Anthony Bennett

[The Process God]

I still love Anthony Bennett and foresee a bright future because all the mechanics and skills and athleticism are there. His issue is all mental, whether it's immaturity, irresponsibility, or just not putting in the preparation to be ready for the game. All of those can be fixed with an attitude adjustment. He seems to be, by all accounts, a really great guy. He's just young and in over his head. Next year, with a healthy offseason and summer league and all that, he can come in a completely different player. He may be undersized height wise, but he's a well above average athlete, with strength and vertical to spare, plus he's got a 7'1 wingspan. He just needs to be more motivated and lay off the gravy and Krispy kreme this summer.

I'd still be ecstatic if we get Vonleh in the draft though.

According to max, Bennett's wingspan might be closer to 7'3".

 

[chrisrich91]

Excellent post.

Here is the problem for you. Everything you say about Bennett is based on a hope. Everything I say is based on what he actually did on the court. Which one of us is in the stronger position?

You guys want to crown him the PF of the future, ok, go ahead. I don't, and quite frankly between the two of us I have more evidence backing up my position than you do.

But let's actually take the "arguments" and analyze them.

1) Do I understand potential? I do. Bennett didn't show much this year. Furthermore, I was always against drafting an undersized power forward number 1 overall. His size is always going to be a problem.

2) Next years class won't be great out of the gate? Well, it won't take a whole hell of a lot to be better than what we saw from Bennett, will it. In fact, I'm going to go waaaaaaaaay out on a limb and say that the first five picks in this draft will all have better rookie season than Bennett just had.

3) Is Aaron Gordon going to be better than Bennett? Well, I certainly think so. Again, the bar has been set pretty low. But I like your argument. "Doubt that." Good. He's a more fluid athlete who is leaps and bounds better off the dribble and has a much higher ceiling on defense.

4) Who was my number 1 choice? I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. I'm not criticizing the drafting of Bennett. I'm just admitting he, along with most of that draft, isn't very good and the mere fact we picked him shouldn't keep us from upgrading the position this year. Listen, had we taken Otto Porter I wouldn't be burying my fucking head in the sand and asking us to steer clear from Jabari Parker or Andrew Wiggins simply because my guy was taken the year before. No, Otto Porter didn't show nearly enough this year for the Wizards to just blindly consider him the future of their SF position. Note, that does NOT mean they made the incorrect draft choice. You compare the pick to the players drafted in the same class.

5) You're obviously here because of an attachment to Bennett. I'm not. I want what's best for this basketball team, not Anthony Bennett.

You're making a lot of weird assumptions. I'm a huge Gordon fan. I have no particular attachment to Bennett and never talked about him pre draft. So I'm operating from a position with as little bias as possible while still being a Cavs fan. Rchfld is the same way. I won't stand up for too many of the other jamokes on here though.

That said, the real difference between you and I is that I'm using my basketball knowledge to project and you refuse to acknowledge anything but tangible production. I see physical tools that separate Bennett from most PFs in this league. Even when he was grossly out of shape, his quickness and first step were elite for a PF. That's something you refuse to acknowledge because it didn't lead to a bunch of layups. Even when he was grossly out of shape and struggling mentally because of it and the pressure of being #1, his jump shooting mechanics were gorgeous and rock solid for any position, let alone a big. But again you refuse to acknowledge it because he wasn't hitting his jumpers in his injury plagued, sporadic rookie season. Even when he was out of shape, he showed that he could be an absolute brick wall in the post defensively. But you refuse to acknowledge it because he struggled with some guys....like every rookie in the history of ever. I could go on and on.

So no. Stop discrediting people for saying positive things about Bennett by fabricating some narrative about how he's "my guy" and I have some sort of weird bias towards him. The real difference is that you're disregarding traits and skills just because they didn't translate into numbers for a 20 year old PF who was injured all offseason, came in grossly overweight, had the added pressure of being a surprise #1 pick, and was on a team with some serious issues all season.

Some of us are choosing to put some pieces to the puzzle together to predict what this kid will become.

