Johnny Manziel: Swan Won't Return His Calls

[Randolphkeys]

I've said for a while that Hoyer is a great stopgap starter and longterm backup QB. The game last night was brutal to watch, but if Gray hadn't fumbled on Hoyer's second completion he could have gotten into a rhythm. But, there was no rhythm, not for either QB. That is on the ESPN media blitz as much as it is Shanahan. Manziel isn't ready. It's as plain as day. Screw the ESPN television ratings, stop fucking up the team trying to make the media happy.

Call Hoyer the starter, play Manziel in a backup role. Let him get some Connor Shaw time against backups and build up his confidence. The pressure has clearly gotten to Johnny a little bit. Ease up and use him like the understudy he was meant to be.

 

[Chris]

I was expecting posts like Jigo's after Johnny had a couple rough games in the beginning of the season. Despite being a firm believer in his talent even I expected rocky stretches from one of the youngest QBs in the entire league. Massive change in system, new teammates, new coaches, anyone expecting him to come out of the gate dominating was too hopeful.

But parading around this utmost certainty that Johnny is going to bust while saying he's shown no signs of potential future success after two preseason games is outrageous. Couldn't even wait until the regular season to label a player a bust? Typical Cleveland pessimism.

It's not pessimism, it's people having an agenda. Majority hated Manziel before he got picked, it went on for a while then quieted. The second he struggles it was always going to turn into an inferno.

 

[SixPACK]

I've said for a while that Hoyer is a great stopgap starter and longterm backup QB. The game last night was brutal to watch, but if Gray hadn't fumbled on Hoyer's second completion he could have gotten into a rhythm. But, there was no rhythm, not for either QB. That is on the ESPN media blitz as much as it is Shanahan. Manziel isn't ready. It's as plain as day. Screw the ESPN television ratings, stop fucking up the team trying to make the media happy.

Call Hoyer the starter, play Manziel in a backup role. Let him get some Connor Shaw time against backups and build up his confidence. The pressure has clearly gotten to Johnny a little bit. Ease up and use him like the understudy he was meant to be.

 

[Tornicade]

He looked as ready as Hoyer did. Manziel is the future and as soon as he has the plays down he should be starting.


Wshington ahs their own mobile set of quarterbacs they practice against every day. Haslam had a blitz package set up just for Manziel. Manziel has to see those defenses to get better.

Hoyers had 4 series to put a pass in front of a receiver as did manziel. neither one of them did a good job but this type of matchup is where Hoyer is supposed to show his value. He didnt. Maybe he will next week who knows. I dont think HOyer has earned this starting spot at this point .

 

[bob2the2nd]

He looked as ready as Hoyer did. Manziel is the future and as soon as he has the plays down he should be starting.


Wshington ahs their own mobile set of quarterbacs they practice against every day. Haslam had a blitz package set up just for Manziel. Manziel has to see those defenses to get better.

Hoyers had 4 series to put a pass in front of a receiver as did manziel. neither one of them did a good job but this type of matchup is where Hoyer is supposed to show his value. He didnt. Maybe he will next week who knows. I dont think HOyer has earned this starting spot at this point .

no manziel didnt look at all as ready as hoyer. you forget manziel doesnt know the playbook, which he has admitted. so the limited number of plays he had to choose from he was absolutely ineffective. was hoyer any better, no. but at least he knows the damn offense.

once again there is no reason to start manziel, if you rush him and he sucks (and its pretty clear he will), its going to absolutely destroy him. at least with hoyer you have a QB that can go out there play 85% of the offensive snaps, be mediocre and slow get manziel playing time. I dont understand why people dont see this as a positive.

 

[AZ_]

Wshington ahs their own mobile set of quarterbacs they practice against every day. Haslam had a blitz package set up just for Manziel. Manziel has to see those defenses to get better.

:chuckles:

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

Yeah, that was not a well constructed thought.

Haslett is not going to magically shut down Johnny because of blitzes or the QBs they have. Johnny has only himself to blame.

 

[Norm]

Just keep JFF as the 2nd stringer right now. It's too obvious the WRs have no comfort level with QBs as both Hoyer and Manziel are getting split 1st team reps. Give Hoyer the starting nod and let JFF learn how to read defenses, he got ate up last night by the Redskins D. I don't think he's gonna have better luck the 1st 3 weeks of season with the Defenses we're gonna see, Stoolers, Ryan's mystery D, and the Ratbirds. Give Hoyer the starting nod and let JFF learn behind him. If Hoyer stinks it up, Mini-Shanny gets 5 weeks after the last pre-season game to get some packages ready for JFF to start after the bye.

 

[CosmoKramer]

It's not pessimism, it's people having an agenda. Majority hated Manziel before he got picked, it went on for a while then quieted. The second he struggles it was always going to turn into an inferno.

