Anderson Varejao

[SoundBreaker]

Re: Anderson Varejao is our untouchable

Reality is, this team won't be a legit title contender for about 3 more years. By then Andy will be on the backside of his career where he might not be able to give what he can now.

I would move him for a good offer that would help the youth movement (picks, young player, etc...). His value to us will be greater then than his value to us now as maaaaaybe the 9th best team in the EAST.

 

[Triumph36]

Re: Anderson Varejao is our untouchable

okc kept nick collison. i understand andy is a lot better than collison but i see them as similar hustle players. i understand the idea of trading andy while hes worth something, but imo hes worth more staying here than anything we will get

different situation. collison didn't/doesn't have the injury history that av does. collison just turned 31 and okc is already an elite elite team (and they were vv good last yr), arguably the best in the west. the cavs have no shot of being that good that soon (av will be 31 in 2 yrs). if they did, then keeping him becomes more likely. him being the cavs most valuable trade chip aside from the rookies is another significant factor considering the team is desperate for quality young talent.

btw, the gap between av and collison isn't as big as you think. the gap between a 31yo collison and a 31yo av is even smaller.

 

[KI4MVP]

Re: Anderson Varejao is our untouchable

different situation. collison didn't/doesn't have the injury history that av does. collison just turned 31 and okc is already an elite elite team (and they were vv good last yr), arguably the best in the west. the cavs have no shot of being that good that soon (av will be 31 in 2 yrs). if they did, then keeping him becomes more likely. him being the cavs most valuable trade chip aside from the rookies is another significant factor considering the team is desperate for quality young talent.

btw, the gap between av and collison isn't as big as you think. the gap between a 31yo collison and a 31yo av is even smaller.

certainly not if we self-limit ourselves to bringing in players through the draft as our only way to get there. We also quite clearly could get there overnight with the right trade or trades.

btw:

Andy PER 17.56
Collison PER 13.9

That's a pretty big gap

 

[KI4MVP]

Re: Anderson Varejao is our untouchable

as maaaaaybe the 7th best team in the EAST.

fixed it for you. The question right now for having us 7th or 8th is how do we compare to boston - we'll get an answer to that over the next few days.

The Knicks are a mess, Bogut is out for the season for the Bucks, who else has a case to push us out of the top 8 in the east?

 

[Triumph36]

Re: Anderson Varejao is our untouchable

certainly not if we self-limit ourselves to bringing in players through the draft as our only way to get there. We also quite clearly could get there overnight with the right trade or trades.

when are you going to accept the fact that other teams aren't going to trade their good players for the cavs crappy players and/or crappy picks?

i seriously don't understand how you believe anything the cavs could trade would net them a return that makes them a contender, much less an elite team (of which there are what, maybe 3-4 in the league?)

the only feasible route for the cavs to ascend as quickly as okc did is via the draft and even that is a serious long-shot.

 

[Huber.]

Re: Anderson Varejao is our untouchable

fixed it for you. The question right now for having us 7th or 8th is how do we compare to boston - we'll get an answer to that over the next few days.

The Knicks are a mess, Bogut is out for the season for the Bucks, who else has a case to push us out of the top 8 in the east?

While the Celtics maybe old they still have a lot more talent than us and so do the Knicks. Last night the Celtics were down big to the Magic and came back and to win it. Something that our team won't be able to do this year is to fight back into a game and win it. As for the Knicks, they just need a new coach and for Baron to come back and play like he did last year with us.

 

[KI4MVP]

Re: Anderson Varejao is our untouchable

when are you going to accept the fact that other teams aren't going to trade their good players for the cavs crappy players and/or crappy picks?

i seriously don't understand how you believe anything the cavs could trade would net them a return that makes them a contender, much less an elite team (of which there are what, maybe 3-4 in the league?)

the only feasible route for the cavs to ascend as quickly as okc did is via the draft and even that is a serious long-shot.

yet somehow the Clippers managed to join that group with one waiver claim and one trade, which came just months after they gave us Kyrie to save money. They added him to a team with one impact player that was a rookie last year. Are you suggesting they are somehow better managed or better owned than the Cavs? We certainly have more trade assets than they did.

I'm sure if their fans are anything like the fans on our board, they ripped the team for claiming Billups.

 

[metalman213]

Re: Anderson Varejao is our untouchable

different situation. collison didn't/doesn't have the injury history that av does. collison just turned 31 and okc is already an elite elite team (and they were vv good last yr), arguably the best in the west. the cavs have no shot of being that good that soon (av will be 31 in 2 yrs). if they did, then keeping him becomes more likely. him being the cavs most valuable trade chip aside from the rookies is another significant factor considering the team is desperate for quality young talent.

btw, the gap between av and collison isn't as big as you think. the gap between a 31yo collison and a 31yo av is even smaller.

