Are the Cavs in danger of becoming irrelevant in this town?

[Chris]

No they weren't. That is a complete lie.

They won 50 games his 3rd year (Westbrook's second) and made the playoffs.

Then they were in the Conference finals his 4th year.

Next year is Kyrie's 3rd year, and Dion's 2nd.

Too bad Irving isn't even in the same stratosphere as Durant.

 

[Simon]

People need patience right now. We are 18 months into our rebuild. Like Dan Gilbert said on twitter, it started when we drafted Kyrie.

We are making progress, we have been in every single game, competed hard, etc. Even with Kyrie out we still competed. We almost beat the Heat without Kyrie.

We are making progress, but this is going to be a long process.

 

[tsteele316]

Historically, it's quite accurate in terms of interest in this city.

fan apathy from 20 years ago has zero bearing on the situation and nothing to do with the fact that a terrible cavs team has generated far more attendance and higher attendance % the last two years than a garbage indians team, who was actually in first place 3 months into the season. the numbers simply don't support the premise.

 

[czvo]

Hey everyone,

I've been away from these parts for a while, been crazy with work stuff and other things. I had to jump on here real quick and just speak my mind about how I feel about the Cavaliers. This website is the true haven for the most knowledgeable and passionate of Cavs fans out there. There is no better forum to air your thoughts...

I've been a Cavs fan for a long time, but I'm really really having a hard time staying focused on the team this season. There were days early in the post LeBron era where I'd still watch every second of every game. I'd try to go to as many home games as possible to support the team. This season though I'm just fed up... I find myself turning the games off early, missing the games completely, and even have left a home game early.

It's hard to really point the finger at one primary thing, but it's a collective melting pot of factors that I think is turning me off right now: The frustrating injuries, this assembled roster that is D-Leaguesque, A head coach that's getting a free ride, the blown leads, the offensive droughts, Tristan Thompson's regression, C.J. Miles being our FA signing who has been a complete bust, the management and ownership group being passive, dormant and not as passionate as I thought they would be at this point of the game. I'm sorry, I know Dan Gilbert is great, he's done a lot for Cleveland in and out of sports, but I expected so much more at this time of the rebuild. It just seems that no one is being held accountable anymore, the constant losing is okay, and we'll keep rebuilding through the draft (which is always a gamble).

Combine all that with the recent Browns success, their new ownership and their new direction, and it's increasingly harder to take the Cavs seriously or trust that their success is right around the corner. Even with Kyrie healthy the Cavs seem so far away. An injury to him like we see and this team is devasted. Help me out guys, tell me it'll be okay, because right now I think the Cavs are becoming an after thought around here, and that's not the way it's supposed to be.

Just three wins away from a .500 season! Really setting the bar high there!


But in all seriousness, its a slow process. Its very rare for a team to go through a complete overhaul the way the Cavs did, then suddenly be back in the playoff hunt two years later. Quit focusing on wins and losses, and spend more time on how the team looks. From what I've seen, when healthy, this team is WORLDS better than last year.

This team won't be in the playoffs this year, and its likely they won't be there next year anyway. Its just what happens when you rebuild through youth. Vets win in the NBA. Give them time to gel. The WORST thing they can do at this point is start throwing money around left and right, bringing in any player that may make them marginally better.

 

[Chris]

People need patience right now. We are 18 months into our rebuild. Like Dan Gilbert said on twitter, it started when we drafted Kyrie.

We are making progress, we have been in every single game, competed hard, etc. Even with Kyrie out we still competed. We almost beat the Heat without Kyrie.

We are making progress, but this is going to be a long process.

People already talking about trading Kyrie Irving. Gonna be a long rebuild..

 

[Birdy89]

Although it won't be popular, I would give Irving one more year to stay healthy. If he can't, statistically he never will. While it would be great to have him when he is healthy, eventually the cavs will want to contend for some kind of playoff spot with the hope of winning. If you can't count on your best player to be there, can he even be your best player? If after next year he misses significant time again, I would quietly shop him and see what is offered. No, you probably wouldn't get a comparable PG, but there are serviceable ones in upcoming drafts, and if your offered a similar talent at a position of need for him, plus certainly picks, I don't see how the cavs can avoid this route if he can't stay on the floor.

