The Cavs vs Bulls Series

[Cavsfan161]

I will say if rose isn't the rose of 2011 then I think wizards can beat the Bulls.

 

[The Oi]

Az, you are underrating Bosh.

He is not declining in skills or talent. He declined in the way he was used by the Heat. His numbers will bounce back.

And Deng, Wade and Bosh are absolutely still near the top of the pack in positions that aren't very deep in high level talent in the NBA.

 

[CosmoKramer]

Az, you are underrating Bosh.

He is not declining in skills or talent. He declined in the way he was used by the Heat. His numbers will bounce back.

And Deng, Wade and Bosh are absolutely still near the top of the pack in positions that aren't very deep in high level talent in the NBA.

And Wade. It's not been three years since we've seen him play at a high level, Wade was the third best player on the court in the ECF last year. Guy averaged 20/5/4 against the league's best defensive team while shooting better from deep than LeBron.

 

[Ohio]

Az, you are underrating Bosh.

He is not declining in skills or talent. He declined in the way he was used by the Heat. His numbers will bounce back.

And Deng, Wade and Bosh are absolutely still near the top of the pack in positions that aren't very deep in high level talent in the NBA.

SF isn't deep in high level talent?

I mean, when healthy Deng is an above average SF for sure. But he's not top 5 or anything. And he also wasn't healthy at all last season.

 

[Frank Reynolds]

Anyone notice the omission of Irving's name in these ESPN conversations?

"Kevin Love and LeBron isn't enough to beat Chicago"

Okay, well here's Kyrie Irving and Dion Waiters for you. Heres Anderson and Tristan coming off the bench. Here's Mike Miller and James Jones sniping.

And people act like the Spurs didn't just win a finals series because of their incredible offense.....

The Spurs defense was very solid, but they don't have any physically talented defenders outside of Leonard.

I'm pretty sure we have the talent, and the IQ to play the same type of defense that San Antonio put up. We don't have to be the 04' Pistons, we need to play offense like the Spurs just did, because then we'll be formidable and a true championship contender.

It's predicated on that insane ball-movement. With LBJ, Love, Blatt and Irving, I think we have the talent to get the rock whipping all over the court. Once that happens, defense be damned. How could you D up against that team?

 

[czvo]

Anyone notice the omission of Irving's name in these ESPN conversations?

"Kevin Love and LeBron isn't enough to beat Chicago"

Okay, well here's Kyrie Irving and Dion Waiters for you. Heres Anderson and Tristan coming off the bench. Here's Mike Miller and James Jones sniping.

And people act like the Spurs didn't just win a finals series because of their incredible offense.....

The Spurs defense was very solid, but they don't have any physically talented defenders outside of Leonard.

I'm pretty sure we have the talent, and the IQ to play the same type of defense that San Antonio put up. We don't have to be the 04' Pistons, we need to play offense like the Spurs just did, because then we'll be formidable and a true championship contender.

It's predicated on that insane ball-movement. With LBJ, Love, Blatt and Irving, I think we have the talent to get the rock whipping all over the court. Once that happens, defense be damned. How could you D up against that team?

What ESPN conversations are you referring to?

 

[The Oi]

SF isn't deep in high level talent?

There's four top end guys. Some order of LeBron, Durant, Melo, George. Then the rest is a toss up of some order of Leonard, Batum, Josh Smith, Gay and Deng with Parsons, Leonard and maybe Young on the rise. Pretty easy to get into the top 10 overall SF's any given season. And I'd call top 10 one of the best players at their position.

Compare that to PG, where there's a shitload of top end talent and I wouldn't say that's incredibly deep.

 

[blommen]

There's four top end guys. Some order of LeBron, Durant, Melo, George. Then the rest is a toss up of some order of Leonard, Batum, Josh Smith, Gay and Deng with Parsons, Leonard and maybe Young on the rise. Pretty easy to get into the top 10 overall SF's any given season. And I'd call top 10 one of the best players at their position.

Compare that to PG, where there's a shitload of top end talent and I wouldn't say that's incredibly deep.

every single position looks paper thin compared to the PG spot. that's not really a fair comparison.

 

[The Oi]

every single position looks paper thin compared to the PG spot. that's not really a fair comparison.

It's not really a matter of fairness. Just saying the Heat happen to have three guys who are near the top in their positions, which can tell you something- but not everything- about how they'll match up with other teams.

And I'll believe they can be competitive with the Cavs until proven otherwise, given the amount of veteran playoff experience and talent on that team.

And regular season isn't as much proof as what happens if/when they match up in the playoffs.

 

[blommen]

It's not really a matter of fairness. Just saying the Heat happen to have three guys who are near the top in their positions, which can tell you something- but not everything- about how they'll match up with other teams.

I think a more interesting angle is how big the drop off is from their previous player as simply stating what ranking the new player has doesn't account of how big the difference is in skill. I just don't see the heat way as a very succesful one right now. last year they counted on LeBron to take over all the games and now that player will most likely be Chris Bosh. I think fatigue is going be a big factor for Bosh this year, 'cause he will be their best weapon throughout the season. I think Wade is going to have his wheels fall off, since they won't have the luxury of sitting him multiple games if they want a realistic shot at making the playoffs. While Deng was a nice signing I just think the drop-off will be too big and the work load too insurmountable for them to keep up against the other younger east teams.

 

[Mdog1]

What's all this crap about the Heat? They will be lucky to be a playoff team this year...

They literally downgraded at every position, except PG and C. Bosh with another year, Wade with another year, going from LeBron to Deing, not to mention the thinning of the bench.

 

[Marcus]

What's all this crap about the Heat? They will be lucky to be a playoff team this year...

They literally downgraded at every position, except PG and C. Bosh with another year, Wade with another year, going from LeBron to Deing, not to mention the thinning of the bench.

The East is still the East. Wade and Bosh are still All-Star caliber players. Deng is still an above average forward. 45 wins is not outside the realm of possibility, which is more than enough to earn a middle seed in the East.

 

[The Oi]

Eh, people will see what the Heat are about not long into the season. If healthy, they're absolutely a playoff team in a weak conference. And if they finish in the middle of the pack, they're going to have an excellent shot at advancing.

 

[Mdog1]

The East is still the East. Wade and Bosh are still All-Star caliber players. Deng is still an above average forward. 45 wins is not outside the realm of possibility, which is more than enough to earn a middle seed in the East.

Oh absolutely they could make the playoffs, and they likely will, to get swept in the first round. I'm just saying that they have to have a lot go right for them in order to do so. Wade has to be able to play at a high level for more games than he did last year, Bosh has to return to old form (or rather young form), and Loul has to be healthy, just for them to make the playoffs.

Neither of those three guys are singularly able to lead a team to the playoffs, if one of them gets hurt for a significant amount of time they won't make the playoffs, and Minni will he getting a top 14 pick.

 

[Mdog1]

Eh, people will see what the Heat are about not long into the season. If healthy, they're absolutely a playoff team in a weak conference. And if they finish in the middle of the pack, they're going to have an excellent shot at advancing.

This sounds a lot like the Lakers argument we all had back when we had their pick. My argument was simple, 5 years ago that would have been the team to beat, in the present, they will barely make the playoffs