 

[gourimoko]

Rich, the inherent problem with your argument is that it's premised on an arbitrarily small sample. You're discounting most, if not all, of Bennett's NCAA career for the few NBA games where he had a chance to play injured and out of shape.

I think the larger set of data backs chrisrich's point, rather than yours. And I'm not a Bennett fan, nor did I want to draft him.

 

[Zen]

That said, the real difference between you and I is that I'm using my basketball knowledge to project and you refuse to acknowledge anything but tangible production. I see physical tools that separate Bennett from most PFs in this league. Even when he was grossly out of shape, his quickness and first step were elite for a PF.

So for the sake of debate I'm going to just flat out come out and ask this question. It may seem "trollish" but I am being 100% genuine. I suppose there are other things I haven't considered and It would be interesting to hear your thoughts.

Whenever I hear someone talk about his elite first step and quickness I instantly ask myself this question. Why shouldn't he have a quick first step? He is a 6'7 guy being guarded by 6-9 to 6-11 guys on a nightly basis. If he didn't have a quick first step we would be in a huge amount of trouble.

This is my major hangup when I hear about his elite handles, or his elite speed, to me they seem very average for a player of his size, if not sub par. I do see where he explodes to the rim and those plays make me see and realize there is some potential there. My main hangup just keeps going back to the things I see him praised for are things that I think are not abnormal for a player of his size. He is shorter than a lot of starting Small Forwards in the league, including one on our roster.

What I understand is that with his width and center of gravity the HOPE is for him to be able to not have a disadvantage at the PF while exploiting those advantages. but, given the fact that only two players have gotten away with that in the last 30 years I just find it hard to bite.

 

[RebelBballownzu]

so you dont see bennetts potential but you see gordons who put up worse number than bennett did in one his season in college? i guess you could argue the talent but your really grasping for straws when you look at both rpi and sos of 2012 unlv vs 2013 arizona.."better off the dribble" had me laughing. i would argue the only thing gordon can do better than bennett is play D, bennett can dribble and shot pretty damn good for his size, both things gordon cant. gordon is a poor mans blake griffen. My troll comment is based off reading your garbage all year long about bennett, i bet i could go back and find his career high night and i would like to see what you wrote after. prob a bunch of nonsense, i do have a biased towards bennett but dont act like you dont have some motive. you clearly dont like him, you dont care if he was injured/ never in the rotation. you some how didnt see his potential but you see gordons.. makes sense

 

[Zen]

so you dont see bennetts potential but you see gordons who put up worse number than bennett did in one his season in college? i guess you could argue the talent but your really grasping for straws when you look at both rpi and sos of 2012 unlv vs 2013 arizona.."better off the dribble" had me laughing. i would argue the only thing gordon can do better than bennett is play D, bennett can dribble and shot pretty damn good for his size, both things gordon cant. gordon is a poor mans blake griffen. My troll comment is based off reading your garbage all year long about bennett, i bet i could go back and find his career high night and i would like to see what you wrote after. prob a bunch of nonsense, i do have a biased towards bennett but dont act like you dont have some motive. you clearly dont like him, you dont care if he was injured/ never in the rotation. you some how didnt see his potential but you see gordons.. makes sense

brain... aching.... help

 

[Nathan S]

Gordon is a year and a half younger than Bennett was as a freshman...I'm not particularly high on Gordon (he has some serious holes in his game) but that's a significant factor to take into account if we're talking potential.

 

[gourimoko]

So for the sake of debate I'm going to just flat out come out and ask this question. It may seem "trollish" but I am being 100% serious. I suppose there are other things I haven't considered and It would be interesting to hear your thoughts.

Whenever I hear someone talk about his elite first step and quickness I instantly ask myself this question. Why shouldn't he have a quick first step? He is a 6'7 guy being guarded by 6-9 to 6-11 guys on a nightly basis. If he didn't have a quick first step we would be in a huge amount of trouble.

You're using his height to discount the fact that he's an agile PF even though he gives up very little on defense due to that very speed and his wingspan. Further, you can't assert "he has a quick first step," but then counter "why shouldn't he" to negate the fact that he does indeed have superior agility.

