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Are the Cavs in danger of becoming irrelevant in this town?

Discussion in 'Cavs Talk' started by udilicious42584, Dec 10, 2012.

  1. udilicious42584

    udilicious42584 Trade Deadline Safari

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    Hey everyone,

    I've been away from these parts for a while, been crazy with work stuff and other things. I had to jump on here real quick and just speak my mind about how I feel about the Cavaliers. This website is the true haven for the most knowledgeable and passionate of Cavs fans out there. There is no better forum to air your thoughts...

    I've been a Cavs fan for a long time, but I'm really really having a hard time staying focused on the team this season. There were days early in the post LeBron era where I'd still watch every second of every game. I'd try to go to as many home games as possible to support the team. This season though I'm just fed up... I find myself turning the games off early, missing the games completely, and even have left a home game early.

    It's hard to really point the finger at one primary thing, but it's a collective melting pot of factors that I think is turning me off right now: The frustrating injuries, this assembled roster that is D-Leaguesque, A head coach that's getting a free ride, the blown leads, the offensive droughts, Tristan Thompson's regression, C.J. Miles being our FA signing who has been a complete bust, the management and ownership group being passive, dormant and not as passionate as I thought they would be at this point of the game. I'm sorry, I know Dan Gilbert is great, he's done a lot for Cleveland in and out of sports, but I expected so much more at this time of the rebuild. It just seems that no one is being held accountable anymore, the constant losing is okay, and we'll keep rebuilding through the draft (which is always a gamble).

    Combine all that with the recent Browns success, their new ownership and their new direction, and it's increasingly harder to take the Cavs seriously or trust that their success is right around the corner. Even with Kyrie healthy the Cavs seem so far away. An injury to him like we see and this team is devasted. Help me out guys, tell me it'll be okay, because right now I think the Cavs are becoming an after thought around here, and that's not the way it's supposed to be.
     
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  2. shoes22

    shoes22 All-Star

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    I don't know. Your argument would make sense if we were being beaten by blowouts every game. We're still losing, but the games are all within striking distance for the most part, and that makes it bearable in my mind. It's hard to keep interest when by most accounts this is another tanking season, but I will say that when Kyrie plays, the games are at least watchable.

    The reason I (and you) should watch is to see if our young guys are getting better. I'm looking to track the development of TT, Zeller and ESPECIALLY Dion, and compare them to the other rookies in the league. When we play teams like Detroit or Minnesota, it's fun to see how our young guys match up with their young guys. When we play teams like the Clippers, it's fun to see Kyrie go up against Chris Paul and other elite PGs in the league and succeed. Another storyline is seeing whether Anderson Varejao can maintain his all-star caliber season. There's a stretch where I was watching just to see how long AV could keep his 15+ rebounds and double-double streak going. So there are plenty of things to be excited about.

    There are also signs indicating that this is the last year of the tank. Next year we should have at least 4 top 5 draft picks on the roster, and I believe our "D-League bench" as you put it, is destined for an overhaul. Boobie, Casspi, CJ Miles and Donald Sloan are ALL not under contract for next year, and will most likely be replaced. The Cavs are in a great financial position to improve the roster, and can and will add a number of pieces to improve the team.

    Keep the faith.
     
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  3. No Offense

    No Offense Towel Waver

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    We need to be patient. Simply put, to expect wins this early in the rebuild is an unfair burden on the team.

    The front office has made decisions that I am not crazy about, but I am not ready to give up on this team.

    I honestly do not know what you expect. I wish that the Cavs had more players that were more obvious building blocks for the future, but they don't. The rebuild is still young, which is why I am not going to sit here and get angry when the Cavs blow a lead or leave a game early.
     
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  4. gregdawg

    gregdawg Situational Stopper

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    it's been said before: welcome to the OKC model. people forget that after the sonics/thunder drafted Durant, they were terrible for 2-3 seasons before they became decent. then it was another 1 or 2 season before they were championship caliber. it's hard to stomach right now, but at the end of the day this is the only way for a small market team to build - if you're a small market team you have to "play the game" the only way you can, and that means collecting draft picks...which means tanking for a few years. it's sad that this is the only strategy available to a small market team, but that's the way it is. The front office made it clear in the off season that they are in passive mode and are content to tank another season. it would be one thing if they legitimately tried to add players and failed, or if they made bad decisions...but it was pretty obvious they didn't even try. they knew this team would stink and that's what they wanted - more draft picks. I'm fine with it for now. it's the reality of being in a small market NBA town. I'll just avoid watching this team for now like I did the past 2 seasons and come back when they're finally ready to show me a product worthy of my attention.

