Andrew Wiggins

[Kbiz]

I think this is a pretty simple trade:

Love stays, we win
Love leaves, Minny wins

These circular arguments of why we shouldn't do it...i can't even read these threads anymore. I'd shut this and the Love safari down until the 23rd. I feel like i am living in the twilight zone every time i revisit these.

 

[elcheato]

I think this is a pretty simple trade:

Love stays, we win
Love leaves, Minny wins

These circular arguments of why we shouldn't do it...i can't even read these threads anymore. I'd shut this and the Love safari down until the 23rd. I feel like i am living in the twilight zone every time i revisit these.

There doesn't have to be a clear cut winner and loser in trades, contrary to popular belief.. Minnesota is doing well regardless if they get Andrew Wiggins out of the deal. They aren't suddenly losers if Kevin Love re-signs with the Cavs.

Both teams are coming out on top in this trade. Minnesota gets the #1 pick, the Cavs get a top 10 player in the league and maintain their better draft picks in the up coming draft (assuming they move a 2018 first, and not the Memphis or Heat first)

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

You're not watching him close enough. His court vision isn't bad at all, it will not limit him.

A 1.5/2.3 assist/turnover ration doesn't scream "great court vision" to me. It may not be bad, in that he is completely incompetent, but in no sense is it a demonstrated strength of his.

Also, no one smart expected him to ever carry the team like Lebron, you really can't compare a rookie's court vision to Lebron's. It's not fair to any rookie.

I'm comparing freshman Wiggins to high school senior LBJ. It's not close.

 

[Los216]

A 1.5/2.3 assist/turnover ration doesn't scream "great court vision" to me. It may not be bad, in that he is completely incompetent, but in no sense is it a demonstrated strength of his.



I'm comparing freshman Wiggins to high school senior LBJ. It's not close.

Lebron as a senior was a better passer than half the PGs in the league. Passing has always been a strength of his.

 

[PeonHaiters]

A 1.5/2.3 assist/turnover ration doesn't scream "great court vision" to me. It may not be bad, in that he is completely incompetent, but in no sense is it a demonstrated strength of his.



I'm comparing freshman Wiggins to high school senior LBJ. It's not close.

Wait, why are we comparing Wiggins to arguably the best player of all time? Even in high school, everyone projected LeBron to be a Hall of Famer (watch the 2003 draft if you don't remember.) It's pointless to compare the two. That doesn't mean Wiggins won't be great, it just means he won't be the greatest player of all time.

Not to mention, the guy you quoted said that Wiggin's vision is "not bad at all" and then you literally put quotation marks around "great court vision" as if he remotely even said that.

Pretty terrible arguing there.

 

[Kidd Karma]

There doesn't have to be a clear cut winner and loser in trades, contrary to popular belief.. Minnesota is doing well regardless if they get Andrew Wiggins out of the deal. They aren't suddenly losers if Kevin Love re-signs with the Cavs.

Both teams are coming out on top in this trade. Minnesota gets the #1 pick, the Cavs get a top 10 player in the league and maintain their better draft picks in the up coming draft (assuming they move a 2018 first, and not the Memphis or Heat first)

Agreed. Cavs looking to win now, with the LBJ window open now and who knows how much longer. Wiggins in 3-4 years alongside LBJ would be awesome, but you don't want to waste 2-3 years of LBJ's window waiting on Wiggins. Minny gets a guy they can grow alongside Rubio, Lavine and Shabazz....and maybe this is the guy that would want to stick in Minny beyond his rookie contract, being close to Canada.

 

[Pioneer10]

I'm leaning more towards the VC comp, at least on offense, for Wiggins.
Still don't see the T-Mac and Pippen comparisons. On defense they have similar builds but both of these guys played point forward and were very good ballhandlers and passers for their positions. Just don't see that from Wiggins

VC on offense makes more sense: very good jumper, great elevation on his stepback and catch and shoot, and obvious great athleticism. Wiggins doesn't finish with the power thru traffic like a prime VC was able to and just has trouble finishing but that should get better with time.

