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Choo traded for Stubbs, Bauer, Albers and Shaw

Discussion in '(MLB) Cleveland Indians' started by Maximus, Dec 12, 2012.

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Grade the trade...

  1. A

    62 vote(s)
    66.7%
  2. B

    24 vote(s)
    25.8%
  3. C

    4 vote(s)
    4.3%
  4. D

    1 vote(s)
    1.1%
  5. F

    2 vote(s)
    2.2%
  1. Maximus

    Maximus BANNED Staff Member

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    Figure this needs its own thread...


    CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Indians on Tuesday night received four players in a three-team, nine-player trade with Cincinnati and Arizona.

    Here's how the deal breaks down:

    • The Indians received outfielder Drew Stubbs from the Reds and three pitchers from Arizona: right-hander Trevor Bauer, the third pick in the 2011 amateur draft, and relievers Matt Albers and Bryan Shaw.

    • The Reds received Shin-Soo Choo, Jason Donald and $3.5 million from the Indians.

    • Arizona receives shortstop Didi Gregorius from the Reds, and Tony Sipp and Lars Anderson from the Indians. The Diamondbacks preferred Gregorius over Asdrubal Cabrera because they can control him for six years. Cabrera can be a free agent after 2014.

    "We think the four players we've acquired will not only impact the 2013 season at the major-league level, but will impact us for years to come," said GM Chris Antonetti.

    During last week's winter meetings in Nashville, Tenn., the Indians and Diamondbacks discussed various forms of a three and four-team deal. Texas, Seattle, Tampa Bay and Kansas City were involved at one time or another. Tuesday night they got the deal done.

    Bauer, 21, should immediately help the Indians' tattered rotation. He made his big league debut this summer and went 1-2 with a 6.06 ERA in four starts. Bauer started the season in the minors, going 12-2 with a 2.42 ERA in 22 starts at Class AA Mobile and Class AAA Reno.

    There were reports that Arizona's front office grew disenchanted with Bauer because of his unique conditioning and pre-game warmups. Bauer has been known to wear headphones and listen to heavy-metal music on the field for long stretches of time as he throws before games and between appearances. The Diamondbacks had asked him to not wear the headphones on the field. As Bauer said in a story by ESPN:

    "Well, the Diamondbacks asked me not to wear headphones on the field, so I can’t do that anymore. It was kind of a bummer, and in my first couple starts I was having focus problems; I’d lose focus after the second inning and couldn’t really get back in. There was a lot of stuff going on in my head -- day-to-day life type of things, conversations I had had with friends -- because I wasn’t listening to my pregame playlist. So I started to listen to the same playlist an hour before the game. It’s better than nothing."

    The Indians have liked Bauer since he was at UCLA and are familiar with his tendencies.

    "He's a young pitcher with a ton of potential," said Antonetti. "He has a chance to pitch at the top of the rotation. He went through the minors league quickly and still has some developing to do, but we expect him to impact our team in 2013 whether it's at beginning of the season and during it."

    Said Arizona GM Kevin Towers, "If the fastball command is there with the repertoire of pitches that he has, there is no doubt in my mind he is going to be a successful major-league pitcher."

    Drew Stubbs, a solid defensive outfielder, has 110 big-league stolen bases in four seasons with the Reds, but has struck out 588 times in 2,004 at-bats. AP file

    Stubbs, 28, hit .213 (105-for-493) with 13 doubles, two triples, 14 homers and 40 RBI in 136 games last year. He stole 30 bases in 37 attempts and scored 75 runs. He was the Reds' starting center fielder and had a big contact problem, striking out 166 times. Stubbs finished fifth in the National League in strikeouts.

    The Indians reached agreement with Mark Reynolds on Sunday on a one-year $6 million deal. Reynolds struck out 159 times last season with Baltimore to finish seventh in the American League. Stubbs and Reynolds should create quite a breeze at Progressive Field next season.

    Antonetti said he's happy with the play of Michael Brantley in center field, but wouldn't say where Stubbs will play. The Indians have openings in left and right field following Choo's trade.

    "We'll see how the off-season plays out before making a decision," said Antonetti, who is negotiating with free agent outfielder Nick Swisher, among others, to potentially play one of the corner positions.

    Stubbs' best season with the Reds was 2010 when he hit .255 (131-for-583) with 19 doubles, six triples, 22 homers and 77 RBI. He stole 30 bases in 36 attempts. Last season he spent most of his time hitting second.

    The Reds drafted Stubbs, a right-handed hitter, with their first pick in 2006. He's eligible for arbitration this winter, but can't be a free agent until after the 2016 season.

