A closer look at Harrison Barnes

[Tornicade]

Some people seem to disagree with that assesment

We fans now get disappointed if players don't immediately explode on the scene and then label them as disappointing. Many players still do need a few more years to develop.
I don't know what Barnes will ultimately become but there is a lot of talent there and it's way too soon to write him off. He would be much better off staying at UNC and continuing his growth and development.

The WFNY guy called Barnes "a steal." If he meant steal money from a team, yeah. Harrison Barnes has probably been the least impressive draft prospect I've seen so far. If you took the name off the back of the jersey you'd be hard pressed to see anything that screams "first round pick."

He needs a lot of work and right now a good chunk of it is probably mental.

I can't write off a player 2/3 of the way through his freshman season. He's been a disappointment so far but we do live in an age of overhype where everyone is expected to dominate immediately.
Barnes does have work to do on his game and we may see something a little closer to the player he was expected to be with a couple of more years of development. He needs to stay at UNC and shouldn't even consider entering the draft.

Barnes for a perimeter player doesn't seem to me to have much of a handle and he's not that great at creating in iso situations.

he's turned it around shooting wise and he's a good defender with good hops. We already have one prospect in Eyenga with these kind of traits. Not sure I want to add another.

He'll be Dorell Wright at best. At worst...he'll be a bust.

He'll be a bust.

Really think you're wrong on this one.

Barnes has the same exact mannerisms as Kwame Brown..... He's very skitish out there as well...

What...
the hell are you...
talking...
about...
And why do you end eveyrything with...

Sounds like Barnes would be a really good pick for us then...probably won't be worthy of a top four pick unless he really picks it up....but an athletic 2/3 swingman who can play good defense? Sign me up...

Terrence Jones is interesting too...

Thanks for the mix, first one I've seen showing NCAA highlights.

He seems to have a pretty impressive pullup jumper off the dribble, which is a skill that not a lot of college kids have. Those are definitely "NBA" shots that he is making, especially if he can come out and play the two guard.

And he's a good defender? I'm on board. Maybe if there's nothing good where we are drafting we can trade down.

Barnes lacks quickness with his movements and explosiveness off the floor. He's not a dead-eye shot and frankly doesn't look anything like a top-10 worthy pick.

There is no way Barnes is a top 4 pick based on what he has done so far this year.

Would anyone consider Barnes a lottery pick even in this weak draft based on what he has done this season alone? I doubt it: he's still highly regarded from what people thought of him coming into his freshman year. He's another guy like Jones who would seriously benefit from another year of grooming to really show that he can dominate less competition

no i just know everything
the lockout isnt going to change any players decision in the draft
Harrison Barnes said at least 20 times last year he was one and done
he has already told Roy Williams he's gone after this year
FACT

Or he can come out this year, even having underperformed and get drafted around the 4-8 range. Possibly even higher depending on how he plays in the tournament. Money talks. If he were to come out next year, there's no way he get selected higher that 6-10. The draft is too deep.

If I were a betting man, I would never bet on a surefire lottery pick staying in school. It rarely happens, even though there are a handful of kids every year in the lottery who talk about academics and how much they love the school and want to come back and win and like to make fans of the school think they may come back, they generally end up leaving once they see that they're going to get paid millions of dollars over the next few years, guaranteed.

I think Barnes is going to be a top 10 pick and I would be shocked if he didn't declare once he hears that from an agent.

Barnes is starting to grow on me. For a SF in college he actually rebounds the ball pretty well. 5.7 rpg in only 27 mpg is pretty good for a SF.

Plays good D too.

I'd take him.

Barnes game came to life when the Heels got a real point guard. I like him because he moves well without the ball. He can create on his own, but he is more effective off the ball.

Barnes's last 4 games:
9-23
6-17
4-14
7-20

For a guy who supposedly has turned the corner, he sure seems to need a lot of shots to score points. Shooting Guard maybe the easiest position to fill in the NBA and we already have one NBA prospect at SG spot who is building a rep around defensive and athleticism. I just don't see how everyone is sure that this guy is a top 10 pick guaranteed: to me it's a lot like Perry Jones in a way but with less excuses. In the college game now even if you're a freshman you should be able to produce big numbers if you really are worth a lottery pick. At least Jone's fan can point out that he tends to get isolated on offense but Barnes gets to put up plenty of shots. Outside of a few games, he needs every single one of those shots to put up a good scoring game.