Yeah, even after the draft I didn't believe a single one of the many 'I didn't like Manziel, but now that he's a Brown I'll root for him' posts that flooded this thread. First time facing adversity and now everyone comes out to pat themselves on the back for not falling for the hype. Kid looks bad in a fucking exhibition game and he's now a guaranteed bust... Wow.

 

[Chris]

Yeah, even after the draft I didn't believe a single one of the many 'I didn't like Manziel, but now that he's a Brown I'll root for him' posts that flooded this thread. First time facing adversity and now everyone comes out to pat themselves on the back for not falling for the hype. Kid looks bad in a fucking exhibition game and he's now a guaranteed bust... Wow.

Never believed any of that, for a second.

I know I'll rile people up and that is not my intention, I'm just saying I didn't believe it. I absolutely do believe, however, that if this were another rookie QB and he was struggling like Manziel in a preseason game, it'd be damage control. "He'll be fine" "It's just preseason!" "You guys are freaking over a preseason game? O. M. G!" etc etc.

 

[Spectre]

Both of our QBs looked like dogshit but if I had to choose today, I'm still starting Hoyer.

Hoyer was in no way this bad last year. Something is off this year but he didn't just become worthless overnight... it's more than likely a confidence issue coming of his ACL or a timing issue. Both of those things correct themselves over time.

Manziel on the other hand isn't ready to be on an NFL field. He's bailing after his first read way too quickly, he still believes he can make plays with his legs like he did in college and he's throwing off balance like a clown. He needs a LOT of work.

If we start Hoyer, our worst case scenario is that he is still rusty, we go 0-3 against a tough schedule, and we get to debate benching him for Manziel at the bye week with a much softer schedule ahead. Meanwhile, Manziel gets more time to learn the playbook and get acclimated to NFL speed in practice.

If we start Manziel, there's a legitimate chance he gets murdered by the Steelers/Ravens/Saints defenses but once you start him, there's no sitting him for the rest of the season even if he continues to struggle.

Neither of these guys have shown a damn thing thus far but if I had to pick, I'll go with the one far less likely to fall flat on his face and then re-evaluate at the bye.

 

[Randolphkeys]

There's a difference between not looking ready to start in the NFL at quarterback and not showing the potential to eventually be a starting quarterback. I certainly see the potential for growth in Manziel based on his arm strength and improvement... but that doesn't mean you throw somebody with potential into a situation they aren't ready to take on.

It's like you find some kid who nailed his multiplication tables in second grade and say, "This kid has got it! Drop him into AP trigonometry!!"

No, don't Tim Couch the guy. You risk burning him out.

You give Johnny the tools to be a great student in the proximal zone of his development.

 

[Tornicade]

Yeah, that was not a well constructed thought.

Haslett is not going to magically shut down Johnny because of blitzes or the QBs they have. Johnny has only himself to blame.

you guys never seen a rookie quarterback get schemed against before?

I dont see what value there is in starting Hoyer. how many more wins is he really worth?

Im all for sitting a young qb behind a veteran proven nfl starter. Hoyer doesnt exactly fit the bill.

how many more plays is hoyer proficiently running than Manziel is?

Washingtons defensive pressure had a big impact on the browns offense. thats an area where the veteran is supposed to stand out over the rookie.

Johnny said he was hesitant. which isnt unusual for a young quarterback. what was Hoyers excuse?

 

[The Oi]

I was expecting posts like Jigo's after Johnny had a couple rough games in the beginning of the season. Despite being a firm believer in his talent even I expected rocky stretches from one of the youngest QBs in the entire league. Massive change in system, new teammates, new coaches, anyone expecting him to come out of the gate dominating was too hopeful.

But parading around this utmost certainty that Johnny is going to bust while saying he's shown no signs of potential future success after two preseason games is outrageous. Couldn't even wait until the regular season to label a player a bust? Typical Cleveland pessimism.

You call it pessimism. I call it objectivity.

I'll be right.

And for the record...I couldn't give less of a shit that it's Manziel. The hype has no impact on me. Where he was picked does, but the hype is a non-issue for me.

We've seen this a million times already with shitty QB's and when they've sucked, some of us have said they sucked initially. Then more piled on a few games later. Then everyone knew. Then there was 3-4 guys who claimed they never got a shot. Then they ended up on other teams and still sucked and people either quieted down or rooted against them.

It's going to happen with Manziel for reasons stated several times in this thread over the last couple pages. If you can't see it coming now, you will after Hoyer gets hurt and Johnny starts.

 

[CosmoKramer]

You call it pessimism. I call it objectivity.

I'll be right.

Like you were about LeBron?