    Albers, 29, split the 2012 season between Boston and Arizona. He was 3-1 with a 2.39 ERA in 63 relief appearances. He posted an 1.80 over his last 11 appearances. Left-handers hit just .207 against him.

    Shaw, 25, spent most of the 2012 season in the Arizona bullpen. He went 1-6 with two saves and a 3.49 ERA in 64 relief appearances.

    "They're two hard throwing relievers who give us depth in the pen," said Antonetti.

    Shaw has been clocked as high as 97 mph, while Albers has topped out at 96 mph.

    Shin-Soo Choo, making sliding catch in right field last season, could be headed to Cincinnati. Kathy Willens, Associated Press

    Choo, 30, can be a free agent after the 2013 season. Scott Boras, Choo's agent, has turned down several contract extension offers over the last few years. The actions convinced the Indians long ago that Choo was headed elsewhere as soon as he filed for free agency.

    The Reds plan to use Choo in the leadoff spot and in center field. Choo hit well in the leadoff spot for the Tribe, but has played little center field in the big leagues.

    Choo hit .282 (169-for-598) with 88 runs, 43 doubles, two triples, 16 homers and 67 RBI last season. As a leadoff hitter, Choo hit .310 (124-for-400) with 33 doubles, 12 homers, 42 RBI and 68 runs in 99 starts.

    In 24 games against the Reds, Choo is hitting .351 (33-for-94) with nine doubles, three triples, seven homers and 16 RBI.

    "It was very tough to trade Choo because of what he's meant on and off the field to this organization," said Antonetti.

    Donald, who played several position for the Indians last season, hit .202 (25-for-124) with two homers and 11 RBI last season. He's 28.

    Sipp, 29, has been a big part of the Indians bullpen for the last four years. The left-hander went 1-2 with a 4.42 ERA in 63 appearances last season. He struck out 51, walked 23, but allowed 27 earned runs on 47 hits in 55 innings.

    The Indians acquired Anderson from Boston last season at the trading deadline. He did not get promoted to the big leagues.

    Gregorius, 22, made his big league debut last season. He hit .300 (6-for-20) with two RBI. He hit a combined .265 (133-for-501) with 21 doubles, 11 triples, seven homers, and 54 RBI at Class AA and Class AAA.

    He played in the Arizona Fall League and drew a lot of interest from Arizona's scouts.

    Gregorius was born in the Netherlands.

    Youk to Yankees: The Indians tried hard to sign Kevin Youkilis, but when talks slowed, they turned to Reynolds to play first base. Youkilis, who played for Tribe manager Terry Francona in Boston, accepted a one-year $12 million deal from the Yankees on Tuesday.
     
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  2. AZ_

    AZ_ Hall-of-Famer

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    It did?
     
  3. Maximus

    Maximus BANNED Staff Member

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    Why wouldn't it?
     
  4. AZ_

    AZ_ Hall-of-Famer

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    There's about 20 pages worth of it in the Indians offseason thread.
     
  5. Huber.

    Huber. Adrninistrator

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    I will grave dig this in 3 years and then give my answer. Grading trades right after they happen is like grading drafts right after it happened.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
  6. "Boobie" Gibson

    "Boobie" Gibson In the Rotation

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    There is always an initial reaction to something that happened.

    It's frustrating to me, reading my Twitter and seeing "fans" reactions to the trade, that "YAY, the Indians got Stubbs!" The trade isn't about him... I particularly don't like him. Reynolds and Stubbs in the same lineup is going to be mighty painful. Stubbs more-so because of his less-than-impressive OBP. I predict a combined 325 K's, ouch.

    Hopefully Bauer pans out. Rough couple starts last year. If he can eventually be a top-2 pitcher for our rotation I'll be happy.

    Plus, it's a bonus to get rid of Sipp :chuckles:
     
  7. Maximus

    Maximus BANNED Staff Member

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    If trading one of our best players for 4 other players isn't worthy of it's own thread in the Indian's section, then i don't know what is. I just figured it would be easier to navigate for those that want to discuss the trade or see what others are thinking...the offseason thread is over 80 pages. It's going to be 100's of pages long by the time the season starts. Not sure how anyone that's just popping in is supposed to follow anything of real significance...like an actual trade.


    Just trying to guage overall opinion on the thing. Everyone has an initial opinion....it's not a test. Feel free to come back in 3 years though.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
  8. pr26

    pr26 NBA Starter

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    As an admittedly casual Indians fan (follow them when they are good, watch them when I workout, generally follow news and standings), this is a great trade imo. Choo was only on for one more year, his agent is Boras, and we had ZERO shot of keeping him. To be able to get a guy with Cy Young potential, and OF who is good defensively and is a candidate for a bounce back year, with years of control is excellent. I thought we'd have to get rid of Asdrubal to get that package.