I think attitude is going to be high up on the list of things that the Cavs are looking for in the draft.

If Im going to draft a wing in the top 10 he should either be a.) an off the charts shooter like a Reggie Miller, Ray Allen, etc.. or b.) a top level athlete who has the potential to be scorer in the league that can get his.

Of course there will be exception and caveats but I don't see either with Barnes. What makes him a better prospect than Jordan Hamilton or even Alec Burks? His pedigree coming out of HS?

What is Harrison Barnes right now? He's a good but not great athlete who struggles to create his own shot, but isn't a great shooter and essentially doesnt do anything particularly well. Does he have some room to get better? Sure, but what is the track record of guys like that in the league? They become Jarvis Hayes or at best Marvin Williams.

When it comes down to it you're still taking in the top 10 based on his high school pedigree.

I'm not high on Barnes whatsoever... Rarely, if ever, do you see a guy who can't dominate on the college level come in and be a high level player in the NBA... Maybe a serviceable player, but certainly not one that comes in and can be a cornerstone player.... Obviously Marvin Williams is the comparison...

You see guys all the time that have a game that is more conducive for NBA basketball as opposed to college, such as Vince Carter, Russell Westbrook, Gilbert Arenas, Carlos Boozer etc.. But at the very least they showed moments in college where they could be big time stars and in some of those cases it lead to the player being drafted in the lottery and in others they slipped to the later part of the 1st or out of the 1s all together....
As for Barnes, I just haven't seen anything yet that would suggest he's someone that you would want to build your squad around moving forward..

His ball handling and lateral quickness with the ball leaves something to be desired. In a league in which wings, especially small forwards, has steadily become more focused on the ability to take the opposing defender off the dribble, Barnes comes up short. His defense and spot up shooting, at the very least, are fundamentally sound - and available to continued refinement. I would consider his defense very strong - his length is a strong suit. It seems that he would benefit from playing with a quality PG who is able to penetrate and set up the wings off the ball (but then again, who wouldn't). He's well coached and comes across as teachable and mature. I don't think this is something to overlook in the Cavs' scouting of players.

I don't doubt he can be a fine rotation player, and starter in time - but are the Cavs in the position to 'settle' on that in this process of rebuilding? He happens to play at a position of need and is a viable candidate for the Clippers lottery selection.

On a side note, Kendall Marshall is going to be a damn good player (if he isn't already)

Lacks top end athleticism and explosiveness. First step is average even for the college level. Not very good off the bounce and therefore doesnt get to the line. Average shooter at best but that can improve. Good defensively though.

I look at the attributes of the top scoring SFs like Durant, James, Anthony Pierce, Gay, Granger, etc in the NBA and I just dont see it with Barnes or the upside.

If you draft him in the late teens or early 20s and you'll probably be satisfied. Top 8 and you'll be disappointed.

It's now 5 out of the last 6 games where he hasn't shot 50% from the field. Take away the hype he got coming out of high school and there is is no way people would be talking about him as a lottery pick based on what he has done in college. He looks to be projecting as a 3&D guy in the NBA right now so that would place him at best as a mid first-rounder IMO.

This is another guy that has major flaws in his game that is way too high of a risk given his ceiling. Not interested.

I'm equally as interested in him as I am Perry Jones, and Perry Jones is a guaranteed bust.

Barnes is far from a finished product. Seems there's some disappointment because he hasn't come in and dominated from the start despite the hype coming out of HS. Not everyone does. He's only 18 now. He might be a better player with a more developed game by the time he's 22 or 23.
Evan Turner is 22 and played 3 years of college ball.

Right now I don't see him as a star in the NBA but as a solid player who is pretty good in all areas but not dominant in any. I don't take him top 4 but if he's there's with the Clippers pick at #8 or so I can't say I'd be overly upset if the Cavs took him. There have been comments about Barnes from scouts and personnel people recently that have been much more complimentary than the ones in this thread.
We better be prepared to be patient and be willing to let whoever is drafted grow and develop. I don't see any player in this draft who's going to come right in and have an immediate huge impact.

Either would be solid selections with our 2nd lottery pick. I think Jones is more than likely going to be there while Barnes played well enough at the end of the year to get him some top 5 consideration which means he will probably be gone by the 8th or so pick.

