Johnny Manziel: Swan Won't Return His Calls

[AZ_]

so for clarification your saying peyton manning did not have delay of game penalties related in his first preseason?

Obviously I'm saying that you have absolutely no idea if Peyton Manning "had a lot of delay of game penalties."

Simply making things up to create this narrative is one thing, but we can all do without the strawman above on top of it. Enough already...

lets put an arbitrary number ratng on the playbook and calling plays in the huddles.

Let's not.

Know why? Because that's retarded.

 

[Mr. Orange]

What is all this shit about Manziel not knowing the playbook and not being able to call a play? From everything Pettine says they are happy with his progress. Where is this coming from?

 

[AZ_]

What is all this shit about Manziel not knowing the playbook and not being able to call a play? From everything Pettine says they are happy with his progress. Where is this coming from?

Manziel, mostly.

He's talked quite a bit about his biggest adjustment being the playbook.

 

[Tornicade]

What is all this shit about Manziel not knowing the playbook and not being able to call a play? From everything Pettine says they are happy with his progress. Where is this coming from?

Obviously I'm saying that you have absolutely no idea if Peyton Manning "had a lot of delay of game penalties."

Simply making things up to create this narrative is one thing, but we can all do without the strawman above on top of it. Enough already...



Let's not.

Know why? Because that's retarded.

so Az why did peyton have to study the playbook after every game of his rookie season?

my argument is that villifying or putting manziel down for going through things rookie quarterbacks go through is retarded

You can watch the tape all you want, but if you refuse to be the least bit objective then it's not going to matter.

"Go back and watch Peyton Manning his first preseason."

Like you've committed the 1998 pre-season to memory, get out of here with this nonsense.

It took manning about 12 games to start showing what he could be on a consistent basis. Thats after a well documented ritual of studying the playbook after every game for hours.

Thats 12 games into the season and Manning the rookie was still trying to get cmfortable with the playbook. A guy from a football family and a student of the game.

for every ryan leaf or tim couch getting ruined going out on the field. you can point to a Brian griese etc quarterbacks who were groomed to fail

peyton threw 28 picks his rookie year. thats almost 2 a game. The colts traded away Jim Harbough to make room for him. Troy aikman almost lost his starting job to Steve Walsh

Walsh could read defenses better. He went through his 2nd and third read options like the wind. was he better quarterback.. not by a long shot.

 

[AZ_]

Literally everything in your post is pure assumption.

 

[Mr. Orange]

Manziel, mostly.

He's talked quite a bit about his biggest adjustment being the playbook.

Sure, but that is the case for any rookie. Remember Cam's plays at Auburn? Play 1. Play 2. Play 3. He has turned out alright.

 

[AZ_]

Sure, but that is the case for any rookie. Remember Cam's plays at Auburn? Play 1. Play 2. Play 3. He has turned out alright.

Which is great, but not the whole problem with Manziel.

If you'll take a look at a guy like Cam Newton, with his massive build and incredibly strong arm, you'll notice a slight difference.

Or take a look at a guy like Peyton Manning, since we seem to be comparing Manziel to QBs who are wildly more talented. Despite his fabricated "struggles with the playbook" that Torn continually keeps referring to after pulling it from his ass, Manning was a guy who had the mechanics and arm strength associated with a once-in-a-generation type QB prospect.

Manziel's problems aren't solely with the playbook, and nobody has ever alluded that they are. It's all part of the collection of issues which have been discussed ad nauseum here. But yes, coming from a juvenile offense and obviously struggling to adjust to the NFL playbook is part of that.

 

[caf]

Come on boobie... When you think of a 6'5'' prototypical pocket passer, you don't immediately think of Johnny Manziel?

 

[AZ_]

If you remember Peyton Manning, he struggled with his moxie until at least Week 9.

 

[Mr. Orange]

Which is great, but not the whole problem with Manziel.

If you'll take a look at a guy like Cam Newton, with his massive build and incredibly strong arm, you'll notice a slight difference.

