Antawn Wants and Expects to Remain with Cavs

[czvo]

so then you like having him on the team because he ensures they lose right? arent you one of the guys wanting to lose as many games as possible?

Double-edged sword with Tawn. The numbers suggest he's perfect for losing, but every few games he just can't miss... I think if you moved him and replaced him with Samardo, this team would start losing more than they are now.

 

[Jon]

Double-edged sword with Tawn. The numbers suggest he's perfect for losing, but every few games he just can't miss... I think if you moved him and replaced him with Samardo, this team would start losing more than they are now.

There are a *lot* of players in the league who can run cold, cold, cold, cold, hot. It's not just Antawn. It's pretty much every wannabe scorer in the league.

Now if you'd rather see Manny Harris going off for 30 pts every few games because he's younger, that's fine I suppose.

Manny shot better than 50% in 26% of his games last season. Antawn's managed it in 29% this season.

But if tanking is the goal, you're in big trouble if some other guys on the team end up picking up the slack - or if Manny has actually improved his efficiency. The only hope then would be that our offense would fall apart due to an inability to spread the floor.

 

[Tornicade]

I dont think losing Jamison to injury or buyout or for a 2nd round pick really impacts the teams win and loss record. It does impact Scotts playtime leverage and changes what the cavs do on the floor.

 

[The Process God]

I dont think losing Jamison to injury or buyout or for a 2nd round pick really impacts the teams win and loss record. It does impact Scotts playtime leverage and changes what the cavs do on the floor.

Getting Jamison off the floor would heavily impact the team's win/loss record. And Kyrie is not going to magically score 30 points a game either.

 

[Jon]

Getting Jamison off the floor would heavily impact the team's win/loss record.

There's not much actual evidence of this. For instance the Cavs were 9-47 with Jamison in the lineup last season, and 10-16 without him.

And Kyrie is not going to magically score 30 points a game either.

There are 8 players on the roster with a higher TS% than Antawn ... it almost doesn't matter who took his shots. Not only can't he guard his own position effectively, he makes it harder on everyone else because his help D is even worse.

While Jamison does spread the floor and make things easier for other players to drive and create; if we actually played a PF & C who could help Kyrie contain opposing PGs ... our defense might actually work.

 

[KI4MVP]

Getting Jamison off the floor would heavily impact the team's win/loss record. And Kyrie is not going to magically score 30 points a game either.

Do you forget we lost Jamison's 18 ppg for the last month and a half of the season last year. We still managed 8 wins, including 6 of the last 12. This was without Andy or Jamison. We also went 2-1 in 3 games he missed earlier in the season.

 

[The Process God]

There's not much actual evidence of this. For instance the Cavs were 9-47 with Jamison in the lineup last season, and 10-16 without him.



There are 8 players on the roster with a higher TS% than Antawn ... it almost doesn't matter who took his shots. Not only can't he guard his own position effectively, he makes it harder on everyone else because his help D is even worse.

While Jamison does spread the floor and make things easier for other players to drive and create; if we actually played a PF & C who could help Kyrie contain opposing PGs ... our defense might actually work.

Do you forget we lost Jamison's 18 ppg for the last month and a half of the season last year. We still managed 8 wins, including 6 of the last 12. This was without Andy or Jamison. We also went 2-1 in 3 games he missed earlier in the season.

Two words for both of you: Baron Davis. We might've won none of those games at the end if it weren't for him. Besides, as shot amount increases, it's natural for TS% to drop because the shot selection isn't as good. I'd like to see someone else on the roster other than Kyrie or Sessions step up to the plate, score 18ppg and be as good or better than Jamison. There are plenty of high volume scorers in the league now and in the past who have not had the best FG%, yet they were still considered the best. If they can, that's actually fantastic. We have a possible future 3rd option for this team's offense. Besides, it was pretty obvious that Jamison has helped win at least a few games this year that would've otherwise not been won. I am not talking about last season. I'm talking about this season. Here and now. Jamison's hot-and-cold style has clearly done its damage in getting us empty wins. His win share per 48 minutes last season was .067. This season is .115. His offensive and especially his defensive rating have improved this year as well. The statistics back up the notion that Jamison is causing us to win games this season.