I like a lot of what Barnes brings to the table, above average defender, high bball IQ, good intensity, willingness to take a team on his back. His athletic ability scares me though. I think that is what will keep him from being an allstar at the next level. I see him being a very solid player who any team would want but he's not going to be the superstar that propels a team into the playoffs. I see him comparring well to a Luol Deng. Still a very solid pick at #8 and we would be extremely lucky if he's there.

Terrance Jones prior to March I thought was a fall back option to the 1st pick. However; his play in the SEC tournament and thus far in the NCAAs has been disappointing. He's been invisible for most of the action and that's too bad. You want to see a guy like him take the lead but he's not much of a factor and his teammate Brandon Knight is taking the spot light. Terrance Jones is a Rashard Lewis type, maybe more athletic. I still think he'll be a good pick at #8 but I don't see him going any earlier than that now.

From a scouting perspective, I think a lot of people tend to focus on the wrong things.

Is 7/19 impressive? Not overly but the one minute stretch, with 5 minutes left, where Barnes single handedly got them over the hump (and gave them a chance to win) indicates he has that top gear. He just needs to figure out how to get to it a little more often.

He had a steal, a three, a rebound, layup (and 1) and jumper (and 1 missed). In a minute, he scored 8 points and finally broke through the 2 possession barrier UK had held for almost the entire second half.

While UNC eventually lost and Barnes missed some shots down the stretch, the ability to have a one minute burst is certainly something you should not ignore. Scouts measure heavily on pro potential, they don't measure strictly on college production and certainly not on a game to game basis.

In his last 15 games, Barnes averaged 19.1 points, 6.3 rebounds and shot 44% from the floor. While the 44% from the floor is a bit lower than you'd like, it's not alarmingly low (especially if you get him to shave a few threes off his shot selection). It also crept up a bit from the 40.7% in the first half of the season, which certainly isn't a negative.

Do I think Barnes is a perfect prospect? Well, no but people just seem to flat out ignore his performance over the second half of the year. Given his prototypical size (6'8'', 210 lbs), I would have to roll the dice on him over many of the other players who might be more of a finished product at this point. Stars win in the NBA. Rotational players don't. When in doubt, you always gamble on the star (or the guy who could become a star) IMO.

There's clearly some questions the FO would need to answer (or at least be comfortable with) but I don't think there's the one huge red flag that just can't be ignored. Some people question his athleticism but he certainly didn't look pedestrian against a very athletic UK front line. I'm sure his individual workouts will clear up much of the debate on his measurables.

Agreed. He will be a Elliot level player or a slightly better version of Battier. Not a bad player by any means, but I would rather swing fro the fences with Drummond if Beal and MKG are gone. ( i really, really want MKG though)

Absolutely fantastic way of looking at it. The Cavs, with the exception of LeBron James and (if his passing improves) Kyrie Irving are the only true multi-faceted star players the Cavs have had in about the last 10 years. The team has been loaded with a bunch of role players and one trick ponies from the time LeBron came to town until the end of Kyrie's first season.

The third and fourth best players they've had since LeBron joined on are probably Mo Williams and Antawn Jamison. Jamison was somewhat versatile back in the day in that he was a good rebounder, but now he's reduced to being a perimeter chucker. Mo is purely a shooter.

If you're going to draft in the top 5 for what may be the last time in a while...you've got to get multi-facted players there. MKG and Anthony Davis are the ultimate multi-faceted prospects. Barnes is strictly a shooter at this point and I don't see him developing much more except to improve his shot.

I just have this awful feeling that Barnes is going to be the pick. It's going to set the franchise back 2-3 years if they do it...

I like barnes ok, I just would rather have him if we pick 6, not at 4. At 4 that means we passed up MKG, Beal or Drummond. Personally I rather have those 3.

For the record, I do NOT want them to draft Barnes. But that being said, I do not think he'll be a bad basketball player. You just have to accept Barnes for who he is. If you expect multiple all-star appearances, then you're going to hate him. He's not that kind of player. But if you at least want a player that will be solid, then you'll appreciate him for that. I understand that doesn't exactly excite anyone, but you can do a lot worse and gamble on a prospect with huge upside like Drummond, have him bust, and be really screwed.

I do hope we look elsewhere, because I think we'd all like to have an all-star, but that's harder to do than you think. We just need whomever we pick to not be completely useless.

If Beal, and MKG aren't available, Barnes might be the best bet for this team. I personally see more red flags in Robinson than I do Barnes. I love Drummond's upside, but he is a huge risk. It's not an easy decision to make.

