Cavs Training Camp (roster down to 15)

[Sirius]

Well in the local Israeli league, which is not a great league whatsoever his stats where:
13 games 20.1 Minutes 7.4 Pts 73.1% FT 4.2 DefR 1.3 OfR

In 2012, Blatt was excited about Thomas coming into Maccabi TA because of his athleticism and apparent upside. When he let Thomas go only 4 months later, his diagnosis was that Thomas was too young in terms of his game as well as mentally and has infact become a distraction to the team. Maybe Blatt sees some chance that Thomas has developed and matured during the past 18 months.

I think Thomas has good instincts and some skills on defense and is a rigorous strength program away from being able to contribute to the defensive rotation of a good NBA team.

 

[kovanovich]

On Thomas, all I can say is that The Bullshit Whisperer reported after the trade that the Cavs actually liked him and might keep him. I didn't believe The Bullshit Whisperer at the time, but who's to say?

On the face of it, I found that assertion odd once it became known that his relationship with Blatt wasn't great.

Thomas' rebounding and shot blocking numbers are solid from the D-League, for what that's worth. His NBA numbers came in so few minutes that it's hard to make much of them. But if he can finish dunks that's really all the offense he would have to provide.

On Powell, have any details on his contract been reported yet? Or at least informed speculation? Douglar, as usual, makes a good point that if the Cavs had not tendered a contract by Sept 6th, they would have risked losing him. So I don't think we should read too much into the fact he signed a contract, or necessarily see this as a signal that he will make the final 15 (unless he got a lot of guaranteed money). Cavs wouldn't want to lose a potential asset. He'll have the opportunity to show what he can do in the more structured environment of training camp.

 

[Cavsengland]

That sentiment has flaws from my perspective you limit yourself defensively but whats more he can start and still do the exact same thing with those young legs. Know what I mean? Why cease the development of a potentially premier high selected draft pick for as of now no reason when all things are compared as a total package.

Dion provides more then the shooting dimension ie a triple threat with young legs.

D offers more than Miller in all aspects of team ball which is why I prefer him starting. Plus that attitude is just what LBJ needs Kyrie was star struck when Bron came back Dion went at him like a man. I still wonder why it came out that Dion was his first contact as is speculated (could be KI just keeps his mouth closed better of course ) You would have thought he was the alpha dog savior of Cleveland born and bred.

The thing is 3 players on the court with driving, shooting, passing, & defensive potential means 3 triple threats for Love to be free to move where ever how ever and feast of dribble drive penetration. He could have a more monumental year than LBJ which I am sure sounds absurd to some. Yet easily possible and am hoping so as well.

JMHO

Nonsense.

 

[batdan]

with 3 spots left, one going to kirk is a must just to have a body that can play center unless the cavs are planning on trading lucas, thomas, murphy or some combination of them for a center.

my expectation for finding a starting caliber center is low, a player that can effectively play backup minutes and can be the off the bench rim protector (birdman's role on the heat) i'll be more than satisfied with.

 

[kovanovich]

To start, Dion has to show he can play off the ball and accept being the 4th option -- no more 26% usage. To be a key player on this team, he has to show he can be more efficient.

 

[VAIN1]

To start, Dion has to show he can play off the ball and accept being the 4th option -- no more 26% usage. To be a key player on this team, he has to show he can be more efficient.

Nonsense.

But KI has shown this already?

You have an assumption that he can't why can't I equally assume he can?

Notice nothing said about Miller and his uni-dimensional game and how he fits other than the stat quo floor spacer stuff. Even LBJ posted his idea of the starting 5 and I did not see Miller in that image. Of course I could be making to much of the instagram and early phone call a week before we all officially knew of his return.

As of now all I see is Miller fan hopefuls using simply spacing as the justification for him starting. Which is cool I just feel differently.

If KI can do so it's easy to conceive Dion doing the same besides who is the alternative to Dion at the 2 with out making opposing SG'S have exceptional pers. vs us?

I agree to disagree and it's far from nonsense JMHO. But that's what TC is for to work all those kinks out.

Should be fun for US CAVS fans.

 

[bobcat22]

But KI has shown this already?

You have an assumption that he can't why can't I equally assume he can?