 

[CosmoKramer]

I'm leaning more towards the VC comp, at least on offense, for Wiggins.
Still don't see the T-Mac and Pippen comparisons. On defense they have similar builds but both of these guys played point forward and were very good ballhandlers and passers for their positions. Just don't see that from Wiggins

VC on offense makes more sense: very good jumper, great elevation on his stepback and catch and shoot, and obvious great athleticism. Wiggins doesn't finish with the power thru traffic like a prime VC was able to and just has trouble finishing but that should get better with time.

I completely agree on Wiggins' offensive game resembling Vince Carter, that was his idol growing up in Toronto. The Scottie Pippen comp might need to be re-visited a few years down the road though, because Scottie Pippen was nowhere near as good a basketball player as Andrew Wiggins at the same age. Pippen didn't start at Central Arkansas as a freshman, mostly because he wasn't even on scholarship. He grew a couple inches and was the team's best player as a 19-year-old sophomore averaging 18.5 points, 9.2 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 1.8 steals, and 3.2 turnovers per game.

That 1.6/3.2 assist to turnover ratio is funny because Andrew Wiggins posted a better one (1.5/2.3) as an 18-year-old freshman playing the hardest strength of schedule in the entire nation at KU. Scottie Pippen didn't post a positive assist to turnover ratio until his senior year of college playing as a 21-year-old. His first two seasons in the NBA his AST/TO ratio was 2.8/2.2, and that was playing with the greatest player of all-time in Michael Jordan.

So knowing that he developed that ballhandling and passing to an elite level, why does every rush to say Wiggins can't do the same?

 

[spydy13]

Man... I feel sorry for this kid. I'll root for him and the Wolves. I hope he gets a nice ovation for his first visit.

Nobody cried about Carrick Felix being jettisoned from a winning team to nba purgatory.

 

[Pioneer10]

I don't think think assist to turnover ratio tells you much about ballhandling or court vision (it's going to be impacted by such things as how much you handle the ball, willingness to take risks passing or attacking the defense, etc.). This is particularly true when you're paired with Jordan who just dominated the rock for those young Bulls teams. I saw some old Bulls games a few months back and a young Pippen looked comfortable with handling the basketball and I didn't see the same concerns I have with Wiggins. Completely subjective on my part but frankly I think it tells you more then A/TO does regarding these factors.

Plus, I kind of throw comparisons out the door when it comes to these guys with late growth spurts. Rodman, The Admiral, AD, and Pippen just seem to follow different development curves then other players which is not unexpected. I'm not aware of Wiggins having a late growth spurt comparable to these guys and honestly Wiggins skillset in certain areas just look bad. His ballhandling would need to improve significantly just to reach average for NBA SG IMO. Don't really want this construed as Wiggins bashing past either: VC had a lot of expectations coming to NC and he got overshadowed similar to Wiggins by Jamison early. VC turned it around and was an elite player for a long time in the NBA (Wiggins needs to put on a lot of strength and improve his already mentioned skills like ball handling to get to that point because while he's quick and can jump as high as VC he doesn't have the same ferocity attacking the basket yet)

 

[Lyst]

Nobody cried about Carrick Felix being jettisoned from a winning team to nba purgatory.

That's because Carrick Felix sucks.

 

[foucault87]

I don't see why we have to give up Wiggins for Love. Minny doesn't really have that much leverage in this deal, and honestly I think we are bidding against ourselves by throwing Wiggins into the pot. I doubt it would happen, but I would love to see what Wiggins could do with LeBron and Love feeding him the ball on the break.

 

[dark2332]

I don't see why we have to give up Wiggins for Love

...because holding a gun to their head and making them do a deal against their will is illegal.

 

[shoes22]

What I wonder is why Wiggins signed the contract when he did in the first place if he was worried about getting traded. Why not delay it as long as possible?

 

[Snarly]

What I wonder is why Wiggins signed the contract when he did in the first place if he was worried about getting traded. Why not delay it as long as possible?

I think because the Cavs are trying to find as many teams possible to not give up Wiggins and are trying like hell to keep him but want this trade done as soon as possible. It will happen with Wiggins if it must no doubt but I am sure Griffin and the Cavs FO set the deadline and are trying to make magic happen.