I posted this in the 2012 draft thread but I'm going to spam it here too....

I think Barnes gets an unfair bad rap. He's still not my pick of choice, but I wouldn't be upset with him. He's an above average athlete IMO, he just doesn't utilize his athleticism that much. When he does, he shows the ability to hang in the air, square up his shoulders, and still knock down the shot on the way down - kinda reminds me of LeBron (his solid strength/frame certainly help him here, too). His release is really quick, and his shooting mechanics make hit shot difficult to block; he shoots it from pretty high up and back. As a third option I could imagine him being a ~%38+ three point shooter. He's also great at using shot fakes on the perimeter. His dribbling will need to improve if he wants to be an elite slasher as opposed to a straight-line slasher. His pullup jumper is lightning quick too, which is a deadly combo with his aforementioned shooting form. He could have a pretty nasty two dribble step-back jumper.

I just don't like the Black Falcon thing :thumbdown

You know the messed up part about all of this is that we could have had Barnes last year if the idiot would have entered the draft. At 4 in last years draft I would have been happy with him, and then with 4 in this years draft we would have been free to draft TRob which would have made me a happy camper. However if we draft TRob this year it will do nothing but piss most of us off. Barnes really screwed us with his decision imo.

 

[MoFlo]

Some people seem to disagree with that assesment

Was all that really necessary?

 

[Mdog1]

Based off what he is saying, we would have no Tristan Thompson. Would have drafted Irving at 1 and Barnes at 4, although I doubt he would have lasted to 4 last year.

But I was thinking the same thing mdog. Irving, Barnes, and Robinson would be nice, but I think Thompson has a bright future so we will be just fine.

Barnes entering the draft either nabs us Kanter or Barnes. Williams was set at #2, and Utah might stil have taken Kanter. We'll never know.

 

[The Oi]

Was all that really necessary?

I found it interesting. Some of those quotes were pretty old.

 

[Kouki]

Ok lets say I concede the Deng comparisons. For one I don't think Barnes will ever be nearly as good a rebounder. And Deng just now became an all star(reserve) after 8yrs in the league.

Do you really want that with the #4 pick ?

No, but now you are going straw man on me. You commented about defense. I responded about defense.

 

[KyrieFan]

I think Barnes has more potential as an NBA scorer than a lot of people think. He may not be that great off the dribble, but he can fill it up in multiple ways BESIDES just spot-up shooting.

If Beal and Gilchrist are off the board and Andre Drummond's cell-phone goes off during his interview and Christ Grant hears a loud teletubby ringtone while Drummond shakes his head to the jingle, I would draft Barnes over Jeremy Lamb.

I watched a lot of North Carolina's games this year. Barnes couldn't score worth a crap unless he caught the ball from the perimeter and immediately shot it. And since unc had two all american post players the defense had to double down there, leaving him wide open. He won't have that luxury here. We are going to regret taking this guy. I saw him struggle badly to get by some scrubs from Ohio university. Not tOSU, but Ohio. Whoever of you guys are comparing him to luol deng are crazy! Barnes was an average defender at best in school.

Did you all read his article about branding himself? No chance he stays in this city any longer than he has to. Much rather take a chance on Drummond.

 

[The Oi]

The second Barnes gets drafted, he should send Luol Deng and Paul Pierce a bottle of champagne with a note that reads, "Thanks for existing."

 

[wuck]

From Chad Ford:

Harrison Barnes measured 6-8 with 6-11.5 wing.

 

[Steve_424]

I watched a lot of North Carolina's games this year. Barnes couldn't score worth a crap unless he caught the ball from the perimeter and immediately shot it. And since unc had two all american post players the defense had to double down there, leaving him wide open. He won't have that luxury here. We are going to regret taking this guy. I saw him struggle badly to get by some scrubs from Ohio university. Not tOSU, but Ohio. Whoever of you guys are comparing him to luol deng are crazy! Barnes was an average defender at best in school.

Did you all read his article about branding himself? No chance he stays in this city any longer than he has to. Much rather take a chance on Drummond.

So you don't want Barnes based on his college performance, but want Drummond, a mediocre college player, instead?

 

[Steve_424]

CHICAGO — Agent Jeffery Wechsler has added one client in the 2012 draft.

Interestingly enough, he's almost a carbon copy of Wechsler's one player from the 2011 draft.