There is no way you trade him.

However, if he can't finish out this season without missing time again and then play at least 76 games next year it might be time to draft another point guard high in the draft because at that point you have to start building in the fact he will miss time every year, and can't be caught short.

At least that way you get the benefit of having him when he is healthy, but aren't having the franchise's success hinge on whether or not he gets a hang nail and has to miss a month of action.

These next 2 years are pivotal in that respect for how we build going forward. You don't trade him though.

 

[Jon]

Jon, with KI & DW I think they are definitely watchable. I think they are almost watchable now, although still pretty brutal (AV, Pargo, Zeller, TT & Gee are the guys I focus in on).

It's all relative. I assume fans on this board have a much higher threshold of pain than the typical person around town who might pay for a ticket if they felt there'd be something fun to see, and a possible win to enjoy.

One of the most important things for a young team to do is to learn how to protect home court, because for the ticket buying fans .... attending a win is always fun.

If we can get healthy and get back on track - it would help a lot, but without Kyrie the team is nearly helpless/hopeless. They don't have enough firepower to compete when the games really count ... (aka the last 5 minutes).

 

[beefstew]

The Cavaliers will always be third in Cleveland. This isnt a basketball town and it never was.

It's

1.Browns
2.Browns
3.Browns draft
4. Indians opening day
5. Indians til the swoon or win
6. Whatever the Cavaliers are doing.

The Cavaliers have always had to win to get a buzz here and there are no easy fixes for a team like Cleveland and they have a long, long, way to go.

Strongly disagree with that, Northeast Ohio was Cavaliers crazy during the LeBron Era. Nobody gave a damn about any other Cleveland team then but the die hards.

 

[sammyvine]

People need patience right now. We are 18 months into our rebuild. Like Dan Gilbert said on twitter, it started when we drafted Kyrie.

We are making progress, we have been in every single game, competed hard, etc. Even with Kyrie out we still competed. We almost beat the Heat without Kyrie.

We are making progress, but this is going to be a long process.

people need to stop comparing with OKC. They drafted Durant, Westbrook, Harden, & Ibaka. You can say they were lucky to get Durant as Oden was seen as the definite number 1 pick at the time, but you have to say the Westbrook and Ibaka picks were smart. Everybody thought Westbrook would be a bust and today he is probably a top 10 player in the league. Sam Presti sure knows how to run a team.

With the Cavs they only have Irving who looks like a star. Apart from that theres no Wetsbrook, and no Ibaka.
TBF to the cavs the drafts that they have had high picks hasnt been deep but the Waiters pick was awful. No way was that guy a number 4 pick.
I think you would have been much better with Andre Drummond or even Harison Barnes. Those two both have higher ceilings than Waiters.

Waiters ceiling is a nba player level. Drummond and Barnes can be all stars

 

[Giambiwannabe7]

fan apathy from 20 years ago has zero bearing on the situation and nothing to do with the fact that a terrible cavs team has generated far more attendance and higher attendance % the last two years than a garbage indians team, who was actually in first place 3 months into the season. the numbers simply don't support the premise.

I tend to agree with the sentiment here. People were packing the stadium for years when the Browns came back. This was, and still is in many ways, a Browns town. But, people stopped belieiving in ownership. Randy was more interested in soccer than he was his Dad's football team. And people started resenting what they saw as absentee ownership...the results led to what is now a half full stadium.

People resent the Dolan group, as well. They half ass everything. We want a real investing of the on field product, yet what we get is a FO that seemingly has daily think tanks on what new and exciting promotion will be bring the faithful back. Doesn't work that way. Invest that time in learning how to draft properly and dollar hot dog nights won't be your biggest pull...your players will. Noone expects them to spend with the Yanks, but they could at least draft like they have a clue. Without good drafting, this team is bound for the scrap heap, minus a fluke year or two with a bunch of overachievers giving false hope.

