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Andrew Wiggins

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Re: #1: Andrew Wiggins - G/F - Kansas University

I think Cousins is and will be better than Davis and DMC is a better man to man defender than Davis.


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I think a majority of people are going to disagree with you on this. Not to mention the fact that Cousins is probably one bad day away from strangling someone, while Davis has always seemed to have a good head on his shoulders.
 
Re: #1: Andrew Wiggins - G/F - Kansas University

Davis has been in the league half as long as Cousins and is already the better player.
 
Re: #1: Andrew Wiggins - G/F - Kansas University

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11240046/cleveland-cavaliers-sign-andrew-wiggins-week

The Cleveland Cavaliers are planning to sign No. 1 overall draft pick Andrew Wiggins to a contract in the coming week, according to sources close to the process.

Sources told ESPN.com that the Cavaliers' delay in signing the former Kansas star has nothing to do with the prospect of Wiggins being dealt to the Minnesota Timberwolves as part of Cleveland's ongoing trade discussions for Kevin Love.

The Cavaliers, sources say, are merely exploring options for using their estimated $1.4 million in remaining cap space before signing Wiggins to a contract that will pay him in the neighborhood of $5.5 million as a rookie.

The Cavs and Timberwolves have been discussing a Love trade since the return of LeBron James, with sources saying that Minnesota is insistent on getting Wiggins back in any deal that sends Love to Cleveland.

Once Wiggins signs, though, league rules stipulate that the Cavs must wait 30 days before trading him.

One option under consideration for the Cavs, sources say, is using their leftover salary-cap space to create long-term contracts for recent second-round picks Joe Harris and Dwight Powell. Signing Wiggins first would preclude such moves.

The Cavs' delay in formalizing Wiggins' contract has garnered extra attention because of the Love factor, but the reality is that this process is a fairly routine bit of salary-cap management that takes place this time of year with draft picks.

Once the Cavs exhaust their cap space and sign Wiggins, they are expected to officially sign free agent Mike Miller to a two-year, $5.6 million deal. The Cavs will be signing Miller with their $2.7 million "room" exception, which can only be used after teams that previously had salary-cap room use it up.

The Cavs also remain interested in free agent Ray Allen, who is being recruited to Cleveland by former teammates Miller and LeBron James. But Cleveland will only be able to offer him a $1.4 million veteran's minimum contract.

Allen, who turned 39 on Sunday, has been traveling on a Nike promotional trip in China for the past week as he considers his options for the future.
 
Re: #1: Andrew Wiggins - G/F - Kansas University

ESPNNBA: Sources: Cavaliers planning to sign Andrew Wiggins this week (via @WindhorstESPN).

[url]http://t.co/kLVXOqQB8a http://t.co/vM8f9s0y07[/URL]
 
Re: #1: Andrew Wiggins - G/F - Kansas University

Thank the Lord!

Thank you Tom Cruise!
 
Re: #1: Andrew Wiggins - G/F - Kansas University

Does this really change anything?
 
Re: #1: Andrew Wiggins - G/F - Kansas University

Does this really change anything?

No... Deal could happen in a month, I'm assuming they want to have a deal done by training camp which is still months away.
 
Re: #1: Andrew Wiggins - G/F - Kansas University

Does this really change anything?

Better for another thread....but:

Nothing about the story or Wiggins signing will stop rumors (or truths) about Wiggins getting traded for Love. That talk might just intensify. But:

1) Once the Cavs sign Wiggins, he can't be traded as $0 in salary.

2) Once the Cavs sign either or both second rounders, they can be used in trades in 30 days.

3) Once the Cavs go over the cap, I believe the Cavs have to wait 60 days (after Haywood was acquired on July 12) before they can aggregate Haywood's salary as part of a package for Love. In other words, the Cavs wouldn't be able to use Haywood's contract as filler to reach the $10.7 figure but would have to turn to other options on the roster.
 
Re: #1: Andrew Wiggins - G/F - Kansas University

Better for another thread....but:

Nothing about the story or Wiggins signing will stop rumors (or truths) about Wiggins getting traded for Love. That talk might just intensify. But:

1) Once the Cavs sign Wiggins, he can't be traded as $0 in salary.

2) Once the Cavs sign either or both second rounders, they can be used in trades in 30 days.

3) Once the Cavs go over the cap, I believe the Cavs have to wait 60 days (after Haywood was acquired on July 12) before they can aggregate Haywood's salary as part of a package for Love. In other words, the Cavs wouldn't be able to use Haywood's contract as filler to reach the $10.7 figure but would have to turn to other options on the roster.


Just don't see it happening if he gets signed this week. If Love is coming to Cleveland anytime soon, it most likely a part of a 3 team trade.
 
Re: #1: Andrew Wiggins - G/F - Kansas University

Something I'm sort of unclear on:

Can we sign Wiggins and then after he has a contract, agree to a deal in principle to be consummated 30 days later?

I haven't heard of that sort of thing happening before.