Wechsler represents North Carolina small forward Harrison Barnes in this year's draft, a player the Cavaliers seem very interested in drafting with their No. 4 overall pick on June 28.

Wechsler, whose agency is 24/7 Sports Management in Coral Gables, Fla., is also the agent for Cavs point guard Kyrie Irving.

He said the two former Atlantic Coast Conference standouts are high-character players who share many similarities.

"You don't have to push them to get in the gym," Wechsler said. "You don't have to push them to work hard. They are always trying to get better. That's important."

They both came out of high school in 2010. Barnes hails from Ames, Iowa, and Irving is from West Orange, N.J.

They both frequented many of the same summer basketball camps, including the LeBron James Skills Academy in Akron.

Irving, who won the Rookie of the Year award this season with the Cavs, played collegiately at Duke. Barnes turned down the Blue Devils and enrolled at rival North Carolina.

The decision gave the two stars something to talk about when their paths crossed.

"We kept in touch," Barnes said. "We met again at the LeBron camp."

Now, the two could become teammates with the Cavs.

The 6-foot-8, 210-pound Barnes, speaking at the NBA draft combine in Chicago on Thursday, said it's difficult to decipher which teams are actually interested.

"It's hard to tell," he said. "It's all poker faces around here. You can't really tell for sure who's interested and who is not.

"I'd like to go anywhere, honestly. You never know what teams want."

Barnes said he would be thrilled to join forces with Irving.

"I'm very proud of him," he said. "He's been putting in a lot of work. Cleveland is definitely on the rise."

Wechsler wouldn't say if the Cavs had a workout scheduled with Barnes.

"Whatever team is lucky enough to draft him, they'll get a super hard-working player," he said.

The Cavs are weighing their options at No. 4. If they don't select Barnes, one of the best long-range shooters available, they could take Florida shooting guard Bradley Beal (6-4, 205), Kentucky small forward Michael Kidd-Gilchrist (6-7, 232) or Connecticut center Andre Drummond (6-10, 250).

Members of the Cavs' front office were scheduled to interview Drummond on Thursday.

Drummond, the top-rated center prospect in the draft, said he's lost 22 pounds since the Huskies' season has ended.

He said he would work out for five teams in the draft, but wouldn't divulge which ones. It's likely Charlotte, Washington, Cleveland, Sacramento and Portland.

Kidd-Gilchrist, who is represented by Creative Arts Agency's Rich Paul, has been working out in Cleveland for the last month.

He, too, is a big Irving fan. They were high school teammates at St. Patrick's in New Jersey.

"He's one of my best friends," Kidd-Gilchrist said. "He's a leader. We talk a lot. I'd love to play with Kyrie."

Beal said he measured at 6-4 at the combine, a sticking point to many observers. If added to the Cavs' backcourt, it would be a bit undersized.

That's one reason he wants to be a combo guard in the NBA and be able to give a team minutes at both guard spots.



My favorite part of the article? Seeing various young, talented players wanting to play with Kyrie Irving. That's a very, very good sign folks.

 

[daytripper]

nvm
wuck beat me to it :chuckles:

 

[wuck]

From a larger column by Sam The Bullshit Whisperer (Fox Sports Ohio)

“I wouldn’t say (Barnes) is going to be a regular All-Star in this league, but I think he’ll be better (in the NBA) than he was in college with the right guys around him,” said one Western Conference executive. “Basically, he’s not someone who will carry your team by himself, but he could be a whale of a No. 2 option.”

...

Either way, Barnes’ stock has been climbing in recent days, mostly because of the talk of the Cavs possibly drafting him fourth.

“That talk has intrigued the Bobcats and Wizards (who own the second and third picks, respectively),” said a scout. “They’ll probably give Barnes a longer look now. But no matter what you hear, much of it will come down to how he fares in individual workouts.”

 

[Kouki]

All going according to plan...

 

[Tornicade]

If Charlotte drafts Robinson and the Cavs prop up Barnes to be drafted by the wizards (desperate for high character guys). Then Cavs could end up choosing between Beal and MKG

 

[Steve_424]

If Charlotte drafts Robinson and the Cavs prop up Barnes to be drafted by the wizards (desperate for high character guys). Then Cavs could end up choosing between Beal and MKG

What will be interesting is if Robinson goes #2, MKG #3, with Beal and Barnes on the board for the Cavaliers. I prefer Beal, but it seems like the Cavs are high on Barnes.