• Changing RCF's index page, please click on "Forums" to access the forums.

Cavs (absent) Defense (Lloyd/ABJ)

Do Not Sell My Personal Information

wuck

Hustling on the inside
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Apr 8, 2007
Messages
20,887
Reaction score
57,106
Points
148
Some excerpts from Jason Lloyd's writeups after the road trip:

Final thoughts: Nets 114, Cavs 101
By Jason Lloyd

The Cavs' defense has been atrocious all season (theoretically correctable). So has the bench (not so easy to fix).

Scott grew tired of the bench's woes a few games ago and began shuffling the rotation, although it really didn't do any good. He has pounding the same defensive philosophies for the last three years, but nothing seems to be setting in.

So is it a coaching problem or a personnel problem? Probably a little of both.

The Cavs presently have the league's worst defense based on shooting percentage. Opponents are making 51 percent of their shots -- and the figure was even higher on this road trip (52 percent).

Scott's teams have rarely been good defensively over the last seven years. Excluding his 2009-10 season in New Orleans, since he was fired just nine games in, Scott's teams have ranked in the top 10 in opponents' shooting percentage once in the last seven years.

His Nets teams were very good defensively, but his Hornets teams were typically average. His Cavs teams have been atrocious.

The Cavs have ranked 27th in the league in defensive field goal percentage both of Scott's years in charge. Improving defensively has been the focus of this team since summer league, yet somehow the Cavs are worse.

It's still incredibly early, but no team has gone a whole season allowing an opponent to shoot better than 50 percent in 16 years. Celtics opponents shot 50 percent during the 1996-97 season, and not surprisingly, the Celtics won only 15 games.

The Cavs still don't defend the pick and roll the way Scott would like, often going behind (or under) screens instead of in front of the screener (over the screen). They fail to box out on missed shots, allowing easy putbacks. And they too often chase the ball and lose their man defensively.

All of it would seem to be easily fixed, but the Cavs have failed to do it for two full seasons and they're off to a lousy start in Year 3. Tristan Thompson was drafted to be a defensive presence, but he has been mediocre this year.

Scouts have lamented Irving's lack of defense since he entered the league, and Irving conceded Tuesday he's playing at about a C level defensively. If he were being honest, Scott might grade him even lower.

...

The bigger concern right now is the defense. There has been zero improvement, only regression. If it doesn't get any better, this team has no chance of competing against even the middle-of-the-pack teams in the NBA.

...

Scott was furious with the defensive effort, which allowed the Nets to score 114 points and shoot 55 percent when they began the night averaging 93 points and shooting 43 percent.

Opponents shot better than 50 percent from the floor in five of the six games on this trip, which is why Scott summed up the road trip as “terrible.”

“There was nothing there defensively,” Scott said. “We’ve got to get more guys who are going to be competitive and passionate about the defensive end. Right now we’ve got three: Boobie [Daniel] Gibson, Alonzo Gee and Anderson Varejao. We’ve got to get other guys to join into the party. It’s as simple as that.”

...

The fact that Scott left Irving off his list of those playing well defensively was telling. Scouts have been lamenting Irving’s defensive effort since the start of his career. Irving recently conceded in a recent interview his defense last season was lousy, but vowed this year would be different. Told of Scott’s comments, Irving agreed.

“I’m probably a C right now,” Irving said. “Maybe I do need to climb on board.”

...

Scott has complained a lot about the Cavs’ defensive effort over most of this trip. Now that they don’t have another game until Saturday, the majority of the focus in practice the next couple of days will be on the defensive end.

“We’ve got three more days before our next game,” Scott said. “I can promise you we will work on it a hell of a lot the next three days. A hell of a lot.”
 
Our team defense relies way too much on over helping. Sure it creates some turnovers but it often leads to multiple defenders being out of place and wide open shots for the offense
 
Boobie brings the intensity, alright. But if he is against a SG who is 3 to 5 inches bigger than him then it will be all for naught (Joe Johnson/ Rip H/ Kevin Martin).
 
I mean Kyrie has gotta be the 1st. If Kyrie does it I guarantee other guys will. This is his team and idk if he knows but the guys look up to him. It tells you what kinds leadership we have when both our vets bring it but no one cares. This is a new team......we need its new leader to go all out on D.....shooting 50% as a team is something very bad for us man. I don't think y'all understand what that means.....At 50% were basically not playing any D
 
Do people really expect a 20 year old to come into the league and in less than 82 games be able to lock down Russell Westbrook and Deron Williams?

It doesn't work like that. Scott can demand anything he wants but 20 year olds are often bad defenders in the NBA.
 
I said this in the Kyrie thread, but his game yesterday was the most discouraging I can remember. We all know he can hit Andy on the pick-n-roll, but last night was just hot-dogging. He coupled that with an albatross of a defensive showing and I wanted to throw up.
 
Do people really expect a 20 year old to come into the league and in less than 82 games be able to lock down Russell Westbrook and Deron Williams?

It doesn't work like that. Scott can demand anything he wants but 20 year olds are often bad defenders in the NBA.