Of course this is assuming Wiggins will be included which is also unclear.
 
Re: #1: Andrew Wiggins - G/F - Kansas University

Sign this kid and keep him!!
 
Re: #1: Andrew Wiggins - G/F - Kansas University

There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

The WAR chart you linked above has Channing Frye at No. 14, Ricky Rubio at 15, and Anthony Davis at 72. That's the statistical method you use to support your claim as to Love being among the top 4-6 best players in the league. And it's the basis for your claim that adding Love gets us to 70 wins.



Using your logic, and your own factual sources, we shouldn't even have bothered with Kevin Love. We could have added Channing Frye (WAR 10.8), replaced KI (WAR 1.47) with Patrick Beverly (WAR 7.26), gotten 3-4 more wins than with Love, and still been "assured" of a title.

I don't use just "WAR", and I think using one single metric is flawed. So sorry that's not my argument. Further,most people around the country understand that Love will be better for the Cavaliers going forward, he's much better than Kyrie so you should at least give him up for Love rather than not getting him at all. Waiters and Bennett are not respected as trade chips in the stats community, at least not for someone like Kevin Love. I would love to see a trio of LeBron/Love/Wiggins btw.

Additionally, according to an amalgamation of advanced metrics Kevin Love is a top 10 or top 5 player. That's pretty much the consensus amongst the stat nerds. Not cause of "WAR".

And historically speaking, a team with 70 Pythagorean Wins is guaranteed a title. The difference between having a role player next year and having Kevin Love is pretty vast in terms of getting a title. And it makes sense to build around LeBron James and Kevin love, not Paul George and 35 year old LeBron. And the extensive player comparison projections suggest there's a ~70% chance Wiggins does not become a superstar offensive talent.
 
Re: #1: Andrew Wiggins - G/F - Kansas University

Something I'm sort of unclear on:

Can we sign Wiggins and then after he has a contract, agree to a deal in principle to be consummated 30 days later?

I haven't heard of that sort of thing happening before.

Of course this is assuming Wiggins will be included which is also unclear.

There can be an agreement hammered out, it just can't be filed with the league because it would be rejected. That said, it would not be airtight because verbal contracts between teams don't hold weight while verbal deals between players and teams do. That's why the Cavs probably won't even talk contract with Wiggins' agent until they're ready to sign. If they tell him they are going to pay him 20% over the slot (as always happens) then they get a cap hit for that full amount going back to the moment they may the promise to him.

I'm not sure they'd make any deal with Wiggins until it can be consummated quickly because either team could back out 30 days later. It's a major reason why I don't think Wiggins has ever been offered. The Cavs aren't going to do a deal with Wiggins where he does not count for salary matching. Since we are over 30 days away from that point, I doubt he has every been included. Minnesota has likely requested him, but no dice.
 
Re: #1: Andrew Wiggins - G/F - Kansas University

I appreciate your thoughts, hopefully we can have a productive discussion.

aspivey said:
No one is making the case that Wiggins is currently, or will soon be, a superior all-around player than Love.

A few posts before you someone said Wiggins would be an MVP. Many Cavs fans have been getting upset with people who want to trade Wiggins. In every other fanbase's website, they understand that Love is much better overall and a better fit. Wiggins cannot shoot and will not be ready for a while. Who knows when? Fit means he has to fit well alongside LeBron, right now. LeBron James was also terrible as a rookie. Not encouraging signs when the best prospect can't stretch the floor or handle the ball. All well-known metrics show this.

The basic case is that Wiggins fills a more valuable need for the team (highly athletic wing defender) than Love (scoring and rebounding). He costs a lot less, still has significant upside (Love is moreso a known commodity), and you can have him without the forfeiture of any additional assets. It's an entirely reasonable case. One can tack on the potential long-term impact of his presence easing the defensive burden on LeBron.

Yes I get that, hence the Paul George with 35 year old LeBron comment. It still doesn't make sense statistically, even if this turns out to be the case.

That's not to say that I don't believe a case can be made for Love, but you're not the one making it. The price for Love becomes very steep when, to make salaries work, you have to trade not only Wiggins, but another young player with him.

Presuming yourself to be "objective" (ridiculous), let alone the sole objective observer (*sigh*, ignore), and calling people hold different opinions "highly illogical" is not going to win friends, influence people, or settle arguments on the internet. Your argument is weak and you're making it poorly. That's why people want you to stop.

Yes I think Love/LeBron/Wiggins could potentially be better than LeBron/Love/Kyrie. That would split the difference between fit and need, and give Cavs a nice perimeter defender along with a rare superstar stretch-4. Regardless all the stat nerds would still take Love over Wiggins, I understand that you want to keep him but the trade chips are not impressive.


Thanks for you response I think it was a useful debate.
 
Re: #1: Andrew Wiggins - G/F - Kansas University

^LeBron was not terrible as a rookie, he won ROY over Melo and became the first rookie to average 20-5-5 since Michael Jordan and Oscar Robertson.
 

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