This is my major hangup when I hear about his elite handles, or his elite speed, to me they seem very average for a player of his size, if not sub par. I do see where he explodes to the rim and those plays make me see and realize there is some potential there. My main hangup just keeps going back to the things I see him praised for are things that I think are not abnormal for a player of his size. He is shorter than a lot of starting Small Forwards in the league.

Couple things here. The first two sentences are contradictory.

"his elite handles, or his elite speed, they seem very average for a player of his size, if not sub par."

"I do see where he explodes to the rim and those plays make me see and realize there is some potential there."

Which of these do you see? Or is the expectation that he would be a complete product in so few games, being injured and out of shape?

Finally, your conclusion here suggests that size is measured solely by height. To say that Bennett is smaller than Paul George, who happens to be taller, would be a gross miscalculation.

In a basketball sense, Bennett has a frame which allows him to play both big and small, which is ideal in today's NBA as seen by Melo and LeBron who use their size and mobility to dominate traditional forwards.

What I understand is that with his width and center of gravity the HOPE is for him to be able to not have a disadvantage at the PF while exploiting those advantages. but, given the fact that only two players have gotten away with that in the last 30 years I just find it hard to bite.

It's more to do with his strength, as well as his already demonstrated ability to use that to his advantage in both the NCAA and in the very few minutes he's played in the NBA.

The kid has immense potential. I think many are overvaluing what amounts to a lost year due to injury and conditioning. As I see things, it would be like giving Blake Griffin a zero on is averages for games missed in his first year in the NBA.

I think Bennett should get a pass for this last season. Let's see what he can do coming in to next season in shape and well conditioned. Then let's start making some assessments.

 

[Zen]

You're using his height to discount the fact that he's an agile PF even though he gives up very little on defense due to that very speed and his wingspan. Further, you can't assert "he has a quick first step," but then counter "why shouldn't he" to negate the fact that he does indeed have superior agility .

See, I think this is the hope. I also think a lot of people have convinced themselves of this without very much actual evidence. When I watched AB throughout the season I saw numerous times where his height was absolutely a factor. In fact a lot of times he was completely nullified when going for a rebound if the other player got into his body which didn't allowed him to extend for the ball. I guess this is all subjective, I saw it as a hindrance and plenty of people thought he did just fine.

Yes I have seen him explode for some impressive dunks, I think you are taking that comment out of context. What I'm trying to imply is that I believe the vast majority of the fanbase focuses on these plays, rather than his game as a whole when evaluating AB.

One highlight dunk can make people forget about the 4 defensive miscues and two turnovers that happened in the 3 previous minutes.

I agree with your final statement. It is going to be extremely interesting to see how he looks through the summer league and start of next season. A true enigma.

 

[Nathan S]

Regardless of his height and wingspan, my problem with him defensively is that he doesn't seem capable of contesting, let alone blocking, the shots of opposing PFs. In a league where every PF not named Tristan Thompson seems to have a reliable midrange game (or worse, 3-point shot), that's a major problem and I don't see how it's supposed to improve. It's a give and take thing, sort of like Zen was getting at...you gain the advantages that come with being smaller and quicker on the offensive end, but then you suffer the consequences on the defensive end.

 

[Futuredome]

Regardless of his height and wingspan, my problem with him defensively is that he doesn't seem capable of contesting, let alone blocking, the shots of opposing PFs. In a league where every PF not named Tristan Thompson seems to have a reliable midrange game (or worse, 3-point shot), that's a major problem and I don't see how it's supposed to improve. It's a give and take thing, sort of like Zen was getting at...you gain the advantages that come with being smaller and quicker on the offensive end, but then you suffer the consequences on the defensive end.

maybe, but with the "finessing" of the league, not his biggest responsibility. If he can defend the 3 point line and get a center who protects the paint, Bennett will be fine and out produce TT by a large mile.

 

[Nathan S]

maybe, but with the "finessing" of the league, not his biggest responsibility. If he can defend the 3 point line and get a center who protects the paint, Bennett will be fine and out produce TT by a large mile.

