Johnny Manziel: Swan Won't Return His Calls

[AZ_]

I agree. I'm not sure where this weak arm talk is coming from.. I've seen a strong arm on Johnny.. That surprised me the most. Accuracy/timing needs work, but is not insurmountable. Also, Johnny needs to learn how to throw when balanced more often. Too often Johnny finds himself throwing off-balance thus far; I think this makes people look and think that Johnny doesn't have a good arm/good accuracy. His feet need to settle before I say he can't throw accurately or strongly.

His arm is passable, but my whole argument has been that it's not enough to overcome his poor mechanics when he so often breaks down and throws it up for grabs.

 

[Mr. Orange]

His arm is passable, but my whole argument has been that it's not enough to overcome his poor mechanics when he so often breaks down and throws it up for grabs.

I will agree with you on this. I am hoping coaching fixes this.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Outside of their height, hand size and arguable arm strength there are almost no similarities between Wilson and Manziel.

Wilson is a mature leader who played 4 years of structured pro-style college football. He plays a style of game that is very controlled. He lives within a pre planed box and very rarely varies from it.

Manziel on the other hand only had 2 years of playing experience, has shown incredible lapse in judgement and immaturity during the off season and plays completely outside of the box. He prefers the unscripted plays and puts himself in dangerous situations.
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You're right -- they're not all that similar, and I'd rather have Wilson at this point. On the other hand, JFF is more mobile and a better runner than Wilson, so I'd give him the edge in physical tools. But Wilson obviously has big advantages in those other areas.

Manziel is just so damn young/inexperienced. Luck and RGIII had 3 years of playing college ball, Kaepernick and Wilson had 4, and JFF only 2. That alone suggests he should be quite a bit behind those guys, and makes it tougher to project where he'll end up. Are the weaknesses we see things that will be cured by additional coaching and experience, or are they something that isn't really going to change?

I'm not sure it is really possible to even know that at this point.

I do cut him a bit of slack on his playing style because it maximized his success at the college level. While that isn't directly transferable to the pros, it does suggests that he adopted that style because it worked, not because he was unable to play differently. And I think it's going to take some time to work with him to see how he can improve.

From everything I've heard, he has improved significantly from the start of training camp, which at least means we shouldn't consign him to the scrap heap quite yet. It's when you stop seeing improvement over time that there is really a problem.

 

[Phills14]

Fair enough. But you did quote 3 similarities... and you forgot that they are both intelligent, though Manziel had the higher wonderlic. He is the easy comp due to size and arm strength, and maybe some moxie. Yes, Johnny is 2 years behind Wilson in terms of experience. The Browns likely realize this and are going to be patient. Look for growth over the season.

I have seen some decent throws. Enough to make me think he has a chance to succeed, albeit longer odds than a guy like Blake.

They do come off as intelligent but wonderlic scores are horrible predictors to NFL success.

Physically they are similar with Wilson having more muscle and mass to him. Outside of the physical aspects, they couldn't be further apart in terms of their style of play. That was my point.

 

[polska2211]

His arm is passable, but my whole argument has been that it's not enough to overcome his poor mechanics when he so often breaks down and throws it up for grabs.

This is still citing his college play, and this is not something that he has done in any of the preseason games or in practice, so I think it's fair to throw out the "he only throws up balls for grabs to Mike Evans" argument out until we see it in an NFL game.

 

[Mr. Orange]

They do come off as intelligent but wonderlic scores are horrible predictors to NFL success.

Physically they are similar with Wilson having more muscle and mass to him. Outside of the physical aspects, they couldn't be further apart in terms of their style of play. That was my point.

I'm sorry but that is just wrong. They are both mobile quarterbacks. They could be much further apart, for example if one of them was a prototypical pocket passer.

 

[AZ_]

This is still citing his college play, and this is not something that he has done in any of the preseason games or in practice, so I think it's fair to throw out the "he only throws up balls for grabs to Mike Evans" argument out until we see it in an NFL game.

It's really not, we've seen plenty of breakdowns so far in his limited snaps as well. Just can't control his feet when under pressure and trying to stay poised.

Is it fixable? Time will tell.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

I'm sorry but that is just wrong. They are both mobile quarterbacks. They could be much further apart, for example if one of them was a prototypical pocket passer.

Russell Wilson was radically different in College. At one point, Wilson went like 15 games without an INT. His pocket passing was one of his strengths at NCState.

Then when he went to Wisconsin, he became the more mobile, roll out type QB.

Manziel never really played anything like Wilson. That's not to say that he couldn't one day do the same thing, as Manziel has NEVER played a pro style offense, but right now his instincts are one read and get the hell out of the pocket.

 

[AZ_]

Wilson is basically a traditional pocket passer who has the ability to scramble as well.

It's what makes him so good. He's just not comparable to Manziel at this point, they're not very similar at all outside of build.

 

[The Oi]

Poor man's Jeff Garcia is Manziel's best comparison IMO.

It's the same game, except Garcia was less prone to awful plays. Garcia had 2-3 good years when Owens was there and then he fell off the map.

Without Gordon, Manziel has no TO or Mike Evans to throw too. He's going to be bad when he does play, but at least let him be bad with actual weapons to throw to.

 

[AZ_]

Poor man's Jeff Garcia is Manziel's best comparison IMO.

It really is the only comparison, IMO.

 

[Phills14]

I'm sorry but that is just wrong. They are both mobile quarterbacks. They could be much further apart, for example if one of them was a prototypical pocket passer.

I don't believe so at all. Yes both are mobile. Wilson uses his mobility when needed. Manziel uses his mobility as standard operating procedure. Hence their playing styles are completely different.

 

[Mr. Orange]

I don't believe so at all. Yes both are mobile. Wilson uses his mobility when needed. Manziel uses his mobility as standard operating procedure. Hence their playing styles are completely different.

Ok fine. I still think Wilson is the model for what Manziel should become.

 

[AZ_]

Ok fine. I still think Wilson is the model for what Manziel should become.

I'd imagine that's the model many fans hopelessly believe he will become.

Wilson is part of the reason he is as popular as he is. Because a little QB can do it!

 

[Mr. Orange]

I'd imagine that's the model many fans hopelessly believe he will become.

Wilson is part of the reason he is as popular as he is. Because a little QB can do it!

Is this part really necessary? Do you have to do this every time?