    I think this coming offseason is when Grant finally starts making moves. they knew they needed 3 drafts to get this rebuild started, and they've stuck to that schedule.
     
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  5. Giambiwannabe7

    Giambiwannabe7 Sixth Man

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    Well, imo, this is approaching the crossroads. We are about a short season away from approaching the proverbial fork in the road. We've had this discussion in some other threads. After this upcoming offseason, we will have(more than likely) 4 top 10 picks(and possibly 4 top 5 picks depending on how the ping pong balls bounce), at least one more top 20 pick(and maybe another depending on the LAL) pick. There comes a point in time where the picks either pay off and you start seeing results or you have to seriously question the ship's captain(and not Gilbert, but CG).

    My contention is that we need to start being more aggressive with FA's and RFA's. This is CLE, we are going to have to overpay a bit. It just is what it is. The draft is a crap shoot. At least with FA's we have a better idea of what we're going after. No matter what fans may think, this is not an OKC rebuild. There is no Kevin Durant coming in the draft. There is no Russ Westbrook. Up to this point, I understand entirely the concept of CJ Miles for one year. Makes sense at this point. But, that's not a recipe you can just continue year after year after year. There has to be a light at the end of the tunnel. A plan is a plan for a reason. There is a means to the end. It's not just a continuous, infinite cycle of tank tank tank.

    Chris Grant's time is coming. This free ride he has enjoyed, albeit an understandable one, is almost over. It's time for results. Next season will be his starting PF's 3rd season. Same for his star PG. Does he keep the league's leading rebounder? Will this past year's 2 #1's continue to grow? Will he be more aggressive with FA's? Does he have any more magic to pull with trades? He's done a passable job so far, but it's within the context of a rebuild. Sooner or later, a rebuild needs to bear fruit in the W column. I think next season is the year where he either veers the way of the Paxson's of the NBA or swings the way of the Presti's.

    Until then, I really think we need to be a little more patient. Let's see what big Z can do for TT. Let's see if KI's injuries are just coincidental and if he can learn to be more of a playmaker. Let's see if Waiter's game can evolve and TZ continues to show he may be a great pick for a mid 1st rounder. The Andy scenarios need to shake out. IMO, a little more patience is required before we get too restless. In the meantime, yes, it is extremely frustrating and some people will jump ship.
     
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  6. Marcus

    Marcus Let's go Cabs!

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    Not hard to see where you're coming from. Losing and rebuilding doesn't make fans.

    That being said, this team really only needs one more draft and to fill out their roster with some free agent signings. They've got much of their core in place already.
     
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  7. MYoung23

    MYoung23 12 Reasons to Post

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    The Cavaliers will always be third in Cleveland. This isnt a basketball town and it never was.

    It's

    1.Browns
    2.Browns
    3.Browns draft
    4. Indians opening day
    5. Indians til the swoon or win
    6. Whatever the Cavaliers are doing.

    The Cavaliers have always had to win to get a buzz here and there are no easy fixes for a team like Cleveland and they have a long, long, way to go.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 10, 2012
  8. shoes22

    shoes22 All-Star

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    The other thing you have to keep in mind is that fans are fickle. During this period of losing, fans will naturally lose interest, and fewer will come to the games. But as soon as more pieces come together and the team starts winning, you regain those same fans you lost and more. There are a ton of people in Cleveland who are Cavs fans today entirely because of LeBron, and he's not even with the team anymore. So while it's frustrating right now, long-term I don't think this is something to worry about.
     
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  9. Birdy89

    Birdy89 Sixth Man

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    No they weren't. That is a complete lie.

    They won 50 games his 3rd year (Westbrook's second) and made the playoffs.

    Then they were in the Conference finals his 4th year.

    Next year is Kyrie's 3rd year, and Dion's 2nd.
     
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  10. tsteele316

    tsteele316 In the Rotation

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    attendance numbers show this to be quite false.
     