Our team defense relies way too much on over helping. Sure it creates some turnovers but it often leads to multiple defenders being out of place and wide open shots for the offense

Boobie brings the intensity, alright. But if he is against a SG who is 3 to 5 inches bigger than him then it will be all for naught (Joe Johnson/ Rip H/ Kevin Martin).

I said this in the Kyrie thread, but his game yesterday was the most discouraging I can remember. We all know he can hit Andy on the pick-n-roll, but last night was just hot-dogging. He coupled that with an albatross of a defensive showing and I wanted to throw up.

You can see Waiters visibly improving defensively. You often see opponents just sitting wide open with irving getting maneuvered out of position by the teams offense like a pinball machine.

Irvings defense is the main by product of his lack of college time but he is way below average defender for a 20 year old guard if thats where you are setting the bar.

Gibson 6'3 size really hasnt been a detriment. we can only hope to get to that because that would me the rest of the team was actually taking the time to defend properly.

Scott has also critisized th defense for over helping. typically coaches dont make comments like that when working by design.
 
Do people really expect a 20 year old to come into the league and in less than 82 games be able to lock down Russell Westbrook and Deron Williams?

It doesn't work like that. Scott can demand anything he wants but 20 year olds are often bad defenders in the NBA.

Do I expect him to be a lock down defender at 20? Of course not. Do I expect him to at least TRY on the defensive end? Hell yes I do.

He doesn't even try to play defense most of the game. He constantly will just be standing around or when he gets caught in a screen give up on the opponent. He's even had a few plays that he hasn't bothered coming back to play defense, just hung out at half court waiting for the rest of the team to take care of it.
 
Interesting..some players are very good defensively coming out of school. Some aren't.
The team as constructed isn't very good defensively but defense is a mindset.
U have to want to play it and stop your man.
Sure these guys will be taught to play it, but will they want to?
But even the vets(bigs) on the team aren't good defensively...cept AV.
 
Do people really expect a 20 year old to come into the league and in less than 82 games be able to lock down Russell Westbrook and Deron Williams?

It doesn't work like that. Scott can demand anything he wants but 20 year olds are often bad defenders in the NBA.

I know, it blows my damn mind. Our 2nd year pg just dropped a career high of points in a game, is like 3rd or 4th in the whole NBA in scoring, and all people can focus on is his defensive shortcomings. He has the ability to be an adequate defender.....so why don't we give him time to develop it before we shit on him?
 
I said this in the Kyrie thread, but his game yesterday was the most discouraging I can remember. We all know he can hit Andy on the pick-n-roll, but last night was just hot-dogging. He coupled that with an albatross of a defensive showing and I wanted to throw up.

If that was his most discouraging game you've ever seen from Irving, than I have no idea what to tell you. Expecting players to have complete games on both ends after the 8th game of the second season is terribly silly. If this fan base can't appreciate Irving's game right now, then you've never seen a young star.
 
If that was his most discouraging game you've ever seen from Irving, than I have no idea what to tell you. Expecting players to have complete games on both ends after the 8th game of the second season is terribly silly. If this fan base can't appreciate Irving's game right now, then you've never seen a young star.

Fact is I don't think we've ever seen a point guard who can score like Kyrie can. The guy has scoring title potential, and not just that, but scoring title potential on elite shooting efficiency. Some appreciation has to come out of that.
 
I know, it blows my damn mind. Our 2nd year pg just dropped a career high of points in a game, is like 3rd or 4th in the whole NBA in scoring, and all people can focus on is his defensive shortcomings.

Well, this article is specifically about the team's defense, so focusing on Irving's defense seems completely fair.

He has the ability to be an adequate defender.....so why don't we give him time to develop it before we shit on him?

As has been pointed out by others, the issue seems to be less his ability to be an adequate defender than his willingness to work at it. From the article:

“I’m probably a C right now,” Irving said. “Maybe I do need to climb on board.”

"Maybe"? I don't think there's really any maybe about it. Now, nobody is saying they want to get rid of Irving, or denying his talent on the offensive end. But there isn't anything wrong with holding off on his beatification until he shows a willingness to work defensively. As great as LBJ was offensively, even he got regularly criticized early in his career for a lack of defensive intensity. And deservedly so. So why should pointing out Irving's lack of effort on the defensive end be off limits?

FWIW, I hope part of his problem is the energy he burns on the offensive end, and he coasts on the defensive end because he can't be going that speed on both ends of the court constantly. If that's the case, then getting him some offensive help should help him improve more on the defensive end.
 
Last edited:
Most notably with young teams like the Cavaliers, defense can really be negatively effected as long road trips wind down. The absence of good practice time, fatigue,... it's not something unexpected. Our defense was abysmal as this road trip wound down, and I'm sure will be getting addressed in a big way now that we are back home and can re-establish a practice schedule condusive to eliminating lots of the issues present. Kyrie has got to develop some level of resistance or he will not reach the great potential he has. He will be th4e best offensive point in the league, but must become at least adequate defensively..
 

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Video

Episode 3-13: "Backup Bash Brothers"

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Spotify

Episode 3:11: "Clipping Bucks."
Top