    We'll see what else the tribe can do this offseason FA wise. I like the direction as of right now, but I'm cautiously optimistic.
     
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  9. The Oi

    The Oi Or Also Schtick

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    Hadn't seen the details that the kid claims he lost focus on the field because he couldn't listen to heavy metal pre-game. Sounds like he's really got the toughness needed to succeed in the big leagues.


    If the Indians had a good track history with prospects acquired via trade and Bauer never made the heavy metal comment, I'd give it a benefit of the doubt B+ because they unloaded Choo and got back a top pitching prospect along with a decent hitter with some experience in the league.

    Because the Indians have a bad track record with trading for prospects, I'll only give them the BOD up to a C+.

    Because the kid made that comment, they get bumped down to a C.

    So I give the trade a C.
     
  10. KCOTT

    KCOTT OSU Alum

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    solid deal, finally have a great pitching prospect again
     
  11. shawnkempjrjrjr

    shawnkempjrjrjr Rookie

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    Miles in hardball wore head phones to pitch.
     
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  12. Pyro

    Pyro Banned

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    Like I said in the other thread, on paper, this trade gets an A. Easily. We'll see how it works out on the field this season.
     
  13. macbdog

    macbdog I just got a semi

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    A toss in to this deal, Lars Anderson, was the guy the Tribe got in return for Stephen Wright back in September. Stephen Wright was a knuckleballer in the Tribe farm system. The rumors going around is that Boston loves him and he has a very good shot at winning a rotation gig with them out of spring training. So there is a possibility the Tribe traded a starter to get a starter, making it Choo for Stubbs. Which is a D trade. So I give it a D.
     
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  14. Amherstcavsfan

    Amherstcavsfan Duh

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    el oh el.
     
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  15. Nom

    Nom Sixth Man

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    Marte, LaPorta and the Lee trade. Those are the bad ones.

    Guys they acquired via trade:

    Asdrubal
    Choo
    Perez
    Masterson
    Santana
    Hafner
    Lee
    Sizemore
    McAllister

    I'm not defending the Lee trade. It was awful. As was the Ubaldo trade.

    But they've hit a lot more than they've missed to have this attitude. Specifically when the guy they are trading was ACQUIRED IN A TRADE.
     
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  16. Huber.

    Huber. Adrninistrator

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    prove it.
     
  17. Nom

    Nom Sixth Man

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    The Indians are so terrible at trades they just turned Ben Broussard into Trevor Bauer while getting Choo's prime in between.
     
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  18. The Oi

    The Oi Or Also Schtick

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    I'd say trading Cliff Lee AND CC Sabathia for essentially nothing ALONE constitutes a bad track record.

    Hafner, Grady and Lee were traded for right around a decade ago. Does the front office get a 10 year benefit of the doubt bump for those? What's the cut off for total amount of years before we're allowed to not trust a front office that hasn't pulled an impact player out of a trade for a decade?

    Hafner, Lee and Grady were obviously part of fantastic trades. But frankly, it's been too long since they happened and there's been so many more misses than hits with player transactions since that time, that I'm gonna need some kind of parameters for when a front office can stop resting on their laurels before I'm allowed to say they suck.

    Masterson, Choo and Asdrubal all fit into the same category...above average guys (most of the time) who nobody would ever dream of calling impact players.

    Santana I'm willing to be optimistic with, especially because they landed him for Casey Blake.

    Other than that...sorry...if they can't pull ANY impact players out of the trades over the last decade, they have a bad track record.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
  19. Nom

    Nom Sixth Man

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    I understand your point that you can't evaluate a trade until you know how each part has turned out - but I think the thought process behind this deal is great.

    Anytime you can acquire a top prospect while not giving up much in assets it is a solid deal, even if that player doesn't pan out. I'd still say the Andy Marte deal was a steal. I'd go so far as to say the Sabathia deal was a good deal at the time. These guys are all widely regarded as top prospects. Sometimes top prospects don't pan out - but I struggle to come down hard on the FO when pretty much everyone in baseball is on the same page about a guy.
     
  20. The Oi

    The Oi Or Also Schtick

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    Trevor Bauer has done less than Broussard at this point. I commend you for being able to get excited about prospects that the Indians trade for, but I'm not there with you. Getting Choo out of Broussard is obviously a win, but again...Choo is nothing special. He's a 6th or 7th hitter if he's on a decent team.
     

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