Notice nothing said about Miller and his uni-dimensional game and how he fits other than the stat quo floor spacer stuff. Even LBJ posted his idea of the starting 5 and I did not see Miller in that image. Of course I could be making to much of the instagram and early phone call a week before we all officially knew of his return.

As of now all I see is Miller fan hopefuls using simply spacing as the justification for him starting. Which is cool I just feel differently.

If KI can do so it's easy to conceive Dion doing the same besides who is the alternative to Dion at the 2 with out making opposing SG'S have exceptional pers. vs us?

I agree to disagree and it's far from nonsense JMHO. But that's what TC is for to work all those kinks out.

Should be fun for US CAVS fans.

So is Popovich an idiot for bringing Manu off the bench all these years? He has Danny Green starting at the 2, who Manu is clearly better than. OKC used Harden in the same role. It's not a sign of disrespect to Dion if he doesn't start, it boosts the second-team offense greatly. If Dion sits, Blatt has the option of benching Kyrie and LeBron together and having Dion run the floor with Love and Marion and Miller/Allen. That is much more attractive to Dion because he can run the offense himself and play with the ball in his hands more. He's at his best right now with the ball in his hands. Once he learns how to play without the ball, then he may be more effective in a starting role.

The reason Miller is best used in a starting role is the efficiency angle on offense. The goal is to get out to an early rhythm offensively. If there isn't any flow or rhythm, that's where Dion comes in and can bring instant scoring. If you start him and the team has a slow start, there is nobody off the bench that can come in and give instant offense. For example, if Dion starts and the Cavs fall behind 15-3, where does Blatt go for offense on the bench? Mike Miller, who can't create his own shot, which forces LeBron and Kyrie to exert more energy offensively, plus he may not fix anything defensively. Now if the Cavs fall behind 15-3 with Waiters on the bench, Dion can provide instant playmaking, scoring and defensive intensity. That ability is why he would be best served as a guy coming off the bench.

 

[VAIN1]

Nonsense.

So is Popovich an idiot for bringing Manu off the bench all these years? He has Danny Green starting at the 2, who Manu is clearly better than. OKC used Harden in the same role. It's not a sign of disrespect to Dion if he doesn't start, it boosts the second-team offense greatly. If Dion sits, Blatt has the option of benching Kyrie and LeBron together and having Dion run the floor with Love and Marion and Miller/Allen. That is much more attractive to Dion because he can run the offense himself and play with the ball in his hands more. He's at his best right now with the ball in his hands. Once he learns how to play without the ball, then he may be more effective in a starting role.

The reason Miller is best used in a starting role is the efficiency angle on offense. The goal is to get out to an early rhythm offensively. If there isn't any flow or rhythm, that's where Dion comes in and can bring instant scoring. If you start him and the team has a slow start, there is nobody off the bench that can come in and give instant offense. For example, if Dion starts and the Cavs fall behind 15-3, where does Blatt go for offense on the bench? Mike Miller, who can't create his own shot, which forces LeBron and Kyrie to exert more energy offensively, plus he may not fix anything defensively. Now if the Cavs fall behind 15-3 with Waiters on the bench, Dion can provide instant playmaking, scoring and defensive intensity. That ability is why he would be best served as a guy coming off the bench.

Wait Bro never said anything about idiotic I was speaking from a tactical sense based on our CAVS roster.

Ray Allen Plus Miller are a wealth of shooting if Jalen Rose's comments on Ray coming to the CAVS.

My sentiment is we run Dion in to the ground with those young legs lol. He looks like he is in spectacular physical condition no?

Plus I love Delly and his bully ball as KI's clear cut choice for back up PG duties. He is just my guy! If you allow Delly min with Ray & Miller we could see his assist numbers on the uptick.

Great thing is there will be many different rotations based on match up I hope.

 

[bobcat22]

Wait Bro never said anything about idiotic I was speaking from a tactical sense based on our CAVS roster.

Ray Allen Plus Miller are a wealth of shooting if Jalen Rose's comments on Ray coming to the CAVS.

My sentiment is we run Dion in to the ground with those young legs lol. He looks like he is in spectacular physical condition no?