People believe in Dan Gilbert. He has already made himself a significant part of the town. The plan, as diagramed, at least has some teeth. Now, can CG pull it off? I dunno. But, I do know he has the advantage of a salary cap. He has the ability to go over the cap, with an owner who will spend when he is told to. The tribe's brass does not have those advantages. So, there's very few fans who will blame DG for any of this. So, in the end, at this point of the build, I think DG still has a lot of faith with the fanbase....and deservedly so.

 

[Huber.]

The Cavs are relevant? Seriously, they aren't relevant now so how can the become irrelevant? I could listen to 5 hours of Cleveland sports radio and not one caller would call in wanting to talk about the Cavs. The only thing that gets mentioned by the radio host is who they are playing that night. As soon as the first game vs Miami in Cleveland (the last time we were on national tv) was over they became irrelevant and will continue until they are title contenders again. As for the Indians vs Cavs being the far distant 2nd, people may not go to the games because they think that will get them a new owner but they certainly get mentioned in Cleveland more than the Cavs.

 

[Futuredome]

people need to stop comparing with OKC. They drafted Durant, Westbrook, Harden, & Ibaka. You can say they were lucky to get Durant as Oden was seen as the definite number 1 pick at the time, but you have to say the Westbrook and Ibaka picks were smart. Everybody thought Westbrook would be a bust and today he is probably a top 10 player in the league. Sam Presti sure knows how to run a team.

With the Cavs they only have Irving who looks like a star. Apart from that theres no Wetsbrook, and no Ibaka.
TBF to the cavs the drafts that they have had high picks hasnt been deep but the Waiters pick was awful. No way was that guy a number 4 pick.
I think you would have been much better with Andre Drummond or even Harison Barnes. Those two both have higher ceilings than Waiters.

Waiters ceiling is a nba player level. Drummond and Barnes can be all stars

Barnes ceiling is a NBA level player. Why even make such a poor post. You didn't even try.

 

[Ohio]

No.

 

[MalTalm]

Although it won't be popular, I would give Irving one more year to stay healthy. If he can't, statistically he never will. While it would be great to have him when he is healthy, eventually the cavs will want to contend for some kind of playoff spot with the hope of winning. If you can't count on your best player to be there, can he even be your best player? If after next year he misses significant time again, I would quietly shop him and see what is offered. No, you probably wouldn't get a comparable PG, but there are serviceable ones in upcoming drafts, and if your offered a similar talent at a position of need for him, plus certainly picks, I don't see how the cavs can avoid this route if he can't stay on the floor.

Irving doesn't have recurring injuries, so he isn't "injury prone." I'm not sure what statistics you are referring to, but every statistical analysis on injuries I'm familiar with only deal with recurring injuries. A finger injury isn't correlated to a future shoulder injury, for instance. The biggest issue Irving faces is how hard he plays, and how hard he drives to the basket. He's Wade-like in his desire to forfeit his body for a basket.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

people need to stop comparing with OKC. They drafted Durant, Westbrook, Harden, & Ibaka. You can say they were lucky to get Durant as Oden was seen as the definite number 1 pick at the time, but you have to say the Westbrook and Ibaka picks were smart. Everybody thought Westbrook would be a bust and today he is probably a top 10 player in the league. Sam Presti sure knows how to run a team.

With the Cavs they only have Irving who looks like a star. Apart from that theres no Wetsbrook, and no Ibaka.
TBF to the cavs the drafts that they have had high picks hasnt been deep but the Waiters pick was awful. No way was that guy a number 4 pick.
I think you would have been much better with Andre Drummond or even Harison Barnes. Those two both have higher ceilings than Waiters.

Waiters ceiling is a nba player level. Drummond and Barnes can be all stars

Where did this false narrative of "everybody thought Westbrook would be a bust" come from? He was a consensus top 5 player in the draft. In fact he was 3rd or 4th on most respected big boards. ESPN, for one, loved the pick. So did most media outlets. They also loved the Ibaka pick. OKC received one of the highest draft grades from nearly every "expert" immediately after that draft. OKC made the picks and they deserve credit. But they dont need people rewriting history to make the picks seem like some sort of out of the blue, legendary type picks.