...but he can't defend the 3 point line. Defending jump shooters is just not something he can do at all right now. The eye test and the stats agree on that one.

 

[Futuredome]

...but he can't defend the 3 point line. Defending jump shooters is just not something he can do at all right now. The eye test and the stats agree on that one.

I don't agree. I think he can and will. TT can't for the life of him, which is his major problem.

 

[Rich]

so you dont see bennetts potential but you see gordons who put up worse number than bennett did in one his season in college? i guess you could argue the talent but your really grasping for straws when you look at both rpi and sos of 2012 unlv vs 2013 arizona.."better off the dribble" had me laughing. i would argue the only thing gordon can do better than bennett is play D, bennett can dribble and shot pretty damn good for his size, both things gordon cant. gordon is a poor mans blake griffen. My troll comment is based off reading your garbage all year long about bennett, i bet i could go back and find his career high night and i would like to see what you wrote after. prob a bunch of nonsense, i do have a biased towards bennett but dont act like you dont have some motive. you clearly dont like him, you dont care if he was injured/ never in the rotation. you some how didnt see his potential but you see gordons.. makes sense

Anthony Bennett was a really bad basketball player his rookie season. Period. Full Stop.

I'm not willing to pass over big time talent because he's on our team after the season he just had. Period. Full Stop.

It's fucking stupid that this is a controversial position.

 

[Rich]

You're making a lot of weird assumptions. I'm a huge Gordon fan. I have no particular attachment to Bennett and never talked about him pre draft. So I'm operating from a position with as little bias as possible while still being a Cavs fan. Rchfld is the same way. I won't stand up for too many of the other jamokes on here though.

That said, the real difference between you and I is that I'm using my basketball knowledge to project and you refuse to acknowledge anything but tangible production. I see physical tools that separate Bennett from most PFs in this league. Even when he was grossly out of shape, his quickness and first step were elite for a PF. That's something you refuse to acknowledge because it didn't lead to a bunch of layups. Even when he was grossly out of shape and struggling mentally because of it and the pressure of being #1, his jump shooting mechanics were gorgeous and rock solid for any position, let alone a big. But again you refuse to acknowledge it because he wasn't hitting his jumpers in his injury plagued, sporadic rookie season. Even when he was out of shape, he showed that he could be an absolute brick wall in the post defensively. But you refuse to acknowledge it because he struggled with some guys....like every rookie in the history of ever. I could go on and on.

So no. Stop discrediting people for saying positive things about Bennett by fabricating some narrative about how he's "my guy" and I have some sort of weird bias towards him. The real difference is that you're disregarding traits and skills just because they didn't translate into numbers for a 20 year old PF who was injured all offseason, came in grossly overweight, had the added pressure of being a surprise #1 pick, and was on a team with some serious issues all season.

Some of us are choosing to put some pieces to the puzzle together to predict what this kid will become.

Oh no, I was watching the court when he was on it. I saw a guy whose jumper was HIGHLY overrated coming out of college. I saw a guy who couldn't dribble a basketball. And this, by the way, should have worried everyone. His ball-handling skills were legit worse than Thompson's this year. I saw a guy who lacked any sort of go-to post move and largely struggled when he caught the ball with his back to the basket.

And the problem is he was drafted as an offensive force. When he was drafted there wasn't a fucking person on the board who liked the pick but was cautioning "it's gonna take some time before his jumper becomes reliable. He's not a good ball-handler yet." Nah, his jumper was supposed to be good from day 1. Wasn't good all season. His ability to beat people off the dribble was supposed to be good from day 1. Man did he struggle doing it.

As for his "elite" speed....the singular play that sticks out in my mind and will continue to do so was Rashard Lewis just blowing by him from the 3-point line to get an open layup. For a dude with elite speed, he sure as fuck looked slow most of the season.

EDIT: I'm done with it. He's not playing anymore. Nothing more can be learned by typing the same shit for the next 4 months. He either comes out right away in summer league and proves me wrong, or he doesn't.