3 years ago okc won 23 games.

the injury thing is intriguing but i think andy can stay healthy, especially if hes on the bench like collison

 

[KI4MVP]

Re: Anderson Varejao is our untouchable

While the Celtics maybe old they still have a lot more talent than us and so do the Knicks. Last night they Celtics were down big to the Magic and came back and to win it. Something that our team won't be able to do this year is to fight back into a game and win it. As for the Knicks, they just need a new coach and for Baron to come back and play like he did last year with us.

We didn't win the game, but we came back from down 11 in the 4th to indy to force overtime. We were a layup away from winning outright too.

But I did say we'll get a better idea of how we stack up against Boston in the next few days. I don't have a lot of faith in the knicks. That team seems ready to completely implode. Perhaps Baron turns them around, but until he does and shows he can stay healthy, I have a hard time putting them ahead of us. We have a better record and just beat them head to head.

 

[Zone]

Re: Anderson Varejao is our untouchable

yet somehow the Clippers managed to join that group with one waiver claim and one trade

Didn't they manage to sign Caron Butler?

I think you make a blanket statement with the "one trade". They traded for arguably the best PG in the game, and did so without having to give up their best player. The move also solidified a bench spot at Guard by moving Mo there

We certainly have more trade assets than they did.

Interesting way to write this. Yes, by sheer number of assets, the Cavs would probably have more than the Clippers did. Just the number of extra picks we have satisfies what you write. But at this time, IMO, that Minny pick is better than all of our extra picks combined.

Wake me up when we have a guy like Eric Gordon to throw in
_______

Anyways, sorry for going off-topic. This is a thread for people to discuss Andy being untouchable....

 

[*L-Train*]

Re: Anderson Varejao is our untouchable

yet somehow the Clippers managed to join that group with one waiver claim and one trade, which came just months after they gave us Kyrie to save money. They added him to a team with one impact player that was a rookie last year. Are you suggesting they are somehow better managed or better owned than the Cavs? We certainly have more trade assets than they did.

I'm sure if their fans are anything like the fans on our board, they ripped the team for claiming Billups.

they traded Eric Gordon and Aminu both drafted high in the lottery....without those 2 they wouldn't have gotten Paul

 

[KI4MVP]

Re: Anderson Varejao is our untouchable

I don't see anything I these arguments that count as reasons we couldn't be contenders next year similar to the route the clippers took this year. We have a ton of cap space this year, certainly we could get a Caron butler type signing. More players will be amnestied next year, we could potentially get a bargain that way. In a trade for a superstar, a guy like tristian could have as much or more value next year as gordan had this year.

The point being simply to keep all options open rather than limit ourselves to a single path.

 

[*L-Train*]

Re: Anderson Varejao is our untouchable

I don't see anything I these arguments that count as reasons we couldn't be contenders next year similar to the route the clippers took this year. We have a ton of cap space this year, certainly we could get a Caron butler type signing. More players will be amnestied next year, we could potentially get a bargain that way. In a trade for a superstar, a guy like tristian could have as much or more value next year as gordan had this year.

The point being simply to keep all options open rather than limit ourselves to a single path.

again the Clippers traded 2 high lottery picks (Gordon, Aminu) and another first rounder (the one they got from Minnesota) which will likely end up in the lottery as well. and sorry but if you think Tristan could have as much (or even more) value as Gordon next year you're crazy....

a trade comparable to what the Clippers gave up would be Kyrie (=Gordon) + Tristan (=Aminu) and our 2012 pick for Chris Paul and you think we have assets :thumbdown

 

[CavsFaninNJ]

Re: Anderson Varejao is our untouchable

Even if you move AV, you showcase him long enough before doing so. The Cavs may be thinking similarly to a lot of you and may want to deal him - but ideally, I'd risk letting him go through a healthy season without getting hurt and get the best return.

Unless they are worried about him getting them too many wins, then the time may be sooner rather than later - but we aren't sure what the team thinks internally about winning vs losing. Their opinion will be clear this trading deadline. They will have a Varejao piece, 3rd best rebounder in the league, 2nd team all defense for sure, whose value will be higher than ever... gonna be interesting.

 

[czvo]

Re: Anderson Varejao is our untouchable

Not to mention the Clippers had Chris Paul AND the original trade to the Lakers was shot down.

Considering the teams Paul wanted to go to, the Clippers were probably 4th-5th on his list.

Speaking of injuries, I now hate Bogut and Bargs. If those two could stay healthy, the Raps and Bucks would pass the Cavs. Now? I don't see it... which sucks. At the end of the day, the 7 teams in front of the Cavs will make it, and the Knicks will jump them. Cleveland (most likely) won't make the playoffs, but they'll be 9th or 10th in the East, which is even worse than making it as a 7th or 8th seed.