'm simply accepting the reality which I think is inevitable.

It's worth discussing, even if it's not what we want to hear.

Needless to say, I'll be watching some QBs closely in college football this season.

 

[Lee]

I would have traded the house for Bortles...

Instead we got a mousy butthole.

 

[CosmoKramer]

I was expecting posts like Jigo's after Johnny had a couple rough games in the beginning of the season. Despite being a firm believer in his talent even I expected rocky stretches from one of the youngest QBs in the entire league. Massive change in system, new teammates, new coaches, anyone expecting him to come out of the gate dominating was too hopeful.

But parading around this utmost certainty that Johnny is going to bust while saying he's shown no signs of potential future success after two preseason games is outrageous. Couldn't even wait until the regular season to label a player a bust? Typical Cleveland pessimism.