Plus I love Delly and his bully ball as KI's clear cut choice for back up PG duties. He is just my guy! If you allow Delly min with Ray & Miller we could see his assist numbers on the uptick.

Great thing is there will be many different rotations based on match up I hope.

You are much more of an optimist than me when it comes to Delly running the point. He can shoot and play D, but I don't want him running the point for this team. Not when you have Kyrie and Dion who both have that capability. It just isn't necessary. If Delly can come in and play off-guard and use his defense to guard point guards, then I have no problem with him playing. In my opinion, if he has to play point guard for extended stretches that is not a good thing.

As for Dion, let's take a look at his closest comparison as far as situations go, James Harden. In 2011-12, it was Harden's 3rd year in the league, same as Waiters this year, and OKC went to the Finals and lost that year to Miami. Harden averaged 16.8 PPG on 49.1% shooting. He only took 10 shots a game and averaged 31 minutes per game in the regular season. Oh and he came off the bench for all but 2 games. Guess who started in his place at the 2 guard? Thabo Sefolosha for 42 games and Daequan Cook.for 22. OKC finished the year 3rd in points per game that year and 2nd in offensive rating. That's with KD at the 3, Westbrook at the point, and Serge Ibaka averaging 9 PPG at the PF spot. Bringing Waiters off the bench would not hurt this team in the least bit, it could only help them.

 

[VAIN1]

You are much more of an optimist than me when it comes to Delly running the point. He can shoot and play D, but I don't want him running the point for this team. Not when you have Kyrie and Dion who both have that capability. It just isn't necessary. If Delly can come in and play off-guard and use his defense to guard point guards, then I have no problem with him playing. In my opinion, if he has to play point guard for extended stretches that is not a good thing.

As for Dion, let's take a look at his closest comparison as far as situations go, James Harden. In 2011-12, it was Harden's 3rd year in the league, same as Waiters this year, and OKC went to the Finals and lost that year to Miami. Harden averaged 16.8 PPG on 49.1% shooting. He only took 10 shots a game and averaged 31 minutes per game in the regular season. Oh and he came off the bench for all but 2 games. Guess who started in his place at the 2 guard? Thabo Sefolosha for 42 games and Daequan Cook.for 22. OKC finished the year 3rd in points per game that year and 2nd in offensive rating. That's with KD at the 3, Westbrook at the point, and Serge Ibaka averaging 9 PPG at the PF spot. Bringing Waiters off the bench would not hurt this team in the least bit, it could only help them.

I will say one sided optimism is not really fair but you are entitled to it and referencing other players in lesser situations as Harden & Ginobli seems a stretch in my book. OKC didn't have our depth in my estimation and the SPURS are a unique animal altogether.

I am curious how your 1st & 2nd teams are arranged if you don't mind? I have given up hope that we will in fact get Satanic Shuttlesworth so I include him in my roster vision.

We aren't that far off on Dion's value as a facilitator which has me so surprised you don't think he could do that same for the starting unit as well. I think his young legs are fresh and I'm not worried about those extra minutes with the 2nd unit also.

But we are so deep if Ray Ray joins us just not fair from a offensive stand point. Defensively I am still saying yikes.

 

[bobcat22]

I will say one sided optimism is not really fair but you are entitled to it and siting other players in lesser situations as Harden & Ginobli seems a stretch in my book. OKC didn't have our depth in my estimation and the SPURS are a unique animal altogether.

I am curious how your 1st & 2nd teams are arranged if you don't mind? I have given up hope that we will in fact get Satanic Shuttlesworth so I include him in my roster vision.

We aren't that far off on Dion's value as a facilitator which has me so surprised you don't think he could do that same for the starting unit as well. I think his young legs are fresh and I'm not worried about those extra minutes with the 2nd unit also.

But we are so deep if Ray Ray joins us just not fair from a offensive stand point. Defensively I am still saying yikes.

Without Ray Allen, this is my starting 5 and the bench.