 

[Giambiwannabe7]

Jamison has also done more than his fair share of contributing to losses this season with his BS chucking and piss poor D. Anyone who says he has contributed to wins this year without also acknowledging his major effect in losses is simply not looking at this thing objectively. He has 14 games this season shooting 40% or less, in which the team is 5-9. The rest of the games in which he shoots better than 40% we are 8-9. Not some mind numbing difference here. The funny thing is, in February Jamison has 4 games shooting under 34%. In those games the Cavs are 3-1, including wins over playoff bound Indiana and a win over defending champ Dallas. So, in many instances, we see a young team winning in spite of him. In January, we see Jamison shoot 23% with 3 boards in a victory at Boston, another playoff bound team.
It's inconcistancies like these that has had me saying all along that AJ's departure isn't going to have some sort of Titanic effect on this team, like so many tankers on here like to guarantee. Will we lose some games without him? Sure, but there may also be just as many nights that his lack of terrible shooting/shot selection and pathetic D will be beneficial to ball movement and increased opportunity for the rest of the team. Nights that he gets 3 boards and 10 points in 13 shots may end up being replaced by a guy like TT who also gets 10 points, but maybe on 6 shots, grabs 10-15 boards, blocks a few shots and alters a bunch more.
Point is, it's not so black and white....just like the rest of the tanker's arguments on this season. There are so many more variables at play with this squad that changing one thing doesn't necessarily equate to season altering effects.
And Baron Davis? Really? Look, I like the guy, and he was good for this team, but let's not overstate this thing here. Just look at his games at the end of the season last year. In April, the Cavs went 4-4. In a win vs DET, Davis went 1-5(4pts), 4 Ast and 1 TO in 19 mins. I'm pretty sure he wasn't the lynchpin of a solid W there. In a 10 pt victory over CHA Davis shoots 3-10(11 pts), 5Ast, 3 TO in 27mins. Again, hardly the driving force in a double digit win. In the same way, his best scoring game came against the NYK, in which he scores 22pts in 25 mins on 57% shooting...in a 16pt blowout loss! The icing on the cake? Baron did not even play in the season ending W over WAS!! So, in 3 of the 4 wins in April Davis either had ZERO contribution or was arguably a hinderance in winning. Win shares per 48? Oh, ok. Well, Ramon Sessions...you know the guy who WAS starting when Davis wasn't here or out with injury, had a higher win share per 48 in more games. Again, just throwing up hollow reasoning only furthers the point that this thing is not so black and white. Just like AJ, Baron obviously did some things to help his team out, but he was NOT the guy so many fans would like to make others believe. He only further weakens any such argument and adds ammo to guys like myself and Jon's argument that this supposed cliff dive the team would encounter with the loss of AJ is not without a high level of doubt.
And FWIW....like KI4MVP stated...that 4-4 month was also without AJ and Andy...and some dude named Kyrie!! Imagine that.

 

[Tornicade]

Two words for You. Byron Scott.

Jamison has been Irvings security blanket all season. you rarely see irving on the court without Jamison. It would definately take a few games to adjust but Cavs will adjust.

Cavs are 11 pointsbetter ever 100 posessions with Jamison off the court. The cavs will Improve right away defensively. Offensively there will some adjustments but after a week the team will adapt. scott has done everything he could with thompson to avoid the rookie wall. I expect him to finish the season strong

 

[Jon]

Two words for both of you: Baron Davis.

Two more words: Kyrie Irving. The kid is gaining confidence and getting better week to week.

There are plenty of high volume scorers in the league now and in the past who have not had the best FG%, yet they were still considered the best.

We're only interested in winning, not perception. A high volume chucker can be an asset in very specific circumstances: playing on a slow paced, strong defensive and strong offensive rebounding team for example, or if the player is exceptionally good at drawing fouls, or if the player consistently comes through in the clutch; but without those specific exceptions a chucker just means your wasting possessions.