Or take a look at a guy like Peyton Manning, since we seem to be comparing Manziel to QBs who are wildly more talented. Despite his fabricated "struggles with the playbook" that Torn continually keeps referring to after pulling it from his ass, Manning was a guy who had the mechanics and arm strength associated with a once-in-a-generation type QB prospect.

Manziel's problems aren't solely with the playbook, and nobody has ever alluded that they are. It's all part of the collection of issues which have been discussed ad nauseum here. But yes, coming from a juvenile offense and obviously struggling to adjust to the NFL playbook is part of that.

Ok fine. But in the short preseason I have seen some nice throws and some good arm strength. Maybe not elite but good. If Manziel can be a Russell Wilson type we should all be very pleased.

 

[Soda]

Ok fine. But in the short preseason I have seen some nice throws and some good arm strength. Maybe not elite but good. If Manziel can be a Russell Wilson type we should all be very pleased.

He's got a long way to go.. Russell Wilson came into camp in his rookie year and beat out a recently signed free agent (Flynn). Johnny is already behind that curve, albeit a tough one to keep up with. If he were to play and manage the ball like Wilson, the Browns can see some significant improvement. Gotta keep the defense off the field for more than 4 plays.

 

[AZ_]

Ok fine. But in the short preseason I have seen some nice throws and some good arm strength. Maybe not elite but good. If Manziel can be a Russell Wilson type we should all be very pleased.

You've seen more than me, I guess. Nothing really down the field with a great deal of accuracy, certainly struggling to complete short passes.

Russell Wilson is a steady presence, strong mechanics and a field manager who can break down a defense with his eyes. I don't see any of that from Manziel. He's always going to be the erratic guy who relies on his skills when the play breaks down.

I don't think that will ever be successful at this level, though maybe he'll have a game or two here or there where he'll flash it. Consistency is the key, and I don't trust him to ever find it.

 

[Phills14]

Ok fine. But in the short preseason I have seen some nice throws and some good arm strength. Maybe not elite but good. If Manziel can be a Russell Wilson type we should all be very pleased.

Outside of their height, hand size and arguable arm strength there are almost no similarities between Wilson and Manziel.

Wilson is a mature leader who played 4 years of structured pro-style college football. He plays a style of game that is very controlled. He lives within a pre planed box and very rarely varies from it.

Manziel on the other hand only had 2 years of playing experience, has shown incredible lapse in judgement and immaturity during the off season and plays completely outside of the box. He prefers the unscripted plays and puts himself in dangerous situations.

They both have a hard time seeing over the lines and therefore have to roll out and moved around inside of the pocket in order to deliver the ball.

 

[Mr. Orange]

Outside of their height, hand size and arguable arm strength there are almost no similarities between Wilson and Manziel.

Wilson is a mature leader who played 4 years of structured pro-style college football. He plays a style of game that is very controlled. He lives within a pre planed box and very rarely varies from it.

Manziel on the other hand only had 2 years of playing experience, has shown incredible lapse in judgement and immaturity during the off season and plays completely outside of the box. He prefers the unscripted plays and puts himself in dangerous situations.

They both have a hard time seeing over the lines and therefore have to roll out and moved around inside of the pocket in order to deliver the ball.

Fair enough. But you did quote 3 similarities... and you forgot that they are both intelligent, though Manziel had the higher wonderlic. He is the easy comp due to size and arm strength, and maybe some moxie. Yes, Johnny is 2 years behind Wilson in terms of experience. The Browns likely realize this and are going to be patient. Look for growth over the season.

I have seen some decent throws. Enough to make me think he has a chance to succeed, albeit longer odds than a guy like Blake.

 

[Soda]

I have seen some decent throws. Enough to make me think he has a chance to succeed, albeit longer odds than a guy like Blake.

I agree. I'm not sure where this weak arm talk is coming from.. I've seen a strong arm on Johnny.. That surprised me the most. Accuracy/timing needs work, but is not insurmountable. Also, Johnny needs to learn how to throw when balanced more often. Too often Johnny finds himself throwing off-balance thus far; I think this makes people look and think that Johnny doesn't have a good arm/good accuracy. His feet need to settle before I say he can't throw accurately or strongly.