Starting 5:

PG: Kyrie Irving
SG: Mike Miller
SF: LeBron James
PF: Kevin Love
C: Anderson Varejao

Bench:

Dion Waiters
Matthew Dellavedova
Shawn Marion
Tristan Thompson
Brendan Haywood

Again, it's not that I don't believe in Waiters' role as a facilitator. If I didn't, then I wouldn't want him out there at the end of the game. In my opinion it's just overkill to have him out there at the start of the game with Kyrie and LeBron. Let him work with Kyrie on the bench to establish a rhythm for the end of the game. A Delly and Miller/Allen backcourt will not get you quality looks and making Kyrie or Waiters play more minutes than they need to in the 1st quarter is just dumb. Subbing Dion for Kyrie ensures very little offensive drop-off, whereas subbing Delly for Kyrie could be a dramatic one if you have to take out Waiters too because he's gassed.

 

[VAIN1]

Without Ray Allen, this is my starting 5 and the bench.

Starting 5:

PG: Kyrie Irving
SG: Mike Miller
SF: LeBron James
PF: Kevin Love
C: Anderson Varejao

Bench:

Dion Waiters
Matthew Dellavedova
Shawn Marion
Tristan Thompson
Brendan Haywood

Again, it's not that I don't believe in Waiters' role as a facilitator. If I didn't, then I wouldn't want him out there at the end of the game. In my opinion it's just overkill to have him out there at the start of the game with Kyrie and LeBron. Let him work with Kyrie on the bench to establish a rhythm for the end of the game. A Delly and Miller/Allen backcourt will not get you quality looks and making Kyrie or Waiters play more minutes than they need to in the 1st quarter is just dumb. Subbing Dion for Kyrie ensures very little offensive drop-off, whereas subbing Delly for Kyrie could be a dramatic one if you have to take out Waiters too because he's gassed.

You think dumb I say myopic to such sentiments in the contrary.

You still don't mention defense and we have different views on Delly, but my views on Delly are justified on the EOY when KI was injured. It will ultimately be interesting to see how Blatt's rotation is set.

But I love your sentiments on OVERKILL as that is exactly what I want with such a deep and offensively versatile bench at our beckon call.

 

[Cavalierfan]

Harris and Powell will be in Canton. Nearly sure of it. They both looks awful in summer league.

Unless they changed the rules, they still count towards your 15 active roster spots. Them being in Canton is the alternative to them sitting in suits on the bench as 'inactive' each game. You have 15 roster spots and dress 12 per game.

 

[Cavsengland]

Wait Bro never said anything about idiotic I was speaking from a tactical sense based on our CAVS roster.

Ray Allen Plus Miller are a wealth of shooting if Jalen Rose's comments on Ray coming to the CAVS.

My sentiment is we run Dion in to the ground with those young legs lol. He looks like he is in spectacular physical condition no?

Plus I love Delly and his bully ball as KI's clear cut choice for back up PG duties. He is just my guy! If you allow Delly min with Ray & Miller we could see his assist numbers on the uptick.

Great thing is there will be many different rotations based on match up I hope.

I want dion starting as well.

I responded to your other post by calling it nonsense Because you said kyrie was "star struck" about lebron coming back. Whereas dion was all hard and tuff.

 

[Jack Brickman]

As for Dion, let's take a look at his closest comparison as far as situations go, James Harden. In 2011-12, it was Harden's 3rd year in the league, same as Waiters this year, and OKC went to the Finals and lost that year to Miami. Harden averaged 16.8 PPG on 49.1% shooting. He only took 10 shots a game and averaged 31 minutes per game in the regular season. Oh and he came off the bench for all but 2 games. Guess who started in his place at the 2 guard? Thabo Sefolosha for 42 games and Daequan Cook.for 22. OKC finished the year 3rd in points per game that year and 2nd in offensive rating. That's with KD at the 3, Westbrook at the point, and Serge Ibaka averaging 9 PPG at the PF spot. Bringing Waiters off the bench would not hurt this team in the least bit, it could only help them.

I think what this overlooks is that Sefolosha started mostly for defensive reasons. He was the lockdown defender on OKC that they could put on the other team's best wing to keep Durant fresh. If you start Miller or Allen, you're basically putting all of the defensive pressure on LeBron, which will wear him down just like it did in Miami last year. Dion is actually a solid defender, has the potential to be a very good one, and can defend three positions. It makes more sense to start him in a line-up with a defensive liability like Kyrie than it does Miller or Allen, neither of whom can defend well at this point in their careers.