Anyway, our goal isn't to convince you this is going to happen, we're not claiming to be psychics ... but you should consider that the bar for replacing Jamison's chucking is just not that high. It's one thing if we dump vets and throw our young players in over their heads, it's quite another if we actually have some success replacing them.

 

[Bill Walton.]

four words for you

 

[Derek]

Two words for both of you: Baron Davis. We might've won none of those games at the end if it weren't for him. Besides, as shot amount increases, it's natural for TS% to drop because the shot selection isn't as good. I'd like to see someone else on the roster other than Kyrie or Sessions step up to the plate, score 18ppg and be as good or better than Jamison. There are plenty of high volume scorers in the league now and in the past who have not had the best FG%, yet they were still considered the best. If they can, that's actually fantastic. We have a possible future 3rd option for this team's offense. Besides, it was pretty obvious that Jamison has helped win at least a few games this year that would've otherwise not been won. I am not talking about last season. I'm talking about this season. Here and now. Jamison's hot-and-cold style has clearly done its damage in getting us empty wins. His win share per 48 minutes last season was .067. This season is .115. His offensive and especially his defensive rating have improved this year as well. The statistics back up the notion that Jamison is causing us to win games this season.

His win shares/48 have gone up because we're winning a higher % of our games

Right now Matt Barnes has .144 WS/48 and Troy Murphy has .106 for the Lakers. It's not because they're contributing to wins any more than Jamison is, it's because the Lakers have more wins. That's why you can't compare one guys WS to another guy's on a different team. The 10-11 Cavs are a different team than the 11-12 Cavs, you can't compare WS.

 

[bigfoot5415]

The Pacers resently talked about trimming their rotation to 8 or 9 guys, but questioned Jeff Fosters health (Via Mike Wells). It also appears that Price will be pushed out of their rotation. As mentioned before, Indy looks like a suitor, but after that information they look like a trade partner now more than ever. Their space and Price is enough to acquire Jamison for their rotation, add some depth, scoring, and leadership. Add a first rounder our way and we can call it a deal. Hell I would even send them our current 2nd and both next year to add extra incentive. Not to mention he will be off their books this summer.

However, I do have a question if we did the Price for Jamison trade, would that give us a large tpe of the difference in salaries?

 

[Derek]

The Pacers resently talked about trimming their rotation to 8 or 9 guys, but questioned Jeff Fosters health (Via Mike Wells). It also appears that Price will be pushed out of their rotation. As mentioned before, Indy looks like a suitor, but after that information they look like a trade partner now more than ever. Their space and Price is enough to acquire Jamison for their rotation, add some depth, scoring, and leadership. Add a first rounder our way and we can call it a deal. Hell I would even send them our current 2nd and both next year to add extra incentive. Not to mention he will be off their books this summer.

However, I do have a question if we did the Price for Jamison trade, would that give us a large tpe of the difference in salaries?

It's my understanding that it would.

When we did the S&T with Miami we traded LeBron and his $14.5 million contract for draft picks and cap space, that cap space turned into a TPE. Same principles would apply here minus whatever AJ Price costs.

 

[Giambiwannabe7]

The Pacers resently talked about trimming their rotation to 8 or 9 guys, but questioned Jeff Fosters health (Via Mike Wells). It also appears that Price will be pushed out of their rotation. As mentioned before, Indy looks like a suitor, but after that information they look like a trade partner now more than ever. Their space and Price is enough to acquire Jamison for their rotation, add some depth, scoring, and leadership. Add a first rounder our way and we can call it a deal. Hell I would even send them our current 2nd and both next year to add extra incentive. Not to mention he will be off their books this summer.

However, I do have a question if we did the Price for Jamison trade, would that give us a large tpe of the difference in salaries?

I don't even have to look up Price's salary to know 100% for certain they would not match up....not even close. And give them 3 2nd's? Ummm...this will never happen.