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  11. AuxiliaryPie

    AuxiliaryPie Real Cavs Fan

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    In accordance with the fickle fan statement, I've tried to watch every cavs game post-lebron and without Kyrie and Dion playing i just dont care about the game even a quarter as much as when they are on. Not because i dont love Andy, TZ, Boobie and even TT, but because everyone else on the court is completely expendable and theres no connection with them when you know theyre only in place to support the tank (which is debatable, but i think most people agree sloan, CJ, etc are not long term answers). When Kyrie and Dion are back in the lineup youll see a lot more fan interaction/appreciation, IMO the starting 5 is who the fans associate with. Plus the common fan doesnt realize how damn close 90% of our loses are, they just see the record.
     
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  12. MalTalm

    MalTalm Formerly known as Talm

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    Its hard to say. When both Waiters and Kyrie are out, the team is almost unbearable to watch (for me anyway). I don't need to see winning, but I want to see some hope in the future. If Kyrie can stay healthy, he could be the next Chris Paul. Dion's ceiling is murky and heavily debated on these boards, but he looks like an NBA player on the floor, which is enough to give me hope for his long term potential. I love seeing those guys play and grow. I'm even more okay with Thompson than many on here, but he's at least 2 more years away from becoming a player with enough polish to give a consistent performance for a long stretch of games. There's a lot of "ifs", but there's no doubt this team isn't playoff calibur, and in a league where one great player is the difference between a lottery team and a championship, I'd rather see the Cavs follow Pat Shurmur's gameplan: Lots of losses, but lots of progress. The Cavs need to lead the league in progress.
     
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  13. shoes22

    shoes22 All-Star

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    Not only that, our starting 5 was incredibly effective together. Before the injuries, the lineup of Kyrie-Dion-Gee-TT-Andy had the best collective +/- of any starting 5 in the NBA. That's crazy to think about.
     
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  14. KI4MVP

    KI4MVP formerly LJ4MVP

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    No it's not. Not even close. We built a finals team with one lottery pick.
     
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  15. Birdy89

    Birdy89 Sixth Man

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    One big thing about the lack of connection you speak of between the fans and the team is largely a product of Kyrie's inability to stay on the floor.

    Whether it is part of the tank or not, fans have a harder time connecting with a player who misses as many games as Kyrie does. They may be fluke injuries, but until he can stay healthy for a few seasons in a row he is going to have that "when is he going to be injured next" cloud over him.

    In the early Lebron years when you bought a ticket to the game you knew he was playing and you'd get to see him. It is harder to invest in Kyrie like that because it is stop and go where he plays, then he's out, plays then he out. He missed most of his only year at Duke, then a decent chunk of last year, and now half of this season so far.

    I know he isn't trying to get injured, but as the center piece of the rebuild if they want fans to get emotionally invested in this team he has to find a way to start being healthy.

    Consistency counts for something, especially when you are trying to sell fringe fans on coming down to watch what has otherwise been a bad team.
     
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  16. MYoung23

    MYoung23 12 Reasons to Post

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    Historically, it's quite accurate in terms of interest in this city.
     
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  17. KI4MVP

    KI4MVP formerly LJ4MVP

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    edit: nevermind
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2012
  18. gregdawg

    gregdawg Situational Stopper

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    cool story bro....so i was off by one year, don't have a cow. my general point is still the same - after Durant, they were still bad for a while before they were good.
     
  19. Jon

    Jon ~

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    The team was almost watchable with Kyrie and Dion healthy. Without them, it's pretty brutal.
     
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  20. gregdawg

    gregdawg Situational Stopper

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    heh...sorry, but that was a special circumstance...Lebron is a Jordan/Kobe level player. A once-in-a-generation guy like that can carry a team by himself. We don't have that level of player in this current rebuild. Besides, that Cavs finals team was a fluke. They had no business getting to the finals with that garbage roster. Come on - the starting lineup had Larry Hughes and Drew Gooden, along with Boobie and Sasha Pavlovic playing over 30 minutes per game...I wouldn't call that "building a finals team"....more like they drafted Lebron, added some garbage to the roster, and got lucky. The reason that team got to the finals had nothing to do with what they "built"...it was a lot of luck and a perfect storm of circumstances that allowed them to squeak through - the East being terrible beyond belief that year, combined with Lebron and Boobie going into god-mode against Detroit.
     

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